Player commitment and loyalty.

[Parky]

In this day and age and the way top flight football has gone, it seems an illusive yet much prized component of a good side. Top sides seem to have it by default ie success on the pitch and is in no small way part of their success.

 

Are there some elements and good practice we could focus on to get some of this back and is player loyalty really that important anymore?

[hakka]

I think self belief and confidence are the winning ingrediant to a side with talent.  A talented side doesn't win you anything without these qualities.

 

As for player commitment and loyalty, well money has ruined that.

[Robster]

I think loyalty is important as it helps keep continuity within the team and the club.

Commitment should be part of every players natural make up but the reality is that they are just employee's of the club and a percentage of the country's population arent committed to their employers and just do their job grudgingly. What we hope is that the players look beyond the club and think of the fans but I dont think they do in a lot of cases.

 

Best way to do it is to have a good manager who is positive and can bring out the best in each player and for the fans to show equal commitment to supporting the team and hopefully, the players then respond - especially when the chips are down like now

[Pilko]

A talented side doesn't win you anything without these qualities.

 

Yeah, but we don't have any talent to start with.

[GM]

A talented side doesn't win you anything without these qualities.

 

Yeah, but we don't have any talent to start with.

 

I'd disagree. I think there's copious amounts of individual talent within the team - however, it's hard to see that when results have been as dire as they have been because of disjointed management and poor tactics since all the upheavals of last summer. What is missing is an esprit de corps - team spirit is sadly lacking - that much is self-evident.

 

As far as good practice, well one thing that's been sadly lacking in recent times is mutual respect between players within the squad, between individual players and the manager, and between the manager and the Chairman.

 

That situation in particular, i.e. the relationship between manager and chairman, one would hope (although there's no tangible evidence as yet) should well have improved since the changes at the top. But, I don't think Keegan has yet shown that he's going to be able to achieve the sort of equilibrium between players and manager that is needed to produce the consistent individual perfomances, levels of motivation and camaraderie which is required to get a team to gel and become a well-oiled machine like Wenger has done repeatedly at Arsenal, for example.

[Parky]

A talented side doesn't win you anything without these qualities.

 

Yeah, but we don't have any talent to start with.

 

I'd disagree. I think there's copious amounts of individual talent within the team - however, it's hard to see that when results have been as dire as they have been because of disjointed management and poor tactics since all the upheavals of last summer. What is missing is an esprit de corps - team spirit is sadly lacking - that much is self-evident.

 

As far as good practice, well one thing that's been sadly lacking in recent times is mutual respect between players within the squad, between individual players and the manager, and between the manager and the Chairman.

 

That situation in particular, i.e. the relationship between manager and chairman, one would hope (although there's no tangible evidence as yet) should well have improved since the changes at the top. But, I don't think Keegan has yet shown that he's going to be able to achieve the sort of equilibrium between players and manager that is needed to produce the consistent individual perfomances, levels of motivation and camaraderie which is required to get a team to gel and become a well-oiled machine like Wenger has done repeatedly at Arsenal, for example.

 

Some excellent points.

[Parky]

I think loyalty is important as it helps keep continuity within the team and the club.

Commitment should be part of every players natural make up but the reality is that they are just employee's of the club and a percentage of the country's population arent committed to their employers and just do their job grudgingly. What we hope is that the players look beyond the club and think of the fans but I dont think they do in a lot of cases.

 

Best way to do it is to have a good manager who is positive and can bring out the best in each player and for the fans to show equal commitment to supporting the team and hopefully, the players then respond - especially when the chips are down like now

 

I often wonder about Spurs and their wage structure and the other talked about ingredients that often keeps good players at the club rather than agitating for moves every season. Berbatov accepted of course.

[TRon]

I think a good base is an ambitious board and a good manager. The top clubs make shrewd appointments and the managers are then responsible for team spirit, loyalty and the rest.

[Optimistic Nut]

I think loyalty is important as it helps keep continuity within the team and the club.

Commitment should be part of every players natural make up but the reality is that they are just employee's of the club and a percentage of the country's population arent committed to their employers and just do their job grudgingly. What we hope is that the players look beyond the club and think of the fans but I dont think they do in a lot of cases.

 

Best way to do it is to have a good manager who is positive and can bring out the best in each player and for the fans to show equal commitment to supporting the team and hopefully, the players then respond - especially when the chips are down like now

 

I often wonder about Spurs and their wage structure and the other talked about ingredients that often keeps good players at the club rather than agitating for moves every season. Berbatov accepted of course.

 

Chimbonda & Keane also showing great acts of team spirit and unity in recent weeks as well.

[Parky]

I think loyalty is important as it helps keep continuity within the team and the club.

