them 1-1 Us - 10/11/07 - Official match thread (Post-match reaction from p15)

[Guest JamesD]

 

He did more in those 10 minutes than Owen did the entire game.

 

 

 

thats just incorrect. i thought owen looked very good today. great control for his shot on goal, and was never offside in the 20th odd minute. i would have brought martins on earlier, but you cant deny he did well when he had the chance, its just it was obvious he wasn't going to get enough chances to score. viduka imo was very poor today, much worse than owen, and i say this as a big viduka fan.

I imagine he'll play better when our midfield shapes up and learns to pass the ball.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Maybe its to be expected from a derby but that was a pretty poor game and aside from a few exceptions - perhaps the Sunderland centre halves, Jones, and Nzogbia - a shitload of poor performances individually on both sides. (Barton was especially hopeless which delights me no end) You were lucky to get a point. They got a good goal, you got a fluke, they had other chances, you didnt. You looked a poor side really.

 

 

hang on. i've just remembered i watched your game against sunderland, when you were at home were you not, and you were shite

[ShearMagic]

 

He did more in those 10 minutes than Owen did the entire game.

 

 

 

thats just incorrect. i thought owen looked very good today. great control for his shot on goal, and was never offside in the 20th odd minute. i would have brought martins on earlier, but you cant deny he did well when he had the chance, its just it was obvious he wasn't going to get enough chances to score. viduka imo was very poor today, much worse than owen, and i say this as a big viduka fan.

 

I can't agree with this. I've given Owen plenty of chances, and he fails to deliver all of the time. I just don't rate him anymore when he's wearing the black and white shirt.

 

Great control for his shot on goal? If thats the only thing he did that was good all game, he had a poor game.

[Guest mr quimbys beard]

Typical tyne wear derby match, not that much skill but hundred percent commitment, plenty of blood and guts and some dodgy tackles from both sides.

[Baggio]

Pathetic amount of kneejerkers present in this thread. I'm not happy with a lot of Sam's decisions (indeed I'm frankly baffled by a few of them) but I'm not calling for his head 12 games in. If we'd lost all 12 and were rooted at the bottom of the table á la Spurs under Jol then maybe I'd be more on the side of getting rid. See what shape we're in in a few games time. Bolton didn't get in the top 8 4 years in a row through luck.

 

Allardyce is far too negative, he only has himself to blame for feeding the kneejerkers.  How long does it take for the kneejerking to become valid?

Not many people in this thread calling for his head anyway, people have been pointing out his awful tactics and team selection though which they have every right to do.

 

I didn't at any one point say there were many people calling for his head. Still too much that are in my opinion. For the 5th/6th time I'm as aware of his tactics and team selection as anyone else - just because I think it's still too early to get rid doesn't mean I'm oblivious to his many failings.

 

You said pathetic amount of kneejerkers present in this thread, either you mean it's pathetic that so many people want him out (which I can remember being 3 or 4) or you're calling people kneejerkers for something else.

 

As for how he done at Bolton, that counts for nothing if he isn't doing it here.

[Mick]

 

Not much longer, in my opinion. As I've said at least twice in this thread alone a lot of Sam's tactics and general decisions are too disjointed, confusing, and yes, negative. I don't for a minute think we're doing ok but I still think it's too early to be thinking about getting rid. We're still in the top half (for now at least), I only hope Sam can work things out. Changing manager this early on is dangerous territory as it is, especially with so many new players still developing here and settling in. It's not the best time to be a Toon supporter but to say (as someone did) that we were better off under Souness is just wrong in my opinion. On the other hand we're not worlds apart from how we were in those days which is worrying.

 

 

I didn't see the Souness comment but the things which are puzzling me under him are starting to become second nature under Allardyce.  Newcastle under Allardyce are playing exactly the way the Bolton fans who came on here said we'd play and we all told them to piss off because they were talking shite.  I'm not sure if I responded that way to them but I'll offer an apology to them now if I did.

