Sam Allardyce - ‘It was like trying to build Empire State in a month’

[TRon]

As ever he's pretty much spot on with his comments. It's a shame the players didn't take to Big Sam's methods because it is they who are ultimately responsible for the mess we find ourselves in. I find his comments on that very telling.

 

Which players is he referring to then? He bought Smith and Barton (to play Ramos football no doubt  ) and he gave Butt a new contract. He didn't play Enrique, another one of his signings. Which leaves who? Owen? He was picked ahead of Martins so who's fault is that?

[Baggio]

I thought Sicsfingeredmong had it spot on in another thread when he said Allardyce used the Prozone stats to justify the shite football that we played under him.

 

 

[Thespence]

As ever he's pretty much spot on with his comments. It's a shame the players didn't take to Big Sam's methods because it is they who are ultimately responsible for the mess we find ourselves in. I find his comments on that very telling.

 

Which players is he referring to then? He bought Smith and Barton (to play Ramos football no doubt  ) and he gave Butt a new contract. He didn't play Enrique, another one of his signings. Which leaves who? Owen? He was picked ahead of Martins so who's fault is that?

 

Given, Duff, Owen have made remarks, cant think of them atm but they definitely have.

 

Was going to say Charlie but then he is never happy.

[Guest Phil K]

He's obsessed with stats but only when they go in his favor, he misses the stats that Smith aint scored/created anything in years yet spent 6m on him, Barton spends more time in the police station yet spend 6m on him, let players that could win us games leave(iam sure theres a good stat on how many points solano has won us somewere) that derby took more points off us than any other club, that if it wasnt for last min winners in 3 games we would have been a couple of points max above derby...we could go on and make a huge list..

 

Exactly.

Allardyce may not have had us in this level of mess at this point of the season, but we wouldn't have been very much better off, as it is HIS signings that have f*****d up big time.

[Wullie]

As ever he's pretty much spot on with his comments. It's a shame the players didn't take to Big Sam's methods because it is they who are ultimately responsible for the mess we find ourselves in. I find his comments on that very telling.

 

They took to his methods very well. They barely mustered shots at Reading, at Fulham, at Derby, at sunderland, at Wigan because of the "threat" posed by those sides. That is what he wanted, that is what he got and that is why we are where we are.

[TRon]

As ever he's pretty much spot on with his comments. It's a shame the players didn't take to Big Sam's methods because it is they who are ultimately responsible for the mess we find ourselves in. I find his comments on that very telling.

 

Which players is he referring to then? He bought Smith and Barton (to play Ramos football no doubt  ) and he gave Butt a new contract. He didn't play Enrique, another one of his signings. Which leaves who? Owen? He was picked ahead of Martins so who's fault is that?

 

Given, Duff, Owen have made remarks, cant think of them atm but they definitely have.

 

Was going to say Charlie but then he is never happy.

 

Allardyce picked all three ahead of other alternatives, so again: who's fault is that?

 

 

[Thespence]

As ever he's pretty much spot on with his comments. It's a shame the players didn't take to Big Sam's methods because it is they who are ultimately responsible for the mess we find ourselves in. I find his comments on that very telling.

 

Which players is he referring to then? He bought Smith and Barton (to play Ramos football no doubt  ) and he gave Butt a new contract. He didn't play Enrique, another one of his signings. Which leaves who? Owen? He was picked ahead of Martins so who's fault is that?

 

Given, Duff, Owen have made remarks, cant think of them atm but they definitely have.

 

Was going to say Charlie but then he is never happy.

 

Allardyce picked all three ahead of other alternatives, so again: who's fault is that?

 

Just becasue he picks them doesn't mean they have bought into his methods. At the same time he is not going to play poorer players because they have. As he said he believes over time he would of turned it around & with his success at Bolton he will belive that.

 

Am I glad he is gone? Yes. Do I think he could of turned it around? No. Can I see his point of view? Yes.

[Mr Logic]

let players that could win us games leave(iam sure theres a good stat on how many points solano has won us somewere)

 

Nobby wanted to leave.

 

Aye, but Nobby been around the block and then some. Maybe he took one look at Allardyce and his methods and said to himself, 'That's it for me here.'

