Guest Goalfather Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I will maintain that an unintelligent player will not score the types of goals that Oba scores. The team is rubbish , the midfielders create very little and the team is not set up in a way to utilize Oba's strengths. Owen's successes at both Liverpool and England was essentially due to a team set up to make him score. Liverpool defended deep and hit teams with the counter attack utilizing Heskey's strength and Owen's pace. Are we even set up in such a way to utilize Martins' pace? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I don't think you can teach off the ball movement in the way Andy Cole had though when he was here. That's just something that you have. Also helped him having Pedro feeding him as well mind. johnny, this what i'm saying some things you can't teach some things you can...we should have adapted our game to suit martins a long time ago, i.e. the type of forward passes we play and the areas into which we play them etc... i actually thought allradyce would have enough nouse to do that but he apparently thought a left footed striker would make a good right winger train martins day in day out how to use his pace effectively and coach the rest of the team to play to that strength we'd be laughing, we've done neither and NO-ONE is laughing are they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and that volleyed lob yesterday was a sign of a footballer without a football brain? Not many players (none in our squad besides Martins and Zog) have the ability to execute it Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 You can't really blame Keegan for that though. He's had how long to work with him? Being a striker himself KK will know as to what Martins needs to improve on, and if anyone can bring the best out of him he can. Although he obviously could do with playing him first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I will maintain that an unintelligent player will not score the types of goals that Oba scores. The team is rubbish , the midfielders create very little and the team is not set up in a way to utilize Oba's strengths. Owen's successes at both Liverpool and England was essentially due to a team set up to make him score. Liverpool defended deep and hit teams with the counter attack utilizing Heskey's strength and Owen's pace. Are we even set up in such a way to utilize Martins' pace? owen point and the one about the way we've set up are good, as for intelligence don't confuse it with instinct where martins is concerned martins has many strengths but appreciation and knowledge of the game around him are not included Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I don't think you can teach off the ball movement in the way Andy Cole had though when he was here. That's just something that you have. Also helped him having Pedro feeding him as well mind. the role of beardsley was always overplayed for me,lee and sellars being just as important.(infact sellars the more important for cole for the first season up) Liverpool at home in particular. You know what I mean though Madras, Pedro was a dream for any striker to have as their partner, so unselfish, read the game superbly, everyone of his partners throughout his career have all said exactly the same. agree to a point i just think the pedro role is overplayed a bit. the football of the latter part of that season was the best i've seen in my time.the season we nearly won the championship was very good but it didn't have the buzz and movement of that first season up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I will maintain that an unintelligent player will not score the types of goals that Oba scores. The team is rubbish , the midfielders create very little and the team is not set up in a way to utilize Oba's strengths. Owen's successes at both Liverpool and England was essentially due to a team set up to make him score. Liverpool defended deep and hit teams with the counter attack utilizing Heskey's strength and Owen's pace. Are we even set up in such a way to utilize Martins' pace? No, we're not. We should either try him with a target man or someone like Emre, Duff or Milner who can link with the midfield. Not with Owen. One thing I will say for Martins is that yesterday he looked positive and eager to get involved. Owen just had this nervous, haunted look about him - one that he's been carrying around with him for the last few weeks in fact - like he's not enjoying his football. How his team-mates are supposed to take encouragement from a Captain who looks like a trappist monk who'd rather be elsewhere, I don't know. Sorry to bang on about Owen, but dropping him is more significant than playing Martins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I don't think you can teach off the ball movement in the way Andy Cole had though when he was here. That's just something that you have. Also helped him having Pedro feeding him as well mind. the role of beardsley was always overplayed for me,lee and sellars being just as important.