madras Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 It's not a case of not knowing how to run a club, more lacking in experience. But that doesn't mean Wise and Vetere can't do a good job, their background suggests that they should do very well. With Jiminez, I'm not convinced that doing property deals with Paul Kemsley necessarily gives him the experience to convince a player that his future lies at SJP As for Spurs, it was less than 3 weeks ago that Arshavin said he dreamt of playing for Barca in La Liga or Arsenal. Comolli went to Russia for 2 days soon after that, spent another day there last week and now Arshavin's agent says that personal terms are agreed and Spurs and Ramos are perfect for him. I might be doing Jiminez a disservice but the results so far don't suggest there is that amount of drive to get a deal done. Agree. It will be the end of the transfer windows when people finally realise these recruitment men are as useless as their experience in the position suggests. I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're all useless. In fact I wouldn't describe any of them as such, there's a big difference between between being inexperienced in a role and being useless. People with connections at Charlton say there was real disappointment went to Real, and Real wouldn't have settled for an average performer tbh. Wise, as Sporting Director or whatever his official title is, knows more than enough to agree with KK what positions need dealing with and what sort of player is required. IMHO it's the next stage, convincing the player to move to Newcastle and getting the contract signed, is where it's going wrong. Coloccini reputedly agreed terms, then wanted more time and in the meantime, there's a question mark whether the transfer fee is to be renegotiated. My gut feeling is that it just needs to be a bit sharper to get the deal finalised. FWIW, I don't believe finances have anything to do with it. There have been numerous examples of Levy refusing to increase a bid to get a player or standing steadfastly behind the salary scale and losing players as a result. If Levy can't get a transfer completed as a package that he thinks is ok, the deal won't get done, it's as simple as that. And that, omongst other things is why Spurs always have a list of 4 or 5 potential players for a position, sometimes you can't get your first 2 or 3 preferred options. Would you say they've got most of their first and second choices so far? would you say you knew who the 1st or 2nd choices were ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliMag Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Parky: mardras makes a good point. We have no idea who was even on that list since we haven't heard about our transfers unless it came from anotehr club or the deal was done. For all we know Guitierrez was our 5th choice or our 1st choice. We will probably never know. I am with those that said we really can't judge their success failure until the window is closed. FWIW I am glad we are not in Everton's siutation. Their backroom is in complete upheaval, no transfers and their first team is even smaller than ours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Is it no fair to say Modric was the number 1 choice?. Jonas fell on our lap as he was a player "Webstering" his contract so is a massive bonus to get him on the cheap if he lives up to the pedigree he has, as for Guthrie he may have done well against Hartlepool but I feel the lad long term will be another Keegan esq McDonough/Garland signing but lets hope not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliMag Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Is it no fair to say Modric was the number 1 choice?. Jonas fell on our lap as he was a player "Webstering" his contract so is a massive bonus to get him on the cheap if he lives up to the pedigree he has, as for Guthrie he may have done well against Hartlepool but I feel the lad long term will be another Keegan esq McDonough/Garland signing but lets hope not. You could argue Modric was our number one choice, but you could just as easily argue he wasn't. So "fair" - I don't think so. We need a mole (probably in London) to let us in on what is really happening. The other point that hasn't been emphasized enough is that it is very likely that Jimenez, Wise and Vetere are supposed to prioritise youth targets. We'll not know if that is working out intil we see these young signings in three years. We have signed quite a few youth players and maybe they are told to spend the majority of their time on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Does it matter what 'choice' they were, if they succeed here? Look at Jeffers/Bellamy, Zenden/Robert, as easy examples. I doubt we'll ever find out, but I can't see Keegan settling for players that aren't good enough for him, regardless of whether we go for them after another. Of course we'll have prioritised, but not getting the first one on the list doesn't automatically guarantee failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dev Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Ummm, sorry to have to inject a bit of reason and sanity here, but just two small points: 1. Transfer activity has been slow across the EPL, and we are on par with everyone else currently. 2. There is still a month to go in the transfer window What a stupid thread full of ridiculous posts. How can anyone on here pretend to know anything about the current transfer market situation? Lets wait and see how things go over the next couple of weeks at least, for the love of god. Would you all rather we jumped in early and filled up on Spurs rejects? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Ummm, sorry to have to inject a bit of reason and sanity here, but just two small points: 1. Transfer activity has been slow across the EPL, and we are on par with everyone else currently. 2. There is still a month to go in the transfer window What a stupid thread full of ridiculous posts. How can anyone on here pretend to know anything about the current transfer market situation? Lets wait and see how things go over the next couple of weeks at least, for the love of god. Would you all rather we jumped in early and filled up on Spurs rejects? I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 You could argue Modric was our number one choice, but you could just as easily argue he wasn't. So "fair" - I don't think so. We need a mole (probably in London) to let us in on what is really happening. The other point that hasn't been emphasized enough is that it is very likely that Jimenez, Wise and Vetere are supposed to prioritise youth targets. We'll not know if that is working out intil we see these young signings in three years. We have signed quite a few youth players and maybe they are told to spend the majority of their time on that. You think we may have had a target that was more number 1 than Modric!!!! Amazing please let me know who you think that may of been? Why would Jimenez be focusing on youth? He is a deal maker & contract broker & has nothing to do with spotting players at all. Vetre is a scout man we have had scouts before, why does this bloke get such a good write up? Is he the Simon Cowell of football, have I missed something about this fella? HE WORKED FOR REAL MADRID, SO DID JOHN TOSHACK FFS!