[Scoreboard82]

The journalist's (and not Allardyce's) comment "We will never know if Allardyce could have turned Newcastle into a consistent force, but we can surely agree that he would not have led them into their present pickle perilously close to the relegation zone." is a bit infuriating, but I can't find much fault with what Allardyce says himself. He was sacked too early, and deserved at least a full season to see what he could do.

Aye, the "perilously close to the relegation zone" bit was annoying. Fact of the matter is that taking into account the favourable fixtures in the 1st half of the season, we should have had enough points in the bag to not even be thinking of being in danger.

[Guest Knightrider]

“No one suggested we were going down"

 

True.

 

“I’ve no real bitterness any more because there’s only me who’ll be losing sleep over it,”

 

Can't remember reading anything negative about the club from him.

 

“If it was 18 months down the line, I would accept my responsibility,” he says. “But when I left, they’d had fewer points in five of the previous ten years. Bobby Robson finished eleventh and eleventh in his first two years before he got them in the Champions League. So I don’t know how much results were a factor.”

 

He's basically saying he needed more time there to me and he did indeed, 21 games is not enough time to turn a club around, much less one in our state.

 

“I call that a load of waffle,” he says. “Too many people speak about how the Newcastle fans are, but they are not how they are portrayed. They want to win something, they want to win something so badly they will accept you winning something for the sake of it.”

 

He's being too kind. Sorry Sam but a good number of fans want to be entertained or want it all, winning while being entertained and in an unreasonable fashion too. However he's right in general. Again, can't disagree.

 

“Tottenham is a case in point,” Allardyce says. “It is not purists’ football that is being talked about there but getting results and winning. Playing style was never an issue. At Newcastle it was never going to be how it was suggested I played at Bolton.”

 

He's saying, to me, that when Ramos come in there was none of this purist stuff, he got down to working on results first and foremost. Anyway what I've seen of them they've played poor at times and brilliantly at times, they are by no means a footballing purist show.

 

“Newcastle were not good enough, in recent history, to go out and play 4-4-2 every week,” Allardyce says. “And in any case, it is an antiquated system; 4-4-2 has got cobwebs on. We were finding a way of playing, having changed everything behind the scenes. The players were still learning to blend. It was a question of patience. It is like building the Empire State Building in a month. It can’t be done.”

 

He's right, as we are finding out now in 4-4-2. He's right with his empire state building analogy. Sam would have had success with 4-3-3 eventually, this season was never going to bring success regardless so he was right to look beyond this season and try and create something that would sustain the club for a while and not from one week to the other.

 

“Perhaps I couldn’t sell that to the players because they’d never been shown it before,” he says. “All that was said [before] was, ‘Go out and play.’ But today’s game is not like that. The level of preparation is so detailed that you can’t just say, ‘Off you go, off the cuff.’ I was challenging them to adapt and maybe that was a problem. I think I gave the players too much too soon.

 

Can't find anything wrong with those comments and a rare bit of responsibility from the man

 

“Too direct? If those players had the ability to look at their ProZone stats instead of me shouting at them, they would have learnt more about their game than they’ve ever done. They would have learnt something about themselves. I don’t know whether any of that played a part in losing my job. If other people listen to the Chinese whispers or the tittle-tattle, no manager would ever get the chance to build or be successful. Maybe I should have gone, ‘Sod year two, sod year three, I’ll just worry about tomorrow.’ But I’m not like that. I try to build something that has sustainability, not a flash in the pan. I don’t want to sound like I’m making excuses, but how can you judge [from seven months]? It is destined to be a great club somewhere down the line, but who can make it that I don’t know. The longer it goes on without that success they think they deserve, the harder it is to achieve it, and they can’t do it by changing managers all the time.”

 

That's Big Sam, that's why we appointed him, that's what we were getting. Can't blame him for sticking to what he knows best. He's right that the players need to be more knowledgeable of themselves and the game. I think it's clear to us that our players are selfish bastards in the main or want an easy life. He's maybe right though, too much too soon, bad communication etc.

 

 

So what is it that people are upset about? The reporters opinion? I can't find anything wrong in those quotes, he's being honest and giving an insight into what went wrong and what part he played in it.

 

I still find it sad that he got just 21 games or whatever it is. A low point in our club's history showing such a good manager little patience and time. I think we are paying for it slightly at the moment. History though, time to move on etc. etc.

