Yes or No?

[Guest The Libertine]

 

wigan have 8 points from 5 games since bruce took over, a considerable improvement on the last manager.

 

They are still s**** regardless of who the manager is, they were so s**** it's hard to understand how anybody would class them as anything other than s****.

 

im not saying they're great, just that they've improved considerably in the last month. the aforementioned 8 points from 5 proves that. 

[Mick]

 

which game are we talking about here? if its today, then i did. yes, both teams were bad, but we arent as bad as we have been in recent years. watford at the end of last season springs to mind.

 

Give over man, we didn't have a shot worth talking about on goal all day, Titus had a field day as he wasn't under pressure throughout the game, he could have spent the game on his arse and it wouldn't have made it any easier for him.

[La Parka]

currently 9th. not good enough. i want 4th or above. he's had 6 months FFS!!!!1 i won the league on champ man after 4!!!!

 

 

some people really have delusions of grandeur or a severe bout of amnesia.

Sam is good enough and he needs time.

 

I Agree with Both of the above (in bold), TBH!

 

 

The over expectation by our fans is frankly hillarious.

 

We were/are no where near Villa, Blackburn, Everton or Pompy. We are not a top 8 team anymore. We are a mid table team. We need time to build on that.

 

Those expecting anything above 8th this season were dreaming. The club was murdered by two appointments and sackings. Changing again is a bad idea, its hardly brought us on so far..

 

you cant say that on here. we are a top 1 side and we arent performing as such. sack the manager and the rest.

 

good post though.

 

LETS SACK THE MANORGER SO HE KAN SELL EVERYONEZZ AND SIGN MORE s*** BECAUSE ITS ALL WE CAN REALISTICALLY ATTRACT YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

 

I'm not aiming this at anyone but isn't it clear? Where has sacking and resigning a new team got us?

 

 

[Guest The Libertine]

 

which game are we talking about here? if its today, then i did. yes, both teams were bad, but we arent as bad as we have been in recent years. watford at the end of last season springs to mind.

 

Give over man, we didn't have a shot worth talking about on goal all day, Titus had a field day as he wasn't under pressure throughout the game, he could have spent the game on his arse and it wouldn't have made it any easier for him.

 

not see bramble clearing the ball off the line?

 

anyway, is ive said elsewhere, im wrong about everything and everyone else is right. sack him and give the next man 6 months to win us the league.

[Wullie]

 

derby were about half a foot away from beating title chasing liverpool today and wigan scored 5 past blackburn. still though, ignore that.

 

Excellent, Derby drew 2-1 with Liverpool today. 

 

Wigan have averaged a goal a game all season so don't look at one result in isolation, before today they'd won 3 games out of 18 and drawn 4 lost 11.

 

wigan have 8 points from 5 games since bruce took over, a considerable improvement on the last manager.

 

Easy to sit there and say that without watching it isn't it?

 

points-wise, it clearly is. he's doubled their points total in 5 games.

 

You didn't see the game, so what gives you a position to comment? Wigan were absolutely atrocious today, so what Bruce has or hasn't done is pretty irrelevant. Their performance had jack s*** to do with how bad we were. Ditto Derby. Ditto Fulham. Ditto Birmingham. Ditto Derby again.

 

which game are we talking about here? if its today, then i did. yes, both teams were bad, but we arent as bad as we have been in recent years. watford at the end of last season springs to mind.

 

Funny, cos you were posting on here at the time, it wasn't on television, nor, I am reliably informed, was it available on the internet.

 

I know you weren't at the game. I don't wish to do the soopafan thing, but telling people they're fickle and unrealistic when they've paid good money and spent their Boxing Day going to see that is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. I've been to Fulham and Wigan, spent upwards of £200 in the process and seen two of the worst football matches I have ever seen in the past two weeks. Many hundreds of people have done that and also been to sunderland, Derby, Man City, Reading, Blackburn and seen performances just as bad.

 

When the away fans are booing the manager, it's time to listen to them and not people sitting at home with Wigan's points statistics in front of them trying to kid themselves that it's acceptable.

 

Watford ffs. Managerless, last game, with no chance to move a single position up or down and you're comparing that to a game slap-bang in the middle of the season? Have a word.

