The prostitutes of football

[Yorkie]

I honestly don't think even NM agrees with NM.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

What do you say to football fans who aren't living in England at all?  There are such people, some of whom may even follow clubs like Newcastle rather than one of the "glory" teams like Arsenal, ManUre and Chelski.  Some credit to them for not going that easy route, eh?  Or are you saying that no Australian should like the EPL, nor an American, nor a Canadian nor anyone else from outside of England?  That seems very short-sighted and provincial to my mind.

 

I admit, there's not an ounce of Geordie in me.  Then again, as I've admitted before (and been told to f*** off, if you can't tell, I don't listen) Newcastle aren't my first team.  I don't know why I've always felt an affinity for Newcastle -- they've been my "second team" since I started following football.  I'm actually one of those "plastic" fans of Liverpool by most of the measures on here.  I'm from York (would YOU want to follow York City?  Honestly?  Been to the matches years ago when I still lived in Heslington but it's Conference now), even went to university in York -- who then should I follow?  I'm a fan of Liverpool because of family tradition (Dad, grandad, etc.), so, as I said, I guess I'm one of those "plastic" fans by measures on here.  Why does it make me less of a genuine fan, even going through the relatively rotten 1990s, because I was not living in Liverpool?  What club "should" I have supported then?  The closest was Middlesbrough or Leeds, but I never had any connection to those places or the clubs (except a grandmother born in Normanton, W. Yorks, sort of near Leeds). 

 

Even worse, I've not attended a match in too many years -- since I moved to America and have been banished from the world of proper football.  Does this discount me entirely as a fan, because my job has taken me to another country and I can not reasonably attend matches?

 

To me, a plastic fan is what Americans call "fair weather fans" -- the ones who gladly follow a club through the good years, but disappear when the team is less successful.  An American will tell you it's impossible for any fan of the Chicago Cubs (baseball) for instance to be plastic because Chicago haven't won the championship since 1908, or anything at all since 1946.  But it's easy for people who aren't anywhere near New York to claim to be Yankees fans, because the Yankees win a lot.  For me, this correlates to the fact that many claim to be fans of clubs like ManUre, Arseholes and Chelski (and yes, even Liverpool) because of recent successes -- it's much harder to say there is such a thing as a "plastic" Newcastle United fan.  Those who are still supporting the club at this point, can hardly be called plastic, regardless of where they may be from, or where they currently live.  My neice is 16 months old, and already has a little Liverpool kit (my brother and I were red from a similar age).  When she's grown, she'll be a Liverpool fan despite living nowhere near that city.  But she'll have been raised from the cradle to support that club.  I don't see how she will be any less genuine of a fan than anyone else.  And yes, the family has already planned a few outtings to Anfield and/or the new Stanley Park stadium for her.

[madras]

I'm actually one of those "plastic" fans of Liverpool by most of the measures on here.  I'm from York (would YOU want to follow York City?  Honestly?  Been to the matches years ago when I still lived in Heslington but it's Conference now), even went to university in York -- who then should I follow?  I'm a fan of Liverpool because of family tradition (Dad, grandad, etc.), so, as I said, I guess I'm one of those "plastic" fans by measures on here.

 

 

1) i didnt really get the choice

2(if you follow liverpool through family tradition then good for you.

 

if, however you chose liverpool over york through glory then you ar doomed to dantes 6th level of hell (everlasting life with mackems)

[oldtype]

Let's be honest, proximity to a clubs isn't really a good enough reason to support them. There is a big difference between supporting your local Division 1 or Division 2 team, and supporting your closest big club.

 

Should someone living in Darlington be castigated for picking Newcastle over Darlington, or should those living in the Wirrel be forced to go to Tranmere vs Leyton Orient instead of Liverpool vs Everton? 

 

I see no reason why people can't follow their local BIG (let's say EPL or Championship) club, even if there is a small club (League 1 or 2) 10 miles closer etc.  There's a lot more to it than location.  Stadiums and game day experience is much better, what about the standard of play, do they play on nice grass or clogging mud. What about the TV/Newspaper coverage?  Good players, Poster boys for the kids vs some part time plumber hoofing the ball up field instead of playing a pass. There are plenty of reasons to pick a big/popular team......but you only get to pick once.  Then you have to have loyalty.