(infact sellars the more important for cole for the first season up) Liverpool at home in particular. You know what I mean though Madras, Pedro was a dream for any striker to have as their partner, so unselfish, read the game superbly, everyone of his partners throughout his career have all said exactly the same. agree to a point i just think the pedro role is overplayed a bit. the football of the latter part of that season was the best i've seen in my time.the season we nearly won the championship was very good but it didn't have the buzz and movement of that first season up. i personally believe we need to start the search for a beardsley type player, it would rejuvenate the team to go far in the PL now you either need a top top class central midfield or a top top class striker - we can't really attract either, lets be honest, so it would be better to go for a very good supporting/unselfish striker who doesn't make as many headlines as opposed to another owen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I agree with that about Owen. I don't feel confident in him at all when he gets a chance in front of goal now, he has that fearful look about him, were you think he's going to miss, because he's too nervous in front of goal. Not what you want from your supposed star striker is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and that volleyed lob yesterday was a sign of a footballer without a football brain? Not many players (none in our squad besides Martins and Zog) have the ability to execute it Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Total and utter rubbish and you know it.. They're no Pedro Mendes' of course, but I would be interested who you think would be more effective from outside of the box in our squad. I can only think of Emre and maybe Milner who aren't bad, nowhere near the majority of our squad as you claim.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and that volleyed lob yesterday was a sign of a footballer without a football brain? Not many players (none in our squad besides Martins and Zog) have the ability to execute it Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Total and utter rubbish and you know it.. They're no Pedro Mendes' of course, but I would be interested who you think would be more effective from outside of the box in our squad. I can only think of Emre and maybe Milner who aren't bad, nowhere near the majority of our squad as you claim.. They are poor at long range shots the fact they are in a small elite group willing to take on long range shots should not hide the fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and that volleyed lob yesterday was a sign of a footballer without a football brain? Not many players (none in our squad besides Martins and Zog) have the ability to execute it Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Total and utter rubbish and you know it.. They're no Pedro Mendes' of course, but I would be interested who you think would be more effective from outside of the box in our squad. I can only think of Emre and maybe Milner who aren't bad, nowhere near the majority of our squad as you claim.. They are poor at long range shots the fact they are in a small elite group willing to take on long range shots should not hide the fact. i'd love to show you a video of zogs shooting pre this season, invariably his shots were low, hard and on target his shooting his dipped with his confidence at being shat on week in week out while damien wanders about wondering what to do with his 70k Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I don't think theres any chance that Martins won't start next game, tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and that volleyed lob yesterday was a sign of a footballer without a football brain? Not many players (none in our squad besides Martins and Zog) have the ability to execute it Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Total and utter rubbish and you know it.. They're no Pedro Mendes' of course, but I would be interested who you think would be more effective from outside of the box in our squad. I can only think of Emre and maybe Milner who aren't bad, nowhere near the majority of our squad as you claim.. They are poor at long range shots the fact they are in a small elite group willing to take on long range shots should not hide the fact. Nonsense.. Are you suggesting Smith would be more effective from long range if only he tried? Same for Butt (who does try and looks more like a rugby player from long range)? Taylor? Duff? Geremi? Enrique? Beye? Carr? Etc? If what you say is correct then why hasn't Allardyce/Keegan demanded they take a chance from long range more often, considering they're all good at it (well, better than passing the ball around at least, we don't seem able to keep more than 10 seconds of possession nowadays)..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 i'd love to show you a video of zogs shooting pre this season, invariably his shots were low, hard and on target his shooting his dipped with his confidence at being shat on week in week out while damien wanders about wondering what to do with his 70k Like his goal against Boro iirc. His shooting is getting worse & his freekick taking atm is joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and that volleyed lob yesterday was a sign of a footballer without a football brain? Not many players (none in our squad besides Martins and Zog) have the ability to execute it Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Total and utter rubbish and you know it.. They're no Pedro Mendes' of course, but I would be interested who you think would be more effective from outside of the box in our squad. I can only think of Emre and maybe Milner who aren't bad, nowhere near the majority of our squad as you claim.. They are poor at long range shots the fact they are in a small elite group willing to take on long range shots should not hide the fact. Nonsense.. Are you suggesting Smith would be more effective from long range if only he tried? Same for Butt (who does try and looks more like a rugby player from long range)? Taylor? Duff? Geremi? Enrique? Beye? Carr? Etc? If what you say is correct then why hasn't Allardyce/Keegan demanded they take a chance from long range more often, considering they're all good at it (well, better than passing the ball around at least, we don't seem able to keep more than 10 seconds of possession nowadays)..? No its not, see mrmojorisin75 post above. I am not suggesting anything but you are assuming a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 i'd love to show you a video of zogs shooting pre this season, invariably his shots were low, hard and on target his shooting his dipped