Dave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 All of which is true Baggio. I still maintain we needed to buy some defenders in the summer though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 We still needed better personnel back there; the manager is not making it work correctly. It's a matter of priority. We needed more creativity in forward areas far more than we needed new players at the back in the quantity we've since seen arrive. We ended the season with: Bramble (contract expired) Moore (contract expired) Onyewu (loan expired) Bernard (health expired) Leaving us with: Ramage Huntington Babayaro Edgar Taylor Are you seriously suggesting we didn't need to buy defenders in the Summer? No. As I think you know. What I'm on about is the notion by many that all of the problems in the team were at the back, when in fact for a long time now the main problem has been our lack of ability to control football matches, to use the ball properly and to get the opposition on the back foot. Our ability to hurt them in turn influences the opposition game plan from the start. If they know we're shit going forward they're going to throw a lot at us, this of course makes even good defenders look poor. Agreed. I just baulk at the suggestion that only you and few select others know this, and everyone else is stupid. Read my posts earlier, I know full well that we are shite at holding onto the ball etc, and that we perhaps should have bought some better forward players in the Summer. Doesn't change the fact that we still needed defenders. I know you're not keen on Allardyce but I hope if the board plan to stand by him that he targets some of the aforementioned ball-players this time. Didn't say you're stupid or anyone else is stupid. I think you know that too because you know what I'm talking about. There are people who banged on and on and on and on about all the problems being at the back, players like Parker and Emre being so highly rated and all that. It was said then that if they were used correctly all would be well with the addition of better defenders. It was never going to be true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 So do the people urging the club to give Allardyce money have faith in him to turn the club around? Not a huge amount but am going off the principle that if Ashley can afford to pay off debt (that is perfectly acceptable for Arse/Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea to carry in far bigger proportions) then he can afford £20m to give Allardyce a couple of decent attacking players. Do you think Sven would be doing better with our current lot? Or Moyes? I think the squad is a bit shit and most teams above us have one or two key players that make them tick that we dont. Long term its hard to say about Allardyce but i think people have poor judgement about our players if they think we have a Muntari, an Elano or an Arteta. We dont and these players are the ones sticking the points on the board for those teams. Anyone who thinks our players are good enough to challenge the top 6 needs their head looked at. These are same lads who think Milner is decent btw. So you think an under performing manager who's shown no sign of improvement since he's been here and the money he has spent has mostly been wasted should be given £20 million on the basis that the new owner is rich? For me Allardyce isn't good enough and we've seen over the first few months that he isn't up to the job, giving him large amounts of money under these circumstances would be crazy (unless of course you have faith in him to turn it around) and we would be better off saving it for the next manager, whoever he'll be. Why do we need to save money? I thought we were rich? Why not take a gamble, you know you should only gamble if you can afford it and i reckon Ashley can? We're 11th with a shit team. Does that mean you think our squad is better than Pompey's? Or Everton's? Who are these lush players in our sqaud that means Allardyce is under-performing? We're stuck with Allardyce mate, nowt we can do about it now, if we get rid we will put the club back years. Not sure he is the one to take us north of 6th place but i think given time and money he will get us there or thereabouts. quite amazing the lack of people urging us to "splash the cash", when they were out in droves urging the last board to do precisely that whenever we lost a game or two. And we were told all these shit incoming transfers were all the fault of the fat bastard who;s not here anymore too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think the quality of the players is the key issue. You said yourself that given the enormity of the task facing Allardyce last summer that bolstering the squad was about all he could achieve given the time he had. But he spent 6 million on Smith, add a million or two to that and he could have gone for the likes of Elano or Muntari. Players who would not only have improved the squad but would also have improved the first team dramatically. He also set the team out to win against Derby at home and still the players werent good enough (taking into account their honeymoon period obviously ) He went with the same formula he always does. Two defensive midfielders and one not defensive but hardly attacking midfielder. One up front, five in midfield with two breaking from midfield to back up the lone striker. We could also have bought almost anybody instead of 9.5m quid on Luque Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 So do the people urging the club to give Allardyce money have faith in him to turn the club around? Not a huge amount but am going off the principle that if Ashley can afford to pay off