Who do you blame for this summer's debacle?

[buzza]

Very dissapointing!

Fingers crossed that we have a fully fit 1st eleven for the next 4 months until we can get reinforcements/be let down again.... bluecool.gif

[Guest mr quimbys beard]

One things for certain, we are gunna struggle defensively this season, well at least until january, if we had bought a couple of defenders i think everything would be fine and we would all be looking forward to the rest of the campaign, my feeling is that the right players for our club werent available for one reason or another, but i must say i do blame the manager and the chairman for not doing something about our defence sooner, that is the key area on the pitch, always has been and always will be until we start building a team from the back and not the front as we always do.

[Northern Monkey]

One things for certain, we are gunna struggle defensively this season, well at least until january, if we had bought a couple of defenders i think everything would be fine and we would all be looking forward to the rest of the campaign, my feeling is that the right players for our club werent available for one reason or another, but i must say i do blame the manager and the chairman for not doing something about our defence sooner, that is the key area on the pitch, always has been and always will be until we start building a team from the back and not the front as we always do.

 

If the right players weren't available and we bought no-one defensively, does that mean that Sibierski was the right player for midfield? Because i doubt that very much. Lets stop making excuses for him, Roeder biffed it up.

[Guest Gemmill]

One things for certain, we are gunna struggle defensively this season, well at least until january, if we had bought a couple of defenders i think everything would be fine and we would all be looking forward to the rest of the campaign, my feeling is that the right players for our club werent available for one reason or another, but i must say i do blame the manager and the chairman for not doing something about our defence sooner, that is the key area on the pitch, always has been and always will be until we start building a team from the back and not the front as we always do.

 

If the right players weren't available and we bought no-one defensively, does that mean that Sibierski was the right player for midfield? Because i doubt that very much. Lets stop making excuses for him, Roeder biffed it up.

 

Exactly.  No matter how you look at the defender/striker cock-up, the Sibierski signing was so obviously a last minute "anyone going spare?" conversation that Shepherd and Roeder have had with Willy McKay.  As far as I'm aware we have wasted a fee on him, and we will be wasting several hundred thousand pound paying his wages over the course of the year.  Why add so unnecessarily to the wage bill?

 

One reason:  just to get SOMEBODY through the door.  That's the sort of incompetence we are dealing with here.  There is no football sense in this decision.  He was just cheap and it's someone to point at and say "look, we signed HIM."  Pathetic.

[Guest Old Shep]

Shepherd!  There has been a long history of poor strategic planning.  He makes unwise big-name signings of players but appoints strictly bottom-draw coaches that can be under his control.  I bet he couldn't believe his luck when GR produced a decent run-in at the end of the season allowing him to justify the appointment and disregard the likes of O'Neil.  Other managers may have wanted to control the transfers themselves.

[ToonTastic]

I never understand how the manager gets the blame if transfers don't go through nowadays (yes before but not not) all managers do now is give the chairman a list of who they want the chairman should do the rest (or the director of football) so FS has to be to blame for any players who didn't come which GR wanted.

[Slugsy]

Both to blame - with FS its obvious, with Roeder I think we have now seen a big weakness -shambolic transfer strategy and targetting.

[Howaythelads]

I never understand how the manager gets the blame if transfers don't go through nowadays (yes before but not not) all managers do now is give the chairman a list of who they want the chairman should do the rest (or the director of football) so FS has to be to blame for any players who didn't come which GR wanted.

 

Tosh, tbh. There can be all kinds of reasons why a player doesn't join the club. All kinds.

[Howaythelads]

The point is if Roeder is a failure then Shepherd will be responsible for appointing 4 failures out of 5.

However some will say its not his fault as they looked good on paper (Dalglish, Gullit).

However the Chairman and Boards of other big clubs, and that is who we should be comparing ourselves with not the also rans which we are becoming, manage to apoint quality Managers who bring in quality players.

So something is wrong somewhere.

 

Easy question for you, since it's so easy to get it right and so hard to get it wrong...

 

Tell me the criteria you would use for making a managerial appointment at a football club?

 

How do you explain the same Arsenal Board appointing a sucession of crap managers before they finally got it right with Wenger?

 

How do you explain Souness being appointed by the same Liverpool Board?

 

How do you explain manure going years without winning the league ( which was their aim ) and appointing a succession of shite managers before they got it right and appointed Ferguson?

 

How do you explain Chelsea selling Gallas behind the back of their manager? How do you explain Chelsea not being able to appoint a championship winning manager until they were swamped with Abramovich cash?

 

It's ironic that the manager who did the best for us in recent times is one you wouldn't have appointed anyway.