with his confidence at being shat on week in week out while damien wanders about wondering what to do with his 70k Like his goal against Boro iirc. His shooting is getting worse & his freekick taking atm is joke. until this season it was one of the things that struck me most about the lad...hard, direct on target shooting to say he's one of the worst at the club is a travesty regardless of picking individual examples from one of the most difficult seasons in a 21 year olds life Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 i'd love to show you a video of zogs shooting pre this season, invariably his shots were low, hard and on target his shooting his dipped with his confidence at being shat on week in week out while damien wanders about wondering what to do with his 70k Like his goal against Boro iirc. His shooting is getting worse & his freekick taking atm is joke. Right. What is your point? Zog and Martins are confidence players who can offer us something that other players can't on their day. They are not as consistent as we would like, but realistically if they would be they wouldn't be here anymore would they? Fact remains they offer us a goal thread? Would you rather we played consistent shit football, or took a chance on players who can provide moments of excitement and allow us to pick up the results that allow us to stay up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 We all agree that they should play, you're just getting a bit carried away by both players that's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 to say he's one of the worst at the club is a travesty regardless of picking individual examples from one of the most difficult seasons in a 21 year olds life We dont have many players willing to shoot never mind have a dig from far out but just because he & Oba are willing doesnt make them good at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Oh, and that volleyed lob yesterday was a sign of a footballer without a football brain? Not many players (none in our squad besides Martins and Zog) have the ability to execute it Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf but at least they are willing to shoot while others look for a pass. They will score the odd blockbuster due to the number long range hit & hopes they do. Total and utter rubbish and you know it.. They're no Pedro Mendes' of course, but I would be interested who you think would be more effective from outside of the box in our squad. I can only think of Emre and maybe Milner who aren't bad, nowhere near the majority of our squad as you claim.. They are poor at long range shots the fact they are in a small elite group willing to take on long range shots should not hide the fact. Nonsense.. Are you suggesting Smith would be more effective from long range if only he tried? Same for Butt (who does try and looks more like a rugby player from long range)? Taylor? Duff? Geremi? Enrique? Beye? Carr? Etc? If what you say is correct then why hasn't Allardyce/Keegan demanded they take a chance from long range more often, considering they're all good at it (well, better than passing the ball around at least, we don't seem able to keep more than 10 seconds of possession nowadays)..? No its not, see mrmojorisin75 post above. I am not suggesting anything but you are assuming a lot. You are not suggesting anything and I am the one assuming a lot..?! Let me remind you of what you said: Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf Are you not suggesting (or stating as fact more like) that the majority of our players would be more effective from long range than Zog and Martins?! I ask you again: who are these players, because we'd better tell them to start shooting..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Our fans are too impatient with Obafemi. This might sound hopeful but in his first season Oba was better than Drogba & Adebayour in their first seasons. But with a combination of hard-work, persistence, good coaching and confidence both players have become fine strikers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 to say he's one of the worst at the club is a travesty regardless of picking individual examples from one of the most difficult seasons in a 21 year olds life We dont have many players willing to shoot never mind have a dig from far out but just because he & Oba are willing doesnt make them good at it. i don't think martins is, i think zog is, and i think he's very good at it...the others ARE hard to judge 'cause they never try, agreed repeat (til fade); he's dropped off this season probably due to the fact he has to run 75 yards and take on 6 players from left back in order to be able to get a shot on goal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Our fans are too impatient with Obafemi. This might sound hopeful but in his first season Oba was better than Drogba & Adebayour in their first seasons. But with a combination of hard-work, persistence, good coaching and confidence both players have become fine strikers. Aaaaaaaaaand you win the mystery prize for being able to see what's right in front of everyones eyes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 We all agree that they should play, you're just getting a bit carried away by both players that's all. Fair enough.. People seem to be trodding around the same old cliches about our best players though, and I'm sick of it. We don't have any players that would walk into the Man U squad, fair enough, but if we ever want to get back to the top half of the table we'd be well advised to support our best players rather than picking on their perceived weaknesses and saying they're not good enough in the long run.. Who do you think will take us to the level where these players will fall by the wayside..?! I mean, realistically.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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