"The Untouchables" (The Players)

[Guest Knightrider]

In Italy when things go wrong on the pitch the fans blame the players and the owners blame the manager.

 

When things go wrong at Newcastle the fans blame the manager. And rightly so as he's responsible for the team in the main.

 

However I am sick and tired of this way and for me I'm going to put a lot of our problems down to the players themselves and blame them for a change.

 

We all know how the manager operates and we all know how he likes to play, well is it too much to ask that our highly paid, experienced, pampered and educated (footballing sense) players to be able to play anything other than 4-4-2, to be able to pass the ball, shoot, dribble and generally work hard for their money to an adequate level? Is it too much to ask them to get to grips with the manager's instructions, especially as most of them are pretty straightforward and simple?

 

For years the players by and large have always gotten off scott free and I think when things don't go to plan a lot of them just shrink into their shells and let the manager take all the responsibility and flack for their performances as a team and as individuals knowing full well they'll still get paid at the end of the week, their jobs are safe and that the fans will still chant their name and clap them off so long as they look to be trying their best and working hard for the fans.

 

Big Sam has worked with all kinds of footballers, from complete sacks of shit to technically world-class players and hasn't had any problems in getting his instructions across and getting them to at least attempt to make a go of what is being asked of them.

 

Here though...

 

Seriously, I know tactics, formations and other things are not helping and that's the manager's remit but does anyone here seriously believe the manager wants the team to not have any shots on goal, or wants them to lose games?

 

Of course he doesn't.

 

Against Derby he was clearly seen to be instructing the players to keep the ball, yelling out to calm things down, to not rush their passes. He may be getting things wrong but he's not a complete simpleton. I mean he has managed in every division and for over 15 years now, he knows what works and what doesn't.

 

After the Wigan debacle he launched a scathing attack on the team which suggest the players didn't do what they were trained to do and while I don't think he should be saying those things in public, he has every damn right to blast them and good on him I say. I like that kind of brutal honesty and he's only saying what I'm saying now.

 

We all know this will probably lose him the dressing room or split it which will no doubt end his time here but if those players had anything about them they'd see his words as a challenge and show some fucking professional pride and go out and fix things not just for their under fire manager but themselves and us the fans who support them in our thousands.

 

Sorry but I'm not buying it, that these players can't play another formation, or that Big Sam is sending them out to not pass the ball, to not shoot at goal, to lose games. Forget his comments about keeping the opposition from playing, that's just a philosophy, he will want to win every game and badly.

 

The players though, I'm not so sure with a few of them. I honestly think some don't really care at the end of the day. Players are not daft either, they will know the manager is under pressure, that we have a billionaire chairman, that fans are giving the manager stick, it's all too easy for them just to sit back and ride it out until he's either sacked or the manager himself finds a winning formula.

 

Well fuck that. While they are out on that pitch I hold them 100% responsible for the following:

 

Commitment

Drive

Hunger

Work-rate

Team play

Passing

Control

Shooting

Dribbling

Performing

 

I can accept a few off days, a few bad days at the office, I can accept poor form, but I won't tolerate blatant passing of the buck, heads down and a lack of fight or downright nothing performances.

 

I didn't watch the match yesterday but the commentator constantly questioned the desire of some players, the work-rate and the motivation. And this was as early as the 10th minute.

 

Anyway if it come to a point of backing the manager or players, I know who I'm siding with. The man who for the past 8 years has had nothing but complete success with Bolton and a whole host of different players from one talent spectrum to another, jumping from formation to formation, instruction to instruction.

 

What has team NUFC achieved in the past few years? Fuck all but misery for us lot.

 

Emre? Never fit.

Duff? Done fuck all for us.

Owen? Doesn't even want to be here.

Ameobi? Fuck all.

Carr? Waste of space.

Harper? Content being number 2.

 

The list goes on.

 

I would love for the club to be brave and stand by the manager for once and let him enforce his rule, philosophies and standards on the club because god knows, we could do with some. The players have ruled for too long. They had a playing hand in Bobby's departure, turned on Souness and took the piss out of Roeder. Even as far back as Gullit.

 

The fact that a manager renowned for his man management and motivational skills has resorted to attacking his own players in public should tell you everything you need to know about those players.

 

They don't want to achieve, well they do, but they want to do it the easy way, their way. They want it on a plate and aren't going to lose sleep if it doesn't happen because they'll still get paid their huge salaries, the fans will still chant their name or clap them and whether a manager stays or goes is irrelevant to them.

