chicago_shearer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Giving Butt a new contract would be absolute madness. Souness had the right idea in shipping him off. It frustrates me that successive managers have refused to take this position seriously. Danny Guthrie has performed well, but he wasn't the sort of quality we needed. If you take a look at the options that good mid table sides above us in the table have in central midfield it is really sad. And embarrassing if we reward that sort of aging mediocrity with a new contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Don't think it's a huge coincidence that our two best performances of all out attacking, fluid football have come when Butt wasn't on the pitch. (West Brom home, Stoke home). Maybe its because they are the 2 shittest teams away from home in the league? That's probably one of a few contributing factors, aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Giving Butt a new contract would be absolute madness. Souness had the right idea in shipping him off. It frustrates me that successive managers have refused to take this position seriously. Danny Guthrie has performed well, but he wasn't the sort of quality we needed. If you take a look at the options that good mid table sides above us in the table have in central midfield it is really sad. And embarrassing if we reward that sort of aging mediocrity with a new contract. We could desperately do with a quality signing for the centre of the park, regardless of whether Butt stays or not. I do think Barton is good enough when he's actually available and in the right frame of mind and Guthrie and Butt are fine to play when necessary. We're still crying out for some power/athleticism in there, though, and have been since the mighty Amady Faye left us for pastures new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Giving Butt a new contract would be absolute madness. Souness had the right idea in shipping him off. It frustrates me that successive managers have refused to take this position seriously. Danny Guthrie has performed well, but he wasn't the sort of quality we needed. If you take a look at the options that good mid table sides above us in the table have in central midfield it is really sad. And embarrassing if we reward that sort of aging mediocrity with a new contract. We could desperately do with a quality signing for the centre of the park, regardless of whether Butt stays or not. I do think Barton is good enough when he's actually available and in the right frame of mind and Guthrie and Butt are fine to play when necessary. We're still crying out for some power/athleticism in there, though, and have been since the mighty Amady Faye left us for pastures new. Bring back Clarence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Changing our manager every season... thats never going to help you build a succesfull side, find the "one" and stick by your guns and supply him with the £ to build his team. Surely you have to twist until you find the right man rather sticking with someone because you want to give them time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ryunufc Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 tbh, when we were up by 2 we only need to pass the ball around their area instead we resort to long ball. the centre midfield have been a major concern but last week in my opinion was down to tactical decision, we release the ball way too early. even Given tried to get the ball quickly to Martins, whats the rush when we had good lead. im not a pro but is it too difficult to just maintain possesion in the middle of the park Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Giving Butt a new contract would be absolute madness. Souness had the right idea in shipping him off. It frustrates me that successive managers have refused to take this position seriously. Danny Guthrie has performed well, but he wasn't the sort of quality we needed. If you take a look at the options that good mid table sides above us in the table have in central midfield it is really sad. And embarrassing if we reward that sort of aging mediocrity with a new contract. partly correct. And partly indicative and a statement even, of the lower standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I'd have Geremi first-choice midfielder ahead of Butt & Guthrie every day of the week. He's nowt special, but alongside Barton I think he'd be the best bet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I'd have Geremi first-choice midfielder ahead of Butt & Guthrie every day of the week. He's nowt special, but alongside Barton I think he'd be the best bet. and that says everything doesn't it mate ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I'd have Geremi first-choice midfielder ahead of Butt & Guthrie every day of the week. He's nowt special, but alongside Barton I think he'd be the best bet. and that says everything doesn't it mate ? Yep it does, but when you've got two wingers you can get away with it. Pretty sure in our first season in the Premiership we didn't really have a creative central-midfielder (Clark & Bracewell/Venison wasn't it?) until Lee switched to centre-mid when we signed Fox, but because we had Sellars one side, Lee the other, we played some exciting football and Beardsley & Cole scored loads. With N'Zogbia one side, Gutierrez the other, and two from Viduka, Owen & Martins up front I don't see why that system can't be repeated. Particularly when