We'll need to spend close to £100m between now and the end of the summer 2008..

[KaKa]

We need to do a better job of scouting as a club and bring in players in the £6 - £10 million range who still have the potential to become better, and more expensive should we choose to sell and make a profit.

 

For example Elano, Adebayor and Berbatov, who were bought for £8 million, £6 million and £10 million respectively, but how much would they fetch in the market now?

 

I don't think we have to go as far as buying players who cost £15 - £25 million each.

 

Behave yourself Parky.

 

So other more appealing clubs are going to step aside?

 

 

 

 

Most players in this range aren't seen to be the finished article for the most part, and therefore aren't pursued by a lot of other clubs. There is still a bit of a question mark with them for various reasons, for example being in smaller leagues.

 

How many people were after the three I mentioned for instance? None of the top clubs made it really difficult for Tottenham to get Berbatov or Man City to get Elano did they? Adebayor himself wasn't exactly seen to be a world beater at the time either.

 

So rather than chasing someone like Diego who would fall into your high price range, and who would attract attention from a lot of other clubs, we ought to look at players like Arshavin who doesn't have the reputation of Diego, but who looks like a quality player who could make an impact anyway, and perhaps surprise a lot of people like Elano has. It is up to our scouts to determine these kind of players though, which is not easy to be fair.

 

 

How much were the 'scouting finds' like Obi Mikel, Eduardo, Walcott?

 

Not sure I understand what you're saying here?

 

Players who still are only potential at the time of purchase will in todays market cost between 10-15m.

 

Players we need to compete (not just potential) will cost more.

 

Parky my man you dissapoint me >

 

Santa Cruz just cost Blackburn £3.5 million this past summer and it absolutely enraged me when it happened, because we had instead brought in Viduka.

 

Santa Cruz didn't do it at Bayern, but he had shown time and again what a good player he was with Paraguay, since the age of 17, in big tournaments.

 

If we do a good enough job scouting we could definitely find players with decent potential for between £6 million and £10 million in todays market.

 

if its no easy to get it right every time, and so unnecessary, please explain why manu and chelsea don't do it too ?

 

Picking out the one in three successes [or whatever the ratio is] proves absolutely nothing mate.

 

 

 

Santa Cruz is an extreme example I agree and he was particularly cheap.

 

I am talking about £6 million to £10 million. You can definitely get good players for that amount still.

 

I agree it isn't easy but even if you spend £30 million on a player it still isn't easy, and both Chelsea and Man U have messed up a ton of times. However, they are richer and more succesful than us at the moment and so can afford to do so.

[Baggio]

I think you're giving the teams outside of the top 4 too much credit if you think it'll cost £100 million to catch them, Parky.

 

Best be safe than sorry Baggy.

 

 

You know as well as I do in the current market the 2/3 players of extreme quality we need won't come cheap and no end of delusion about scouting and what not is going to change that...

 

I don't expect them to come cheap, £100 million is a huge amount though mate.

 

A good manager could get us there with £30-40 million if spent properly, the important thing is tactics and getting the team playing right.

 

Perhaps.

 

We are a long way behind the top 4 and are already imo falling behind the likes of Pompey, City and Spurs,

 

City have already spent 35m odd and will spend in Jan and again in the summer. So will the other two more than likely.

 

We are catching up.

 

We need one big window and another biggish window before we can start to frighten sides imo.

 

Nobody has said we don't need to spend, of course we do but the figure you've quoted is miles out, a decent manager would be a better investment long term.

 

I wouldn't give Allardyce a penny though.

 

[KaKa]

We need to do a better job of scouting as a club and bring in players in the £6 - £10 million range who still have the potential to become better, and more expensive should we choose to sell and make a profit.

 

For example Elano, Adebayor and Berbatov, who were bought for £8 million, £6 million and £10 million respectively, but how much would they fetch in the market now?

 

I don't think we have to go as far as buying players who cost £15 - £25 million each.

 

Behave yourself Parky.

 

So other more appealing clubs are going to step aside?

 

 

 

 

Most players in this range aren't seen to be the finished article for the most part, and therefore aren't pursued by a lot of other clubs. There is still a bit of a question mark with them for various reasons, for example being in smaller leagues.

 

How many people were after the three I mentioned for instance? None of the top clubs made it really difficult for Tottenham to get Berbatov or Man City to get Elano did they? Adebayor himself wasn't exactly seen to be a world beater at the time either.

 

So rather than chasing someone like Diego who would fall into your high price range, and who would attract attention from a lot of other clubs, we ought to look at players like Arshavin who doesn't have the reputation of Diego, but who looks like a quality player who could make an impact anyway, and perhaps surprise a lot of people like Elano has. It is up to our scouts to determine these kind of players though, which is not easy to be fair.

