Obafemi Martins

[Ronaldo]

honestly, I cannot believe how many critics Oba has

 

Anyone would think Martins had scored 1 goal in 12 this season, not 6. Which is tbh a pretty impressive achievement considering the team, his strike partners and the clueless tactics

[johnnypd]

silly to say he hasnt improved, when he first arrived he very much played straight down the middle. his movement has came on immeasureably since he's been here, in particular how he works the channels out wide and can find players with a cross or ball squared across the box. sadly we've not really had the players on the pitch to take advantage of Martins' pace (other than maybe Owen) but it still makes him our most important player.

 

regarding Berbatov, i'd love to see Martins paired with a player like that, someone who helps drag players out of position to open up space, but who can also slip a divine pass through a crowded area to set him free. At the moment the one player who does the former for Martins is Jonas and, while they have dovetailed well on occasion, we havent seen enough of them together. The one player we have who can do the latter is Geremi and JFK rates Butt ahead of him.

[Guest Heneage]

Best striker at the club simple as that.

[fredbob]

I said this a while back - Martins is far from being aesthetically pleasing, but he;s fucking effective. He'll never be classed as a "great" player no matter how many goals or assists he gets bcasue quite frankly he doesnt have the formiddible techinique that alot of class strikers posses.

 

If i remeber correctly, his contributions of goals in terms of assists and goals are very very close to Owens. I.e. 1 in 2.

 

Id rather have the most technically deficient striker in the world who contributes 20 goals a season than a technically sound one who doesnt contirbute half as much.

[KaKa]

honestly, I cannot believe how many critics Oba has

 

Anyone would think Martins had scored 1 goal in 12 this season, not 6. Which is tbh a pretty impressive achievement considering the team, his strike partners and the clueless tactics

 

Well he'll be out for a couple of weeks and we'll see how things pan out without him. Will soon shut people up.

 

Don't know what you've got till it's gone pretty much.

[merlin]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

[Syrette]

he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Please don't start on about his age again, even as a joke. It's tedious.

[Neil]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

You say NUFC need better. In what context, i.e. realistic achievements and targets, do you mean?

 

You could do with better. But then you, Everton, and loads of clubs 'could do' with better players. He's your best forward.

[KaKa]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

You say NUFC need better. In what context, i.e. realistic achievements and targets, do you mean?

 

You could do with better. But then you, Everton, and loads of clubs 'could do' with better players. He's your best forward.

 

I've talked to quite a few other fans about this and the player on our team they are most nervous about when we play them is always Martins.

 

Very interesting that.

[fredbob]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

[Neil]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

You say NUFC need better. In what context, i.e. realistic achievements and targets, do you mean?

 

You could do with better. But then you, Everton, and loads of clubs 'could do' with better players. He's your best forward.

 

I've talked to quite a few other fans about this and the player on our team they are most nervous about when we play them is always Martins.

 

Very interesting that.

 

Yep. If his own teammates doesn't know what he's about to do, then the opposition sure as hell doesn't.

 

It's the factor of pace. It's increasingly important in today's game and, despite his flaws, if you have someone who can stretch defenders, you've won half the battle.

 

I'd be interested to see some stats to do with his shots/shots on target/chance conversion, etc.

[johnnypd]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

alan smith is the perfect example for your list of players. can control a ball decently, can make a rudimentary pass and do everything else to a perfectly workmanlike manner. but he's fucking terrible all the same and when it comes to having the cutting edge you need to be a danger to the opposition and an aid to your team, he simply does not have it. at all. whereas Martins, despite all his flaws, has that in spades.

 

we may well need better than Martins in the future, but atm he is our most important, and perhaps best, player, so i'd prefer we start replacing players elsewhere, or getting someone in to play alongside him if (when) Owen leaves.

[Shearer9]

I know the debate has moved on a little bit, but Berbatov would not be good in our team.  He's a class player, but he needs other good players around him and he's not pacy.  I'd pick Martins ahead of him every time, simply because Martins gives our team that edge.  So does Jonas, and if we go for a central midfielder this window I hope it's somebody with pace(ideally an upgrade on Dyer without the horrific injury record)

[merlin]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

You say NUFC need better. In what context, i.e. realistic achievements and targets, do you mean?