[Robster]

currently 9th. not good enough. i want 4th or above. he's had 6 months FFS!!!!1 i won the league on champ man after 4!!!!

 

 

some people really have delusions of grandeur or a severe bout of amnesia.

Sam is good enough and he needs time.

 

I Agree with Both of the above (in bold), TBH!

 

 

The over expectation by our fans is frankly hillarious.

 

We were/are no where near Villa, Blackburn, Everton or Pompy. We are not a top 8 team anymore. We are a mid table team. We need time to build on that.

 

Those expecting anything above 8th this season were dreaming. The club was murdered by two appointments and sackings. Changing again is a bad idea, its hardly brought us on so far..

 

you cant say that on here. we are a top 1 side and we arent performing as such. sack the manager and the rest.

 

good post though.

 

LETS SACK THE MANORGER SO HE KAN SELL EVERYONEZZ AND SIGN MORE s*** BECAUSE ITS ALL WE CAN REALISTICALLY ATTRACT YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

 

I'm not aiming this at anyone but isn't it clear? Where has sacking and resigning a new team got us?

 

 

If done correctly, it can work wonders. Most of our Managerial decisions have been poor but John Hall made a decent one in sacking Ardiles and getting Keegan in. It can work if the club think about it properly. I really felt that JH could sense what KK would do and went for it.

 

[fredbob]

currently 9th. not good enough. i want 4th or above. he's had 6 months FFS!!!!1 i won the league on champ man after 4!!!!

 

 

some people really have delusions of grandeur or a severe bout of amnesia.

Sam is good enough and he needs time.

 

I Agree with Both of the above (in bold), TBH!

 

 

The over expectation by our fans is frankly hillarious.

 

We were/are no where near Villa, Blackburn, Everton or Pompy. We are not a top 8 team anymore. We are a mid table team. We need time to build on that.

 

Those expecting anything above 8th this season were dreaming. The club was murdered by two appointments and sackings. Changing again is a bad idea, its hardly brought us on so far..

 

you cant say that on here. we are a top 1 side and we arent performing as such. sack the manager and the rest.

 

good post though.

 

LETS SACK THE MANORGER SO HE KAN SELL EVERYONEZZ AND SIGN MORE s*** BECAUSE ITS ALL WE CAN REALISTICALLY ATTRACT YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

 

I'm not aiming this at anyone but isn't it clear? Where has sacking and resigning a new team got us?

 

 

If done correctly, it can work wonders. Most of our Managerial decisions have been poor but John Hall made a decent one in sacking Ardiles and getting Keegan in. It can work if the club think about it properly. I really felt that JH could sense what KK would do and went for it.

 

 

If certain people see that then i can see this thread going in a completely different direction pretty soon...

[Mick]

 

not see bramble clearing the ball off the line?

 

anyway, is ive said elsewhere, im wrong about everything and everyone else is right. sack him and give the next man 6 months to win us the league.

 

No I didn't see him clear it off the line but I did hear it mentioned somewhere.

 

Who has ever said a manager needs to win the league in 6 months?     Oh, I see, nobody, it's just one of those crazy statements some people come up with to try and make it look as if we're asking too much of a manager to expect to get something against relegation fodder. 

 

 

[Syrette]

Someone put it back on track before it's too late.

[Mick]

I voted, No & he has himself to blame.

[Robster]

currently 9th. not good enough. i want 4th or above. he's had 6 months FFS!!!!1 i won the league on champ man after 4!!!!

 

 

some people really have delusions of grandeur or a severe bout of amnesia.

Sam is good enough and he needs time.

 

I Agree with Both of the above (in bold), TBH!

 

 

The over expectation by our fans is frankly hillarious.

 

We were/are no where near Villa, Blackburn, Everton or Pompy. We are not a top 8 team anymore. We are a mid table team. We need time to build on that.

 

Those expecting anything above 8th this season were dreaming. The club was murdered by two appointments and sackings. Changing again is a bad idea, its hardly brought us on so far..

 

you cant say that on here. we are a top 1 side and we arent performing as such. sack the manager and the rest.

 

good post though.