[Cronky]

Whoever's at fault here, it certainly isn't Roeder. He's only just taken over, and it looks like the transfer budget, based on the difference between outgoings and income, was £10 million. From all the frantic last minute activity involving Milner, it's clear that there weren't any other funds unless someone was sold.

 

On the basis of that budget, the overall outcome isn't that bad. Roeder also had the bad luck of a long-term injury to Owen, and possibly Shola as well, and needing to put nearly all his attention into the striking department.

 

The fault lies with whichever people you'd consider responsible for the situation where we had such a limited budget, with so many gaps to improve. Bad luck with injuries to strikers is only part of the problem, and as a big club in financial terms, we should be in a position to deal with that.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Roeder and Shepheard are the ONLY ones who can be held responsible.

[Guest Gemmill]

Whoever's at fault here, it certainly isn't Roeder. He's only just taken over, and it looks like the transfer budget, based on the difference between outgoings and income, was £10 million. From all the frantic last minute activity involving Milner, it's clear that there weren't any other funds unless someone was sold.

 

On the basis of that budget, the overall outcome isn't that bad. Roeder also had the bad luck of a long-term injury to Owen, and possibly Shola as well, and needing to put nearly all his attention into the striking department.

 

The fault lies with whichever people you'd consider responsible for the situation where we had such a limited budget, with so many gaps to improve. Bad luck with injuries to strikers is only part of the problem, and as a big club in financial terms, we should be in a position to deal with that.

 

If he knew what his transfer budget was, spending £10m on Martins and £5m on a position we already had covered was moronic.  That's Roeder's fault and he takes full responsibility for it.  End of story.

 

I was pleased with both the Duff and the Martins signings because all along I thought SURELY we wouldn't spend all that money if it left us with none.  That would be rank stupidity.  I didn't reckon with the Glenn and Freddy show.

[Cronky]

Whoever's at fault here, it certainly isn't Roeder. He's only just taken over, and it looks like the transfer budget, based on the difference between outgoings and income, was £10 million. From all the frantic last minute activity involving Milner, it's clear that there weren't any other funds unless someone was sold.

 

On the basis of that budget, the overall outcome isn't that bad. Roeder also had the bad luck of a long-term injury to Owen, and possibly Shola as well, and needing to put nearly all his attention into the striking department.

 

The fault lies with whichever people you'd consider responsible for the situation where we had such a limited budget, with so many gaps to improve. Bad luck with injuries to strikers is only part of the problem, and as a big club in financial terms, we should be in a position to deal with that.

 

If he knew what his transfer budget was, spending £10m on Martins and £5m on a position we already had covered was moronic. That's Roeder's fault and he takes full responsibility for it. End of story.

 

I was pleased with both the Duff and the Martins signings because all along I thought SURELY we wouldn't spend all that money if it left us with none. That would be rank stupidity. I didn't reckon with the Glenn and Freddy show.

 

I don’t think you’re being fair here. There was a massive gap in the striking department, through no fault of Roeder’s, and that needed to be filled.  Duff’s acquisition wasn’t needed in the same way (although he can fill in as a striker), but £5 million is such a bargain for a player of that quality that I don’t see how it could have been turned down. In any case, unless you’re able to sign a player on a free, that sort of money is only going to get you one more player in the other departments who’s better than the ones we’ve already got.

 

I do think we bungled though in not going for Sol Campbell.

 

[ohmelads]

Unlike us, I'm sure Roeder knew what sort of money he was working with. If he knew he only had £15m then to spend it all on Duff and Martins was stupid and he has brought this on himself.

[Guest The Fox]

The point is if Roeder is a failure then Shepherd will be responsible for appointing 4 failures out of 5.

However some will say its not his fault as they looked good on paper (Dalglish, Gullit).

However the Chairman and Boards of other big clubs, and that is who we should be comparing ourselves with not the also rans which we are becoming, manage to apoint quality Managers who bring in quality players.

So something is wrong somewhere.

 

Easy question for you, since it's so easy to get it right and so hard to get it wrong...

 

Tell me the criteria you would use for making a managerial appointment at a football club?

 

How do you explain the same Arsenal Board appointing a sucession of crap managers before they finally got it right with Wenger?

 

How do you explain Souness being appointed by the same Liverpool Board?

 

How do you explain manure going years without winning the league ( which was their aim ) and appointing a succession of shite managers before they got it right and appointed Ferguson?

 

How do you explain Chelsea selling Gallas behind the back of their manager? How do you explain Chelsea not being able to appoint a championship winning manager until they were swamped with Abramovich cash?

