Kev: Signings may not be stars

[Dave]

The point is Jenas wasn't one of our best players. But we still made good money on him when he went stale/wanted out.

 

I'm assuming that's all he means, not specifically getting players, making them good, then selling them off just for the money.

 

I think it looks precisely that, so its up to him to clarify.

 

I take it you agree that we should be attempting to buy players of the calibre that Liverpool do then ?

 

 

 

Why the hell would anyone WANT us to sell our best players? It's just nonsense mate.

 

Of course we should be attempting to buy the best, but right now we simply cannot compete with the top clubs. Hence Keegan's comments in the article, which are spot on IMO.

 

The Jenas point is that we bought an up and coming young player with potential, for an acceptable fee. He did well for a time, but needed to be sold for a variety of reasons. We then still made a good profit on him. That's far better than the alternative.

 

Some people HAVE expressed this view.

 

Point is we also have attempted to buy the best quality players possible, but the judgement of managers has been flawed more often than desirable. We also HAVE been down the road of buying young players with potential who look like they may improve ie Bramble, Ambrose, Viana, Bernard, Gavilan, Cort, Griffin, Lua Lua, Hamilton, Domi, Brady, Glass, and of course Jeanarse himself.

 

So why is it insinuated such a path hasn't been done before, and its going to be successful ?

 

The club needs immediate quality footballers, it ALWAYS does. It's no good ignoring the present, and deflecting attention from a reluctance to tackle the immediate future, and you shouldn't be taken in by it, because as I said, we HAVE been chased young players before and I've gave you recent examples that you should all be aware of.

 

This football club needs BIG money spent on it in the summer, and I'm talking a lot more than micky mouse clubs like Blackburn, of who we should be snapping up their best players.

 

 

 

Nothing you say there is incorrect*. I honestly think you see things that aren't there, and immediately go on the defensive. Nobody says we don't need good players. Nobody says we don't need to spend money.

 

 

*Apart from the bit about the likes of Blackburn. I can't believe you still believe we can just steal their players without a problem.

[The College Dropout]

The point is Jenas wasn't one of our best players. But we still made good money on him when he went stale/wanted out.

 

I'm assuming that's all he means, not specifically getting players, making them good, then selling them off just for the money.

 

I think it looks precisely that, so its up to him to clarify.

 

I take it you agree that we should be attempting to buy players of the calibre that Liverpool do then ?

 

 

 

Why the hell would anyone WANT us to sell our best players? It's just nonsense mate.

 

Of course we should be attempting to buy the best, but right now we simply cannot compete with the top clubs. Hence Keegan's comments in the article, which are spot on IMO.

 

The Jenas point is that we bought an up and coming young player with potential, for an acceptable fee. He did well for a time, but needed to be sold for a variety of reasons. We then still made a good profit on him. That's far better than the alternative.

 

Some people HAVE expressed this view.

 

Point is we also have attempted to buy the best quality players possible, but the judgement of managers has been flawed more often than desirable. We also HAVE been down the road of buying young players with potential who look like they may improve ie Bramble, Ambrose, Viana, Bernard, Gavilan, Cort, Griffin, Lua Lua, Hamilton, Domi, Brady, Glass, and of course Jeanarse himself.

 

So why is it insinuated such a path hasn't been done before, and its going to be successful ?

 

The club needs immediate quality footballers, it ALWAYS does. It's no good ignoring the present, and deflecting attention from a reluctance to tackle the immediate future, and you shouldn't be taken in by it, because as I said, we HAVE been chased young players before and I've gave you recent examples that you should all be aware of.

 

This football club needs BIG money spent on it in the summer, and I'm talking a lot more than micky mouse clubs like Blackburn, of who we should be snapping up their best players.

 

 

 

Aye we should be looking to sign the likes of Bentley but even with a shitload of money that is still somewhat unlikely. We'll end up signing Luis Figo instead.

[Dave]

Btw I wish you'd post your thoughts about the game etc over here NE5, and not just these issues all the time. I see you post them elsewhere and wonder why you don't like to do it on this forum.

 

if you mean on howaythetoon, feel free.

 

Basically Dave, I like this forum - obviously - but there are just too many threads to read them all

 

 

 

 

I mean your posts about Owen (and prevously our matches) over on Toontastic. No idea why you can't post the same kind of thing here tbh.

[Guest Knightrider]

The club needs immediate quality footballers, it ALWAYS does.

