The point of no return

[The College Dropout]

Has Hughes spent £25million in his whole time at Blackburn?

 

£23.8m.

 

Interesting.

 

And HTT. When comparing starts of a manager you don't just take the WDDWL as a guide as to how well they are doing.

 

You have to compare the form of the team before the manager came in, their position in the league. The teams they've played etc. etc.

 

Gary Megson has had DDDWL in his 5 Prem games. That's pretty shit when you think about it but it's miles better than what they were doing before. They've also faced 2 top 4 teams and beaten one of them. The team also looks a lot better than before he took over.

[Rich]

Has Hughes spent £25million in his whole time at Blackburn?

 

£23.8m.

 

Interesting.

 

And HTT. When comparing starts of a manager you don't just take the WDDWL as a guide as to how well they are doing.

 

You have to compare the form of the team before the manager came in, their position in the league. The teams they've played etc. etc.

 

Gary Megson has had DDDWL in his 5 Prem games. That's pretty shit when you think about it but it's miles better than what they were doing before. They've also faced 2 top 4 teams and beaten one of them. The team also looks a lot better than before he took over.

 

That first bit sounds strangely familiar...

 

And that second bit was probably true after Allardyce's first 5 Prem games 2W, 2D, 1L... which was the best start we'd had to a season for over 5 years.

 

Sort it out, man.

[The College Dropout]

 

 

Redknapp and Hughes seem to be popular names all of a sudden, guess how many points they won in their first 15 league games in charge? 14.

 

 

When did they take over Pompey and Blackburn?

 

Hughes was appointed after the transfer window had closed. Blackburn were lying in the relegation zone when he took over.

 

Harry had about half of his original team at Pompey and took over around Novemberish with his team also in a relegation battle.

 

Sam had a summer to buy his own players, they didn't.

 

Has Hughes spent £25million in his whole time at Blackburn?

 

You're quick to forget just how f****** rotten this club was before Allardyce/Mort/Ashley, which is really disappointing. I'd bet that Allardyce has had to do a hell of a lot more in his brief time here than either Redknapp or Hughes at their respective clubs because of how far behind everything else we were when he took over.

 

Erm... Hughes & Redknapp took over their teams whilst they were within the bottom 3 and the transfer window was closed. Whilst Redknapp had a take-over to look forward to Hughes had no real funds and a pretty shit team. He got them dirty and hard-to-beat. They never had a summer and £25million.

 

I'd say Mort & Ashley taking over has come to the detriment of Big Sam.

[The College Dropout]

Has Hughes spent £25million in his whole time at Blackburn?

 

£23.8m.

 

Interesting.

 

And HTT. When comparing starts of a manager you don't just take the WDDWL as a guide as to how well they are doing.

 

You have to compare the form of the team before the manager came in, their position in the league. The teams they've played etc. etc.

 

Gary Megson has had DDDWL in his 5 Prem games. That's pretty s*** when you think about it but it's miles better than what they were doing before. They've also faced 2 top 4 teams and beaten one of them. The team also looks a lot better than before he took over.

 

That first bit sounds strangely familiar...

 

And that second bit was probably true after Allardyce's first 5 Prem games 2W, 2D, 1L... which was the best start we'd had to a season for over 5 years.

 

Sort it out, man.

 

After the next 10 games we've been left thinking "what the fuck is HE thinking?".

[Guest Knightrider]

 

 

Redknapp and Hughes seem to be popular names all of a sudden, guess how many points they won in their first 15 league games in charge? 14.

 

 

When did they take over Pompey and Blackburn?

 

Hughes was appointed after the transfer window had closed. Blackburn were lying in the relegation zone when he took over.

 

Harry had about half of his original team at Pompey and took over around Novemberish with his team also in a relegation battle.

 

Sam had a summer to buy his own players, they didn't.

 

Has Hughes spent £25million in his whole time at Blackburn?

 

OK Benitez, off the back of winning La Liga and the UEFA Cup he flies into Liverpool who weeks before finished 4th. A club whose defence was recognised as one of the strongest in the Premiership, a club who contained a player like Steven Gerrard. A club were his actual bosses who employed him, were there to see him kick-off the new era. At the 15 game mark, Liverpool stood with 24 points, just 6 more than Allardyce has managed with us.

