Nail your colours to the mast: Sack or No Sack?

[ohmelads]

For fucks sake, what's your beef? "OH MY GOD WE'RE ON A BAD RUN OF FORM, QUICK SACK THE MANGER!" You've got to ask yourself what good will it do? Of course apart from satisfy the boos of a bunch of impatient tools.

 

Of course we're playing piss poor football, but it comes hand in hand with a bad run of results, it's natural. When we were on song at home the football was beginning to look better against the West Ham and co, it works both ways.

 

What doesn't help is impatient fans instantly jumping on the back of the manager as soon as it does go slightly pear-shaped. We need continuity, correct. We need the right manager as well, but how we will we ever know if Big Sam is the the correct choice if we sack him three months into his job, give the man a break, let him have a fair crack at the whip. If results haven't picked up after a couple of seasons then so be it, but how will we ever know if we carry on down this road we've been on far too long as it is...

 

How long is a "fair crack at the whip"? That is the crucial question really. I'd wait until next summer and take stock of where we stand, see whether or not we should put our long term future (and transfer funds) in this man's hands. If we carry on like this then we'd be mad to keep him on beyond next summer IMO. After what Souness and Roeder did here we can't really afford to be giving loads of time and money to the wrong man.

 

I'm just hoping he stops playing clever bugger and puts faith in his players, something he hasn't done so far. They're shuffled every week to try and contain the opposition, they're dropped after one poor game, then played out of position. Is it any wonder they don't look a happy bunch? If he goes back to basics I think we can turn it around, but he seems reluctant to change his philosophy. He's "his own man" and that could turn out to be his biggest weakness.

[Guest topleague]

 

I'd keep him to the end of the season but it is crucial he doesn't blow the transfer kitty in January just to save his own skin.

 

By the way, what is the difference between option 2 and option 3?    Isn't it the same thing said in two different ways?

[Coxaux]

For fucks sake, what's your beef? "OH MY GOD WE'RE ON A BAD RUN OF FORM, QUICK SACK THE MANGER!" You've got to ask yourself what good will it do? Of course apart from satisfy the boos of a bunch of impatient tools.

 

Of course we're playing piss poor football, but it comes hand in hand with a bad run of results, it's natural. When we were on song at home the football was beginning to look better against the West Ham and co, it works both ways.

 

What doesn't help is impatient fans instantly jumping on the back of the manager as soon as it does go slightly pear-shaped. We need continuity, correct. We need the right manager as well, but how we will we ever know if Big Sam is the the correct choice if we sack him three months into his job, give the man a break, let him have a fair crack at the whip. If results haven't picked up after a couple of seasons then so be it, but how will we ever know if we carry on down this road we've been on far too long as it is...

 

I don't think we should have to wait a couple of seasons, if he's not looking like doing anything come May then he should go.

 

Surely it's naive to expect any manager to turn a club in our state, thats been left to rot for so long in a season. What happens if the next manager comes in and can't turn it round in a season do we sack him, then the next and the next? Perhaps the problem is this vicious circle that starts with the fans being far too impatient. It's about time people woke up and realized it isn't our divine right to be finishing a European position and began to accept we may need to endure a couple more seasons of mediocrity before we turn it around...

[Keefaz]

 

I'd keep him to the end of the season but it is crucial he doesn't blow the transfer kitty in January just to save his own skin.

 

By the way, what is the difference between option 2 and option 3?    Isn't it the same thing said in two different ways?

 

One is more sack-centric.

[indi]

For fucks sake, what's your beef? "OH MY GOD WE'RE ON A BAD RUN OF FORM, QUICK SACK THE MANGER!" You've got to ask yourself what good will it do? Of course apart from satisfy the boos of a bunch of impatient tools.

 

Of course we're playing piss poor football, but it comes hand in hand with a bad run of results, it's natural. When we were on song at home the football was beginning to look better against the West Ham and co, it works both ways.