 

People are saying this is a big few weeks for the manager, that he must do something drastic to save his job. I see it another way, I see it as a big few week for those wasters and underperformers and if the manager does end up being peddled, I know where my finger will point.

 

I know this will be seen as another Big Sam bum fest by me or me trying to defend the manager against all the odds. But that would be wrong because his tactics, formations and the results and performances are not something I'm particularly happy about, indeed I'm not happy with the manager full stop.

 

But if as he himself says, we have a right to criticise him and demand this and that, he has that same right to do the exact same with his players because they are letting him and us down and themselves.

 

"If the players don't respond to your ideas, you can either change the players or you lose your job"

 

"Never back down to players, get rid of any doubters and stay strong and believe in yourself"

 

Who said those things?

[La Parka]

I skimmed it and I agree with most of what I read.

 

It seems the players take no blame "because Sam signed them".

 

Sam can only motivate so much, in reality its down to the players in the factors you mentioned.

 

I seriously doubt he wants them to fkin hoof it, take no shots, not close down etc..

 

It seems a lot of the players are for the INDIVIDUAL and not for the TEAM.

 

The MINIMAL EFFORT put in by the players is evident in some poor results.

 

[robbo_11]

Great post 

[Unbelievable]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

[sh74]

Allardyce out.

[Guest Knightrider]

I seriously doubt he wants them to fkin hoof it, take no shots, not close down etc..

 

 

If he did, he had a funny way of showing it against Derby. There was one instance of play where Barton just flicked it forward aimlessly and the manager gave him a bolicking for it. Taylor was constantly hoofing it forward and Big Sam was clearly shown demonstrating to keep the ball down, to keep possession. This was with us trailing 2-1.

 

Again a lot of things stem from the manager but these nothing performances, these games without chances, without commitment, without a desire to compete, these complete abortions of football matches, the players themselves need to look at themselves and ask themselves a few questions.

 

I'm just sick of it all, every time we go through a bad spell the players hide, yet when we win a game or two boy are they quick out the traps to fire off this and that cliche and how they would love to win a trophy for the fans. Fuck off.

 

I can count probably two players at this club I like as people and players, players I trust and have faith in - Shay Given and James Milner. The rest I couldn't care a jot about and wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them, no wonder Big Sam is worried about his job being in their hands.

 

That to me just shows what utter waster we have at this club or the level of player we have here. I long for a side I can be proud of, trust and respect.

 

I don't respect any of them except for the two I've mentioned.

 

I respect our manager though and I'll be deeply disappointed if he is to become the next managerial victim here as he's no Souness or Roeder. Like I said if that does happen, I know where my finger will point.

[Guest Knightrider]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

 

I've already blamed the manager for his part in it, can't you read. I've already questioned his tactics, his lineups, playing players out of position and all that crap. Unlike some though I'm not going to keep harping on about it and I'm not going to quite hang the man just yet either, not first without looking at the whole full picture which the players let me remind you are very much a part of and in many ways, the picture.

[Decky]

Allardyce out.

 

:lol:

[Guest Knightrider]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

 

Baffling, what asking a player to play a few yards away from where he usually plays?

 

If Big Sam wants his head checked for playing Martins wide right, Martins wants fucking shot too for not being able to even do the basics. A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's not making things any easier for the players but isn't it also his job to challenge them, to get them to do things they can't do or aren't used to? To improve them?

 

Milner has had no problems playing in a different position so I don't see why Martins shouldn't be able to adjust. In fact I don't want players at my club who can't, players who struggle badly when you ask them to do something different.

 

Fuck them.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Allardyce out.

 

:lol:

 

PMSL 

[Begbie]

I agree with most of what you are saying. But saying that we dont have blamed the players is wrong. Just look at Bramble, Dyer, Robert,  recently Cacapa and even milner , those are just a few players that we have blamed. I think one of our problem is, that we have to get behind the team even more when its going bad, instead of just booing everyone.

 

But at the end of the day, it is the manager who picks the players, buy and sell , pick the tactics etc.  So he is the person to blame, and his job to be questioned first. I like Big Sam, and much of his training methods and stuff, but his tactics are shite, and it seems like he is loosing the dressingroom and the players arent motivated. I would love to move him into becomming the first DOF for us, and get a GREAT manager to take over our team.