 

 

How much were the 'scouting finds' like Obi Mikel, Eduardo, Walcott?

 

Not sure I understand what you're saying here?

 

Players who still are only potential at the time of purchase will in todays market cost between 10-15m.

 

Players we need to compete (not just potential) will cost more.

 

Parky my man you dissapoint me >

 

Santa Cruz just cost Blackburn £3.5 million this past summer and it absolutely enraged me when it happened, because we had instead brought in Viduka.

 

Santa Cruz didn't do it at Bayern, but he had shown time and again what a good player he was with Paraguay, since the age of 17, in big tournaments.

 

If we do a good enough job scouting we could definitely find players with decent potential for between £6 million and £10 million in todays market.

 

 

f*** off about Santa Cruz he's average.

 

We've only just hired some scouts.

 

When do you want to start competing 2012??!!

 

Simmer down my firend, simmer down ...

 

[Parky]

We need to do a better job of scouting as a club and bring in players in the £6 - £10 million range who still have the potential to become better, and more expensive should we choose to sell and make a profit.

 

For example Elano, Adebayor and Berbatov, who were bought for £8 million, £6 million and £10 million respectively, but how much would they fetch in the market now?

 

I don't think we have to go as far as buying players who cost £15 - £25 million each.

 

Behave yourself Parky.

 

So other more appealing clubs are going to step aside?

 

 

 

 

Most players in this range aren't seen to be the finished article for the most part, and therefore aren't pursued by a lot of other clubs. There is still a bit of a question mark with them for various reasons, for example being in smaller leagues.

 

How many people were after the three I mentioned for instance? None of the top clubs made it really difficult for Tottenham to get Berbatov or Man City to get Elano did they? Adebayor himself wasn't exactly seen to be a world beater at the time either.

 

So rather than chasing someone like Diego who would fall into your high price range, and who would attract attention from a lot of other clubs, we ought to look at players like Arshavin who doesn't have the reputation of Diego, but who looks like a quality player who could make an impact anyway, and perhaps surprise a lot of people like Elano has. It is up to our scouts to determine these kind of players though, which is not easy to be fair.

 

 

How much were the 'scouting finds' like Obi Mikel, Eduardo, Walcott?

 

Not sure I understand what you're saying here?

 

Players who still are only potential at the time of purchase will in todays market cost between 10-15m.

 

Players we need to compete (not just potential) will cost more.

 

Parky my man you dissapoint me >

 

Santa Cruz just cost Blackburn £3.5 million this past summer and it absolutely enraged me when it happened, because we had instead brought in Viduka.

 

Santa Cruz didn't do it at Bayern, but he had shown time and again what a good player he was with Paraguay, since the age of 17, in big tournaments.

 

If we do a good enough job scouting we could definitely find players with decent potential for between £6 million and £10 million in todays market.

 

if its no easy to get it right every time, and so unnecessary, please explain why manu and chelsea don't do it too ?

 

Picking out the one in three successes [or whatever the ratio is] proves absolutely nothing mate.

 

 

 

Santa Cruz is an extreme example I agree and he was particularly cheap.

 

I am talking about £6 million to £10 million. You can definitely get good players for that amount still.

 

I agree it isn't easy but even if you spend £30 million on a player it still isn't easy, and both Chelsea and Man U have messed up a ton of times. However, they are richer and more succesful than us at the moment and so can afford to do so.

 

 

I wouldn't disagree with that on the whole. But the 2/3 players of extreme quality we need won't come cheap.

 

Look at the last 10m+ player we purchased, we were still buying potential and promise.

 

Uttery quality in todays market starts generally at 15m++

[johnnypd]

we have to spend big, but we also have to establish a better scouting system and also go for young players we can develop ourselves. the different aspects arent mutually exclusive. if we throw 50m willy nilly without sense or proper guidance like under souness it won't help us, in fact it will probably end up weakening us as we'll be in a worse off position financially. not sure allardyce is the main to trust with big sums tho so i would understand the board withholding the big money from him this window.

[Baggio]

We need to do a better job of scouting as a club and bring in players in the £6 - £10 million range who still have the potential to become better, and more expensive should we choose to sell and make a profit.

 

For example Elano, Adebayor and Berbatov, who were bought for £8 million, £6 million and £10 million respectively, but how much would they fetch in the market now?

 

I don't think we have to go as far as buying players who cost £15 - £25 million each.

 

Behave yourself Parky.

 

So other more appealing clubs are going to step aside?

 

 

 

 

Most players in this range aren't seen to be the finished article for the most part, and therefore aren't pursued by a lot of other clubs. There is still a bit of a question mark with them for various reasons, for example being in smaller leagues.