 

 

It does but it isn't as simple as that. What we need is the right kind of quality footballers, whether proven or not, whether homegrown or not, whether cheap or expensive, whether big names or unknowns. I at least trust KK to develop players so should we buy young and not so proven talent I fully expect those kind of players to do well here under KK. In fact I fully expect most players he brings in to do well here, regardless of what category they fall under.

 

There is no proven formula though, we've pretty much exhausted them all without much success and in some cases total failure so I don't see the point in applying any kind of policy where the transfer market is concerned.

 

I shall just trust Keegan on that one. He's never let us down before in the transfer market.

 

Btw I don't think KK has any kind of policy either.

[NE5]

'..if needs be.' I'm assuming that means.

 

do you mean my post Dave ?

 

when do you see the likes of Liverpool having to sell their best players ?

 

If you don't see NUFC being capable of challenging at that level, then its really no wonder I've been bashing my head against a brick wall defending people running the club that think we should be. Thats the point of MY post [with no desire to turn this post into a boardfest, but its a logical observation all the same]

 

I didn't mean our best players.

 

It's just that under Allardyce, Roeder and Souness we where signing players in their mid to late 20's.. their value diminishes istantly... when we need/want to sell them their value is rock bottom.

 

We had Bellamy, Dyer & Jenas for a good number of years and we sold each one for atleast what they cost and it was a number of years before Dyer & Bellamy started getting extra large pay packets.

 

Fair enough. I wasn't and aren't having a go at you by the way. I think you will find though, that those policies were the policies of the chosen managers, rightly or wrongly. And lets face it, even if you disagree with the policy, the club is duty bound to back its appointed manager ?

 

Roeder chose to buy Martins though.

 

And last summer I think most of us realised we needed a few solid players, its just that Allardyce brought in too many and forgot about bringing talented footballers to replace Solano and Dyer, if he was able to that is.

 

We are where we are now basically, because we have not replaced Shearer and Bellamy, and to a lesser degree Solano and Robert. Owen has been injured, Martins for all his flair has been inconsistent, Zoggy wasn't ready to step in at the time and is only now at an age where he can be strong enough to play all season, if we can persuade him to stay at the club. These are the 4 players who shot us into the Champions League which really proves that this is where you need real talent, as the defence comprised O'Brian, Bramble, Bernard and Hughes for the most part. We have better defenders at the club now, man for man anyway.

 

 

 

[NE5]

The club needs immediate quality footballers, it ALWAYS does.

 

 

It does but it isn't as simple as that. What we need is the right kind of quality footballers, whether proven or not, whether homegrown or not, whether cheap or expensive, whether big names or unknowns. I at least trust KK to develop players so should we buy young and not so proven talent I fully expect those kind of players to do well here under KK. In fact I fully expect most players he brings in to do well here, regardless of what category they fall under.

 

There is no proven formula though , we've pretty much exhausted them all without much success and in some cases total failure so I don't see the point in applying any kind of policy where the transfer market is concerned.

 

I shall just trust Keegan on that one. He's never let us down before in the transfer market.

 

Btw I don't think KK has any kind of policy either.

 

exactly.

 

 

[NE5]

Btw I wish you'd post your thoughts about the game etc over here NE5, and not just these issues all the time. I see you post them elsewhere and wonder why you don't like to do it on this forum.

 

if you mean on howaythetoon, feel free.

 

Basically Dave, I like this forum - obviously - but there are just too many threads to read them all

 

 

I mean your posts about Owen (and prevously our matches) over on Toontastic. No idea why you can't post the same kind of thing here tbh.

 

its just what I see though. I probably don't post as much on here or toontastic as much as on howaythetoon.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

Btw it will take more than one transfer window to overturn the squad completely so for me any transfer dealings should come down to priority. I'm now of the opinion that the vast majority in our ranks need peddled but that can't be addressed over night so while I'd love nothing better than to see a new back-four, a new midfield and a new attack, it isn't going to come in one window, but in drips and drabs. And that would be the case regardless anyway. EG if Big Sam had of bought quality instead of quantity as hindsight has since showed that's what we should have done, we'd still have needed quantity.

[NE5]

The point is Jenas wasn't one of our best players. But we still made good money on him when he went stale/wanted out.

 

I'm assuming that's all he means, not specifically getting players, making them good, then selling them off just for the money.

 

I think it looks precisely that, so its up to him to clarify.

 

I take it you agree that we should be attempting to buy players of the calibre that Liverpool do then ?

 

 

 

Why the hell would anyone WANT us to sell our best players? It's just nonsense mate.

 

Of course we should be attempting to buy the best, but right now we simply cannot compete with the top clubs. Hence Keegan's comments in the article, which are spot on IMO.