 

Their record:

 

P: 15; W: 7; D: 3; L: 5

Total League Points: 24

 

Tottenham 1-1 Liverpoo

Liverpool 2-1 Man City

Bolton 1-0 Liverpool

Liverpool 3-0 West Brom

Man Utd 2-1 Liverpool

Liverpool 3-0 Norwich

Chelsea 1-0 Liverpool

Fulham 2-4 Liverpool

Liverpool 2-0 Charlton

Blackburn 2-2 Liverpool

Liverpool 0-1 Birmingham

Liverpool 3-2 C Palace

Middlesbro 2-0 Liverpool

Liverpool 2-1 Arsenal

Aston Villa 1-1 Liverpool

 

Fancy getting beat off Bolton...

 

This kind of start was ironically the beginning for many of their fans to question their new man, I remember his team selections, tactics, the boring football, use of subs, poor performances, losing to the likes of Bolton and much more being hot talking points among Reds as fervently as the same kind of things are being talked about on here regarding Big Sam.

 

Only unlike us Liverpool fans refrained from shouting "you don't know what you're doing", "fuck off back to Spain" and so on at their new man.

 

Given their expectations that season (to challenge for the title), their squad, the position of strength from which Rafa took over from, his reputation and calibre as the best new coach in the game alongside Mourinho, they'd have probably had a good right to shout and moan too.

 

It got a lot worse for Rafa too. He got dumped out of the FA Cup to Burnley's reserves and at one point was on his way out of the Champions League too. Oh and Everton finished above them in the final CL spot.

 

Ouch.

 

Just as well they won in Istanbul then, eh

 

My point: Don't always judge a book by it's cover.

[Guest Knightrider]

Has Hughes spent £25million in his whole time at Blackburn?

 

£23.8m.

 

Interesting.

 

And HTT. When comparing starts of a manager you don't just take the WDDWL as a guide as to how well they are doing.

 

You have to compare the form of the team before the manager came in, their position in the league. The teams they've played etc. etc.

 

Gary Megson has had DDDWL in his 5 Prem games. That's pretty shit when you think about it but it's miles better than what they were doing before. They've also faced 2 top 4 teams and beaten one of them. The team also looks a lot better than before he took over.

 

What do you take me for?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I didn't.

 

I just wanted a general picture.

 

Btw Sven is a fluke, his record is streets ahead of everyone else all things granted, takeovers, poor team, lots of new players, which I guess emphasizes what a great job he's doing.

 

Although to start selling DVDs about...

[The College Dropout]

6 points only puts you slightly behind 4th in the table today. 6 points in the season before Benitez took over for us would mean CL football.

 

He only really had 2 bad results. They also had a spirited victory over Arsenal and progressed in the Champions League.

 

2 years down the line.. the juries still out on Rafa really.

 

Oh yeah.. if Sam won the FA Cup with us, we'd give him a looooong time to get it right.

[Guest Knightrider]

6 points only puts you slightly behind 4th in the table today. 6 points in the season before Benitez took over for us would mean CL football.

 

He only really had 2 bad results. They also had a spirited victory over Arsenal and progressed in the Champions League.

 

2 years down the line.. the juries still out on Rafa really.

 

Oh yeah.. if Sam won the FA Cup with us, we'd give him a looooong time to get it right.

 

They lost to Birmingham at home. I remember watching them a lot that year, they were as bad as we are throughout. I honestly thought they got themselves a complete dud. Mind Istanbul did a lot for him and just goes to show how much fate plays in these things. I'd settle for a shock tomorrow doing similar for wor man.

[The College Dropout]

Has Hughes spent £25million in his whole time at Blackburn?

 

£23.8m.

 

Interesting.

 

And HTT. When comparing starts of a manager you don't just take the WDDWL as a guide as to how well they are doing.

 

You have to compare the form of the team before the manager came in, their position in the league. The teams they've played etc. etc.

 

Gary Megson has had DDDWL in his 5 Prem games. That's pretty s*** when you think about it but it's miles better than what they were doing before. They've also faced 2 top 4 teams and beaten one of them. The team also looks a lot better than before he took over.

 

What do you take me for?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I didn't.

 

I just wanted a general picture.