[lovejoy]

i think the late oba sub was due to rozenhal carrying a knock late on, he probs wanted to see if he could run it off before making his change.

 

 

im pretty pleased with a point, an away game and a derby, point isnt bad to stop the rot.

 

 

like many on here though i hope sam finds his best eleven pretty soon, as changing things every game doesnt help anyone.

 

said it before and i'll say it again, we have all of the inconsitencies of mass change, give him time, people calling for him afetr 5 months or so is mornic tbh and its what gives us the bad name that the cockney journo's love to nail us for

[Dr Spectrum]

Maybe its to be expected from a derby but that was a pretty poor game and aside from a few exceptions - perhaps the Sunderland centre halves, Jones, and Nzogbia - a shitload of poor performances individually on both sides. (Barton was especially hopeless which delights me no end) You were lucky to get a point. They got a good goal, you got a fluke, they had other chances, you didnt. You looked a poor side really.

 

 

hang on. i've just remembered i watched your game against sunderland, when you were at home were you not, and you were shite

 

Was that the game where we scored a non flukey goal, and Sunderland didn't get close to a sniff of ours...

[Syrette]

Pathetic amount of kneejerkers present in this thread. I'm not happy with a lot of Sam's decisions (indeed I'm frankly baffled by a few of them) but I'm not calling for his head 12 games in. If we'd lost all 12 and were rooted at the bottom of the table á la Spurs under Jol then maybe I'd be more on the side of getting rid. See what shape we're in in a few games time. Bolton didn't get in the top 8 4 years in a row through luck.

 

Allardyce is far too negative, he only has himself to blame for feeding the kneejerkers.  How long does it take for the kneejerking to become valid?

Not many people in this thread calling for his head anyway, people have been pointing out his awful tactics and team selection though which they have every right to do.

 

I didn't at any one point say there were many people calling for his head. Still too much that are in my opinion. For the 5th/6th time I'm as aware of his tactics and team selection as anyone else - just because I think it's still too early to get rid doesn't mean I'm oblivious to his many failings.

 

You said pathetic amount of kneejerkers present in this thread, either you mean it's pathetic that so many people want him out (which I can remember being 3 or 4) or you're calling people kneejerkers for something else.

 

As for how he done at Bolton, that counts for nothing if he isn't doing it here.

 

More than 3 or 4 from what I saw. A minority but still too many in my opinion. I'll repeat that - in my opinion.

[The Bonk]

 

The save from owen i must have dreamt up then eh?

 

We were piss poor in the first half,slightly better in the second..

 

Ok...apart from that one ..

 

Maybe its to be expected from a derby but that was a pretty poor game and aside from a few exceptions - perhaps the Sunderland centre halves, Jones, and Nzogbia - a shitload of poor performances individually on both sides. (Barton was especially hopeless which delights me no end) You were lucky to get a point. They got a good goal, you got a fluke, they had other chances, you didnt. You looked a poor side really.

 

Agree with most of what you said, we looked decent playing for the tying goal, but nowt much else.  Sam still has my faith, but those tactics were shocking.  I hope he figures this team out sooner rather than later.

 

Also Specky, I seem to recall a certain Derby not too long ago where a team was thoroughly outplayed most of the match yet scrapped a win out due to some lucky bounces and Kasper The Ghost haunting the goal.  Nowt mentioning names, though. 

 

tbf...we weren't playing Sunderland. And we won. So there.

 

Tbf I was expecting a pretty hopeless attacking performance with that midfield but also thought you were suprisingly iffy at the back. Thought Faye was dodgy apart from a few headers. There was one moment when he made a tackle on Chopra as he was running thru in space in the first half, but he was only in space and not miles offside because Faye was 15 yards behind the rest of the defence in dreamworld. Dug himself out of the hole there, poor for the goal too. Also thought Rozenhal was very iffy - for all his comfort on the ball he doesnt seem to know what to do when he's not got it - and i've never been a fan of Taylor. Very shakey performance defensively IMO - don't think Sam is doing himself any favours with all this chopping and changing, seems to be a new back 4 every week and you don't look that hot there. Got some sort of inverse Benitez thing going on at the back there, doesn't know his best back 4? No-one else seems to change their defence so much. And he signed most of em. Very strange.