 

LETS SACK THE MANORGER SO HE KAN SELL EVERYONEZZ AND SIGN MORE s*** BECAUSE ITS ALL WE CAN REALISTICALLY ATTRACT YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

 

I'm not aiming this at anyone but isn't it clear? Where has sacking and resigning a new team got us?

 

 

If done correctly, it can work wonders. Most of our Managerial decisions have been poor but John Hall made a decent one in sacking Ardiles and getting Keegan in. It can work if the club think about it properly. I really felt that JH could sense what KK would do and went for it.

 

 

If certain people see that then i can see this thread going in a completely different direction pretty soon...

 

I just meant that at the time KK was no where to be seen in the football world and that JH must have sat down and really thought about what it would take to get NU back into the top flight.

Massive risk but it suggested that thought had gone into the appointment process. Not may other appointments have suggested such thought however but it shows that it can be a success.

[Guest The Libertine]

 

derby were about half a foot away from beating title chasing liverpool today and wigan scored 5 past blackburn. still though, ignore that.

 

Excellent, Derby drew 2-1 with Liverpool today. 

 

Wigan have averaged a goal a game all season so don't look at one result in isolation, before today they'd won 3 games out of 18 and drawn 4 lost 11.

 

wigan have 8 points from 5 games since bruce took over, a considerable improvement on the last manager.

 

Easy to sit there and say that without watching it isn't it?

 

points-wise, it clearly is. he's doubled their points total in 5 games.

 

You didn't see the game, so what gives you a position to comment? Wigan were absolutely atrocious today, so what Bruce has or hasn't done is pretty irrelevant. Their performance had jack s*** to do with how bad we were. Ditto Derby. Ditto Fulham. Ditto Birmingham. Ditto Derby again.

 

which game are we talking about here? if its today, then i did. yes, both teams were bad, but we arent as bad as we have been in recent years. watford at the end of last season springs to mind.

 

Funny, cos you were posting on here at the time, it wasn't on television, nor, I am reliably informed, was it available on the internet.

 

I know you weren't at the game. I don't wish to do the soopafan thing, but telling people they're fickle and unrealistic when they've paid good money and spent their Boxing Day going to see that is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. I've been to Fulham and Wigan, spent upwards of £200 in the process and seen two of the world football matches I have ever seen in the past two weeks. Many hundreds of people have done that and also been to sunderland, Derby, Man City, Reading, Blackburn and seen performances just as bad.

 

When the away fans are booing the manager, it's time to listen to them and not people sitting at home with Wigan's points statistics in front of them trying to kid themselves that it's acceptable.

 

Watford ffs. Managerless, last game, with no chance to move a single position up or down and you're comparing that to a game slap-bang in the middle of the season? Have a word.

 

it was on, just not the best quality. ive also travelled the country watching us in some dire matches throughout the years (portsmouth away 0-0 and man city last year spring to mind) so i can definitely sympathize with those who went.

 

it just isnt as simple as booing the manager and wanting him sacked. we've done this with every manager since keegan and its got us nowhere. the only manager who was given any reasonable amount of time was robson and he did really well. you really need to remember the state we were in in roeders and souness' final days to know we arent as bad as then.

 

the watford game was the first example i thought of. man city at home last season. we didnt score at home for 3 months. that was worse than this.

[NJS]

Can those whose argument consists of a club being changed from top to bottom and thus a new manager needing time to make any positive difference please explain the difference between us an Man City?

 

 

[Razor]

I don't think its that fact we're coming 9th thats worrying people. I seem to remember a poll a while ago where many people were happy with a top 10 finish.

 

The problem is that if we keep playing as we have in the last few games we're gonna be lucky to get 17th.

[Guest The Libertine]

 

not see bramble clearing the ball off the line?

 

anyway, is ive said elsewhere, im wrong about everything and everyone else is right. sack him and give the next man 6 months to win us the league.

 

No I didn't see him clear it off the line but I did hear it mentioned somewhere.

 

Who has ever said a manager needs to win the league in 6 months?    Oh, I see, nobody, it's just one of those crazy statements some people come up with to try and make it look as if we're asking too much of a manager to expect to get something against relegation fodder. 