[Guest Knightrider]

In summing up Big Sam and his time here, circumstances beyond his or our control made it almost inevitable that he'd fail or be moved on. New ownership and where we are concerned as fans, years of crap on the pitch meaning no real mood for more patience and a mixed bag of a squad needing major major surgery by way of quality and big money. That's how I'll remember it anyway. Still think he'd have done well for us giving the time and some money.

[Dave]

He wasn't the new board's man. Simple as that.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

He wasn't the new board's man. Simple as that.

 

And he wasn't doing enough to suggest they should stick with him either

[Guest Knightrider]

He wasn't the new board's man. Simple as that.

 

And he wasn't doing enough to suggest they should stick with him either

 

And he wasn't doing an awful lot staggeringly bad to suggest they should dispense with him so quickly and without any real thought. Their inexperience of football management has shown. Fingers crossed they'll learn from their mistakes.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

He wasn't the new board's man. Simple as that.

 

And he wasn't doing enough to suggest they should stick with him either

 

And he wasn't doing an awful lot staggeringly bad to suggest they should dispense with him so quickly and without any real thought. Their inexperience of football management has shown. Fingers crossed they'll learn from their mistakes.

 

Its brilliant how quickly people on here forget how bad things were 4 months ago

[Mr Logic]

A low point in our club's history showing such a good manager little patience and time.

 

If he ever gets another club finishing in the top eight of the premiership more than once I'll concede he is a DECENT manager, not a good one.

 

As I read every one of your responses above I added to myself... 'but did you see the performances at Fulham, at Wigan, at Derby?'

You can't lay the blame for that squarely at the feet of the players wether they were resisting his new indoctrinations or not.

 

 

[Mick]

People saying we wouldn't have been in the mess we now find ourselves if he'd stayed or we'd have improved, bases on what?

[2sheds]

Easter Island Head said:

“If it was 18 months down the line, I would accept my responsibility,” he says. “But when I left, they’d had fewer points in five of the previous ten years. Bobby Robson finished eleventh and eleventh in his first two years before he got them in the Champions League. So I don’t know how much results were a factor.”

 

Wiki said on SBR's first full season:

Four defeats from Newcastle's first five Premiership fixtures prompted the resignation of manager Ruud Gullit after one year in charge, and led to the appointment of Bobby Robson - at 66 the oldest manager in the league - as his successor. Robson consolidated a fading Newcastle side, and they finished a secure 11th in the final table. More impressively, they were the division's third-highest scoring team with 63 goals from 38 games - eight of these came in an 8-0 drubbing of Sheffield Wednesday.

You are not in the same league as SBR you useless big faced twat do not flatter yourself by thinking you are.

 

 

A low point in our club's history showing such a good manager little patience and time. I think we are paying for it slightly at the moment. History though, time to move on etc. etc.

We have dished out far worse treatment to far more capable managers than this buffoon. Low point? - far from it.

 

 

[NJS]

And he wasn't doing an awful lot staggeringly bad to suggest they should dispense with him so quickly and without any real thought. Their inexperience of football management has shown. Fingers crossed they'll learn from their mistakes.

 

I would have sacked him after the Derby away game - I could see exactly where we were heading with this football murderer.

 

I'm sick of the myth that he was/is a good manager - its funny how he sells himself as a "modern" manager with Keegan portrayed as out of touch when his last season at Bolton and him time at us proves he'd been sussed. Other clubs have taken on some of the good stuff he deserves some credit for while leaving behind the "prozone is God" mantra which tells us that headless chickens are invaluable.

 

 

 

[Mowen]

Easter Island Head said:

“If it was 18 months down the line, I would accept my responsibility,” he says. “But when I left, they’d had fewer points in five of the previous ten years. Bobby Robson finished eleventh and eleventh in his first two years before he got them in the Champions League. So I don’t know how much results were a factor.”

 

Wiki said on SBR's first full season:

Four defeats from Newcastle's first five Premiership fixtures prompted the resignation of manager Ruud Gullit after one year in charge, and led to the appointment of Bobby Robson - at 66 the oldest manager in the league - as his successor. Robson consolidated a fading Newcastle side, and they finished a secure 11th in the final table. More impressively, they were the division's third-highest scoring team with 63 goals from 38 games - eight of these came in an 8-0 drubbing of Sheffield Wednesday.

