Villa favourites in race to recruit troubled Martins

[matta]

trade with carew or agbonlahor.

 

 

both suits us better.

 

Carew used to it from city and from playing with Norway

 

Aston Villa City?

 

obviously i meant villa

[Parky]

He'd do well at Villa with their counter attacking football.

 

Aye.

 

Take the money get Anelka. Simple.

 

Next.

[Cronky]

Sell, if we can get a decent replacement. If this is true, I think those other clubs are over-estimating Martins' ability.

 

and the decent replacement would be....?

 

Please, no one say Anelka. You might as well say Ronaldhino.

 

 

 

I wasn't thinking of a player in that kind of price bracket. I just don't rate Martins that highly. I'd like us to sign a busy, quick player in the Beardsley / Bellamy mould who can make things happen for us. I like the look of Arshavin, as an example.

 

If City were to offer us £8 million plus Vassell, I'd take it. He's not the most skilful, but his technique is better than Martins, he's quick and he puts in a lot of hard, intelligent work for his team. He's underrated and he'd be a good option to have in our position, even if he wouldn't be a long-term first team regular.

[Rich]

He'd do well at Villa with their counter attacking football.

 

Aye.

 

Take the money get Anelka. Simple.

 

Next.

 

Diouf is surely more likely.

[Parky]

He'd do well at Villa with their counter attacking football.

 

Aye.

 

Take the money get Anelka. Simple.

 

Next.

 

Diouf is surely more likely.

 

I'd be happy with either. Haven't we done this one before Rich? 

[Rich]

He'd do well at Villa with their counter attacking football.

 

Aye.

 

Take the money get Anelka. Simple.

 

Next.

 

Diouf is surely more likely.

 

I'd be happy with either. Haven't we done this one before Rich? 

 

Can't remember! Brain is a bit fuzzy after last night. Anelka just seems a mite unrealistic to me, especially at this point in time (no matter how much I'd want him here), but if he leaves for Chelsea then I can't see Diouf being happy to stay at Bolton. But then, would we go in for a player of his reputation after the recent Barton stuff?

 

Who knows? More to the point: who cares?

 

EDIT: Just seen Bolton have dropped Anelka from their squad today altogether to pave the way for his move to Chelsea. Diouf is DEFINITELY more likely now, despite the reputation stuff.

[TRon]

Sell, if we can get a decent replacement. If this is true, I think those other clubs are over-estimating Martins' ability.

 

and the decent replacement would be....?

 

Please, no one say Anelka. You might as well say Ronaldhino.

 

 

 

I wasn't thinking of a player in that kind of price bracket. I just don't rate Martins that highly. I'd like us to sign a busy, quick player in the Beardsley / Bellamy mould who can make things happen for us. I like the look of Arshavin, as an example.

 

If City were to offer us £8 million plus Vassell, I'd take it. He's not the most skilful, but his technique is better than Martins, he's quick and he puts in a lot of hard, intelligent work for his team. He's underrated and he'd be a good option to have in our position, even if he wouldn't be a long-term first team regular.

 

Isn't Arshavin a midfielder? Interesting idea though.

 

I'd rather have Martins than Vassell myself. We already have Smith to do what Vassell does, i.e., work hard and get no goals.

 

 

[Keefaz]

Basically, all of our strikers need replaced for one reason or another. If we can get suitable replacements for them, flog the lot.

[Dokko]

I love it how this forum will jump on a player for putting in a few bad performances and shout get rid, even though that player last season was the reason were still playing Premiership football due to his goals, yet want to give the manager time, the same manager who benches him over an over rated crock, then plays him out of position and or doesn't play to the players strengths.

 

Fickle if you want rid of the manager.

 

Super fan if you want rid of a player the manager is ruining.

 

Classic N-O logic.

[Rich]

Basically, all of our strikers need replaced for one reason or another. If we can get suitable replacements for them, flog the lot.

 

I could say that about the vast majority of the squad, in fairness, but it's never going to happen and I can't help but feel we've got unrealistic expectations of the types of players who should be currently playing for us.

[Rich]

Sell, if we can get a decent replacement. If this is true, I think those other clubs are over-estimating Martins' ability.

 

and the decent replacement would be....?

 

Please, no one say Anelka. You might as well say Ronaldhino.

 

 

 

I wasn't thinking of a player in that kind of price bracket. I just don't rate Martins that highly. I'd like us to sign a busy, quick player in the Beardsley / Bellamy mould who can make things happen for us. I like the look of Arshavin, as an example.

 

If City were to offer us £8 million plus Vassell, I'd take it. He's not the most skilful, but his technique is better than Martins, he's quick and he puts in a lot of hard, intelligent work for his team. He's underrated and he'd be a good option to have in our position, even if he wouldn't be a long-term first team regular.

 

Isn't Arshavin a midfielder? Interesting idea though.