 

What doesn't help is impatient fans instantly jumping on the back of the manager as soon as it does go slightly pear-shaped. We need continuity, correct. We need the right manager as well, but how we will we ever know if Big Sam is the the correct choice if we sack him three months into his job, give the man a break, let him have a fair crack at the whip. If results haven't picked up after a couple of seasons then so be it, but how will we ever know if we carry on down this road we've been on far too long as it is...

 

I don't think we should have to wait a couple of seasons, if he's not looking like doing anything come May then he should go.

 

Surely it's naive to expect any manager to turn a club in our state, thats been left to rot for so long in a season. What happens if the next manager comes in and can't turn it round in a season do we sack him, then the next and the next? Perhaps the problem is this vicious circle that starts with the fans being far too impatient. It's about time people woke up and realized it isn't our divine right to be finishing a European position and began to accept we may need to endure a couple more seasons of mediocrity before we turn it around...

 

This is sense.

[Lazy]

I would like us to stick by him.

[Parky]

For fucks sake, what's your beef? "OH MY GOD WE'RE ON A BAD RUN OF FORM, QUICK SACK THE MANGER!" You've got to ask yourself what good will it do? Of course apart from satisfy the boos of a bunch of impatient tools.

 

Of course we're playing piss poor football, but it comes hand in hand with a bad run of results, it's natural. When we were on song at home the football was beginning to look better against the West Ham and co, it works both ways.

 

What doesn't help is impatient fans instantly jumping on the back of the manager as soon as it does go slightly pear-shaped. We need continuity, correct. We need the right manager as well, but how we will we ever know if Big Sam is the the correct choice if we sack him three months into his job, give the man a break, let him have a fair crack at the whip. If results haven't picked up after a couple of seasons then so be it, but how will we ever know if we carry on down this road we've been on far too long as it is...

 

I don't think we should have to wait a couple of seasons, if he's not looking like doing anything come May then he should go.

 

Surely it's naive to expect any manager to turn a club in our state, thats been left to rot for so long in a season. What happens if the next manager comes in and can't turn it round in a season do we sack him, then the next and the next? Perhaps the problem is this vicious circle that starts with the fans being far too impatient. It's about time people woke up and realized it isn't our divine right to be finishing a European position and began to accept we may need to endure a couple more seasons of mediocrity before we turn it around...

 

Good post but we haven't HAD a good manager now for quite some time. I'll be honest I'm completely bemused by what I'm seeing and what SA is doing....I'm in shock at his bumbling and the passive and lacklustre nature of the team.

[Guest JamesD]

this isn't about our results, more about the fact that I just watched derby county look more of a threat against chelsea than we've looked for a good while now.  I'll state this clearly, my greviances are not based on the results, but rather the way allardyce has gone about team formations, selections, tactics, and the like. These are things which are very basic and any mananger with the slightest degree of compentancy should be getting right, or at least not as horribly wrong. Time will not change that.

[fredbob]

For fucks sake, what's your beef? "OH MY GOD WE'RE ON A BAD RUN OF FORM, QUICK SACK THE MANGER!" You've got to ask yourself what good will it do? Of course apart from satisfy the boos of a bunch of impatient tools.

 

Of course we're playing piss poor football, but it comes hand in hand with a bad run of results, it's natural. When we were on song at home the football was beginning to look better against the West Ham and co, it works both ways.

 

What doesn't help is impatient fans instantly jumping on the back of the manager as soon as it does go slightly pear-shaped. We need continuity, correct. We need the right manager as well, but how we will we ever know if Big Sam is the the correct choice if we sack him three months into his job, give the man a break, let him have a fair crack at the whip. If results haven't picked up after a couple of seasons then so be it, but how will we ever know if we carry on down this road we've been on far too long as it is...

 

I don't think we should have to wait a couple of seasons, if he's not looking like doing anything come May then he should go.

 

Surely it's naive to expect any manager to turn a club in our state, thats been left to rot for so long in a season. What happens if the next manager comes in and can't turn it round in a season do we sack him, then the next and the next? Perhaps the problem is this vicious circle that starts with the fans being far too impatient. It's about time people woke up and realized it isn't our divine right to be finishing a European position and began to accept we may need to endure a couple more seasons of mediocrity before we turn it around...

