James Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I think we;ve proved somewhat in our recent history that at times its best to build from the front. ive always belived that the most imprtant thing in a game is to be able to put pressure on the opposition and keep them under pressure and we did it brilliantly well under keegan and SBR. It released pressure off the defenders and we had 2 excellent outlets for our defense when under pressure - the attack was multi dimesional, it could both chase long balls and turn defense inot attack in a flash or we could hold up the ball and keep possession in the final third waiting for the midfield to catch up and take pressure off the defenders that way. You look at our current forwards and in my opinion only Martins is exrtremely simlar to Bellamy- but we dont have our own Shearer who can hold up the ball, viduka isnt even close to sheaer when it comes to hold up play. For years though we've not had a solid base to rely on. I'm not disputing that attacking from the front is effective, but I feel we achieved under Robson despite the defence, not thanks to it. With Enrique, Faye, Taylor, Beye and Harper in the defence I think we have as solid a look as we have for a long time; it's a complete defence, with no outstanding weak links. Got to thank Allardyce for three of those too. This summer we need to make sure we are as formidable going forward, and that means targetting and bringing in players who can create and score goals. 100% agree. It was literally the defense that needed sorting - it was such a strange situation - i could and will never understand why not a sinslge manager chose to really bulk up the defence and add real quality - we easily had one of the best attacking units in the prem. Really frustrating in hindsight. I would have thought it had something to do with not agreeing reasonable fees for Miguel and Seitaridis because a certain individual had his eyes on a cheaper car in another lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 We showed last season that better defenders doesn't equal a better defence. Yes, we need players who can attack and score and create, but we need these players to do a defensive shift as well, as that is the best way to stop our opponents performing when they have the ball. For example, Tevez has been integral to Ronaldo's form this season. Our defence was OK when we took the pressure off them and allowed them a chance to settle. Don't think it will be if we go back to 442 to be honest. There are numerous ways probably to deal with this that don't involve Shearer or Bellamy, but it is an issue that will need sorting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Some quality posts in this thread. And it really does show that if we get two or three quality attackers, combine them with Owen and Martins, we could do very very well. The team back then was a good defensive unit, throughout the eleven. The team now has all of that, but with four actually good defenders. If we get it right in the transfer market we could do so well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 We showed last season that better defenders doesn't equal a better defence. Yes, we need players who can attack and score and create, but we need these players to do a defensive shift as well, as that is the best way to stop our opponents performing when they have the ball. For example, Tevez has been integral to Ronaldo's form this season. Our defence was OK when we took the pressure off them and allowed them a chance to settle. Don't think it will be if we go back to 442 to be honest. There are numerous ways probably to deal with this that don't involve Shearer or Bellamy, but it is an issue that will need sorting. how does 443 mean our defense plays really well and 442 means that they fall into a disorginised rubble exactly? beye, faye, taylor and enrique is a good defence. not brilliant but solid, and as long as we can keep the ball next season they should perform alright. a lot of teams play 442 in this league and i'm sure they are not blaming that on any defensive frailties that they face. i'm equally sure that there is nothing in beye, feye, taylor and enrique which makes them very good at defending in a 433 formation but shite in a 442 formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I cant remember the last itme we had a balanced team to be honest. I think the closest we came was when we had woodgate but he was always imjuered. We seem to struggle to get everyone sorted whther it be a poor ish defence, a nothing midfiled under Allardyce or no attack under Roeder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 We showed last season that better defenders doesn't equal a better defence. Yes, we need players who can attack and score and create, but we need these players to do a defensive shift as well, as that is the best way to stop our opponents performing when they have the ball. For example, Tevez has been integral to Ronaldo's form this season. Our defence was OK when we took the pressure off them and allowed them a chance to settle. Don't think it will be if we go back to 442 to be honest. There are numerous ways probably to deal with this that don't involve Shearer or Bellamy, but it is an issue that will need sorting. how does 443 mean our defense plays really well and 442 means that they fall into a disorginised rubble exactly? Extra players innit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 We showed last season that better defenders doesn't equal a better defence. Yes, we need players who can attack and score and create, but we need these players to do a defensive shift as well, as that is the best way to stop our opponents performing when they have the ball. For example, Tevez has been integral to Ronaldo's form this season. Our defence was OK when we took the pressure off them and allowed them a chance to settle. Don't think it will be if we go back to 442 to be honest. There are numerous ways probably to deal with this that don't involve Shearer or Bellamy, but it is an issue that will need sorting. how does 443 mean our defense plays really well and 442 means that they fall into a disorginised rubble exactly? beye, faye, taylor and enrique is a good defence. not brilliant but solid, and as long as we can keep the ball next season they should perform alright. a lot of teams play 442 in this league and i'm sure they are not blaming that on any defensive frailties that they face. i'm equally sure that there is nothing in beye, feye, taylor and enrique which makes them very good at defending in a 433 formation but shite in a 442 formation. Defending is not just about the back four but the protection in front of it. I don't think we have a combination of players in a 4 man midfield who can provide the protection needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 We showed last season that better defenders doesn't equal a better defence. Yes, we need players who can attack and score and create, but we need these players to do a defensive shift as well, as that is the best way to stop our opponents performing when they have the ball. For example, Tevez has been integral to Ronaldo's form this season. Our defence was OK when we took the pressure off them and allowed them a chance to settle. Don't think it will be if we go back to 442 to be honest. There are numerous ways probably to deal with this that don't involve Shearer or Bellamy, but it is an issue that will need sorting. how does 443 mean our defense plays really well and 442 means that they fall into a disorginised rubble exactly? beye, faye, taylor and enrique is a good defence. not brilliant but solid, and as long as we can keep the ball next season they should perform alright. a lot of teams play 