 

I'd rather have Martins than Vassell myself. We already have Smith to do what Vassell does, i.e., work hard and get no goals.

 

 

He's fairly versatile, can play out wide, as an attacking midfielder, off the striker or as the striker.

[Rich]

I love it how this forum will jump on a player for putting in a few bad performances and shout get rid, even though that player last season was the reason were still playing Premiership football due to his goals, yet want to give the manager time, the same manager who benches him over an over rated crock, then plays him out of position and or doesn't play to the players strengths.

 

Fickle if you want rid of the manager.

 

Super fan if you want rid of a player the manager is ruining.

 

Classic N-O logic.

 

If you take the time to read most of the sensible arguments about Martins, you'll see that the judgements are more based on his glaring weaknesses as a footballer (which haven't improved one iota since he joined) than his recent form. His only answer is to score goals, of course, which he hasn't been doing recently.

 

I do understand what your general point is, but it doesn't necessarily apply in this case because a lot of people have been saying the same about him since last season.

 

Like I've just posted though, if this forum had their way then I'm not sure we'd have a manager, an owner, a chairman, any staff, a single player in the first team, reserves or academy, a tea lady, a box office, etc. Nobody is good enough.

 

If Martins did go, then this place could become very Bellamy-esque, unless Allardyce bought a quality replacement.

[KaKa]

I would be very worried if he went to Villa.

 

Martins isn't perfect but with service from the likes of Young and Barry as well as having Carew to do all the dirty work ... well, I think Martins would be a lot more comfortable and therefore dangerous.

 

Young, Barry, Reo-Coker, Agbonlahor in midfield, with Carew and Martins up top. That wouldn't be fun for any defence.

[Dokko]

I love it how this forum will jump on a player for putting in a few bad performances and shout get rid, even though that player last season was the reason were still playing Premiership football due to his goals, yet want to give the manager time, the same manager who benches him over an over rated crock, then plays him out of position and or doesn't play to the players strengths.

 

Fickle if you want rid of the manager.

 

Super fan if you want rid of a player the manager is ruining.

 

Classic N-O logic.

 

If you take the time to read most of the sensible arguments about Martins, you'll see that the judgements are more based on his glaring weaknesses as a footballer (which haven't improved one iota since he joined) than his recent form. His only answer is to score goals, of course, which he hasn't been doing recently.

 

I do understand what your general point is, but it doesn't necessarily apply in this case because a lot of people have been saying the same about him since last season.

 

Like I've just posted though, if this forum had their way then I'm not sure we'd have a manager, an owner, a chairman, any staff, a single player in the first team, reserves or academy, a tea lady, a box office, etc. Nobody is good enough.

 

If Martins did go, then this place could become very Bellamy-esque, unless Allardyce bought a quality replacement.

 

He's had two very shite managers coaching him, neither with any idea of attacking football nevermind translating that into training methods and ways to help improve his game. We've next to no coaches at the club, none of them with any attacking experience. He needs to be taught the finder points of the game, but what he's getting is basic lessons in fuk all.

 

Yet in all that he's stil managed to score goals when starting, and looks a better player when he's had a run in the team.

 

Send him to Arsenal, see what happens with him there.

 

Maybe people are right, sell him so he can save his career, lets not ruin another player with obvious talent.

 

 

[furney89]

ffs, why do people defend martins and give some bullshit excuse for a player with no football intelligence,

 

all this "give him a manager who plays X way" or whatever doesnt wash with me

 

end of the day, just because he isnt playing slightly higher up the pitch and is a couple of feet to the left or right DOESNT excuse him from sloppy play, no effot, awful first touch, no awarness, poor passing, he cant even stay onside sometimes when he played right up at the top

 

HE CANT HIT A BARN DOOR

 

he needs 3 or 4 good chances a game to score, its not good enough for a main striker

 

i just laugh at all these people saying its allardyce, or when they say hes a "world class player" when hes no where close to players like henry etc

 

 

[Rich]

I do still think he could prosper elsewhere (but who wouldn't look better playing for Arsenal, really?), which as you say (albeit sarcastically), could be as good a reason as any to cash in. If he's never going to be favoured here, or do the business here, then what's the point in hanging on hoping it all works itself out?

 

In fairness to the lad, he's never hid, he's been constantly available for selection, he looks like he wants to play for the shirt. He has a lot of admirable qualities about him, but you can't deny that he's probably the most frustrating player we've had on our books, which a lot of people just simply will not look past.

 

He's not innocent in the whole thing though, let's not pretend that he is, because for a professional footballer who is earning a mint, he doesn't half lack some of the necessary technical basics to ever really be a top-class striker. Like HTT has argued elsewhere, this could be more mental than anything, because there has been the odd game where he's done a lot of what he usually does badly very well (holding the ball up, playing good passes, chasing down markers.)