 

The Jenas point is that we bought an up and coming young player with potential, for an acceptable fee. He did well for a time, but needed to be sold for a variety of reasons. We then still made a good profit on him. That's far better than the alternative.

 

Some people HAVE expressed this view.

 

Point is we also have attempted to buy the best quality players possible, but the judgement of managers has been flawed more often than desirable. We also HAVE been down the road of buying young players with potential who look like they may improve ie Bramble, Ambrose, Viana, Bernard, Gavilan, Cort, Griffin, Lua Lua, Hamilton, Domi, Brady, Glass, and of course Jeanarse himself.

 

So why is it insinuated such a path hasn't been done before, and its going to be successful ?

 

The club needs immediate quality footballers, it ALWAYS does. It's no good ignoring the present, and deflecting attention from a reluctance to tackle the immediate future, and you shouldn't be taken in by it, because as I said, we HAVE been chased young players before and I've gave you recent examples that you should all be aware of.

 

This football club needs BIG money spent on it in the summer, and I'm talking a lot more than micky mouse clubs like Blackburn, of who we should be snapping up their best players.

 

 

 

Aye we should be looking to sign the likes of Bentley but even with a shitload of money that is still somewhat unlikely. We'll end up signing Luis Figo instead.

 

I would be chuffed to **** if we bought Bentley. I want him to come here as much as I wanted Bellamy at the time. I've wanted him for ages, he's two footed and gets the the byline on both sides, crosses on the run, takes great free kicks, gets into the box and scores goals. He's everything you want in a modern wide player.

 

 

 

 

[Dave]

I'd love to see Bentley here. On the verge of signing a new contract with Blackburn though, and I still don't see why he'd particularly want to come.

[Menace]

Bullard is 29 btw.

[NE5]

I'd love to see Bentley here. On the verge of signing a new contract with Blackburn though, and I still don't see why he'd particularly want to come.

 

well, I don't really think football has changed too much. Blackburn may be able to offer him more money than they used to be able to do because of sky etc, but from an ambition point of view, fans, and the type of area and football club, the likes of Newcastle beat them all ends up every time. Others do too unfortunately. Its a real coup for Hughes if he can persuade him to stay, but if I were Bentley I wouldn't stay at Blackburn.

 

 

[Baggio]

But does Keegan want Bentley? Apart from the odd tabloid rumour there's nothing to suggest he's even interested.

 

I think he's more likely to move for SWP and he'll have a good chance of getting him.

[Guest Knightrider]

The club needs immediate quality footballers, it ALWAYS does.

 

 

It does but it isn't as simple as that. What we need is the right kind of quality footballers, whether proven or not, whether homegrown or not, whether cheap or expensive, whether big names or unknowns. I at least trust KK to develop players so should we buy young and not so proven talent I fully expect those kind of players to do well here under KK. In fact I fully expect most players he brings in to do well here, regardless of what category they fall under.

 

There is no proven formula though , we've pretty much exhausted them all without much success and in some cases total failure so I don't see the point in applying any kind of policy where the transfer market is concerned.

 

I shall just trust Keegan on that one. He's never let us down before in the transfer market.

 

Btw I don't think KK has any kind of policy either.

 

exactly.

 

 

 

I think a mixture of the various formulas is the best approach. I.e. rather than bring in big names full stop, bring in one, bring in an unknown, bring in a young star in the making, bring in someone average even who turns peoples heads making them go 'WTF'?, mix them together to see what you get. It's the only way in my opinion. I could list 11 players we could get who individually would walk into our team but there is no guarantees once here they are going to succeed, takes more than that. Who thought here Rob Lee, this nothing of a Charlton player would end up as one of the best midfielders in the country or that Andy Cole would score all those goals. Who here thought that Owen would suck like he has here. Who thought WTF when we signed Bellamy? Who here wanted the more known Zenden ahead of the unknown Robert? My point is that buying players isn't as straightforward as it seems.

[Dave]

I'd love to see Bentley here. On the verge of signing a new contract with Blackburn though, and I still don't see why he'd particularly want to come.

 

well, I don't really think football has changed too much. Blackburn may be able to offer him more money than they used to be able to do because of sky etc, but from an ambition point of view, fans, and the type of area and football club, the likes of Newcastle beat them all ends up every time. Others do too unfortunately. Its a real coup for Hughes if he can persuade him to stay, but if I were Bentley I wouldn't stay at Blackburn.