442 in this league and i'm sure they are not blaming that on any defensive frailties that they face. i'm equally sure that there is nothing in beye, feye, taylor and enrique which makes them very good at defending in a 433 formation but s**** in a 442 formation. In a 442 we only really have one defensive midlifeid who will try and protect the defnse and that was Butt, so not very well. When we switched to 433 we in essence had 3 CM doing defensive duties and doing them much better and narrower than a winger would do providing more protection for the defence. If we are looking to swith back to a 442 then DM is THE absolutely most important position to fill, in fact DM is the most imporatant position to fill anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 well i'm pretty sure the defence is going to struggle if we dont bring in a new dm and attacking midfielder anyway, its got fuck all to do with formation. if were starting with butt, geremi and smith in cm next season (not barton or emre) then our defense will be under a lot of pressure 433 isn't going to be a magical buffer against that . we need to sign 3-4 new midfielders, period. and if we go into next season with 2 new cm's and a new right winger then i will have every confidence in our defence being able to perform in a 442 formation. your right in as much as 433 offers more protection to the defense, but if you think we'd go back to 442 with the same midfield we ended the season with, bar emre, then i hope to god your wrong, because we will be torn to pieces. our defense would not need the extra protection of a 433 formaition if we had a midfield that could retain the ball and a good dm. we need new midfielders in, and no matter what formation we play next season, if that doesn't happen then we'll struggle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Some quality posts in this thread. And it really does show that if we get two or three quality attackers, combine them with Owen and Martins, we could do very very well. The team back then was a good defensive unit, throughout the eleven. The team now has all of that, but with four actually good defenders. If we get it right in the transfer market we could do so well. And it ties in with everything Keegan's said about incoming players. Maybe five in total, with perhaps just three good first-teamers to spark off the platform we already have. The people moaning about not signing anyone yet would do well to bear that in mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Defending is not just about the back four but the protection in front of it. I don't think we have a combination of players in a 4 man midfield who can provide the protection needed. You can defend just as well with a 4 man midfield as you can with a 3 man midfield. If the ball is on the wing then the person on the opposite side comes in narrow to help more centrally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericz Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Most people will dislike this comparison but I feel Didier Drogba can/will fill up Alan Shearer's role pretty well. I think he's easily one of the best striker in the world right now. (Of course, it's probably unrealistic as I cannot imagine Didier Drogba coming to and playing for Newcastle. However, I really think he deserves a very high wage compared to many/all of our high wage earners today.) As for a speedy partner, Obafemi Martins is definitely one fast player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 bellamy had much more to his game than just speed. drogba would do good in the shearer role, but martin's isn't as intelligent as bellamy was, and he lacks in other aspects as well. it would still be a phenominal partership mind, but for different reasons. Shearer needed bellamy to do his running for him, whereas drogba doesn't. i think him and santa cruz would be a brilliant partnership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Shearer and Bellamy were a great combination for sure. The tragedy was that Shearer's legs went, but it was Bellamy who ended up moving on. Bellamy had lots of qualities, but the one we really needed at the time was pace. With the exception of Martins, we've become quite a slow side now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I reckon - or I hope - that we will see Zoggy become a major and regular player next season. Still need big changes though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I reckon - or I hope - that we will see Zoggy become a major and regular player next season. Still need big changes though. Hope you're right on Zoggy mate. Certainly need changes too, three or four to go straight into the team. But that's what Keegan's been saying all along, so I'm relatively confident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 hopefully. Given Beye Taylor Faye Enrique New RW 2 new CMS Zog Owen Martins would be good enough for me, but we'd need a lot more talent competing with them for their places. that team has no real weak link (assuming our 3 new signings work out), and it'd do for next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Some quality posts in this thread. And it really does show that if we get two or three quality attackers, combine them with Owen and Martins, we could do very very well. The team back then was a good defensive unit, throughout the eleven. The team now has all of that, but with four actually good defenders. If we get it right in the transfer market we could do so well. four good defenders is overstating it a little bit, 1 good, 3 average to be honest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 hopefully. Given Beye Taylor Faye Enrique New RW 2 new CMS Zog Owen Martins would be good enough for me, but we'd need a lot more talent competing with them for their places. that team has no real weak link (assuming our 3 new signings work out), and it'd do for next season. no real weak link? look at the back 5 pal, that central defence isn't good enough if we want to challenge Everton, Portsmouth, City etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 it is good enough if we want to challenge those clubs. it isn't good enough for top 4 though. i would like us to buy another quality centre half, but if we're going in with those 4 we can finish fith, in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I reckon - or I hope - that we will see Zoggy become a major and regular player next season. Still need big changes though. In his attitude especially. I still think he'll be on his bike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 hopefully. Given Beye Taylor Faye Enrique New RW 2 new CMS Zog Owen Martins would be good enough for me, but we'd need a lot more talent competing with them for their places. that team has no real weak link (assuming our 3 new signings work out), and it'd do for next season. Pointless playing out and out wingers with no target man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 anyone see olic for crotia last night? closest thing to bellamy i've seen in a long while (questionable finisher apparently too so even more like bellamy!!!) if we were looking fo that type of player again we could do much worse, think he was linked a while back too iirc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooneyToonArmy Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Bellamy and Kluivert did very well as a striking partnership too (until Shearer walked back in the team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Bellamy and Kluivert did very well as a striking partnership too (until Shearer walked back in the team) very much so, it sickened me that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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