 

I agree with a lot of things that are being said here, but this quote probably sums up howi feel, we seem to have given our sense of divine right to european qualifications when we havent in fact deserved Euro qualification for 4 years now, in the SBR era whenwe were a good team. Your only as good as ya last season and as it stands although newcastle seems to have a decent squad, the foundations of this club are rotten to the core and its gonna take alot of time and patience for someone to repair the damage that has been caused by the last regime of managers and chairmen.

 

looking from a distance nufc seems to have someting inherently broken....no matter how good a house looks from the outside, its useles if the foundations are made of sand and this is exactly the case. I dont think its exactly unfair to refer to ourselves as a midtable side, we're no more, and if anything less. 4 years is a lot of time to change a club, and in those 4years alot has been changed.  long gone are the days when we had any right to complain about losing to portsmouth, or succumbing to liverpool. We're actually more mediocre than we think we are, and need to be looking at ourselves as a team on par with Middelsboough or Fulham but with ten times the ambitions, the amount of pressure that is put on the manager is riduculous in retrospect to our position as a team, but justified with our ambition.

 

If anyone told me that SA or anyone could fix the roots of nufcs problems in under a season i'd of laughed in their face. Anyone who thinks that they would needs to take a look at themselves. I always had this season as a right off, i actually would wait till the beinginng of next season to judge him.

 

p.s i was actually against the appointment of SA

[ohmelads]

For fucks sake, what's your beef? "OH MY GOD WE'RE ON A BAD RUN OF FORM, QUICK SACK THE MANGER!" You've got to ask yourself what good will it do? Of course apart from satisfy the boos of a bunch of impatient tools.

 

Of course we're playing piss poor football, but it comes hand in hand with a bad run of results, it's natural. When we were on song at home the football was beginning to look better against the West Ham and co, it works both ways.

 

What doesn't help is impatient fans instantly jumping on the back of the manager as soon as it does go slightly pear-shaped. We need continuity, correct. We need the right manager as well, but how we will we ever know if Big Sam is the the correct choice if we sack him three months into his job, give the man a break, let him have a fair crack at the whip. If results haven't picked up after a couple of seasons then so be it, but how will we ever know if we carry on down this road we've been on far too long as it is...

 

I don't think we should have to wait a couple of seasons, if he's not looking like doing anything come May then he should go.

 

Surely it's naive to expect any manager to turn a club in our state, thats been left to rot for so long in a season. What happens if the next manager comes in and can't turn it round in a season do we sack him, then the next and the next? Perhaps the problem is this vicious circle that starts with the fans being far too impatient. It's about time people woke up and realized it isn't our divine right to be finishing a European position and began to accept we may need to endure a couple more seasons of mediocrity before we turn it around...

 

You're discussing scenarios for one action and not the other. You could easily throw some more what if's in there to balance it up. What if we stick by the wrong manager and he blows a large chunk of money before being belatedly sacked, only for another manager to come in and try to pick up the pieces with a limited transfer budget? We did that with Souness, we backed him, gave him another season and loads of money to spend. It was a big mistake. He should have been sacked after finishing 14th and falling out with two of the club's most influential players, but many said what you are saying now and they were wrong.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "turn it around", all I want to see are signs of progress, signs that the we are moving in the right direction. Forget the results, the performances have been absolutely awful, and the negativity of the manager has been something extraordinary. Some of the football we've seen in recent weeks has been as bas as anything we produced under Souness or Roeder and that's a bit worrying, isn't it?

[tmonkey]

Sack him.

 

We're a laughing stock anyway, so what is there to lose, other than a big mouthed manager who looks out of his depth? Noone takes us seriously, sticking with Big Sam for a few seasons wont change that and if in a couple of seasons we have to sack him, the same old lines about our fans being impatient and the Newcastle job being a poisoned chalice will be trotted out by various people in the footballing circle - especially by Big Sam if he fails, who like those before him will no doubt still be using injuries as an excuse.