 

 

 

I just think he realises that if he stays put a little longer and continues to improve, a club better than us will probably come in for him. Right now we're not even as good as Blackburn (in terms of league placing, and likelihood of qualifying for Europe soon), never mind better.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I'd love to see Bentley here. On the verge of signing a new contract with Blackburn though, and I still don't see why he'd particularly want to come.

 

well, I don't really think football has changed too much. Blackburn may be able to offer him more money than they used to be able to do because of sky etc, but from an ambition point of view, fans, and the type of area and football club, the likes of Newcastle beat them all ends up every time. Others do too unfortunately. Its a real coup for Hughes if he can persuade him to stay, but if I were Bentley I wouldn't stay at Blackburn.

 

 

 

I just think he realises that if he stays put a little longer and continues to improve, a club better than us will probably come in for him. Right now we're not even as good as Blackburn (in terms of league placing, and likelihood of qualifying for Europe soon), never mind better.

 

I'd still take him for potentially only a few years if we can, like Spurs did with Carrick.

[NE5]

I'd love to see Bentley here. On the verge of signing a new contract with Blackburn though, and I still don't see why he'd particularly want to come.

 

well, I don't really think football has changed too much. Blackburn may be able to offer him more money than they used to be able to do because of sky etc, but from an ambition point of view, fans, and the type of area and football club, the likes of Newcastle beat them all ends up every time. Others do too unfortunately. Its a real coup for Hughes if he can persuade him to stay, but if I were Bentley I wouldn't stay at Blackburn.

 

 

 

I just think he realises that if he stays put a little longer and continues to improve, a club better than us will probably come in for him. Right now we're not even as good as Blackburn (in terms of league placing, and likelihood of qualifying for Europe soon), never mind better.

 

I know this. But why not try and get in first before someone else ?

 

I realise that Keegan is the manager so its his decision, but I'd be surprised if he wouldn't want to bring a player of this calibre to the club.

 

Talking to players, showing them ambition, makes a big impression Dave. They all want to play for progressive club in the end. Yes the likes of Liverpool can offer him immediate Champions League footbal and the likeliehood of trophies but everyone knows that Newcastle are the ultimate sleeping giant and a lot of people will be very interested to see if Keegan can catapult us towards the top again, players included.

 

Keegan persuades players. I honestly don't think that footballers worth their salt wouldn't think seriously about moving here, they all know its a great football city.

 

I would make him my number 1 target he's a top player, he's got his best years to come and he's playing where we need new players too.

[Dave]

Fair comment.

 

As I've said before, I think we all hope Keegan can still sell this club as well as we would as fans.

[NE5]

The club needs immediate quality footballers, it ALWAYS does.

 

 

It does but it isn't as simple as that. What we need is the right kind of quality footballers, whether proven or not, whether homegrown or not, whether cheap or expensive, whether big names or unknowns. I at least trust KK to develop players so should we buy young and not so proven talent I fully expect those kind of players to do well here under KK. In fact I fully expect most players he brings in to do well here, regardless of what category they fall under.

 

There is no proven formula though , we've pretty much exhausted them all without much success and in some cases total failure so I don't see the point in applying any kind of policy where the transfer market is concerned.

 

I shall just trust Keegan on that one. He's never let us down before in the transfer market.

 

Btw I don't think KK has any kind of policy either.

 

exactly.

 

 

 

I think a mixture of the various formulas is the best approach. I.e. rather than bring in big names full stop, bring in one, bring in an unknown, bring in a young star in the making, bring in someone average even who turns peoples heads making them go 'WTF'?, mix them together to see what you get. It's the only way in my opinion. I could list 11 players we could get who individually would walk into our team but there is no guarantees once here they are going to succeed, takes more than that. Who thought here Rob Lee, this nothing of a Charlton player would end up as one of the best midfielders in the country or that Andy Cole would score all those goals. Who here thought that Owen would suck like he has here. Who thought WTF when we signed Bellamy? Who here wanted the more known Zenden ahead of the unknown Robert? My point is that buying players isn't as straightforward as it seems.

 

I agree, its all just down to judgement, whatever the age and price range. You can find young players but you need the ready made ones too.

 

Its also down to luck sometimes. We had Peter Schmeichel on loan once. We'd have won the league if he'd played in goal for us, no disrespect to Pav who was a good keeper himself.