 

 

 

its an exaggerated statent based on the very high expectations of the people on here.

[Guest The Libertine]

Can those whose argument consists of a club being changed from top to bottom and thus a new manager needing time to make any positive difference please explain the difference between us an Man City?

 

 

 

a much, much better manager. not sure about the money he's spent, but it's probably quite a lot.

[Shak]

I don't think its that fact we're coming 9th thats worrying people. I seem to remember a poll a while ago where many people were happy with a top 10 finish.

 

The problem is that if we keep playing as we have in the last few games we're gonna be lucky to get 17th.

 

Precisely.

 

We won't go down IMO, but we'll not be far off unless there's a significant increase in the quality of our football.

 

Our fixture list is an absolute bastard from here on in, shocking to think that we've actually been lucky at times this season and we're still in the bottom half despite the easiest fixture list imaginable.

[Robster]

I must admit Libertine, I was in the same camp as you... until last week.

Then sam decides to move Alan Smith back into midfield even though we finally have gotten some decent performances from him whilst in a forward role

 

For that decision, I have changed my mind as it was a decision based on... well i dont think anyone knows what.

 

W got a great result and performance against Arsenal. Why on earth has he tampered with it

[Wullie]

 

derby were about half a foot away from beating title chasing liverpool today and wigan scored 5 past blackburn. still though, ignore that.

 

Excellent, Derby drew 2-1 with Liverpool today. 

 

Wigan have averaged a goal a game all season so don't look at one result in isolation, before today they'd won 3 games out of 18 and drawn 4 lost 11.

 

wigan have 8 points from 5 games since bruce took over, a considerable improvement on the last manager.

 

Easy to sit there and say that without watching it isn't it?

 

points-wise, it clearly is. he's doubled their points total in 5 games.

 

You didn't see the game, so what gives you a position to comment? Wigan were absolutely atrocious today, so what Bruce has or hasn't done is pretty irrelevant. Their performance had jack s*** to do with how bad we were. Ditto Derby. Ditto Fulham. Ditto Birmingham. Ditto Derby again.

 

which game are we talking about here? if its today, then i did. yes, both teams were bad, but we arent as bad as we have been in recent years. watford at the end of last season springs to mind.

 

Funny, cos you were posting on here at the time, it wasn't on television, nor, I am reliably informed, was it available on the internet.

 

I know you weren't at the game. I don't wish to do the soopafan thing, but telling people they're fickle and unrealistic when they've paid good money and spent their Boxing Day going to see that is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. I've been to Fulham and Wigan, spent upwards of £200 in the process and seen two of the world football matches I have ever seen in the past two weeks. Many hundreds of people have done that and also been to sunderland, Derby, Man City, Reading, Blackburn and seen performances just as bad.

 

When the away fans are booing the manager, it's time to listen to them and not people sitting at home with Wigan's points statistics in front of them trying to kid themselves that it's acceptable.

 

Watford ffs. Managerless, last game, with no chance to move a single position up or down and you're comparing that to a game slap-bang in the middle of the season? Have a word.

 

it was on, just not the best quality. ive also travelled the country watching us in some dire matches throughout the years (portsmouth away 0-0 and man city last year spring to mind) so i can definitely sympathize with those who went.

 

it just isnt as simple as booing the manager and wanting him sacked. we've done this with every manager since keegan and its got us nowhere. the only manager who was given any reasonable amount of time was robson and he did really well. you really need to remember the state we were in in roeders and souness' final days to know we arent as bad as then.

 

the watford game was the first example i thought of. man city at home last season. we didnt score at home for 3 months. that was worse than this.

 

So you're saying Roeder and Souness had us in a state, yes? But presumably you'd have kept them on, after all "time = success" in Bizarro World.

 

Bobby Robson had won European trophies and managed Barcelona for God's sake. He didn't just do well because we happened to stick with him for a while. This "time" thing is one of football's most long standing and ludicrous myths.

 

It wasn't worse than this. It might have been just as bad but it wasn't worse. It's all total dross. You could count on one hand the genuine chances we've garnered against Fulham, Wigan, Derby and sunderland - we've scored a total fluke and a penalty. That's not "better" than anything and even if in your opinion, it's better than not scoring at home for three months, it's hardly a gold plated reason to keep him on.

