Baggio Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Defoe has a good goalscoring record in whatever competition he's played in for Spurs. This is true. Defoe has (since 2004).............. Started 87 games in the premiership and scored 43 goals Started 7 F.A Cup games and scored 5 goals Started 10 Carling cup games and scored 10 goals Started 4 uefa cup games and scored 6 goals Total = 108 starts and 64 goals I take it he never scored in the 63 occasions he come on from the bench then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSG Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'd have Crouch or Ashton as our centre-forward personally. Crouch is shit in the air but he "wins" a lot of balls in the air so with the right players a lot of joy can be had from that. Ashton is the opposite, very clever in the air, he's like Viduka too in that he's excellent with the ball to feet, but he's also good in the air and facing up to defenders. He's a handful, deceptively mobile and very creative for a forward. Scores goals too. Just a shame about his injury record otherwise he's your man. I've always been a huge fan of Ashton, every time i've seen him play he's dominated defences. IIRC he said that he's modelled his game on Shearer. Ashton and Defoe would be an exciting partnership like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Interesting points HTT but from what you're saying I think it's more likely we'd sign Diouf than Defoe. imo Allardyce believes that if you put the ball into the 'right areas' you'll win corners, throw-ins, free kicks - you then turn these into goals with well rehearsed set pieces utilising strength and power. From what I've seen so far I'm not sure there's any place in his philosophy for short arsed pacey strikers like Defoe. So why did he sign Anelka then? I watched a lot of Bolton last year and their style changed, they were not that different to Chelsea or Liverpool in style of play. I understand Diouf may be a better man for Big Sam if only because he's proven under him and I'd like him here too, him and Defoe wide of Viduka or ideally, someone like Crouch or Ashton. Then add a playmaker into the middle, some legs in there too.... We'd all see a different picture. I may well be wrong on this but my impression is that Anelka isn't short. Anelka is a special case - I think he could play as a stiker in any system. I don't think Defoe is in his league tbh. I truly believe the manager has a vision of how he wants to play and what we're getting now isn't that vision or even close to it. I hope you're right about that HTT. The players must be getting this relentless "direct football" crap from somewhere - whether it's the first step in the evolution of a footballing masterplan or not, we'll see, but he better get on with it. I wouldn't see Defoe as the man to kickstart a revolution in our play though, I wouldn't rate him that highly - in fact I could easily see him disappearing in our games. On the other hand if we got Anelka......but then there is zero chance of that :-[ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I don't get it Baggio, you seem to favour Martins but turn your nose up at Defoe who is a better all-round player and an equal goalscorer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I don't get it Baggio, you seem to favour Martins but turn your nose up at Defoe who is a better all-round player and an equal goalscorer? I don't think he's an all round better striker, in fact I think Defoe looks pretty average even in a very good footballing side like Spurs, he'd struggle more here than Martins has under Allardyce's tactics.. Here's Johnnypd's post btw. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135121#msg1135121 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Any comment on this post? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135071#msg1135071 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Interesting points HTT but from what you're saying I think it's more likely we'd sign Diouf than Defoe. imo Allardyce believes that if you put the ball into the 'right areas' you'll win corners, throw-ins, free kicks - you then turn these into goals with well rehearsed set pieces utilising strength and power. From what I've seen so far I'm not sure there's any place in his philosophy for short arsed pacey strikers like Defoe. So why did he sign Anelka then? I watched a lot of Bolton last year and their style changed, they were not that different to Chelsea or Liverpool in style of play. I understand Diouf may be a better man for Big Sam if only because he's proven under him and I'd like him here too, him and Defoe wide of Viduka or ideally, someone like Crouch or Ashton. Then add a playmaker into the middle, some legs in there too.... We'd all see a different picture. I may well be wrong on this but my impression is that Anelka isn't short. Anelka is a special case - I think he could play as a stiker in any system. I don't think Defoe is in his league tbh. I truly believe the manager has a vision of how he wants to play and what we're getting now isn't that vision or even close to it. I hope you're right about that HTT. The players must be getting this relentless "direct football" crap from somewhere - whether it's the first step in the evolution of a footballing masterplan or not, we'll see, but he better get on with it. I wouldn't see Defoe as the man to kickstart a revolution in our play though, I wouldn't rate him that highly - in fact I could easily see him disappearing in our games. On the other hand if we got Anelka......but then there is zero chance of that :-[ I'd see Defoe as a step, a piece of a much larger jigsaw. I don't know where they are getting the constant long ball from either because I've seen the manager motion and scream many a time for the players to calm it down, to keep possession and to pass the ball. Fear I think plays a part, especially at home. If we don't thrust that ball forward quickly and get at the opposition the groans grow and grow hence players forcing the ball. Taylor is the worst. Watch him closely and he'll motion for someone to take the ball off him, he'll dilly dally and move forward with it even, then he panics and launches it. By fear I also mean lack of confidence. Time and time again a Toon shirt