debt (that is perfectly acceptable for Arse/Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea to carry in far bigger proportions) then he can afford £20m to give Allardyce a couple of decent attacking players. Do you think Sven would be doing better with our current lot? Or Moyes? I think the squad is a bit shit and most teams above us have one or two key players that make them tick that we dont. Long term its hard to say about Allardyce but i think people have poor judgement about our players if they think we have a Muntari, an Elano or an Arteta. We dont and these players are the ones sticking the points on the board for those teams. Anyone who thinks our players are good enough to challenge the top 6 needs their head looked at. These are same lads who think Milner is decent btw. So you think an under performing manager who's shown no sign of improvement since he's been here and the money he has spent has mostly been wasted should be given £20 million on the basis that the new owner is rich? For me Allardyce isn't good enough and we've seen over the first few months that he isn't up to the job, giving him large amounts of money under these circumstances would be crazy (unless of course you have faith in him to turn it around) and we would be better off saving it for the next manager, whoever he'll be. Why do we need to save money? I thought we were rich? Why not take a gamble, you know you should only gamble if you can afford it and i reckon Ashley can? We're 11th with a shit team. Does that mean you think our squad is better than Pompey's? Or Everton's? Who are these lush players in our sqaud that means Allardyce is under-performing? We're stuck with Allardyce mate, nowt we can do about it now, if we get rid we will put the club back years. Not sure he is the one to take us north of 6th place but i think given time and money he will get us there or thereabouts. quite amazing the lack of people urging us to "splash the cash", when they were out in droves urging the last board to do precisely that whenever we lost a game or two. And we were told all these shit incoming transfers were all the fault of the fat bastard who;s not here anymore too. If you read properly what I've said, you will see I don't agree with throwing money at a manager who doesn't look like he's good enough to turn it around, similar to what I said when Souness was here. Do you think Allardyce can turn it around? If not, why would you want him to have money to spend? Did you take the same stance when it came to backing Souness with money? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TrEe Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 FWIW we bought two strikers with lots of Premier League experience, a midfielder that likes a shot or two and another who looked the epitome of coolness in keeping possession pre-season to go with the four defenders and youngster. As always, Allardyce's problem is that he's not making it work. That is true, but I think now that, looking at our forward players en-bloc, we lack certain types of player. For instance, Viduka has almost zero mobility, Martins can't control possession, Owen has hardly played and even when he does, has always been a player who feeds off his partner. We have no outlet. We have no mobility. We have no desire to create situations, or better still force situations. We have no player to support the front players consistently, the only player with dribbling ability and pace is playing left back most of the time. We almost need a complete overhaul of all our forwards and midfield players now. And the sad thing is, the REALLY sad thing, is that Craig Bellamy supplied almost all of these things we are lacking badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates fuck all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. mackems.gif I think this thread should now be closed and made a sticky after that classic piece of tripe above. were i to play devils advocate and ask what gave it its tripe like qualities, what would your response be? My response would be that if you can't see the obvious for yourself it isn't worth my time explaining. I imagine by now you've read posts from others of the same belief as myself. Ask one of them, they may have more patience with your type than I have. Cheers mate, its a forum, i ask you very nicely to explain your reasoning and you come back with that, you just make yourself look like a dick to be honest, you've got this good cop bad cop split personality in your posting where you try and come across as the voice of reason but with posts like this you reveal yourself to be an extremely arrogant, small minded fool i've been nothing but civil towards you and you continue to say things like you dont have patience with my 'type' and that i'm not capable of discussion, yet with your constant sniping and ignoring direct questions it seems that you're the one incapable of debate i've had enough, get f***** Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliemort Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 AM I being a bit ambitous but could it be....Anelka??