 

 

[ElDiablo]

I think a mixture of the various formulas is the best approach. I.e. rather than bring in big names full stop, bring in one, bring in an unknown, bring in a young star in the making, bring in someone average even who turns peoples heads making them go 'WTF'?, mix them together to see what you get. It's the only way in my opinion. I could list 11 players we could get who individually would walk into our team but there is no guarantees once here they are going to succeed, takes more than that. Who thought here Rob Lee, this nothing of a Charlton player would end up as one of the best midfielders in the country or that Andy Cole would score all those goals. Who here thought that Owen would suck like he has here. Who thought WTF when we signed Bellamy? Who here wanted the more known Zenden ahead of the unknown Robert? My point is that buying players isn't as straightforward as it seems.

 

 

You need a few not so glamourous players to knit it all together. I think Keegan will get them and hopefully be able to identify players who can do that and more.

[Mick]

 

I didn't mean our best players.

 

It's just that under Allardyce, Roeder and Souness we where signing players in their mid to late 20's.. their value diminishes istantly... when we need/want to sell them their value is rock bottom.

 

We had Bellamy, Dyer & Jenas for a good number of years and we sold each one for atleast what they cost and it was a number of years before Dyer & Bellamy started getting extra large pay packets.

 

Dyer and Jenas were both sold for more than we paid for them, Bellamy was sold for less than £4 million and cost £6 million.

[Mowen]

 

I would be chuffed to **** if we bought Bentley. I want him to come here as much as I wanted Bellamy at the time. I've wanted him for ages, he's two footed and gets the the byline on both sides, crosses on the run, takes great free kicks, gets into the box and scores goals. He's everything you want in a modern wide player.

 

 

Did you really want Bellamy before we signed him? I knew Bobby had wanted him for a while, but I thought he'd be shocking after his performances at Coventry. I was delighted to be wrong with that one

[NE5]

The point is Jenas wasn't one of our best players. But we still made good money on him when he went stale/wanted out.

 

I'm assuming that's all he means, not specifically getting players, making them good, then selling them off just for the money.

 

I think it looks precisely that, so its up to him to clarify.

 

I take it you agree that we should be attempting to buy players of the calibre that Liverpool do then ?

 

The original post is also cherry picking anyway, choosing a few players who "failed" proves nothing, paying the going rate is also what the top clubs do. If people really want the club to act 2nd rate, then they will get a 2nd rate club.

 

 

 

I meant what Dave said.

 

We have been paying top dollar for second rate players for a long time now. I want us to model our transfer policy more like Arsenal's or even Spurs not Liverpool who have wasted a shit-load of money for unspectacular players.

 

We need to spot good young talent. Once a player reaches a certain status it'll be impossible to sign him when the top 4 target them.

 

I don't agree.

 

Wenger is a genius [but he's made mistakes buying players, he is best at finding them and moulding them and is a one off in that respect]

 

Spurs over the last 10-15 years have not been anywhere near us for the most part. Its only the last few years they have spent big money when they have moved back into the top positions. Which sort of proves my point.

 

I would prefer us to be like Liverpool. At the end of the day, if you compete in the bargain and 2nd rate market, you will end up with a 2nd rate team.

 

History - and not just ours - proves this to be absolutely correct.

 

You should not knock the club for trying to back their managers and complete with the other big clubs. The vast majority of clubs would give their teeth for such ambition, and you fail to understand that every club wants to sign the best young talent. I fear that Manu, Chelsea etc may have something to say about your theory and become a slight obstacle to your easy guide to automatic success.

 

Another fact is that if a top player becomes available, and someone like Everton or Man City offer him a better contract than us, he will sign for the other club.

 

Kids stuff this, sorry to say like.

 

I think its quite sad that people have so much hatred for the old board they are completely unable or unwilling to accept the things that they did correctly. And paying the money to get the players their managers wanted, was without question the right thing to do.

 

 

[NE5]

 

I would be chuffed to **** if we bought Bentley. I want him to come here as much as I wanted Bellamy at the time. I've wanted him for ages, he's two footed and gets the the byline on both sides, crosses on the run, takes great free kicks, gets into the box and scores goals. He's everything you want in a modern wide player.

 

 

Did you really want Bellamy before we signed him? I knew Bobby had wanted him for a while, but I thought he'd be shocking after his performances at Coventry. I was delighted to be wrong with that one

 

yes I did.

 

I saw him play alongside John Hartson in a wide position, but he kept moving inside looking for the ball and I thought that he should play in the middle all the time because of his pace and desire, he was a different player when he went looking for the ball, got close to Hartson, and forced situations through being involved.

 

The sad thing is, some people booed him because they didn't like him. Sad. And blind too.

 

 

[Decky]

I wonder how much KK will get to spend, as long as Ashley shows signs that he wants the club to move forward, something Shepherd NEVER showed.