 

You could do with better. But then you, Everton, and loads of clubs 'could do' with better players. He's your best forward.

 

In YOUR opinion, maybe - not in mine...

[merlin]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

Can you quote me the last 5 assists he has DIRECTLY made i.e., his cross/pass led to a goal - I am interested to see when and against whom they occurred...and you are right - the players you quoted ARE ropey examples when it comes to putting the ball into the net ; if you mean CHRIS Sutton, his best season was playing alongside one Alan Shearer at Blackburn when said AS was at his best..something of a help, wouldn't you say..!!??

[merlin]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

Further to my last posting on this comment, if you look at his stats on Wikipedia from both his time with Inter AND NUFC, you will find that the ONLY season he has, TO DATE, managed a ratio of 1 goal in 2 appearances, is THIS ONE(6 goals in 12 apps)...

His average over the rest of the seasons is between 1 goal every 3 games, and 1 in 4, which, if you want to start quoting stats, means that over a 38 game season, he would average about 12 goals...

You STILL think that's as good as Owen's average , or, more to the point, do you think its good enough for a CF in a team where midfielders hardly score at all..!??

[fredbob]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

Can you quote me the last 5 assists he has DIRECTLY made i.e., his cross/pass led to a goal - I am interested to see when and against whom they occurred...and you are right - the players you quoted ARE ropey examples when it comes to putting the ball into the net ; if you mean CHRIS Sutton, his best season was playing alongside one Alan Shearer at Blackburn when said AS was at his best..something of a help, wouldn't you say..!!??

 

Well, no i cant tell you the last 5 assists he made directly - that isnt just what an assisst is, Im not saying he's a creative player, or has craft, but he'll get into positions positions which leads to goals, he's already responsilbe for something like 48 goals in 101 odd appearence - inclding assissts. The point is, would someone like Alan Smith get in those positions, its a subjective question, but a question that doesnt need answering becasue we already have a striker who does get in those positions, Martins.

 

And yes, you're right about some of the examples being ropey - i told you they were in the first place but still, you're right never the less. Would you like me to give to a list of technically sound players who would struggleto put the ball in the net or be directly involved in a team goal?

 

I have to say though, Im pretty confident.

 

 

Further to my last posting on this comment, if you look at his stats on Wikipedia from both his time with Inter AND NUFC, you will find that the ONLY season he has, TO DATE, managed a ratio of 1 goal in 2 appearances, is THIS ONE(6 goals in 12 apps)...

His average over the rest of the seasons is between 1 goal every 3 games, and 1 in 4, which, if you want to start quoting stats, means that over a 38 game season, he would average about 12 goals...

You STILL think that's as good as Owen's average , or, more to the point, do you think its good enough for a CF in a team where midfielders hardly score at all..!??

 

Two things about this, one is that we have only seen him play consistenly in one full seaosn, under a terrible team with Roeder at the helm, he still managed 17, last season was a wqrite off with Allardyce who didnt rate him and he was incredibly important in our run at the end of last season where he put away a few.

 

This season has been his first season of pretty much uniteruppted first team play, he;s played consitenly and is currently ona 1 in 2 ratio, with Kinnear at the helm...

 

The second point is that his contribution shouldnt be just limited to goals scored, some one pointed out that Rooney was a 1 in 3 striker but when you count his contributions in terms of assists it effectively makes him a 1 in 2 striker, maybe even better. As ive already pointed out, Martins has contributed something like 48 goals in 101 games including assists.

 

The place i get my stats from is in german. This is the link to his set of stats.

 

http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/spieler/5794/obafemi-martins/default/2008/leistungsdaten.html

 

 

[Guest Edd]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.

 

I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2.  And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)

 

Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa.  Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here.  The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.

 

Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that.  Best partner Owen has ever had.

 

And finally Sutton.  A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league.  Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.

 

Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.

 

 

Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor.  Understandable.  Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.

[fredbob]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.

 

I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2.  And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)

 

Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa.  Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here.  The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.

 

Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that.  Best partner Owen has ever had.

 

And finally Sutton.   A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league.  Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.

 

Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.

 

 

Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor.  Understandable.  Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.

 

Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins.  I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.

 

He just has the knack.

[Guest Edd]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.

 

I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2.  And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)

 

Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa.  Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here.  The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.

 

Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that.  Best partner Owen has ever had.

 

And finally Sutton.   A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league.  Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.