[Guest nufc 4 life]

Allardyce out.

 

:lol:

[Taylor Swift]

Spot on HTT. You've been posting some good stuff in the past couple of days.

[Unbelievable]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

And this coming from a poster who prides himself in his knowledge of tactics, training, a holistic approach et cetera.. For the record, I don´t want Allardyce out if that´s what you were thinking. For me one of the most disappointing things about the Allardyce reign is his man management skills, playing players out of position, dropping them after a good performance, constant experimenting with players clearly not up to the tasks and all this to the detriment of the club so far. You claim Allardyce has a right to blame the players like we can but as far as I am concerned he hasn't. They are all in the same team, and I don't see what good his latest comments about not being happy at having his destiny in the hands of some of his players will do. By now you would think Allardyce has had the time to assess each player in the squad and should be able to devise a system that plays to their strengths and minimises their weaknesses, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

[Guest Knightrider]

I agree with most of what you are saying. But saying that we dont have blamed the players is wrong. Just look at Bramble, Dyer, Robert,  recently Cacapa and even milner , those are just a few players that we have blamed. I think one of our problem is, that we have to get behind the team even more when its going bad, instead of just booing everyone.

 

But at the end of the day, it is the manager who picks the players, buy and sell , pick the tactics etc.  So he is the person to blame, and his job to be questioned first. I like Big Sam, and much of his training methods and stuff, but his tactics are shite, and it seems like he is loosing the dressingroom and the players arent motivated. I would love to move him into becomming the first DOF for us, and get a GREAT manager to take over our team.

 

We blame individuals, that will always happen, but we never look at the team as a whole, we never point the finger at them, we always think it must be the manager, it must be him and if we change that manager things will improve. I say change the fucking team, or rather the mentality and culture of it as changing the whole team isn't practical although I'd gladly see the back of most of them.

 

Is he doing anything different to what he's done in the past? I doubt it has changed too much. Are the players? Without a doubt. Ideally there would be a happy medium but with wor players so set in their ways and a stubborn, arrogant know-it-all manager, I can't see that happen. I prefer the manager's mindset though and hope everything sorts itself out.

 

You never know, there might be nowt wrong with either, that this is just teething problems that will disappear after a season of so much change.

 

But will he get the time?

 

I've resigned myself to the probability that he's on his way sooner rather than later.

[Guest Knightrider]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

And this coming from a poster who prides himself in his knowledge of tactics, training, a holistic approach et cetera.. For the record, I don´t want Allardyce out if that´s what you were thinking. For me one of the most disappointing things about the Allardyce reign is his man management skills, playing players out of position, dropping them after a good performance, constant experimenting with players clearly not up to the tasks and all this to the detriment of the club so far. You claim Allardyce has a right to blame the players like we can but as far as I am concerned he hasn't. They are all in the same team, and I don't see what good his latest comments about not being happy at having his destiny in the hands of some of his players will do. By now you would think Allardyce has had the time to assess each player in the squad and should be able to devise a system that plays to their strengths and minimises their weaknesses, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I agree regarding the tactics, lineups and all that but still, the players individually and collectively should still be able to go to Wigan and register a shot at goal or win a corner and generally show more than what they did, no? Sure blame the manager, but I blame the players more. I mean prior to that match on here, everyone was saying how positive a formation it was, how glad they were to see X and X playing and in such positions. Then we go and lose and Big Sam's fucked up aghain. Well maybe it's the players too fucking up.

 

I've been very pleased with the wins we've had so the players and manager can combine to good effect, but they are also combing to ill-effect.

 

Both are to blame really but the players can't be allowed to escape the flack or finger of responsibility.

 

His comments are strange. I thought he's slitting his own wrists there but I back him on this and if our players had anything about them, they'd make the manager eat his words. What he's done isn't as cut and dry as it looks either, lots of managers say similar things in an attempt to motivate and whatnot, Fergie uses that tactic a lot while Mourinho did the same with individuals like Joe Cole. Even Rafa has done it with Gerrard.

 

It's not the best environment to use such tactics I accept but then we are lead to believe this is make or break time for the manager so what does he have to lose...

 

Time will tell. January will be very significant. It's also interesting to see which players are being dropped, not featuring as regular and those who seem the least motivated or prepared to get to grips with things as this may also indicate who is not onside, and those the manager perhaps wants rid of. providing he is allowed to carry out such things.