 

Btw Sven is a fluke, his record is streets ahead of everyone else all things granted, takeovers, poor team, lots of new players, which I guess emphasizes what a great job he's doing.

 

Although to start selling DVDs about...

 

 

lol, I thought about pulling the "What About Sven Card".

 

 

I'm tired. I'm going to see sleep.

[wacko]

...

 

Wake up people. Sam needs at least enough time to see him past a difficult patch which is what this is. Sacking him now could make it a whole lot worse, especially when you look at the list of maybe managers out there. Don't give me your Mourinhos, Cappellos etc.

 

Another popular name is Houllier. Strip away his 5 Cups at Liverpool and guess what LFC fans were pissing and moaning about onb their forums?

 

Playing for draws away from home

Poor performances

Boring football

Weird tactics and systems

Spunking money on the likes of Biscan (our own Smith perhaps?)

Losing to your Derbies.

Falling out with stars like Fowler

Playing one up front

No flair

 

They were glad to get rid.

...

Yeah, after 6 seasons of his five-year plan, when things had been going downhill for a while. Basically, since his illness.

 

Don't forget he took us from entertaining also-rans to 2nd place in the league, a unique (if second-rate) treble, and he had an uncanny knack of beating Man U.

 

Seen from another angle, things started going a bit pear-shaped when he tried to play more attacking football, but he's an older and wiser man now.

 

Houllier's made a few cock-ups, but he's got a lot of winner's medals, too.

...

No-one would last here in current circumstances.

...

Would they ever, though?

 

You just don't have the money to bring in the quality of players you want in the numbers you want. No-one does apart from Chelsea and Real Madrid. And Bayern, now and again. He's got to build a squad and that takes a few seasons. We were all over the place when Rafa arrived, too. But Allardyce, like Rafa, has a decent track record, so you should show a bit more faith and give him time. It's not like you're in danger of relegation.

 

I agree, though, that's it's possible that he completely mis-judged NUFC and thought he could just turn it into big Bolton. He reminds me a lot of Otto Rehhagel, who was brilliant with underdogs but failed miserably at big clubs. That might just be because they look a bit alike, though. Otto Rehhagel has a large head.

[Guest Knightrider]

6 points only puts you slightly behind 4th in the table today

 

And there's that thin line. Beat Derby and Pompey and we'd be top 6, irrespective of performances.

 

On my stat attack I found some other things, our average number of away wins over the last 4 years has been 3, Sir Bobby averaged 5, overall that is our average I think in the Premiership. Last season Spurs won 5 on the road and Liverpool 6.

[Guest Knightrider]

I'm tired. I'm going to see sleep.

 

Pah, amateur.

 

[Teasy]

NEWCASTLE ARE AN AVERAGE CLUB.

 

Our trophy history is average at best yes and it could certainly be argued that our current team is average (below average at the moment with Sam in charge) but the club itself certainly isn't.  Our fan base gives the club a big advantage (if its harnessed of course), something most teams in the Premiership could only dream of.

 

 

 

Redknapp and Hughes seem to be popular names all of a sudden, guess how many points they won in their first 15 league games in charge? 14.

 

 

Which teams did both play in there first 15 games?  Because we've mostly played complete shit so far.

[ohmelads]

I wouldn't say Houllier was at the point of no return, he was becoming increasingly unpopular and their form was decidedly average, but it wasn't a crisis nor an embarrassment by any means. He was moved on for the reasons you listed, some of which were stylistic. "Point of no return" implies you wait until the manager is totally indefensible and the team is in crisis, but plenty of clubs aren't prepared to wait for the inevitable to happen and take pre-emptive action. Liverpool did this with Houllier, you fail to mention that it was the same summer that we um'd and ah'd over Robson's future then waited for the inevitable - your "point of no return" at least in the board's eyes - and sacked him. Of course by then the transfer window had slammed shut, the season was well under way and we were left to take what we could get ... Graeme Souness.

 

In short, Liverpool took pre-emptive action, they could see that things were sliding and moved Houllier on in the summer rather than wait for things to get worse. We could see things were sliding too but we waited for the inevitable and paid the price.