 

How many people were after the three I mentioned for instance? None of the top clubs made it really difficult for Tottenham to get Berbatov or Man City to get Elano did they? Adebayor himself wasn't exactly seen to be a world beater at the time either.

 

So rather than chasing someone like Diego who would fall into your high price range, and who would attract attention from a lot of other clubs, we ought to look at players like Arshavin who doesn't have the reputation of Diego, but who looks like a quality player who could make an impact anyway, and perhaps surprise a lot of people like Elano has. It is up to our scouts to determine these kind of players though, which is not easy to be fair.

 

 

How much were the 'scouting finds' like Obi Mikel, Eduardo, Walcott?

 

Not sure I understand what you're saying here?

 

Players who still are only potential at the time of purchase will in todays market cost between 10-15m.

 

Players we need to compete (not just potential) will cost more.

 

Parky my man you dissapoint me >

 

Santa Cruz just cost Blackburn £3.5 million this past summer and it absolutely enraged me when it happened, because we had instead brought in Viduka.

 

Santa Cruz didn't do it at Bayern, but he had shown time and again what a good player he was with Paraguay, since the age of 17, in big tournaments.

 

If we do a good enough job scouting we could definitely find players with decent potential for between £6 million and £10 million in todays market.

 

if its no easy to get it right every time, and so unnecessary, please explain why manu and chelsea don't do it too ?

 

Picking out the one in three successes [or whatever the ratio is] proves absolutely nothing mate.

 

 

 

 

Ditto.

 

I think the ratio is 1 in 12.

 

and faced with the choice between a 3.5m Santa Cruz or a 12m Ronaldo, I'd take a 12m Ronaldo. And so would manure it would seem.........

 

 

 

What about the choice between a £12m Ronaldo and a £28m Veron? Or between the £10m Berbatov and the £30m Shevchenko.

 

Spending big doesn't mean you've bought better.

[Dave]

The last time we spent BIG was an unmitigated disaster. Hope for more luck next time. Or even judgement, that would be nice.

[Decky]

 

quite amazing the amount of people still refusing to admit this, thus admitting the ex board showed ambition that we have yet to see from their successors.

 

 

 

Jesus wept, Ashley has been in charge here for about 6 months, he spent a fortune buying the club, then spent £75million on debts and also gave Sam funds in the summer, what the fuck more could he have done in the 6 months he has been here like?

[Parky]

The last time we spent BIG was an unmitigated disaster. Hope for more luck next time. Or even judgement, that would be nice.

 

As you say there are no gurantees Dave.

 

But on the other hand there is very little option in the market if we seriously want to compete at the highest levels, which is what we all want.

 

There are many routes to that but one certain route is we will have to bring in quality at some point.

[Dave]

The last time we spent BIG was an unmitigated disaster. Hope for more luck next time. Or even judgement, that would be nice.

 

As you say there are no gurantees Dave.

 

But on the other hand there is very little option in the market if we seriously want to compete at the highest levels, which is what we all want.

 

There are many routes to that but one certain route is we will have to bring in quality at some point.

 

Not wishing to start the usual arguments (please god help me), but do you really think the club don't know this? They'll be looking at the likes of Man City just as closely as we are and asking questions.

[fredbob]

 

quite amazing the amount of people still refusing to admit this, thus admitting the ex board showed ambition that we have yet to see from their successors.

 

 

 

Jesus wept, Ashley has been in charge here for about 6 months, he spent a fortune buying the club, then spent £75million on debts and also gave Sam funds in the summer, what the f*** more could he have done in the 6 months he has been here like?

 

I have a feeling that this thread maybe goig down a different route very soon!!!

[Baggio]

we have to spend big, but we also have to establish a better scouting system and also go for young players we can develop ourselves. the different aspects arent mutually exclusive. if we throw 50m willy nilly without sense or proper guidance like under souness it won't help us, in fact it will probably end up weakening us as we'll be in a worse off position financially. not sure allardyce is the main to trust with big sums tho so i would understand the board withholding the big money from him this window.

 

[Parky]

The last time we spent BIG was an unmitigated disaster. Hope for more luck next time. Or even judgement, that would be nice.

 

As you say there are no gurantees Dave.

 

But on the other hand there is very little option in the market if we seriously want to compete at the highest levels, which is what we all want.

 

There are many routes to that but one certain route is we will have to bring in quality at some point.

 

Not wishing to start the usual arguments (please god help me), but do you really think the club don't know this? They'll be looking at the likes of Man City just as closely as we are and asking questions.

 

 

FFS Dave!! Not the 'b' word. 

 

 

 

 

I take your point.