Barton is back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hope those who wanted to ship Barton out realise what a catastrophic mistake that would have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hope those who wanted to ship Barton out realise what a catastrophic mistake that would have been. In footballing terms yes, but you can see why people within the club might have not wanted him associated with the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 What makes a side tick in the successful teams - or cough and splutter in clapped out vehicles like ours at present? Watching us fail to move the ball beyond the halfway line all season without resorting to the long ball, the problems aren't the defenders as all the pundits seem to think, but the central midfielders in my view. Barton and Butt were given the honours yesterday, and between them they took it in turns to pass to the opposition, lose the ball under the slightest pressure and fail to move off the ball to create some space for others. Watching their counterparts in proper football teams like Man U, Liverpool or Chelsea it's like watching a different game. This is the area that has to be addressed if we are going to start looking like a football team again. In the short term the answer might be to lose a forward like Smith who has little impact anyway, and play an extra midfielder like Emre. In the long term none of the current central midfielders are good enough and we need heavy investment next season. Have said this all along - the midfield is the heart of any side, and the NUFC model needs a transplant, and quickly, or the patient will expire.. There isn't ONE player in central midfield who would get into any of the sides in the Top 10 of the Prem, and quite a few lower down too. In the midfield area, we are already a Championship side, with only N'Zogbia & Jonas having anything like the required skills for a Prem midfield. The lack of movement off the ball & passing accuracy is dire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Thing is, Newcastle are hardly alone in a frustrating style of play. We're apparently going for European qualification but our style is terrible, just pumping it upfield far too many times without thinking about it. Only the top 4 (well, Liverpool when Gerrard is in the team) plus Villa seem to be able to move the ball with any sort of confidence in central midfield, on a constant basis. I just don't understand it really, surely it isn't that hard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Thing is, Newcastle are hardly alone in a frustrating style of play. We're apparently going for European qualification but our style is terrible, just pumping it upfield far too many times without thinking about it. Only the top 4 (well, Liverpool when Gerrard is in the team) plus Villa seem to be able to move the ball with any sort of confidence in central midfield, on a constant basis. I just don't understand it really, surely it isn't that hard? Everton can be horrendous to watch at times. I think I should like them because they have players I like (Arteta, Pienaar, Osman) and three Nigeria internationals (would have had another if not for work permit nonsense too), but your style of play is incredibly bad sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hope those who wanted to ship Barton out realise what a catastrophic mistake that would have been. Bit soon to be saying that after he's played 3 full games this season... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Thing is, Newcastle are hardly alone in a frustrating style of play. We're apparently going for European qualification but our style is terrible, just pumping it upfield far too many times without thinking about it. Only the top 4 (well, Liverpool when Gerrard is in the team) plus Villa seem to be able to move the ball with any sort of confidence in central midfield, on a constant basis. I just don't understand it really, surely it isn't that hard? Everton can be horrendous to watch at times. I think I should like them because they have players I like (Arteta, Pienaar, Osman) and three Nigeria internationals (would have had another if not for work permit nonsense too), but your style of play is incredibly bad sometimes. Yup, and I don't like it at all. But, who am I to complain? 6th and 5th in the last 2 seasons, why change it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Thing is, Newcastle are hardly alone in a frustrating style of play. We're apparently going for European qualification but our style is terrible, just pumping it upfield far too many times without thinking about it. Only the top 4 (well, Liverpool when Gerrard is in the team) plus Villa seem to be able to move the ball with any sort of confidence in central midfield, on a constant basis. I just don't understand it really, surely it isn't that hard? Everton can be horrendous to watch at times. I think I should like them because they have players I like (Arteta, Pienaar, Osman) and three Nigeria internationals (would have had another if not for work permit nonsense too), but your style of play is incredibly bad sometimes. It's because, like us, they have a collection of poor footballers in the centre of the park. They frequently start Arteta, who is probably still their best football player, out wide. They then play the likes of Osman and Fellani in the middle, the latter of which has potential but is still finding his feet in the league. You then have