You are not in the same league as SBR you useless big faced twat do not flatter yourself by thinking you are.

 

[Guest Knightrider]

He wasn't the new board's man. Simple as that.

 

And he wasn't doing enough to suggest they should stick with him either

 

And he wasn't doing an awful lot staggeringly bad to suggest they should dispense with him so quickly and without any real thought. Their inexperience of football management has shown. Fingers crossed they'll learn from their mistakes.

 

Its brilliant how quickly people on here forget how bad things were 4 months ago

 

As bad as we are now? I love how history keeps getting rewritten. Yes we were bad at times but there were times when we were good, where we looked like we were playing to a plan. The fact it didn't always come off is the nature of football. Today we are absolutely appalling and in every way. That's not me criticising KK btw, he isn't at fault but then neither is Big Sam at fault either, not really. The players are mainly to blame. I also reckon fans underestimated the challenge ahead.

 

I remember threads in the summer claiming we could finish above Arsenal, that the top 6 is possible, that anything outside of the top 8 would be unacceptable. Me, I knew we were in for a long hard slog of a season where top 10 would be a small step forward and something that too would be an ask, Big Sam or no Big Sam. I actually overestimated the squad of players we had and underestimated just what an effect the years of malaise at every level has had on our great club. In short where we are today is a culmination of things that go back years.

 

Big Sam was appointed to arrest than and then turn it around. He did neither, but then how could he in 21 games or something? No one can. We were not sliding and sliding as we are now though. Whether things would have been different had he not been sacked I don't know, I personally think we'd be a few points better off but still in the mire if you like. I just hope people don't blame him for our woes or try and vilify him for what he was trying to achieve here even if it obviously didn't work because to do so would be ignorance of the highest order.

 

Remember before the season started every single of one of us were wanting what Big Sam was charged to bring here, the off-pitch things, the science, the change from traditional 4-4-2 to new and different ways of playing, the philosophy, and the rest of it. As that's what the club needed. What we as fans forgot all about was these things take time, that this club can't be fixed over night and I think finally people are starting to see that.

 

Anyway as far as I'm concerned Big Sam's only crimes are playing players a few fans didn't want in the starting line up, in formations that some fans didn't understand or want to see, and for going into certain matches with a specific mindset. Well that's football people. Managers do that.

 

The rest is also what happens when a new manager takes over, a few wins, a few losses, a few draws. If after a few years there has been nothing, then fair enough. 21 games to expect what I don't know though is ridiculous and we are paying for that right now as a club, as a team, as fans. And for that very reason, KK can't be blamed either.

[Shearergol]

He wasn't the new board's man. Simple as that.

 

And he wasn't doing enough to suggest they should stick with him either

 

And he wasn't doing an awful lot staggeringly bad to suggest they should dispense with him so quickly and without any real thought. Their inexperience of football management has shown. Fingers crossed they'll learn from their mistakes.

 

Give over man. Can't you remember the football we were playing? Going to Derby looking for a draw?

[NJS]

As bad as we are now?

 

Given the perfomances against the shit teams, can you once again explain how on earth we are expected to believe we would have done better with the fixtures in 2008?

 

The best the arguers can come up with is "we may have beaten Boro" - whoopy fucking do.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

He wasn't the new board's man. Simple as that.

 

And he wasn't doing enough to suggest they should stick with him either

 

And he wasn't doing an awful lot staggeringly bad to suggest they should dispense with him so quickly and without any real thought. Their inexperience of football management has shown. Fingers crossed they'll learn from their mistakes.

 

Give over man. Can't you remember the football we were playing? Going to Derby looking for a draw?

 

I remember wins over Spurs, Everton, West Ham, Fulham away, I remember drawing at home to Arsenal, clean sheets at home to Villa, winning away to Bolton. The past 8 games I remember heavy defeats and zero wins. We were playing poorley but what do people expect with the shite team we have? We are playing better now of course but with the same and even worse end result. People are so melodramatic. The football we were playing... nothing's changed there then eh.

[Mowen]

I reckon we're almost exactly as good now as we were under Allardyce. We probably play the ball on the ground more now though.