 

Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.

 

 

Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor.  Understandable.  Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.

 

Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins.  I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.

 

He just has the knack.

Forlan is the only one who doesn't have a goalscoring record comparable with Martins in the Prem, but like I said his goal average in Spain, a league of comparable standards, wipes the floor with Martins.  Who knows why it didn't work out for Forlan in England.

 

Martins isn't a bad player, as I said previously, we just rate him higher because we are so average and he's not alone in that.  For all the players we have that get constant stick, there are several distinctly average players that are overrated by some fans.

[fredbob]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc. (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.

 

I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2. And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)

 

Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa. Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here. The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.

 

Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that. Best partner Owen has ever had.

 

And finally Sutton. A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league. Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.

 

Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.

 

 

Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor. Understandable. Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.

 

Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins. I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.

 

He just has the knack.

Forlan is the only one who doesn't have a goalscoring record comparable with Martins in the Prem, but like I said his goal average in Spain, a league of comparable standards, wipes the floor with Martins. Who knows why it didn't work out for Forlan in England.

 

Martins isn't a bad player, as I said previously, we just rate him higher because we are so average and he's not alone in that. For all the players we have that get constant stick, there are several distinctly average players that are overrated by some fans.

 

I dont think we do rate him higher, i actually dont think we consider his actual input into a game which should include assists. The strange thing is that the majority of fans will say Owen is one of the prems top strikers, i agree, but his contribution to the nufc team is almost identical to Martins in term of team goals.

 

Martins suffers from the illusion that he;s a bad player becasue of his many flaws, its a strnge one becasue at the end of the day he's one of our most effective players. As effective as Owen, the stats mirror this as well.

 

This 1 in 2 is a massive red herring.

[Guest Edd]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.

 

I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2.  And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)

 

Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa.  Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here.  The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.

 

Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that.  Best partner Owen has ever had.

 

And finally Sutton.   A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league.  Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.

 

Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.

 

 

Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor.  Understandable.  Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.

 

Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins.  I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.

 

He just has the knack.

Forlan is the only one who doesn't have a goalscoring record comparable with Martins in the Prem, but like I said his goal average in Spain, a league of comparable standards, wipes the floor with Martins.  Who knows why it didn't work out for Forlan in England.

 

Martins isn't a bad player, as I said previously, we just rate him higher because we are so average and he's not alone in that.  For all the players we have that get constant stick, there are several distinctly average players that are overrated by some fans.

 

I dont think we do rate him higher, i actually dont think we consider his actual input into a game which should include assists. The strange thing is that the majority of fans will say Owen is one of the prems top strikers, i agree, but his contribution to the nufc team is almost identical to Martins in term of team goals.

 

Martins suffers from the illusion that he;s a bad player becasue of his many flaws, its a strnge one becasue at the end of the day he's one of our most effective players. As effective as Owen, the stats mirror this as well.

 

This 1 in 2 is a massive red herring.

Yeah putting the ball in the back of the net is overrated as well.  Let's not change the subject and turn this into another Martins vs Owen debate.

 

I took issue with you saying this:

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.

....when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

Ridiculous statement.

[TêteDeMaure]

Martins is our best striker.

 

Martins is our most valuble player.

 

[tmonkey]

Martins is like Viagra to the current team. Without him, our attack is limp, slow, and never looks like scoring.

[fredbob]

I've made my views about Martins plain in the past, as have most posters, so I'm not going over it all again.

 

Will simply point out his plus/minus points;-

 

Pluses - Pace, powerful shot, enthusiasm and good jumping ability for a small forward.

Minuses - Erratic distribution, plays without awareness, erratic shooting, lack of intelligent movement.

 

Will he score enough goals to be classed a really top Prem forward ? NO - 15 p.a. average, if that.

Will he improve on his weaknesses? No sign of that, and he is at least 24 now, maybe much older.

 

Would I swap him for Berbatov ? Only if Owen was staying, because I think Berbatov would be a great foil for Owen, but if Owen is going, we need Martins' pace - we have little enough is the whole side without losing any more - but Berbatov is by far the better player technically.