 

The problem is really with the fans that don't have the staying power to live through the bad times.  Those that switched from Man U to Chelsea in 2005 when the Man U were struggling (aye - 3rd/4th is really struggling).  And those new Chelsea fans that

are putting their Blue shirts back in the closet and digging out their Red shirts again.

 

The earlier poster was right.......until you have tasted the depths of despair with your team, you cannot possible fully appreciate the exquisite sweetness of victory. 

yes and yes.

 

 

you see,the reason those clubs rarely get bigger and make it to the championship is through lack of funds ie money/people through the gate,when often there are enough football supporters in the area to support a far bigger club.(it would also mean the already bigger clubs would have fewer supporters and would even the whole thing up a bit)

 

That's a nice romantic idea, but just never going to happen.  Big clubs are big clubs and will use their TV exposure and status to stay big.  And the lower rungs will always be just that. The facilities and the product they offer just can't change that appeal.  Only a few Big clubs will fall (Leeds etc) and only a few small clubs will rise (Reading etc), the rest will bob along in the division that suits them best with only a few surprise Yo-Yo's.

 

To use an americanism.....some are major league, and some are minor league. For the most part, this will never change.

 

But I think the issue was not why someone picked a Big Club to support over a small club.  It's not even why they picked a club at the other end of the country just because they are winning. It's about them only having the connection because of the winning, and not a deep enough connection to survive a period when the winning ceases and suddenly other clubs are better looking.

 

I agree, the idea is romantic but highly unrealistic. How far are you willing to go with this idea?

 

Darlington or Hartlepool alright, but should people from Blyth not be allowed to follow Newcastle then?

 

How about Gateshead? I imagine a significant amount of "local" supporters are actually from there. Are they to be condemned for not piling into the International Stadium?

 

Hell, if you were born closer to Kingston Park than SJP, how dare you support NUFC instead of going to Newcastle Blue Star games?

as in exiled's post you have major and minor league..we have league and non-league.

 

 

it's not a plan,i'm not going to make it a law (though if i could!)

 

do you not think if folk from cambridge supported cambridge and not arsenal football would be better off and those people might feel better about themselves and the game ?

 

before you start when i got engaged to NUFC we were lower top division enigmatics,when we were married (when i started travelling away and going to games without my dad) we were lower 2nd league trash surviving on history and bravado

 

Again, it would be better for the game but it's not realistic. It's just hard for people to get thrills out of supporting a team that will realistically never get to the top flight.

 

The dividng line of league/non-league seems meaningless to me. Just because a team is in League 1/2 doesn't mean a bit of support will give them a realistic chance of ever getting into the Premiership. If anything, the gap between the top flight and League 1 is far larger than that of League 1 and the non-league.

 

Moreover, you still get a lot of awkward situations even if you accept the league/non-league divide. Should everyone in Manchester who supports Man United despite living closer to the CoMS be condemned?

 

As for yourself, can you honestly say that you would've still supported Newcastle if.. say, Blyth Spartans were in the Premiership at the exact same time?

 

 

[madras]

i've alrerady said who can say if for example nufc were in div 3 and the mackems were in the prem how would the lads from rothbury etc fall.

 

 

what i've been hitting at all along...if you care to look....is ,youngdters from colchester,stockport,chesterfield,wrexham,and suchlike always survived on homebase...now they cant cos of localfans who'd much rather follow man utd on sky......happy with that ?

[Gash]

Glory seeking with Newcastle is like going with the prostitute and then finding out she has syphillis.

na......glory seeking with newcastle is like knowing the prostitute has syphilis,then following though on the deal

mackems.gif

[Guest rebel_yell12]

I agree with you madras.  When I was living in Heslington (just outside York), my family and I would go to York City matches even if the football on show there was not exactly the highest quality -- my dad insisted we go see and support the local lads, even if our more vocal support (and our kits, etc.) were all Liverpool which was Dad's true love and thus my brother's and mine as well (trips to Anfield were fairly rare, and expensive).  I didn't understand really at the time, but I do now.  The small clubs only survive because of local support and attendance, and some of the small clubs help filter through talent to the top clubs as well as providing entertainment and a bit of local pride for smaller cities/towns.  