Commitment should be part of every players natural make up but the reality is that they are just employee's of the club and a percentage of the country's population arent committed to their employers and just do their job grudgingly. What we hope is that the players look beyond the club and think of the fans but I dont think they do in a lot of cases.

 

Best way to do it is to have a good manager who is positive and can bring out the best in each player and for the fans to show equal commitment to supporting the team and hopefully, the players then respond - especially when the chips are down like now

 

I often wonder about Spurs and their wage structure and the other talked about ingredients that often keeps good players at the club rather than agitating for moves every season. Berbatov accepted of course.

 

Chimbonda & Keane also showing great acts of team spirit and unity in recent weeks as well.

 

Think Keane has been a loyal servant imo.

[Guest float one in]

There are two types of footballers these days - rich ****s who have a burning desire to win, and rich ****s who aren't that fussed about winning.

 

Loyalty to a club is more or less a thing of the past in professional football now in my opinion. Keane - aye, he has been at Spurs a long time, but in that time have any bigger clubs made a serious offer for him and really tested his loyalty? (that is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one btw - I honestly don't know).

 

We shouldn't confuse team spirit with loyalty to a club. Chelsea in the Mourinho years had a very strong team spirit because Mourinho either inherited or signed rich ****s who really wanted to win (Terry, Carvalho, Drogba), and then imparted a bit of his mentality on each one of them. It had nothing to do with loyalty to Chelsea football club. However, after a few years of shared experiences (ie shared victories) they became loyal to the group and to the manager. Man United have had this for years and years, and have built up such a level of prestige that every player wants to play for them.

 

Look at Rooney - I wouldn't be surprised if he spends the next 10 years at Man U, but you would never be able to call that loyalty. He will do it because its the best thing for him - he is a rich *** who wants to win, and Man U give him the best chance to that. If he was a loyal player he would have made a bigger effort to stay at Everton, the club he supposedly supported.

 

The best we can hope for (until the Premier League goes bust - here's hoping for that as soon as possible btw) is that KK manages to get in as many rich ****s who still have that desire to win.

 

 

 

[Consortium of one]

No matter what, a team usually gets what it pays for.  If a team consistently reaches outside to pay (or overpay) someone for their past accomplishments there is a good chance that it will fail.  The ideal is to build from within, be willing to pay to retain the talent that you've developed and go outside the organization for the few pieces that make the whole picture come together.  You just can't take a bunch of hired guns, throw them all together and expect them to mesh.  Developing your own players is key for two reasons:

 

1) It keeps the core of your team familiar with each other. They have been trained the same way and know how play off each other.  They know all their strengths, weaknesses and preferences.  Good unity, common purpose and all that.  Develop players from youth and target young players that can be purchased cheaply and have a future rather than paying heavily for someone's past.

 

2) It helps keep player costs down.  The money saved from multiple transfer fees for mediocre players can be used to nab that big fish that can really make a difference.  Plus, outside players come in to an (hopefully) established, unified team atmosphere.

 

This takes some time, a lot of patience and requires a strong organization fromn top to bottom.  I think it's a good model for any professional team in any sport.

[steve_69]

There's a third group of players you're missing out entirely - young up-and-coming players who are desperate to prove themselves and have yet to be corrupted by Premier League greed.

 

I hope to god our new scouting network can unearth a few undiscovered gems who are desperate to prove themselves at a higher level or to break into their national team. These are the kind of players who will turn us around, not the Decos, Campbells, Van der Vaarts etc. who will come here as johnny big balls with nothing to prove.

 

In addition to creating a team full of drive and hunger we might also be able to develop a few players who can be sold for a profit (when they inevitably do become too big for their boots).

 

 

[Guest float one in]

There's a third group of players you're missing out entirely - young up-and-coming players who are desperate to prove themselves and have yet to be corrupted by Premier League greed.

 

I hope to god our new scouting network can unearth a few undiscovered gems who are desperate to prove themselves at a higher level or to break into their national team. These are the kind of players who will turn us around, not the Decos, Campbells, Van der Vaarts etc. who will come here as johnny big balls with nothing to prove.

 

In addition to creating a team full of drive and hunger we might also be able to develop a few players who can be sold for a profit (when they inevitably do become too big for their boots).

 

 

 

Aye, nice one. I hadn't taken that into account.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'd say our problems are more down to the shattered confidence than any lack of commitment and/or loyalty.

 

Yes, our players aren't dyed-in-the-wool Geordies and most probably don't 'love' the club, but I bet with a few wins behind them and a few new additions they would be performing 10 times better.

 

We wouldn't be raising this issue if we were doing well.

[Parky]

I'd say our problems are more down to the shattered confidence than any lack of commitment and/or loyalty.

 

Yes, our players aren't dyed-in-the-wool Geordies and most probably don't 'love' the club, but I bet with a few wins behind them and a few new additions they would be performing 10 times better.