[Keefaz]

Basically, all of our strikers need replaced for one reason or another. If we can get suitable replacements for them, flog the lot.

 

I could say that about the vast majority of the squad, in fairness, but it's never going to happen and I can't help but feel we've got unrealistic expectations of the types of players who should be currently playing for us.

 

Well, precisely. Do you think we can get better than Martins, Owen and Viduka? Probably not, in all honesty.

[GM]

Basically, all of our strikers need replaced for one reason or another. If we can get suitable replacements for them, flog the lot.

 

I could say that about the vast majority of the squad, in fairness, but it's never going to happen and I can't help but feel we've got unrealistic expectations of the types of players who should be currently playing for us.

 

Well, precisely. Do you think we can get better than Martins, Owen and Viduka? Probably not, in all honesty.

 

Well I believe we can certainly expect better levels of fitness, technique and effort from our strikers.

[Dokko]

I do still think he could prosper elsewhere (but who wouldn't look better playing for Arsenal, really?), which as you say (albeit sarcastically), could be as good a reason as any to cash in. If he's never going to be favoured here, or do the business here, then what's the point in hanging on hoping it all works itself out?

 

In fairness to the lad, he's never hid, he's been constantly available for selection, he looks like he wants to play for the shirt. He has a lot of admirable qualities about him, but you can't deny that he's probably the most frustrating player we've had on our books, which a lot of people just simply will not look past.

 

He's not innocent in the whole thing though, let's not pretend that he is, because for a professional footballer who is earning a mint, he doesn't half lack some of the necessary technical basics to ever really be a top-class striker. Like HTT has argued elsewhere, this could be more mental than anything, because there has been the odd game where he's done a lot of what he usually does badly very well (holding the ball up, playing good passes, chasing down markers.)

 

He has holes in his education, he certainly wasn't the finished article when he came here, but really we've done him no favours. He's a confidence player, its easy to say but he really is. There's no confidence in the team, in the manager, in the formation, so how is he going to shine in that? He's a young lad who isn't ready to carry a club of this size on his shoulders, he should be the one sparking games, providing the magic moments not doing the bread and butter points scoring. We've got no one doing that, but that doesn't mean its his fault or he's a bad player. Put him in a team with a settled formation, a settled squad and a purpose, then he can bring to the table what he's good at. At the moment he doesn't know where he's at, and that is not his fault. Even if City bought him he'd be magic, if we swapped him with Elano i reckon due to the mess the club is in we'd make the guy look below average and people would be picking up on the bad points of his game and not looking at the good as the good wouldn't shine through as much here as it does at City.

[KaKa]

The truth about Martins is that he is not a player you want to play the majority of your football through. He can't be the main guy you rely upon.

 

Ideally you want a target man who can hold the ball up, bring others into play and also score a decent amount of goals too; as well as a midfield that is very capable of playing good posession football, passing the ball around and getting balls into the box from the wing.

 

With these pieces in place Martins can then be appreciated for his random brilliance, as it no longer becomes make or break for the team. I think he also inevitably plays better when it isn't all on him to do win every game.

 

Aston Villa, Man City and Tottenham have the necessary pieces to get the best out of him. I hope if he does leave that he goes abroad.

[Rich]

Basically, all of our strikers need replaced for one reason or another. If we can get suitable replacements for them, flog the lot.

 

I could say that about the vast majority of the squad, in fairness, but it's never going to happen and I can't help but feel we've got unrealistic expectations of the types of players who should be currently playing for us.

 

Well, precisely. Do you think we can get better than Martins, Owen and Viduka? Probably not, in all honesty.

 

Agree with you there Boss, and that's my main worry. I don't like much of our squad, I don't particularly rate much of our squad, but I'm not sure we could do much better than a lot of them at the current point in time.

 

It's the Viduka slagging after the Man City game that has woken me up to this more than anything, because I thought he was at the heart of most of the "good" we did in open play, especially in the first half, something which showed up even more on Football First. Yet because he isn't a "complete" striker with pace or a Bellamy-esque workrate, he's getting slagged to high heaven, even though he tracked back more than Shearer ever did on Wednesday night.

[Guest K9]

Hope we sell him, if we get 13m for him then WOW

[Dave]

The future at Newcastle United of Obafemi Martins is once more in doubt with two Premier League clubs – Manchester City and Aston Villa – having this week made formal inquiries about the 23-year-old Nigeria striker who has endured a troubled season under manager Sam Allardyce.

 

Tottenham Hotspur and Portsmouth are also monitoring the situation.

 

A stumbling block may be the price, because the £13m release clause in Martins' contract, the existence of which The Independent revealed last summer, has still not been removed, although negotiations have taken place with Newcastle, who appear to want to keep him. Villa are thought to be the only club prepared to meet that valuation, although it is understood that Martins would prefer a move to City.