[Disco]

We don't need to spend man, we've got Alan Smith the worlds best midfielder/striker/right winger. With him in our team we simply cannot fail.

[Baggio]

We don't need to spend man, we've got Alan Smith the worlds best midfielder/striker/right winger. With him in our team we simply cannot fail.

 

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10.

[Dave]

The last time we spent BIG was an unmitigated disaster. Hope for more luck next time. Or even judgement, that would be nice.

 

As you say there are no gurantees Dave.

 

But on the other hand there is very little option in the market if we seriously want to compete at the highest levels, which is what we all want.

 

There are many routes to that but one certain route is we will have to bring in quality at some point.

 

Not wishing to start the usual arguments (please god help me), but do you really think the club don't know this? They'll be looking at the likes of Man City just as closely as we are and asking questions.

 

 

FFS Dave!! Not the 'b' word. 

 

 

 

 

I take your point.

 

 

[Happy Face]

 

Perhaps.

 

We are a long way behind the top 4 and are already imo falling behind the likes of Pompey, City and Spurs,

 

City have already spent 35m odd and will spend in Jan and again in the summer. So will the other two more than likely.

 

We are catching up.

 

We need one big window and another biggish window before we can start to frighten sides imo.

 

quite amazing the amount of people still refusing to admit this, thus admitting the ex board showed ambition that we have yet to see from their successors.

 

 

 

The ex board displayed a reckless abandon in trying to spend us out of trouble that would have left us as the next Leeds.

[ChezGiven]

We don't need to spend man, we've got Alan Smith the worlds best midfielder/striker/right winger. With him in our team we simply cannot fail.

 

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10.

 

I thought that was Parky's original point.

 

Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle.

[Happy Face]

I thought this was a wind up thread that would die on it's arse, but as some people are deluded enough to buy into this...

 

£100M on 15 - £25m players will get you 4 - 7 players.

 

Name me 4 - 7 players who's are currently valued at that (or even went for £10M in the last couple of years) that would come to the Toon now.

[Parky]

We don't need to spend man, we've got Alan Smith the worlds best midfielder/striker/right winger. With him in our team we simply cannot fail.

 

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10.

 

I thought that was Parky's original point.

 

Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle.

 

I knew you would.

 

 

 

 

But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. 

[Parky]

I thought this was a wind up thread that would die on it's arse, but as some people are deluded enough to buy into this...

 

£100M on 15 - £25m players will get you 4 - 7 players.

 

Name me 4 - 7 players who's are currently valued at that (or even went for £10M in the last couple of years) that would come to the Toon now.

 

 

...following that logic (painful) even if we spent 50m on 2/3 players they still wouldn't come....eh?

 

You think we can't attract top players?

 

The PL is now the No.1 destination of most top players in the world read the opening article.

 

They can't all go to the top 4 surely? 

 

Liverpool already has 80 players on its books. mackems.gif

[Thespence]

...following that logic (painful) even if we spent 50m on 2/3 players they still wouldn't come....eh?

 

We can get 3 players for the best part of £50m as Souey proved.

[ChezGiven]

We don't need to spend man, we've got Alan Smith the worlds best midfielder/striker/right winger. With him in our team we simply cannot fail.

 

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10.

 

I thought that was Parky's original point.

 

Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle.

 

I knew you would.

 

But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. 

 

There are still a few deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players but most recognise that, on the whole, the squad is where it ought to be in the prem.

 

We need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of higher quality than anyone already at the club to be where Ashley said he wanted the club to be in the next few years. I think over the next 18 months, £100m (spent not net spend) isnt far off.

[Parky]

We don't need to spend man, we've got Alan Smith the worlds best midfielder/striker/right winger. With him in our team we simply cannot fail.

 

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10.

 

I thought that was Parky's original point.

 

Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle.

 

I knew you would.

 

But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. 

 

There are still a few deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players but most recognise that, on the whole, the squad is where it ought to be in the prem.

 

We need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of higher quality than anyone already at the club to be where Ashley said he wanted the club to be in the next few years. I think over the next 18 months, £100m (spent not net spend) isnt far off.

 

Sweet. 

[fredbob]

...following that logic (painful) even if we spent 50m on 2/3 players they still wouldn't come....eh?

 

We can get 3 players for the best part of £50m as Souey proved.

 

Well this kinda leads back to my point, spending big on players is useless if you arent competent enough to get the best out of them. Most of Sounesses signing were justifiable but when it came down to it, they didnt perform because the management and coaching wasnt upto scratch.

 

This is why i would be against giving Allardyce so much money in suchg a short period of time, becuase as it stands in my book he hasnt done anthing with his signings and hasnt brought on the games of many or any of the players that we have at the club.

 

Its a recipe for disaster if you ask me.