 

[Mowen]

I actually agree with NM to a point. Sure if you have Geordie blood in you or have some kind of personal link to the area, by all means follow Newcastle United. But I've never been able to understand why someone say from Carlisle who has no ties whatsoever to Newcastle, would choose to follow any team but Carlisle. That said, it doesn't make people a lesser fan or anything like that if they do happen to come from Carlisle but support Newcastle. The saddest thing for me is that for many local clubs they will have lost generations of fans and you can see a day when half of them simply disappear. That says more about the world we live in more than the game itself btw, although the two are interlinked.

 

I don't care what anyone says, a Carlisle born Newcastle supporter can never truly feel the way a Geordie does where his/her football team is concerned because a football club, especially in places like Newcastle, is more than a football club, it's more a local pride thing.

 

For example, when we play Sunderland, has fuck all to do with football really. On such days, you're missing out if you are not from Newcastle or connected to the place somehow, and that's a huge part of the game.

 

 

 

Didn't you wait until you were about 16 before you decided to support Newcastle though?

[timinperu]

I cannot believe the small minded people who castigate others for supporting their team because they do not come from the hinterland of the club. Like it or not Premier League football is a global enterprise and as such it is imperative that the ton attract and hold on to as many 'foreign/southern' fans as possible. These wil only add to the revenue of the club and help build for success. Expansion is our answer and we should welcome all new fans with open arms as they help provide a financial base for the club.

 

The arguement of only supporting your local club is facile in that many people today are locationally mobile, as the worlds job markets have opened up. Once you are a supporter you remain that way through thick and thin (usually very thin). When we move do we stop supporting our team and support the local team instead?

 

I moved to the toon at the age of eight (I still support passionately my first ever team - Aldershot), but twenty years of living in the North East makes it impossible to not support the toon too with a passion. And by the way I have also lived in Zambia where I was a season ticket holder of Power Dynamoes, and was also had a box in Lima to watch the mighty La U (Universatario). It is possible to support other teams and also live outside the region and support the toon.

 

 

[Guest alex]

I actually agree with NM to a point. Sure if you have Geordie blood in you or have some kind of personal link to the area, by all means follow Newcastle United. But I've never been able to understand why someone say from Carlisle who has no ties whatsoever to Newcastle, would choose to follow any team but Carlisle. That said, it doesn't make people a lesser fan or anything like that if they do happen to come from Carlisle but support Newcastle. The saddest thing for me is that for many local clubs they will have lost generations of fans and you can see a day when half of them simply disappear. That says more about the world we live in more than the game itself btw, although the two are interlinked.

 

I don't care what anyone says, a Carlisle born Newcastle supporter can never truly feel the way a Geordie does where his/her football team is concerned because a football club, especially in places like Newcastle, is more than a football club, it's more a local pride thing.

 

For example, when we play Sunderland, has fuck all to do with football really. On such days, you're missing out if you are not from Newcastle or connected to the place somehow, and that's a huge part of the game.

 

 

 

Didn't you wait until you were about 16 before you decided to support Newcastle though?

I was just going to say. What a plonker. Packs in going to the games when the going gets tough too. Talks a canny game like

[ChezGiven]

You've got to realise that people like NM dont want us to be a top 4 club really. They prefer us to be a non-descript mid-table club so 1) we dont attain an international fan base and 2) because he'd have fuck all to whinge about.

[madras]

You've got to realise that people like NM dont want us to be a top 4 club really. They prefer us to be a non-descript mid-table club so 1) we dont attain an international fan base and 2) because he'd have f*** all to whinge about.

oh he'd find something,stripes in the wrong order or somesuch

[Dave]

You've got to realise that people like NM dont want us to be a top 4 club really. They prefer us to be a non-descript mid-table club so 1) we dont attain an international fan base and 2) because he'd have fuck all to whinge about.

 

Hahaha, you said we are a top four club. I'm going to bring that up in future posts and pretend that everyone believes it.

[Guest Knightrider]

I actually agree with NM to a point. Sure if you have Geordie blood in you or have some kind of personal link to the area, by all means follow Newcastle United. But I've never been able to understand why someone say from Carlisle who has no ties whatsoever to Newcastle, would choose to follow any team but Carlisle. That said, it doesn't make people a lesser fan or anything like that if they do happen to come from Carlisle but support Newcastle. The saddest thing for me is that for many local clubs they will have lost generations of fans and you can see a day when half of them simply disappear. That says more about the world we live in more than the game itself btw, although the two are interlinked.