 

At least this way we'll have something to look forward to, and, given that we now have a billionaire owner, we're more likely this time to get a higher calibre manager who prefers his team to play football instead of longball. Im sure some pretty good managers on the continent would be licking their lips at the combination of a considerably higher salary as well as the promise of large/huge transfer funds and the option to sign big stars.

[ohmelads]

Sack him.

 

We're a laughing stock anyway, so what is there to lose, other than a big mouthed manager who looks out of his depth? Noone takes us seriously, sticking with Big Sam for a few seasons wont change that and if in a couple of seasons we have to sack him, the same old lines about our fans being impatient and the Newcastle job being a poisoned chalice will be trotted out by various people in the footballing circle - especially by Big Sam if he fails, who like those before him will no doubt still be using injuries as an excuse.

 

At least this way we'll have something to look forward to, and, given that we now have a billionaire owner, we're more likely this time to get a higher calibre manager who prefers his team to play football instead of longball. Im sure some pretty good managers on the continent would be licking their lips at the combination of a considerably higher salary as well as the promise of large/huge transfer funds and the option to sign big stars.

 

I think our pulling power will be greatly improved next summer if there is money to spend. When we appointed Allardyce we were skint and most managers would have seen it as a difficult job to take on, so our options were limited. If we can go to some of the top managers in Europe and promise them a big kitty they'll be a lot more inclined to listen.

[Howaythelads]

Someone said... "left to rot for so long." Some are clapping their hands at this being a good comment as though this makes the job especially difficult and is a reason to keep the manager. It isn't. This isn't a good enough reason to support the giving of time to another bumbling lunatic. A manager has to earn time and Allardyce is not doing that due to his own incompetence and fear. The job is too big for this bloke.

 

The signs were clear very early on when Souness was dismantling the club for £50m that he wasn't upto it. I said at roughly this time during Souness's tenure that he shouldn't be given any money during January because he'd ultimately waste it and that's what happened. The same people who are saying give Allardyce time are quite probably the same people who wanted Souness to have millions to build his own team and to be given time. Not having had enough time to completely mess it up was their excuse for the pathetic performances, although back then we performed better than we are right now and how shocking is that? The signs are different but they exist nevertheless.

 

The fact is there is no time. This is the PL and it's too competitive. I'm not talking about the time it may take for someone time to build a team that may challenge near the top, I'm talking about the time it should take for a manager to show he knows what he's doing. Make no mistake, we look like relegation material. The fool doesn't have a clue because the job is too big for him. He's like a frightened rabbit caught in the car headlights. He's too afraid of defeat and that's what will bring him down.

[Mick]

 

Surely it's naive to expect any manager to turn a club in our state, thats been left to rot for so long in a season. What happens if the next manager comes in and can't turn it round in a season do we sack him, then the next and the next? Perhaps the problem is this vicious circle that starts with the fans being far too impatient. It's about time people woke up and realized it isn't our divine right to be finishing a European position and began to accept we may need to endure a couple more seasons of mediocrity before we turn it around...

 

I agree that it would be naive to expect him to turn us around in such a short time, I do expect to see something to suggest that he can change things eventually and I haven't so far.  I think it’s equally naive to think that he’ll suddenly come good next year without showing any sign of it this year.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

Anyone who supports Allardyce should hang their heads in shame.  Do you really want to watch that appalling shyte every week?  I know I don't!!!

 

Allardyce seems to be an advocate of the Ruud Gullit school of tactics, who famously suggested that:

 

"International players should know what to do without the manager having to tell them" or words to that effect.

 

I never thought I would say this as I never supported the Roeder appointment either, but even Roeder got more skill and effort out of the players than Allardyce is doing at present.  If he can't even live up to the Roeder benchmark then it's time he went.  As for giving him time ala the 5 year plan, I am sure Roeder would have eventually got it right if we had given him 5 years.  The point is the fans will be patient providing NUFC are at least serving up a bit of entertainment but to serve up the current dross is unacceptable.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

Allardyce should be sacked immediately for incompetence and Ashley/Mort should get in touch with Mourinho and make him an offer he can't refuse before the FA get him.  If we don't act now the chance to get our first decent manager since Keegan/SBR will be gone for good.