 

It's ironic that the manager who did the best for us in recent times is one you wouldn't have appointed anyway.

 

HTL

I expected better from you.

You have done you're usual trick of not responding to the actual comments but asking a load of questions that are totaly irrelevant.

We are talking about the period Shepherd has been in charge. During that period Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U (Ferguson was already there I know) and Chelsea have all had top quality Manages that were appointed by The Chairman and Board and have proved successful. During the same period Shepherd's record is as I stated above. So how do you explain that other than to agree that the appointments apart from Robson (for a period) were totallu unsuccessful.

You can defend Shepherd until the cows come home but the buck stops there, you cant deny the facts, although knowing you, you probably will.

By the way I'm not getting into a longwinded mindless debate, no doubt with patronising comments, which I know you like. I've stated my opinion based on fact, if you wish to not see it, fine by me.

[Guest Knightrider]

HTL: Transfer window, failure or not?

[Dave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/5305034.stm

 

If you are looking for losers on transfer deadline day, look no further than Newcastle United - and their young star James Milner.

 

Newcastle signed Oba Martins to add to Damien Duff, but they were outmanouevred by neighbours Middlesbrough to land Chelsea's Robert Huth, who also captured a genuine class act in another Toon target Jonathan Woodgate.

 

Freddy Shepherd was apparently working morning, noon and night to land his top targets - after chivalrously standing aside, so it was reported, to let Liverpool sign Dirk Kuyt and and allow Thomas Gravesen to join Celtic.

 

But he missed out on Middlesbrough's Mark Viduka, and the fruits of Newcastle's labours were a favour from Sir Alex Ferguson to sign the highly-rated Giuseppe Rossi on a short-term loan and a successful deal to sign Antoine Sibierski, surplus to requirements at Manchester City.

 

As the Viduka move stalled, poor Milner was hauled back to Newcastle after agreeing terms at Villa Park - a ridiculous turn of events and not the finest piece of man-management.

 

The return of Olivier Bernard on a free transfer is hardly likely to have them dancing in the Bigg Market.

 

Boss Glenn Roeder knows fans will be frustrated, and will be hoping for good fortune with injuries to stave off early discontent.

 

Everyone knows it.

[Howaythelads]

The point is if Roeder is a failure then Shepherd will be responsible for appointing 4 failures out of 5.

However some will say its not his fault as they looked good on paper (Dalglish, Gullit).

However the Chairman and Boards of other big clubs, and that is who we should be comparing ourselves with not the also rans which we are becoming, manage to apoint quality Managers who bring in quality players.

So something is wrong somewhere.

 

Easy question for you, since it's so easy to get it right and so hard to get it wrong...

 

Tell me the criteria you would use for making a managerial appointment at a football club?

 

How do you explain the same Arsenal Board appointing a sucession of crap managers before they finally got it right with Wenger?

 

How do you explain Souness being appointed by the same Liverpool Board?

 

How do you explain manure going years without winning the league ( which was their aim ) and appointing a succession of shite managers before they got it right and appointed Ferguson?

 

How do you explain Chelsea selling Gallas behind the back of their manager? How do you explain Chelsea not being able to appoint a championship winning manager until they were swamped with Abramovich cash?

 

It's ironic that the manager who did the best for us in recent times is one you wouldn't have appointed anyway.

 

HTL

I expected better from you.

You have done you're usual trick of not responding to the actual comments but asking a load of questions that are totaly irrelevant.

We are talking about the period Shepherd has been in charge. During that period Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U (Ferguson was already there I know) and Chelsea have all had top quality Manages that were appointed by The Chairman and Board and have proved successful. During the same period Shepherd's record is as I stated above. So how do you explain that other than to agree that the appointments apart from Robson (for a period) were totallu unsuccessful.

You can defend Shepherd until the cows come home but the buck stops there, you cant deny the facts, although knowing you, you probably will.

By the way I'm not getting into a longwinded mindless debate, no doubt with patronising comments, which I know you like. I've stated my opinion based on fact, if you wish to not see it, fine by me.

 

On the contrary, I think I addressed your points. It would be good if you can somehow justify your position.

[Howaythelads]

HTL: Transfer window, failure or not?

 

Time will tell.

 

The juveniles were appeased by the club spending more money last summer than this summer, but it didn't work then, did it? Although some still claim that transfer dealings such as signing Luque were good.  bluebiggrin.gif

[johnnypd]

One things for certain, we are gunna struggle defensively this season, well at least until january, if we had bought a couple of defenders i think everything would be fine and we would all be looking forward to the rest of the campaign, my feeling is that the right players for our club werent available for one reason or another, but i must say i do blame the manager and the chairman for not doing something about our defence sooner, that is the key area on the pitch, always has been and always will be until we start building a team from the back and not the front as we always do.