 

 

 

 

[UV]

This is a wind up isn't it.

[Guest Knightrider]

[Thespence]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

[Guest Knightrider]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

Within the context of games aye, but in general?

 

I mean a lot of fans still think these players are one step away from greatness (i.e. a top manager away) with amazing qualities to offer the team. Hence over expectations and huge hysteria when we lose a game or drop a point.

 

Not all fans of course, but a good chunk of them.

[Cajun]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

They certainly are on the forums:

 

Given = shit, past it, cant save from distance, cant command area

Harper = shit, unambitious, lazy

Rozehnal = shit, weak, caught out too much

Taylor = shit, stupid, slow, wannabe hero

Enrique = spanish flop, shit against Liverpool

Geremi = shit, cant do anything, as bad as Faye (Amady)

Milner = shit, cant cross, slower than my nan, beats a man too many times, misses sitters

Barton = shit, cant pass, gives it away

Butt = shit, past it, can't pass it

Owen = crock, shit

Smith = shit, only knows how to get booked, cant score, awful midfielder

Martins = shit, cant control, thick

Viduka = shit, fat, lazy, crock

Ameobi = shit, cant do anything at all, controls the ball harder than he shoots

 

Probably a summary of comments you will find from some/the majority (for certain players).

[Guest Edd]

Great post CoachHTT.

 

Nobody can deny Sam did a great job at Bolton or that the majority of our current squad have failed to perform under several different managers now so I know where most of the blame lies IMO.  As you say, not all the blame, but the lions share of it.

[Guest Knightrider]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

They certainly are on the forums:

 

Given = shit, past it, cant save from distance, cant command area

Harper = shit, unambitious, lazy

Rozehnal = shit, weak, caught out too much

Taylor = shit, stupid, slow, wannabe hero

Enrique = spanish flop, shit against Liverpool

Geremi = shit, cant do anything, as bad as Faye (Amady)

Milner = shit, cant cross, slower than my nan, beats a man too many times, misses sitters

Barton = shit, cant pass, gives it away

Butt = shit, past it, can't pass it

Owen = crock, shit

Smith = shit, only knows how to get booked, cant score, awful midfielder

Martins = shit, cant control, thick

Viduka = shit, fat, lazy, crock

Ameobi = shit, cant do anything at all, controls the ball harder than he shoots

 

Probably a summary of comments you will find from some/the majority (for certain players).

 

Meanwhile, away from forums...

 

Given = legend

Harper = loyal servant

Rozehnal = undecided

Taylor = Geordie hero

Enrique = undecided

Geremi = neither this or that

Milner = loved

Barton = calls fans vicious and still gets a standing ovation

Butt = reformed hero

Owen = lost cause

Smith = effort is applauded, good squad player

Martins = loved by fans

Viduka = icon in the making

Ameobi = I'll give you that one

 

And importantly, the team?

 

= Good enough for the top 6

[KaKa]

HTT this is a great post.

 

A lot of the players have been awfully dissapointing.

 

Ideally Sam should be given the freedom to build a squad of his own and to get rid of the players who are letting him down. However, it's going to be difficult for this to happen now.

 

Will the owners back Sam's judgement and allow him to rebuild? This will be very difficult but ultimately I think it would probably be the best way to go about things. Even if Sam eventually has to leave, I still feel we need a bit of a clearout personnel wise anyway. Too many players still here who gave up on themselves a long time ago.

[Guest Mantis]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

 

Baffling, what asking a player to play a few yards away from where he usually plays?

 

If Big Sam wants his head checked for playing Martins wide right, Martins wants f****** shot too for not being able to even do the basics. A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's not making things any easier for the players but isn't it also his job to challenge them, to get them to do things they can't do or aren't used to? To improve them?

 

Milner has had no problems playing in a different position so I don't see why Martins shouldn't be able to adjust. In fact I don't want players at my club who can't, players who struggle badly when you ask them to do something different.

 

f*** them.

 

The point is that Managers have never asked the likes of Shearer, Owen, Rooney etc to play wide right, so why is Sam doing it with Oba and why are people surprised he looks out of place.  Dont you think this Owen would be pissed off if he was put out there?

 

One journalist wrote that the players getting off the coach at Wigan looked beat before they even entered the stadium.  That speaks volumes.  Get the square pegs in the square holes and stop f****** about.