 

I'm not still not sure what the solution is personally, but don't point at Wigan's form under Bruce and try and say they were and are anything other than atrocious.

[Mick]

 

it was on, just not the best quality. ive also travelled the country watching us in some dire matches throughout the years (portsmouth away 0-0 and man city last year spring to mind) so i can definitely sympathize with those who went.

 

it just isnt as simple as booing the manager and wanting him sacked. we've done this with every manager since keegan and its got us nowhere. the only manager who was given any reasonable amount of time was robson and he did really well. you really need to remember the state we were in in roeders and souness' final days to know we arent as bad as then.

 

the watford game was the first example i thought of. man city at home last season. we didnt score at home for 3 months. that was worse than this.

 

Somebody yesterday mentioned a name from the past, Bobby Shinton.  Watching us against Wigan was like watching the team he played in for us, that's worrying.

[NJS]

Can those whose argument consists of a club being changed from top to bottom and thus a new manager needing time to make any positive difference please explain the difference between us an Man City?

 

 

 

a much, much better manager. not sure about the money he's spent, but it's probably quite a lot.

 

Thats the point - we have to settle for the best English manager around (allegedly) and they went out and got someone better - thats the crux.

 

None of us who think Allardyce is wrong would replace him with Redknapp or Hughes - why shouldn't we think of Ericsson's league?

 

 

[Guest The Libertine]

 

derby were about half a foot away from beating title chasing liverpool today and wigan scored 5 past blackburn. still though, ignore that.

 

Excellent, Derby drew 2-1 with Liverpool today. 

 

Wigan have averaged a goal a game all season so don't look at one result in isolation, before today they'd won 3 games out of 18 and drawn 4 lost 11.

 

wigan have 8 points from 5 games since bruce took over, a considerable improvement on the last manager.

 

Easy to sit there and say that without watching it isn't it?

 

points-wise, it clearly is. he's doubled their points total in 5 games.

 

You didn't see the game, so what gives you a position to comment? Wigan were absolutely atrocious today, so what Bruce has or hasn't done is pretty irrelevant. Their performance had jack s*** to do with how bad we were. Ditto Derby. Ditto Fulham. Ditto Birmingham. Ditto Derby again.

 

which game are we talking about here? if its today, then i did. yes, both teams were bad, but we arent as bad as we have been in recent years. watford at the end of last season springs to mind.

 

Funny, cos you were posting on here at the time, it wasn't on television, nor, I am reliably informed, was it available on the internet.

 

I know you weren't at the game. I don't wish to do the soopafan thing, but telling people they're fickle and unrealistic when they've paid good money and spent their Boxing Day going to see that is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. I've been to Fulham and Wigan, spent upwards of £200 in the process and seen two of the world football matches I have ever seen in the past two weeks. Many hundreds of people have done that and also been to sunderland, Derby, Man City, Reading, Blackburn and seen performances just as bad.

 

When the away fans are booing the manager, it's time to listen to them and not people sitting at home with Wigan's points statistics in front of them trying to kid themselves that it's acceptable.

 

Watford ffs. Managerless, last game, with no chance to move a single position up or down and you're comparing that to a game slap-bang in the middle of the season? Have a word.

 

it was on, just not the best quality. ive also travelled the country watching us in some dire matches throughout the years (portsmouth away 0-0 and man city last year spring to mind) so i can definitely sympathize with those who went.

 

it just isnt as simple as booing the manager and wanting him sacked. we've done this with every manager since keegan and its got us nowhere. the only manager who was given any reasonable amount of time was robson and he did really well. you really need to remember the state we were in in roeders and souness' final days to know we arent as bad as then.

 

the watford game was the first example i thought of. man city at home last season. we didnt score at home for 3 months. that was worse than this.

 

So you're saying Roeder and Souness had us in a state, yes? But presumably you'd have kept them on, after all "time = success" in Bizarro World.

 

Bobby Robson had won European trophies and managed Barcelona for God's sake. He didn't just do well because we happened to stick with him for a while. This "time" thing is one of football's most long standing and ludicrous myths.