 

We wouldn't be raising this issue if we were doing well.

 

I think this is a core issue that can as previous posters have suggested deliver long term stability and success. Regardless of the performances on the pitch in any one season a long term outlook must continue. I think we have begun to start moving in the right direction regarding that.

[Thorpinho]

Commitment and loyalty are largely irrelevant in the premiership these days. We have the likes of Butt, Barton and especially Smith who give all the teamwork/commitment talk and we are utter crap with these players. A few years ago we had a bunch of total cunts like Dyer, Jenas, Bellamy, Robert and we were in the champions league. I dont want to get into a debate about the examples of players i have used there, just wanting to make the point that you can be a lazy player who doesnt care and be very successful.

[OzzieMandias]

Unless they grew up as supporters, any loyalty from players is more likely to be to a man than to a club. This might sometimes be to an owner or chairman, but is more often to a manager, especially one who might have mentored them through a youth system or rehabilitated them after a bad patch elsewhere.

 

We've been changing managers too often for any such loyalty to accrue.

[Guest 22bnw]

There is very little loyalty at Newcastle. If we go down, by my reckoning no more than 8 players would stay (not including youngsters) Carr & Butt because theyre getting on a bit and then ameobi, ramage, MAYBE taylor, carroll and harper. These are all supporters of the club that have grown up here. People come here for good wages, nothing else.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Commitment and loyalty are largely irrelevant in the premiership these days. We have the likes of Butt, Barton and especially Smith who give all the teamwork/commitment talk and we are utter crap with these players. A few years ago we had a bunch of total cunts like Dyer, Jenas, Bellamy, Robert and we were in the champions league. I dont want to get into a debate about the examples of players i have used there, just wanting to make the point that you can be a lazy player who doesnt care and be very successful.

 

This is pretty much what I reckon, fans tend to rate commitment/loyalty far too highly and don't realise that talent is really the biggest factor in success.

 

Also, we have the problem that our most loyal players are also generally our worst!

[Parky]

Unless they grew up as supporters, any loyalty from players is more likely to be to a man than to a club. This might sometimes be to an owner or chairman, but is more often to a manager, especially one who might have mentored them through a youth system or rehabilitated them after a bad patch elsewhere.

 

We've been changing managers too often for any such loyalty to accrue.

 

Agreed.

 

On the upside KK is the kind of manager that breeds loyalty in certain types of players.

[GM]

Unless they grew up as supporters, any loyalty from players is more likely to be to a man than to a club. This might sometimes be to an owner or chairman, but is more often to a manager, especially one who might have mentored them through a youth system or rehabilitated them after a bad patch elsewhere.

 

We've been changing managers too often for any such loyalty to accrue.

 

Agreed.

 

On the upside KK is the kind of manager that breeds loyalty in certain types of players.

 

Young and gullible ones perhaps? Or is it more likely that this is just wishful thinking on your part?

[sicsfingeredmong]

I think self belief and confidence are the winning ingrediant to a side with talent.  A talented side doesn't win you anything without these qualities.

 

As for player commitment and loyalty, well money has ruined that.

 

And an insignificant footballer, with the football ability to match his status as a player, in Marc Bosman played a major part in that. A contract today isn't worth the price of the ink ink that was used to pen the zeros that inhabit any contract deal.

 

The Bosman System has played a significant role in the mercenary-attitude among players today - ie. players can jump ship almost when they choose... the uttered word of 'Bosman' by his agent as a trigger/threat is enough for a club to relucantly part ways with an integral & important player who is in-demand elsewhere - and of course the predatory practices of their agents who of course influence & turn the heads of their chargers in the hope of securing more frequent & lucrative commission-based pay-offs down the track.

[Parky]

I think self belief and confidence are the winning ingrediant to a side with talent.  A talented side doesn't win you anything without these qualities.

 

As for player commitment and loyalty, well money has ruined that.

 

And an insignificant footballer, with the football ability to match his status as a player, in Marc Bosman played a major part in that. A contract today isn't worth the price of the ink ink that was used to pen the zeros that inhabit any contract deal.

 

The Bosman System has played a significant role in the mercenary-attitude among players today - ie. players can jump ship almost when they choose... the uttered word of 'Bosman' by his agent as a trigger/threat is enough for a club to relucantly part ways with an integral & important player who is in-demand elsewhere - and of course the predatory practices of their agents who of course influence & turn the heads of their chargers in the hope of securing more frequent & lucrative commission-based pay-offs down the track.

 

Perhaps the whole agent system needs a fresh look. It seems players signing 5 year deals are only safe for about 2 years which is madness.

[OzzieMandias]

It's a sellers' market, though. The game is awash with cash and there aren't enough top quality players to go around. It's the kind of environment in which ten-percenters thrive.