 

Newcastle were holding talks yesterday to decide what to do about Martins and it will be interesting to see if he features in tomorrow's FA Cup tie away to Stoke City, which would lessen the likelihood of him being transferred. Nigeria coach Berti Vogts has said that Martins can delay meeting up with the rest of the squad for the African Cup of Nations until after next week's league game against Manchester United.

 

Martins arrived at St James's Park in August 2006, in a £10m move from Internazionale, and is understood to have grown increasingly frustrated under Allardyce and disillusioned by his tactics.

 

Martins scored 17 goals last season, including 11 in the Premier League, and is Newcastle's top-scorer with six goals so far in this campaign. He reacted angrily to being substituted during the recent away defeat to Chelsea, refusing even to acknowledge Allardyce's out-stretched hand.

 

Arsenal expressed an interest in Martins last summer, which is believed to have unsettled him, but did not follow it up and are no longer interested.

 

Villa have shown the firmest interest. Manager Martin O'Neill has made recruiting a striker his priority, and initially hoped to sign Liverpool's Peter Crouch, a move that now appears unlikely. Villa are also interested in Loris Arnaud, a 20-year-old with Paris St-Germain, who is out-of-contract at the end of the season.

 

Portsmouth want Martins but not at £13m. They see him as a replacement for John Utaka, likely to leave Fratton Park at the end of the season.

 

Spurs' interest would certainly suggest that they are willing to off-load one – or both – of Jermain Defoe and Darren Bent. Spurs want to play Martins as a central striker, his preferred role. It is understood that Bent, in particular, is not in head coach Juande Ramos's plans. The chances of Spurs recouping the £16.5m they committed to buying Bent are slim. Defoe is stalling on a new contract.

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/premier-league/article3310047.ece

 

 

The words in bold need more http://www.heinz.com/images/HP-Sauce-products.jpg.

 

English football journalism is a joke.  Why are they allowed to continue "reporting" as if every manufactured piece of tabloid bullshit is Watergate?  If you have a story, tell me who said it or tell me why I should believe you.  Fucks sake, do these people go to school? 

 

I don't care if he ends up at Villa tomorrow morning.  As the story stands, it is pathetic journalism.

 

Amen.

[NUFC06]

I do still think he could prosper elsewhere (but who wouldn't look better playing for Arsenal, really?), which as you say (albeit sarcastically), could be as good a reason as any to cash in. If he's never going to be favoured here, or do the business here, then what's the point in hanging on hoping it all works itself out?

 

In fairness to the lad, he's never hid, he's been constantly available for selection, he looks like he wants to play for the shirt. He has a lot of admirable qualities about him, but you can't deny that he's probably the most frustrating player we've had on our books, which a lot of people just simply will not look past.

 

He's not innocent in the whole thing though, let's not pretend that he is, because for a professional footballer who is earning a mint, he doesn't half lack some of the necessary technical basics to ever really be a top-class striker. Like HTT has argued elsewhere, this could be more mental than anything, because there has been the odd game where he's done a lot of what he usually does badly very well (holding the ball up, playing good passes, chasing down markers.)

 

He has holes in his education, he certainly wasn't the finished article when he came here, but really we've done him no favours. He's a confidence player, its easy to say but he really is. There's no confidence in the team, in the manager, in the formation, so how is he going to shine in that? He's a young lad who isn't ready to carry a club of this size on his shoulders, he should be the one sparking games, providing the magic moments not doing the bread and butter points scoring. We've got no one doing that, but that doesn't mean its his fault or he's a bad player. Put him in a team with a settled formation, a settled squad and a purpose, then he can bring to the table what he's good at. At the moment he doesn't know where he's at, and that is not his fault. Even if City bought him he'd be magic, if we swapped him with Elano i reckon due to the mess the club is in we'd make the guy look below average and people would be picking up on the bad points of his game and not looking at the good as the good wouldn't shine through as much here as it does at City.

 

Completely agree with this post and your previous posts about Martins

I also think that if Martins was playing alongside Shearer when SBR was manager he would have been phenomenal.Back then we were playing good atacking football.Our team was solid and our manager was top class and most of our players were in top form.Now our team is a mess and none of our players cant show what they are cabaple of...

I think alot of people forger last season when Martins was probably the only sparkling thing in our miserable season

What about his goal against Tottenham?

How many strikers in the Premiership can score that kind of goal?

Not many.

I think it will be huge mistake if we sell Martins...

 

If someone offers 13m for Owen i'll take it but not Martins.

[Guest sittingontheball]

If he's so bad, it makes you wonder why SGE and MON want him. Allegedly that is. Oh and Wenger too.

 

He's frustrating as hell for sure, but there is definitely something there, for all the terrible first touches.  Drumming something into him to get the most of his talent seems like a more worthy pursuit than trying to keep a certain other player on the straight and narrow.