 

Martins is not by any means the worst forward in the Prem but he is far from the best, and we need better; unfortunately, NUFC are not likely to GET any better ones for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much highlights my post perfectly. This massive misconception about Martins and his lack of technical ability not making him a great striker. If Martins scrapes to 15 goals as you say, i can almost guarantee you he'd contribute another 5 goals in assist. At the end of the day, team goals a the only goals that count and if Martins has directly contributed to 20 goals in a season. in automatically puts him into the group of top strikers.

 

He'll of effectively of contributed exactly the same amount of goals as Michael Owen will have. The only difference is becasue Owen has such a good record and seems technically sound he can get away with it more than some likes Martins who infuritaing game play often overshadows his overall contribution.

 

He may be one of the worst of the bunch, but he'd definitely be up there.

 

For me, when it comes to those 90 minutes over the course of a season, Martins is equal to Owen in terms of contibutions to the team.

 

I could name so many strikers over the years who are technically proficaient but when it comes to contribution to the team have little input.

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.  (maybe some ropey examples at the moment but the list could go on and on) all you could say are technically better than martins, they have the touch, they have the passiing ablity, the hold up play and link up play, but when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

That's just wrong on so many levels. If you want to make Martins look good then at least compare him to lesser players.

 

I assume you mention Forlan because he was a flop at ManU, but his goalscoring record everywhere else he has played is better than 1 in 2.  And with 4 seasons in La Liga that's a fantastic record. (and you'll be hard pressed to find a harder working forward)

 

Everyone says Milosevic flopped at Villa.  Maybe, but his goalscoring record in his first 2 seasons was almost identical to Martins here.  The reason Savo disappointed so much was because he went to Villa with a record of almost a goal a game.

 

Heskey might not be able to match Martins for goals (although he's not far behind) but he brings so much more to a team than that.  Best partner Owen has ever had.

 

And finally Sutton.   A player that scored 25 league goals in one season for Norwich (slightly better than Martins) before going to Blackburn and playing a major part in them winning the league.  Yes he might have been crap for one season at Chelsea but his career record is still better than 1 in 3.

 

Marcus Bent I'll give you isn't a match for Martins, but if saying he's better than an average journeyman that nobody rates is the best we can do then we have serious problems.

 

 

Martins is generally overrated because we are so poor.  Understandable.  Yes he might be important to us, but don't compare him to some players who have at times been in a different class.

 

Well hold on, its the premiership that counts surely? Like i said the examples are ropey but i could mentions plenty more, in fact im confident that i could mentions far more flops and technically proficient strikers who dont have scoring and contriution records similiar to Martins.  I compared him to players of goosd standards on purpose, the point being that whilst others who are considered technically superior i.e Forlan havent succeeded in the same why that Martins has.

 

He just has the knack.

Forlan is the only one who doesn't have a goalscoring record comparable with Martins in the Prem, but like I said his goal average in Spain, a league of comparable standards, wipes the floor with Martins.  Who knows why it didn't work out for Forlan in England.

 

Martins isn't a bad player, as I said previously, we just rate him higher because we are so average and he's not alone in that.  For all the players we have that get constant stick, there are several distinctly average players that are overrated by some fans.

 

I dont think we do rate him higher, i actually dont think we consider his actual input into a game which should include assists. The strange thing is that the majority of fans will say Owen is one of the prems top strikers, i agree, but his contribution to the nufc team is almost identical to Martins in term of team goals.

 

Martins suffers from the illusion that he;s a bad player becasue of his many flaws, its a strnge one becasue at the end of the day he's one of our most effective players. As effective as Owen, the stats mirror this as well.

 

This 1 in 2 is a massive red herring.

Yeah putting the ball in the back of the net is overrated as well.  Let's not change the subject and turn this into another Martins vs Owen debate.

 

I took issue with you saying this:

 

Forlan, Milosevic, Heskey (at times), Marcus Bent, Sutton etc etc.

....when it comes to putting the ball in the back of the net, or making a noticebal contribution to the team, none have been as consitenly as good as Martins has been so far.

 

Ridiculous statement.

 

Not really, and to be fair to me I did say they were ropey, are you actually implying that what im saying is fundamentally wrong? Or are you just picking faults with my examples? Im sure i could name you many better examples which make your point moot in the first place. Would you like me to do that?

 

This isnt a Martins vs Owen debate - all im saying is that when you count assists as goals then effectively Martins stats are equal to Owen, but he doesnt get the recoginition he deserves becasue of the technical flaws in his game.