 

Sacking Sam any time soon would be silly, I suspect the vast majority of fans agree on that deep down. But I think the fans are taking a longer-term view than you think. Why else would so many praise the team after a 3-1 defeat? You're pointing at results, but people interested in the long-term of the club look at performances as well. Anyone can fluke a result. They want to see that the new man in charge is moving things forward even if results haven't started arriving yet. And for the most part they've been left very disappointed. Even if results don't improve, the performances should and we saw with the Blackburn game that fans are prepared to wait and put up with poor results if they can see signs we're moving forward. Give the fans a defeat and a brave performance and they can take heart from that, give them a gutless, incompetent disgrace of a show and then have one of your players blame them for it and you will find yourself under pressure.

[Lazy]

If Allardyce gets sacked I'll probably stop watching football. I can't be bothered to try support some other club, I just wouldn't find it interesting - and if Allardyce gets sacked, it will be the final straw for supporting this one. We're only 14 games in, with new a new board (that have no exp in running a football club, but seem to be doing a fantastic job), A new manager, new staff  and new players, and there's already talk of Big Sam getting sacked!

 

I feel like an old man when I read this forum, I'm tired of the knee jerk reactions and stupid, random threads. Fortunately, every now and then, someone will make a refreshing  post like this one (CoachHTT's post in particular), and I feel a little more positive.

 

By the way, I really hope Allardyce doesn't get sacked, I like watching football, most of the time anyway.

[EthiGeordie]

HTT, I really think you can offer us and NUFC something but you are stuborn, You know that and you should work on it as a weakness. You know all Big Sam problems yet you want to justfy he has to stay.

 

You say a lot and make dossier about Hitzfeld yet you say you are not for Mourniho and Capello kind of calls any more. I will say it again only Dalglish was a championship winning manger before he came to NUFC and non of our managers were a title winners. Until we brought back title winner manager we won't be nothing but Amateur.

[Yorkie]

HTT for Chairman!

[EthiGeordie]

If Allardyce gets sacked I'll probably stop watching football. I can't be bothered to try support some other club, I just wouldn't find it interesting - and if Allardyce gets sacked, it will be the final straw for supporting this one. We're only 14 games in, with new a new board (that have no exp in running a football club, but seem to be doing a fantastic job), A new manager, new staff  and new players, and there's already talk of Big Sam getting sacked!

 

I feel like an old man when I read this forum, I'm tired of the knee jerk reactions and stupid, random threads. Fortunately, every now and then, someone will make a refreshing  post like this one (CoachHTT's post in particular), and I feel a little more positive.

 

By the way, I really hope Allardyce doesn't get sacked, I like watching football, most of the time anyway.

 

  No wonder your name Lazy you are real lazy. Football is not a part time time spending machin like xbox or PSP it is our passion and everything so please try to understand the before you open your ....

[Mick]

Chris,

 

Get that on the main site if it's not already on.

[Willow]

CoachHTT to the rescue!!!!!!!!

 

Agreed and even more agreed, front page dat shit!

 

[Shearer9]

Where is all this stat attack coming from Chris?

[Dr Venkman]

totally agree coach, top post, get that printed up in numbers and i'll happily hand it out outside the ground tomorrow night

[Optimistic Nut]

At the time, when we looked like we had little money and Shepherd was boss, Allardyce was the perfect solution. But Man City have proven what can happen when a new owner is willing to let a top-class manager spend big. I reckon Ashley will make large sums available given that he looks like he's becoming one of the fans, and I don't think he, (and I can't blame him), will be overly convinced Allardyce would be the right man to spend his money. He'll want to see good football, good players, can you see that happening any time soon?

[Optimistic Nut]

6 points only puts you slightly behind 4th in the table today

 

And there's that thin line. Beat Derby and Pompey and we'd be top 6, irrespective of performances.

 

On my stat attack I found some other things, our average number of away wins over the last 4 years has been 3, Sir Bobby averaged 5, overall that is our average I think in the Premiership. Last season Spurs won 5 on the road and Liverpool 6.

 

Lose to Everton & Spurs and we'd be bottom 5...

[Optimistic Nut]

Redknapp and Hughes seem to be popular names all of a sudden, guess how many points they won in their first 15 league games in charge? 14.

 

Redknapp had just taken over the mess left by Perrin, Hughes took over an average Blackburn side after the transfer-window had closed. Allardyce had by far the better set of players available, and almost a full summer to get his transfers in.