 

If the right players weren't available and we bought no-one defensively, does that mean that Sibierski was the right player for midfield? Because i doubt that very much. Lets stop making excuses for him, Roeder biffed it up.

 

Exactly.  No matter how you look at the defender/striker cock-up, the Sibierski signing was so obviously a last minute "anyone going spare?" conversation that Shepherd and Roeder have had with Willy McKay. As far as I'm aware we have wasted a fee on him, and we will be wasting several hundred thousand pound paying his wages over the course of the year.  Why add so unnecessarily to the wage bill?

 

One reason:  just to get SOMEBODY through the door.  That's the sort of incompetence we are dealing with here.  There is no football sense in this decision.  He was just cheap and it's someone to point at and say "look, we signed HIM."  Pathetic.

 

if McKay is indeed Sibierski's agent then i can't imagine that the situation was anything but that. it shows how backward our entire approach to transfers is. the backwardness stems from Roeder's naivety & lack of knowledge as well as Shepherd's predilection for cronyism. Other clubs, Pompey and Wigan for instance, picked up free transfer and loan targets on the last day that are vastly superior to Sibierski - Todorov (who has been in good form), Andy Cole and Douala.

 

I can't see Shepherd's approach ever changing, but Roeder has to learn from this. don't put all your eggs in one basket cos that leaves you desperate when your initial targets don't work out. try to get your signings done in good time. and have a back-up plan!

[Dave]

HTL: Transfer window, failure or not?

 

Time will tell.

 

The juveniles were appeased by the club spending more money last summer than this summer, but it didn't work then, did it? Although some still claim that transfer dealings such as signing Luque were good.  bluebiggrin.gif

 

Could one not use the same argument you use for defending Shepherd's method of identifying and employing managers to defend the signing of those players? Many people (only juveniles though, not wise old owls) thought the transfers would work out.

[NE5]

Views are usually very polarised, so it should be a simple question.

 

I've stuck Souness in with Shepherd for two reasons:

• Shepherd employed Souness
  
• It will annoy NE5
  

 

Terrible if we only finish half way in the league isn't it ?

 

Commit suicide will you ?

 

Still, you can always stop going if you aren't happy. Poor thing.

 

Too many people supported Souness, in my view, thats why he stayed so long - its obvious the club take loads of notice of these message boards 

 

 

[Dave]

 

Nice one, I knew you'd bite eventually.

[NE5]

 

Nice one, I knew you'd bite eventually.

 

Just giving the benefit of my wisdom, I don't look at every post or thread.....next time highlight it or something 

[Howaythelads]

One things for certain, we are gunna struggle defensively this season, well at least until january, if we had bought a couple of defenders i think everything would be fine and we would all be looking forward to the rest of the campaign, my feeling is that the right players for our club werent available for one reason or another, but i must say i do blame the manager and the chairman for not doing something about our defence sooner, that is the key area on the pitch, always has been and always will be until we start building a team from the back and not the front as we always do.

 

If the right players weren't available and we bought no-one defensively, does that mean that Sibierski was the right player for midfield? Because i doubt that very much. Lets stop making excuses for him, Roeder biffed it up.

 

Exactly.  No matter how you look at the defender/striker cock-up, the Sibierski signing was so obviously a last minute "anyone going spare?" conversation that Shepherd and Roeder have had with Willy McKay. As far as I'm aware we have wasted a fee on him, and we will be wasting several hundred thousand pound paying his wages over the course of the year.  Why add so unnecessarily to the wage bill?

 

One reason:  just to get SOMEBODY through the door.  That's the sort of incompetence we are dealing with here.  There is no football sense in this decision.  He was just cheap and it's someone to point at and say "look, we signed HIM."  Pathetic.

 

if McKay is indeed Sibierski's agent then i can't imagine that the situation was anything but that. it shows how backward our entire approach to transfers is. the backwardness stems from Roeder's naivety & lack of knowledge as well as Shepherd's predilection for cronyism. Other clubs, Pompey and Wigan for instance, picked up free transfer and loan targets on the last day that are vastly superior to Sibierski - Todorov (who has been in good form), Andy Cole and Douala.

 

I can't see Shepherd's approach ever changing, but Roeder has to learn from this. don't put all your eggs in one basket cos that leaves you desperate when your initial targets don't work out. try to get your signings done in good time. and have a back-up plan!

 

Don't think I've read such speculative rubbish since your last post.  You just make stuff up as you go along. Ignorant, tbh.