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates f*** all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. He's already got his Nolan! And a piss poor one at that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think the quality of the players is the key issue. You said yourself that given the enormity of the task facing Allardyce last summer that bolstering the squad was about all he could achieve given the time he had. But he spent 6 million on Smith, add a million or two to that and he could have gone for the likes of Elano or Muntari. Players who would not only have improved the squad but would also have improved the first team dramatically. He also set the team out to win against Derby at home and still the players werent good enough (taking into account their honeymoon period obviously ) He went with the same formula he always does. Two defensive midfielders and one not defensive but hardly attacking midfielder. One up front, five in midfield with two breaking from midfield to back up the lone striker. We could also have bought almost anybody instead of 9.5m quid on Luque How complete irrelevant and pointless can you get? What does Luque have to do with Allardyce or Smith or giving Allardyce money for an attacking player? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates fuck all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. I would be underwhelmed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates fuck all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. Nolan would cost £7m or so to sign, then wages, to sack Sam would cost about £6-7m (reported) even the fanatic sam backers would be hard pushed to choose what to do there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates fuck all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. I would be hugely disappointed. FYP. It's a load of bollocks anyway. This is speculation on speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates fuck all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. Nolan would cost £7m or so to sign, then wages, to sack Sam would cost about £6-7m (reported) even the fanatic sam backers would be hard pushed to choose what to do there. ...and to top it all a mate of Gerrards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates fuck all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. I would be hugely disappointed. FYP. It's a load of bollocks anyway. This is speculation on speculation. Let's hope you're right Davidos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates f*** all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. I would be hugely disappointed. FYP. It's a load of bollocks anyway. This is speculation on speculation. Let's hope you're right Davidos. Why sell Parker if you're just going to turn around and sign Nolan 4 months later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates f*** all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. I would be hugely disappointed. FYP. It's a load of bollocks anyway. This is speculation on speculation. Let's hope you're right Davidos. Why sell Parker if you're just going to turn around and sign Nolan 4 months later. To replace Barton? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://nufcblog.com/2008/01/04/transfer-news/newcastle-make-new-mystery-transfer-bid/ People seem to think we have bid for Nolan!?!? Give him money! mackems.gif And people wanted a reason to why its a good idea to sack him now!!! The thing is, Nolan's the sort of player you can see him going for isn't it? A midfielder who creates f*** all but gives a 100% and gets stuck in, the people who value a team full of grafters should love this one. I would be hugely disappointed. FYP. It's a load of bollocks anyway. This is speculation on speculation. Let's hope you're right Davidos. Why sell Parker if you're just going to turn around and sign Nolan 4 months later. To replace Barton? True, I suppose he can be forgiven for failing to anticipate Barton throwing himself in jail. Still, would rather have Parker back tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I think the quality of the players is the key issue. You said yourself that given the enormity of the task facing Allardyce last summer that bolstering the squad was about all he could achieve given the time he had. But he spent 6 million on Smith, add a million or two to that and he could have gone for the likes of Elano or Muntari. Players who would not only have improved the squad but would also have improved the first team dramatically. He also set the team out to win against Derby at home and still the players werent good enough (taking into account their honeymoon period obviously ) He went with the same formula he always does. Two defensive midfielders and one not defensive but hardly attacking midfielder. One up front, five in midfield with two breaking from midfield to back up the lone striker. We could also have bought almost anybody instead of 9.5m quid on Luque How complete irrelevant and pointless can you get? What does Luque have to do with Allardyce or Smith or giving Allardyce money for an attacking player? I take it you are forgetting how completely obsessed you were with this complete waste of space ? Which is relevant to your complete lack of judgement, if you really need it to be spelled out for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Sounds like when you tried to rope me into talking about Dyer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Sounds like when you tried to rope me into talking about Dyer. In all seriousness. I fail to see why people kick up such a fuss, and have it in for people who have ambition for the football club and are prepared to show it. [i'm talking about the board, in case you don't realise] However, Dire was a talented player. I was watching his early few years a few days ago on video, and a Birmingham supporter who I knew at the time we bought him assured me that he would play for England and be a good player, sprung to mind. Fact is though, he failed to fulfull it due to a shit attitude, injury problems, and in the end, the club are better off without him because there was basically no way back for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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