 

Agreed, I would love it if Sam stuck with a core group of back 4.  Zoggy is not a defensive player and should be in the midfield.  In fairness to Rozy, he's not had a run of games and was thrust into an intense Derby, but he should be better off the ball.  Again, this is probably due to not playing in matches with the same back 4. 

 

Disagree with Faye, though, he was a beast in the CB outside of the goal.  Jones is a tricky player to contain, thought Faye did alright. 

 

You didn't look much better than us beating the Mackems last monday, you did win though.  Lucky Bastid. 

 

 

[Incognito]

Anyone know the words to "The Great Escape"?

 

Yep...de dedede,de de dedede,dede dedede dede.de dedede,de dededede,de de de dede de de.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Maybe its to be expected from a derby but that was a pretty poor game and aside from a few exceptions - perhaps the Sunderland centre halves, Jones, and Nzogbia - a shitload of poor performances individually on both sides. (Barton was especially hopeless which delights me no end) You were lucky to get a point. They got a good goal, you got a fluke, they had other chances, you didnt. You looked a poor side really.

 

 

hang on. i've just remembered i watched your game against sunderland, when you were at home were you not, and you were shite

 

Was that the game where we scored a non flukey goal, and Sunderland didn't get close to a sniff of ours...

 

 

i think it was the game when the comentator (all be it sentanta commentator) said, and i quote "the best chance of the game a header by anthony stokes" when the teams were coming in at HT.

[ShearMagic]

Haha one of my mates actually had a valid point.

 

Maybe Sam Allardyce puts all the people that can play a certain position in a hat, and then just picks them out?

 

[Mick]

 

So do you expect instant success from Sam then?

 

I don't expect instant success from anybody but I'd like to see an improvement.

[Guest JamesD]

said it before and i'll say it again, we have all of the inconsitencies of mass change, give him time, people calling for him afetr 5 months or so is mornic tbh and its what gives us the bad name that the cockney journo's love to nail us for

 

Exactly. All I've been trying to say in this thread.

ok, i get that. But no one has yet to explain why those things excuse abhorent tactics like we saw today.

[thomas]

I can imagine those who are calling for Big Sam's head are far better managers than him and have guided utter s**** into Europe. Nope, thought not. While we continue to give managers 5 months to turn around the club that could have been the next Leeds we will never get anywhere. FFs grab yourself some patience and learn to relax.

We've been patiently waiting to win something for almost 40 years, we've been patiently waiting to win a domestic trophy for more than 50 years and it's getting closer to the 100 year mark since we won a league title, I would think an 80 year wait is quite a while to be able to claim we've been more than patient.

 

not sams fault though is it. we've been waiting to win something under sam for around 4 months. previous history should count for nowt.

Good point.  And what's 2 more years when you've waited 50 already?  Bit academic at that point really. 

 

Of course I'm not guaranteeing Sam will win something, but if he is it was never going to be the first year;  it's going to take time and getting this upset this early on is ludicrous.

 

[Guest optimistic nit]

i also thought faye was very good, and although my memory is hazy, i cant remember what he did wrong for the goal. Taylor was ok as well.

[Syrette]

said it before and i'll say it again, we have all of the inconsitencies of mass change, give him time, people calling for him afetr 5 months or so is mornic tbh and its what gives us the bad name that the cockney journo's love to nail us for

 

Exactly. All I've been trying to say in this thread.

ok, i get that. But no one has yet to explain why those things excuse abhorent tactics like we saw today.

 

I don't think anyone has to. Some of his tactics are shocking, inexcusable.

[Mick]

 

not sams fault though is it. we've been waiting to win something under sam for around 4 months. previous history should count for nowt.

 

I didn't say it was the fault of Allardyce, I made a comment in response to a comment about patience.