 

It wasn't worse than this. It might have been just as bad but it wasn't worse. It's all total dross. You could count on one hand the genuine chances we've garnered against Fulham, Wigan, Derby and sunderland - we've scored a total fluke and a penalty. That's not "better" than anything and even if in your opinion, it's better than not scoring at home for three months, it's hardly a gold plated reason to keep him on.

 

I'm not still not sure what the solution is personally, but don't point at Wigan's form under Bruce and try and say they were and are anything other than atrocious.

 

this is the last im saying on all this because its getting into flame wars territory and im looking like a WUM.

 

no, i wouldnt give them two time. souness has done badly/very badly with every club he's managed (bar rangers, not too difficult a job) and roeder was never a long term manager in my mind. sam has done well elsewhere so he deserves a decent chance here.

 

im not saying time = success every time but look at the league table. the most stable and successful clubs keep managers for years, not months. man utd, arsenal, everton, portsmouth and probably blackburn are all tipped to finish above us and have all had managers for a good length of time. bolton were stable and successful (for them) till this season with a long term manager. 7 of the 8 teams below us have had a new manager in recent/very recent times. is all this a coincidence?

 

its generally agreed throughout this forum/newcastle fans that souness was our worst manager in recent years, so im saying this isnt as bad as his final weeks as i was at the man city game and the juxtaposition between the highs of robson and that game was heartbreaking to everyone. regarding roeder, i think everyone had lost confidence in him by the end. blackburn at home or alkmaar away stand out and the mood during and after those 2 games was worse than anything this season. if they're still here, look through the post match threads for them games. the latest poll shows about half the fans want sam to stay, but all the fans wanted roeder out, so we have to be in a better position in that respect now than in april/may.

 

the end.

[Mick]

 

this is the last im saying on all this because its getting into flame wars territory and im looking like a WUM.

 

no, i wouldnt give them two time. souness has done badly/very badly with every club he's managed (bar rangers, not too difficult a job) and roeder was never a long term manager in my mind. sam has done well elsewhere so he deserves a decent chance here.

 

im not saying time = success every time but look at the league table. the most stable and successful clubs keep managers for years, not months. man utd, arsenal, everton, portsmouth and probably blackburn are all tipped to finish above us and have all had managers for a good length of time. bolton were stable and successful (for them) till this season with a long term manager. 7 of the 8 teams below us have had a new manager in recent/very recent times. is all this a coincidence?

 

its generally agreed throughout this forum/newcastle fans that souness was our worst manager in recent years, so im saying this isnt as bad as his final weeks as i was at the man city game and the juxtaposition between the highs of robson and that game was heartbreaking to everyone. regarding roeder, i think everyone had lost confidence in him by the end. blackburn at home or alkmaar away stand out and the mood during and after those 2 games was worse than anything this season. if they're still here, look through the post match threads for them games. the latest poll shows about half the fans want sam to stay, but all the fans wanted roeder out, so we have to be in a better position in that respect now than in april/may.

 

the end.

 

Just a quickie,

 

I doubt anybody is thinking about a flame war so don't worry about that.  Secondly, don't under-estimate how things turned against Allardyce at Wigan, I would say it was a massive move away from him and I'm not sure he'll recover many fans soon, if at all.

[madras]

re libertines success and stability thing.

 

if those managers you quoted had seen no improvement in their teams in half a season they may not have been allowed to stay.

 

there is anargument to be made that success brings stability,not the other way round.

[gonufc]

The Libertine is talking a lot of sense imo. Sam has proven in the past that he is a good manager and he hasn't even had one season here and people are getting on his back! Souness and Roeder didn't deserve time because they shouldn't have gotten the job in the first place.

 

After those two managers we've been left in a pretty bad state. Now we have a good manager and we need to stick with him if we ever want to improve. What will sacking him gain? Absolutely nothing, we'll end up hiring a far worse manager

and the cycle will continue.

 

People have got to be realistic, we're a mid table club and it's not as if we're in a relegation battle at the moment. I know recent results haven't been great but Sam has to be given time to make the squad his own. I'm confident that if we stick with him we will improve and start being european contenders again.