[Decky]

He cant manage in an English club until next season mate.

[bobbydazzla]

why the fuck would a class act like Jose want to take on a shower of shite like NUFC ???

 

get real man, if you genuinely think that he would join us then you've lost your fucking mind.

 

 

[Parky]

Someone said... "left to rot for so long." Some are clapping their hands at this being a good comment as though this makes the job especially difficult and is a reason to keep the manager. It isn't. This isn't a good enough reason to support the giving of time to another bumbling lunatic. A manager has to earn time and Allardyce is not doing that due to his own incompetence and fear. The job is too big for this bloke.

 

The signs were clear very early on when Souness was dismantling the club for £50m that he wasn't upto it. I said at roughly this time during Souness's tenure that he shouldn't be given any money during January because he'd ultimately waste it and that's what happened. The same people who are saying give Allardyce time are quite probably the same people who wanted Souness to have millions to build his own team and to be given time. Not having had enough time to completely mess it up was their excuse for the pathetic performances, although back then we performed better than we are right now and how shocking is that? The signs are different but they exist nevertheless.

 

The fact is there is no time. This is the PL and it's too competitive. I'm not talking about the time it may take for someone time to build a team that may challenge near the top, I'm talking about the time it should take for a manager to show he knows what he's doing. Make no mistake, we look like relegation material. The fool doesn't have a clue because the job is too big for him. He's like a frightened rabbit caught in the car headlights. He's too afraid of defeat and that's what will bring him down.

 

...he's transferring this fear to the players.

[fredbob]

Someone said... "left to rot for so long." Some are clapping their hands at this being a good comment as though this makes the job especially difficult and is a reason to keep the manager. It isn't. This isn't a good enough reason to support the giving of time to another bumbling lunatic. A manager has to earn time and Allardyce is not doing that due to his own incompetence and fear. The job is too big for this bloke.

 

The signs were clear very early on when Souness was dismantling the club for £50m that he wasn't upto it. I said at roughly this time during Souness's tenure that he shouldn't be given any money during January because he'd ultimately waste it and that's what happened. The same people who are saying give Allardyce time are quite probably the same people who wanted Souness to have millions to build his own team and to be given time. Not having had enough time to completely mess it up was their excuse for the pathetic performances, although back then we performed better than we are right now and how shocking is that? The signs are different but they exist nevertheless.

 

The fact is there is no time. This is the PL and it's too competitive. I'm not talking about the time it may take for someone time to build a team that may challenge near the top, I'm talking about the time it should take for a manager to show he knows what he's doing. Make no mistake, we look like relegation material. The fool doesn't have a clue because the job is too big for him. He's like a frightened rabbit caught in the car headlights. He's too afraid of defeat and that's what will bring him down.

 

I think indirectly comparing him to Sounes is a bit naive to be honest, he's ten time the manager Souness was, Sounesas didnt have a single posisitve effect on the squad or even the club as a general, whereas SA has, especially for the club. I do understand when people say that he should go, i was dead against him being appointed because i always believed he would be a manager who could possibly take us to the top 6 and that would be it, there was no way in my eyes that sa would get us into the top4, and that would invariably lead us down the saem route of unreasonable expectations. Whats the point of appointing someone who can only lead you so far? People are using the jan transfer window as a counteracting weight for their arguments for not keeping SA "we shouldnt let him blow millions in the Jan transfer window", well i say the chances of us being able to do that anyway are pretty slim, no one does well in the transfer market in january, its an appaling time to have a transfer window.

 

 

[Parky]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

[indi]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Good point.

[Parky]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Good point.

 

[Mick]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Allardyce thanked Mort for giving him the most money he'd ever had to spend, or words to that effect.

[Parky]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Allardyce thanked Mort for giving him the most money he'd ever had to spend, or words to that effect.

 

What are you saying really?