[Guest optimistic nit]

 

So do you expect instant success from Sam then?

 

I don't expect instant success from anybody but I'd like to see an improvement.

 

i'm giving sam 2 years, unless we get even worse. if we don't seem to be progressing to a side fit to call itself a PL one in time to reach that date in august 2009 then i'll start to get a bit anxious.

[The Bonk]

said it before and i'll say it again, we have all of the inconsitencies of mass change, give him time, people calling for him afetr 5 months or so is mornic tbh and its what gives us the bad name that the cockney journo's love to nail us for

 

Exactly. All I've been trying to say in this thread.

ok, i get that. But no one has yet to explain why those things excuse abhorent tactics like we saw today.

 

I don't think anyone has to. Some of his tactics are shocking, inexcusable.

 

Wish he'd outline his reasoning behind them post-match.  Might put some perspective on things. 

[NE5]

Shit tatics from Allardyce? Who would of thought.

 

You can't say that!

 

Give him time etc etc. :giggle:

 

glad you think its funny.

 

Anyway, I bet Andy Gray's praise of Smith is pissing you right off   

 

I thought you didn't judge Smith when he played in midfield?

 

Oh, I don't. I already know he's an asset to the club, but thats because I look at away games. Still think your previous remark is funny ?

 

 

[ShearMagic]

i also thought faye was very good, and although my memory is hazy, i cant remember what he did wrong for the goal. Taylor was ok as well.

 

Dwelled on the ball for a little too long and then severely underhit a backpass to Steve Harper, Rozehnal had to cut in before Jones got to it and he is the one that kicked it behind for the corner that they scored from.

 

What do people seriously expect from us this year? To all of a sudden finish top 4?

 

I'd be happy with around 7th, which would require us to get around 60 points. We're about on track at the moment (albeit, we haven't played any of the big 4)

[ElDiablo]

You've got to look at what Sam has done so far in what? 6 months?

 

Sold 2 creative players (Dyer and Solano) and brought in 2 battlers in Smith and Barton (one of whom I'll count as replacement for Parker so fair enough) So that leaves us not only a player short but with basically no creativity in the midfield apart from Zog who he seems to think is better at left back, even when he has Enrique who was a decent signing tbf sitting on the bench.

 

Insists on playing players out of positions, baffling tbh when a hell of a lot of people on here can see what he should be doing and where he's going wrong. I've given him up till now to learn from these mistakes and put players back to where they are effective, yet still, after a poor run of results he still comes up with these strange decisions like playing Barton on the right, Milner on the left blah blah. Just fucking stupidity.

 

Also this long ball shit, we had a period of play today after we scored where we got in and around Sunderland and played the ball on the deck and looked resonably threatening in an attacking sense. But then we still seem to fall back into the long ball up to the knackered Viduka and Owen, and we didn't look like scoring from one of these, most of the time the ball came straight back.

 

I just don't like where we're going at the moment with him and am praying he doesn't turn us into a Bolton like team, we've got players that can produce better than that. If he's to succeed he needs to change some things around and quick, you can be as good as you like with all this behind the scenes shit but if you don't use your players effectively you're buggered. I've said before that he should be given time and I still hope he gets out of this stupid fucking mentality he has, but if he doesn't I don't think he'll last that long no matter what Mort says. Becuase we'll go on drawing games that we should win, losing that we should draw etc.

[Incognito]

Credit to Faye and Smith,our best players today.

Rozenhal,played like an outfield Mike Hooper,gave me the shits every time the ball went near him.I blame him for the goal,why didn't he just slide the ball for a throw in instead of trying to be clever and trying the impossible back pass?

 

Lets be honest,we got out of jail with a spawny goal,and probably didn't deserve a point.But so what,a point awy from home is a good one and result was far more important than performance today.The sack Sam comments are ridiculous to be honest.Give the man time,and i'm sure he'll come good.Lets see who he buys and sells in January to get closer to his team.Some of his signings haven't bedded in to Prem football yet.