Cahill dropping back to support, effective in the box? Yes, influential elsewhere? No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hope those who wanted to ship Barton out realise what a catastrophic mistake that would have been. Bit soon to be saying that after he's played 3 full games this season... Am I not right in saying we won 2 of them? Just watching him you can tell he's leaps better than what we have and would walk in tomorrow if fit. He can pass forward tidies up and can put a tackle in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Thing is, Newcastle are hardly alone in a frustrating style of play. We're apparently going for European qualification but our style is terrible, just pumping it upfield far too many times without thinking about it. Only the top 4 (well, Liverpool when Gerrard is in the team) plus Villa seem to be able to move the ball with any sort of confidence in central midfield, on a constant basis. I just don't understand it really, surely it isn't that hard? Everton can be horrendous to watch at times. I think I should like them because they have players I like (Arteta, Pienaar, Osman) and three Nigeria internationals (would have had another if not for work permit nonsense too), but your style of play is incredibly bad sometimes. I have never really liked Everton's style of football but it's effective and makes the best use of the players they've got. I'd much rather be like that than try to play football with substandard players or do what Allardyce did and try and impose the long ball game on players who were bought to play passing football. The point regarding Butt is, yes he is a decent squad player but IMO it's better to get rid altogether. Firstly, because he is a 'name' he will never be treated as a squad player and he will always be preferred to younger options by every incoming manager like JFK. Secondly, he won't accept being on the bench in any case so it's a non-starter. If we are going to offer him a new contract it should be a crap offer which will reflect the fact he is seen as a squad player only, or better still let him leave, and buy a quality young centre midfielder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hope those who wanted to ship Barton out realise what a catastrophic mistake that would have been. Bit soon to be saying that after he's played 3 full games this season... Am I not right in saying we won 2 of them? Just watching him you can tell he's leaps better than what we have and would walk in tomorrow if fit. He can pass forward tidies up and can put a tackle in. I don't disagree that he's our best central midfielder, but he's still hardly been value for money, has he? To say, right here and now, that selling him would have been a "catastrophic mistake" is an overexaggeration of catastrophic proportions! He's no use to us when he's injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezeri Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's central midfielders job to protect the back4 and not allow them to be put under pressure! I think Barton and Guthrie(as a backup) can do the job but Butt should be shifted away ASAP. For so long we've been yelling for a creative midfielder and this should be our absolute priority in January. Cahill, Montolivo, Kuzmanovic, Borowski, Källström just a few to mention. A player of their caliber would do a great job alongside Barton IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Dont know if this has already been posted? http://www.goal.com/en/news/724/premier-league/2008/12/10/1005207/wigan-athletic-approach-newcastle-for-nicky-butt-report interesting.....sell sell sell or give give give! know we dont have much debts in that department....but go all in at the jan. window....we can easily replace him even for little money! Our central midfield has been our biggest problem for long long time. We need a strong def. central midfielder....some one like Chr. Poulsen or yaya toure and an att. central midfielder like Diego! If we spend up to 20 mill pund on 2-3 central midfielders....we would actually have a chance to move up the table which is quiet even this year. Our defence have proved good enough (just need cover on LB and RB) and so is our attack if only they get the supply (not long balls) We dont have any threat from midfield at all...maybe Zog....but he havent really produced anything for a long time. We should play him week in week out (then i believe he could be good) if not sell course he´ll only stay if he plays every week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hope those who wanted to ship Barton out realise what a catastrophic mistake that would have been. Bit soon to be saying that after he's played 3 full games this season... Am I not right in saying we won 2 of them? Just watching him you can tell he's leaps better than what we have and would walk in tomorrow if fit. He can pass forward tidies up and can put a tackle in. I don't disagree that he's our best central midfielder, but he's still hardly been value for money, has he? To say, right here and now, that selling him would have been a "catastrophic mistake" is an overexaggeration of catastrophic proportions! He's no use to us when he's injured. Assuming he stays fit fro January he will be a big player for us this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It'll be 2009 by the time he gets back... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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