will turn their back on the man in possession which just begs for the ball to be launched. Ability is the biggest factor though. Our players lack the technique and imagination to keep that ball moving on the deck in pretty patterns, even when we try it breaks down. Plus that type of football can't be created overnight either, like Big Sam Wenger has had years to perfect his style in France and Japan, less pressurised football nations where time on the ball isn't met with moans and groans, or players aren't pressed hard. What pisses me of is our players' inability to do the very basics, they even struggle to control the ball and if you can't control the ball as I was reminded constantly doing my coaching thing, you won't be able to do anything with it as an individual or a team. We won't become a slick footballing machine under the manager, but we won't be as shit as we are now if he gets some time and money. And I can guarantee if we're pissed off about all those aimless long balls, a manager who is pre-occupied with percentages, will not be happy either and will look to change all that, just as he did at Bolton. I'm positive if he's giving time and money, we'll turn around our performances. With Defoe of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdawson Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 What's your thoughts on Defoe Kingdawson? Mind, I'm afraid to ask like Defoe's a strange one tbh. At first i rated him highly and always wondered what the heck Jol was playing at when he continuosly kept choosing Keane ahead of him BUT over time i started to realise how limited his game really is. If you like seeing your strikers just put there heads down and shoot as hard as they can then Defoe's your man. Saying that, he is easily capable of getting 20 goals a season. It really depends on what your looking for in your striker. OHHHHHHHH another thing. If you lot do manage to sign Defoe (you wont though imo :parky:), but if you did somehow manage to pull it off, then im 100% sure he'll be a big success here which is mostly down to the fact that you have a certain Mark Viduka. When Kanoute was around, Defoe was absolutly fantastic and kanoute and viduka have certain similarities which is tailor made for Defoe's game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Any comment on this post? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135071#msg1135071 Is that good? Breaks down as... 03-04 7 Goals, 15 Games 04-05 13 Goals, 35 Games 05-06 9 Goals, 36 Games 06-07 10 Goals, 34 Games 07-08 4 Goals, 17 Games I think 4 goals in the last 6 league games has put Defoe in the spotlight, he's a player I've never rated and all this about him running the channels is a myth, not fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdawson Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Any comment on this post? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135071#msg1135071 Is that good? Breaks down as... 03-04 7 Goals, 15 Games 04-05 13 Goals, 35 Games 05-06 9 Goals, 36 Games 06-07 10 Goals, 34 Games 07-08 4 Goals, 17 Games I think 4 goals in the last 6 league games has put Defoe in the spotlight, he's a player I've never rated and all this about him running the channels is a myth, not fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. Baggio i cant deny that you usually get it spot on when you're talking about spurs But one thing i dont understand is, how can you rate Martins yet not rate defoe even though there game is practically identical? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Any comment on this post? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135071#msg1135071 Is that good? Breaks down as... 03-04 7 Goals, 15 Games 04-05 13 Goals, 35 Games 05-06 9 Goals, 36 Games 06-07 10 Goals, 34 Games 07-08 4 Goals, 17 Games I think 4 goals in the last 6 league games has put Defoe in the spotlight, he's a player I've never rated and all this about him running the channels is a myth, not fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. I'm not commenting on Defoe as such (your comment in bold is probably true, it's normally the case - though there is also the matter of his availability), I just looked up your suggestion most of his goals came in the cup competitions and found it to be a little wide of the markTM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 What's your thoughts on Defoe Kingdawson? Mind, I'm afraid to ask like Defoe's a strange one tbh. At first i rated him highly and always wondered what the heck Jol was playing at when he continuosly kept choosing Keane ahead of him BUT over time i started to realise how limited his game really is. If you like seeing your strikers just put there heads down and shoot as hard as they can then Defoe's your man. Saying that, he is easily capable of getting 20 goals a season. It really depends on what your looking for in your striker. OHHHHHHHH another thing. If you lot do manage to sign Defoe (you wont though imo :parky:), but if you did somehow manage to pull it off, then im 100% sure he'll be a big success here which is mostly down to the fact that you have a certain Mark Viduka. When Kanoute was around, Defoe was absolutly fantastic and kanoute and viduka have certain similarities which is tailor made for Defoe's game. Cheers for that. I've often thought he's been underused at Spurs and I don't mean by being benched, I mean his role in the team. It seems to me Jol tried to change his game and couldn't or Defoe was reluctant to so he become a fringe player. Whenever I've seen him for yous though, he's worked the channels well and while I know MOTD highlighted that as a flaw in his game, citing he needs to get in the box more (using Owen as an example), I don't think that's his game. You can tell he likes being involved, he likes driving at, through or being in space rather than hanging around the goal. Which is exactly what we don't need, another goalhanger. The more I thionk about it the more Defoe would be perfect for us I feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'd have Crouch or Ashton as our centre-forward personally. Crouch is s*** in the air but he "wins" a lot of balls in the air so with the right players a lot of joy can be had from that. Ashton is the opposite, very clever in the air, he's like Viduka too in that he's excellent with the ball to feet, but he's also good in the air and facing up to defenders. He's a handful, deceptively mobile and very creative for a forward. Scores goals too. Just a shame about his injury record otherwise he's your man. Well yes, but I am guessing we would only sign 1 forward for big bucks while we have Owen,Viduka, Oba & Smith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Any comment on this post? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135071#msg1135071 Is that good? Breaks down as... 03-04 7 Goals, 15 Games 04-05 13 Goals, 35 Games 05-06 9 Goals, 36 Games 06-07 10 Goals, 34 Games 07-08 4 Goals, 17 Games I think 4 goals in the last 6 league games has put Defoe in the spotlight, he's a player I've never rated and all this about him running the channels is a myth, not fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. A myth? He regularly ends up wide positionally, indeed he's criticised for not getting in the box more, for not sniffing out chances like an Owen and therefore "he doesn't score as many as he should", anyway so where doe he play then would you say? I'll give you the Keane one, much improved player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'd have Crouch or Ashton as our centre-forward personally. Crouch is s*** in the air but he "wins" a lot of balls in the air so with the right players a lot of joy can be had from that. Ashton is the opposite, very clever in the air, he's like Viduka too in that he's excellent with the ball to feet, but he's also good in the air and facing up to defenders. He's a handful, deceptively mobile and very creative for a forward. Scores goals too. Just a shame about his injury record otherwise he's your man. Well yes, but I am guessing we would only sign 1 forward for big bucks while we have Owen,Viduka, Oba & Smith. Aye, shame that. I'd peddle the pair (Martins and Owen) me and I can't help feeling the manager feels the same way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 One of our biggest mistakes in years was buying Owen instead of going for Anelka. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'd have Crouch or Ashton as our centre-forward personally. Crouch is s*** in the air but he "wins" a lot of balls in the air so with the right players a lot of joy can be had from that. Ashton is the opposite, very clever in the air, he's like Viduka too in that he's excellent with the ball to feet, but he's also good in the air and facing up to defenders. He's a handful, deceptively mobile and very creative for a forward. Scores goals too. Just a shame about his injury record otherwise he's your man. Well yes, but I am guessing we would only sign 1 forward for big bucks while we have Owen,Viduka, Oba & Smith. Aye, shame that. I'd peddle the pair (Martins and Owen) me and I can't help feeling the manager feels the same way. Aye. It is finding a club with the £££'s though, lets hope QPR get promoted this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Any comment on this post? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135071#msg1135071 Is that good? Breaks down as... 03-04 7 Goals, 15 Games 04-05 13 Goals, 35 Games 05-06 9 Goals, 36 Games 06-07 10 Goals, 34 Games 07-08 4 Goals, 17 Games I think 4 goals in the last 6 league games has put Defoe in the spotlight, he's a player I've never rated and all this about him running the channels is a myth, not fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. Baggio i cant deny that you usually get it spot on when you're talking about spurs But one thing i dont understand is, how can you rate Martins yet not rate defoe even though there game is practically identical? Because I don't think our style suits Martins at all where as Spurs play a good passing game that suits Defoe perfectly, I think if Martins played in a team that created as much as Spurs do he'd impress much more than he's doing now, he's also got that unpredictable side to him which I've always liked in a footballer, similar to Robert I don't mind overlooking a half arsed performance for the odd bit of magic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Any comment on this post? http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48452.msg1135071#msg1135071 Is that good? Breaks down as... 03-04 7 Goals, 15 Games 04-05 13 Goals, 35 Games 05-06 9 Goals, 36 Games 06-07 10 Goals, 34 Games 07-08 4 Goals, 17 Games I think 4 goals in the last 6 league games has put Defoe in the spotlight, he's a player I've never rated and all this about him running the channels is a myth, not fit to lace Robbie Keane's boots. A myth? He regularly ends up wide positionally, indeed he's criticised for not getting in the box more, for not sniffing out chances like an Owen and therefore "he doesn't score as many as he should", anyway so where doe he play then would you say? I'll give you the Keane one, much improved player. He plays on the shoulder of the last man quite a bit, looking for flick ons from Berbatov. I'm not saying he never goes wide but I wouldn't say he gets out there any more than Martins does, certainly nowhere near as much as the likes of Keane, Bellamy, Diouf etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Btw I'm too tired to get into a big discussion HTT so if you're planning on writing a mega post, don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Much rather have Farfan from PSV. He plays that 4-3-3 wide striker role to perfection. I do think that Defoe would be better than our current lot though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcmichael Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I would love Defoe in Newcastle, I would much rather prefer him than Owen. Owen is finished... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Downing & Defoe to swap clubs Source: Daily Star :-[ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Downing & Defoe to swap clubs Source: Daily Star :-[ The star. When reading it you get deja vu because every article starts with "Blah blah is on the cards, according to some player." Quality read is the star. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Can't see Defoe fancying Boro tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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