 

I don't care what anyone says, a Carlisle born Newcastle supporter can never truly feel the way a Geordie does where his/her football team is concerned because a football club, especially in places like Newcastle, is more than a football club, it's more a local pride thing.

 

For example, when we play Sunderland, has fuck all to do with football really. On such days, you're missing out if you are not from Newcastle or connected to the place somehow, and that's a huge part of the game.

 

 

 

Didn't you wait until you were about 16 before you decided to support Newcastle though?

 

Was 11 I think, and I am not ashamed to admit that it was 'Keegan Mania' and not NUFC that gave me the bug. Not that the age I started to support the club is relevant like. I just wasn't interested in football at all from birth to those years for some reason, despite a Toon daft fatha and knowing full well that NUFC existed and what it meant to people. I never quite understood my dad's fixation with this thing he would curse at every saturday whether it be listening to the radio, watching the vidi-printer or coming home from the match. I hated playing football and I hated watching it too. Again, I never saw the fascination. When KK returned as manager however, you couldn't escape from it as it was so big and overwhelming. It was like the flue, you were bound to catch it at some point and I did, hook line and sinker.

[Benwell Lad]

Does there come a point where football ceases to function as a realistic sport as these "prostitute" clubs totally dominate their national leagues and in turn European and international competition ?

 

Already clubs like Manchester United seem to be favoured by the powers that be at FA and PL levels.

On Saturday, even as they totally outclassed us, it was difficult not to see the referee favouring them in crucial decisions. This probably began when Keane and Co. were under orders to harangue referees over every decision that went against them.  Salex seems to have Rooney and Ferdinand continuing the tradition from what I saw and the manager himself does it at a higher level off the pitch. Referees and Associations ARE swayed by this continued and orchestrated assertive behaviour.

 

As money starts to absolutely rule the sport can the dominance of a few teams ever be reversed ?  Do the marketing people and the rulers of football ever want it to be?  I doubt it.

Everyone keeps telling us we've "never won f*ckall"  will we be happy to follow a game where we may NEVER will win f*ckall ? (ignore the double negative - we know what they mean)

Along with Notts Forest, Sheff Wed and eighty odd other English league clubs will we be be happy to see our role as being merely plucky cannon fodder in some team's annual routine of taking all the trophies and increasing their share value ?

Maybe it will be all about business in the future and success will be an operating profit rather than a trophy. 

Perhaps the powers that be and the men who control the marketing rights will be happy just to see legions of customers worldwide subscribing to the most successful brands and watching the sterility of all too predictable leagues and competitions.

 

American sport has tried to address these problems with their draft process ( Although I don't pretend to really understand it ) and rugby by capping teams budgets to stop money dictating everything.  I doubt football will change because they (FIFA, UEFA, PL and marketing people) don't have any desire to change it as that would upset the billion dollar revenues they enjoy.

 

If football survives this change of ethos, then brace yourselves lads and lasses for your children or grandchildren wearing ManU or Real Madrid shirts (over my dead body !).

In the meantime enjoy what little competition remains.

[Guest hodsgod]

Where was everyone before John Hall and KK?  NUFC avge attendance in 1982 was 16,001.

 

Every club has glory hunters, NUFC attracted thousands at the start of the KK era, fortunately most stayed.

[La Parka]

I guess I am more of a Worksop Town fan (Went to every home game and away FA cup games since as early as I can remember, till I moved to Leeds). I don't even know why I am here . I was born down south (sussex), dad's side are Gunners, my mothers side are 'Ammers. Growing up I was a keeper, and my first shirt I got was a toon one (Grey and blue). Through that I got into the toon in the early 90's. Supported since then. Cried a lot . Hopefully moving to Newcastle in 2010.

[Doug]

Where was everyone before John Hall and KK?  NUFC avge attendance in 1982 was 16,001.

 

Every club has glory hunters, NUFC attracted thousands at the start of the KK era, fortunately most stayed.

 

You make me laugh, You talk as though we had no support pre KK. We were getting bigger crowds in the late sixties than we get now,  We have always had massive support, they just dont always turn up when the product is consistently crap or as in the case of the seventies and eighties the jokers running the club to add insult to injury, pull down half of an already delapidated ground to go with the rubbish football.

The post war management of this club should collectively hang their heads in shame the way they have squandered the riches of the support bestowed upon them by the most loyal group of fans to be found anywhere.

That  means globally whatever their backround or motivation.

 

Doug.