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Ummm, sorry to have to inject a bit of reason and sanity here, but just two small points: 1. Transfer activity has been slow across the EPL, and we are on par with everyone else currently. How is this window slow? Money spent? player moves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliMag Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 You think we may have had a target that was more number 1 than Modric!!!! Amazing please let me know who you think that may of been? Why would Jimenez be focusing on youth? He is a deal maker & contract broker & has nothing to do with spotting players at all. Vetre is a scout man we have had scouts before, why does this bloke get such a good write up? Is he the Simon Cowell of football, have I missed something about this fella? HE WORKED FOR REAL MADRID, SO DID JOHN TOSHACK FFS!!!! Straw-man-itis - You has it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Ummm, sorry to have to inject a bit of reason and sanity here, but just two small points: 1. Transfer activity has been slow across the EPL, and we are on par with everyone else currently. 2. There is still a month to go in the transfer window What a stupid thread full of ridiculous posts. How can anyone on here pretend to know anything about the current transfer market situation? Lets wait and see how things go over the next couple of weeks at least, for the love of god. Would you all rather we jumped in early and filled up on Spurs rejects? Well if we knew all about it there would be nowt to discuss would there? Who's that track 'Higher Ground' by any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 It's not a case of not knowing how to run a club, more lacking in experience. But that doesn't mean Wise and Vetere can't do a good job, their background suggests that they should do very well. With Jiminez, I'm not convinced that doing property deals with Paul Kemsley necessarily gives him the experience to convince a player that his future lies at SJP As for Spurs, it was less than 3 weeks ago that Arshavin said he dreamt of playing for Barca in La Liga or Arsenal. Comolli went to Russia for 2 days soon after that, spent another day there last week and now Arshavin's agent says that personal terms are agreed and Spurs and Ramos are perfect for him. I might be doing Jiminez a disservice but the results so far don't suggest there is that amount of drive to get a deal done. Agree. It will be the end of the transfer windows when people finally realise these recruitment men are as useless as their experience in the position suggests. I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're all useless. In fact I wouldn't describe any of them as such, there's a big difference between between being inexperienced in a role and being useless. People with connections at Charlton say there was real disappointment went to Real, and Real wouldn't have settled for an average performer tbh. Wise, as Sporting Director or whatever his official title is, knows more than enough to agree with KK what positions need dealing with and what sort of player is required. IMHO it's the next stage, convincing the player to move to Newcastle and getting the contract signed, is where it's going wrong. Coloccini reputedly agreed terms, then wanted more time and in the meantime, there's a question mark whether the transfer fee is to be renegotiated. My gut feeling is that it just needs to be a bit sharper to get the deal finalised. FWIW, I don't believe finances have anything to do with it. There have been numerous examples of Levy refusing to increase a bid to get a player or standing steadfastly behind the salary scale and losing players as a result. If Levy can't get a transfer completed as a package that he thinks is ok, the deal won't get done, it's as simple as that. And that, omongst other things is why Spurs always have a list of 4 or 5 potential players for a position, sometimes you can't get your first 2 or 3 preferred options. Would you say they've got most of their first and second choices so far? would you say you knew who the 1st or 2nd choices were ? It was more a query about the Spuds targets..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 You think we may have had a target that was more number 1 than Modric!!!! Amazing please let me know who you think that may of been? Why would Jimenez be focusing on youth? He is a deal maker & contract broker & has nothing to do with spotting players at all. Vetre is a scout man we have had scouts before, why does this bloke get such a good write up? Is he the Simon Cowell of football, have I missed something about this fella? HE WORKED FOR REAL MADRID, SO DID JOHN TOSHACK FFS!!!! Straw-man-itis - You has it. Really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 You could argue Modric was our number one choice, but you could just as easily argue he wasn't. So "fair" - I don't think so. We need a mole (probably in London) to let us in on what is really happening. The other point that hasn't been emphasized enough is that it is very likely that Jimenez, Wise and Vetere are supposed to prioritise youth targets. We'll not know if that is working out intil we see these young signings in three years. We have signed quite a few youth players and maybe they are told to spend the majority of their time on that. You think we may have had a target that was more number 1 than Modric!!!! Amazing please let me know who you think that may of been? Why would Jimenez be focusing on youth? He is a deal maker & contract broker & has nothing to do with spotting players at all. Vetre is a scout man we have had scouts before, why does this bloke get such a good write up? Is he the Simon Cowell of football, have I missed something about this fella? HE WORKED FOR REAL MADRID, SO DID JOHN TOSHACK FFS!!!! For the last time he was at Real Madrid for about 6 months. 6 months...6 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 You could argue Modric was our number one choice, but you could just as easily argue he wasn't. So "fair" - I don't think so. We need a mole (probably in London) to let us in on what is really happening. The other point that hasn't been emphasized enough is that it is very likely that Jimenez, Wise and Vetere are supposed to prioritise youth targets. We'll not know if that is working out intil we see these young signings in three years. We have signed quite a few youth players and maybe they are told to spend the majority of their time on that. You think we may have had a target that was more number 1 than Modric!!!! Amazing please let me know who you think that may of been? Why would Jimenez be focusing on youth? He is a deal maker & contract broker & has nothing to do with spotting players at all. Vetre is a scout man we have had scouts before, why does this bloke get such a good write up? Is he the Simon Cowell of football, have I missed something about this fella? HE WORKED FOR REAL MADRID, SO DID JOHN TOSHACK FFS!!!! For the last time he was at Real Madrid for about 6 months. 6 months...6 months. Nearly as long as Owen then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lol Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 It's not a case of not knowing how to run a club, more lacking in experience. But that doesn't mean Wise and Vetere can't do a good job, their background suggests that they should do very well. With Jiminez, I'm not convinced that doing property deals with Paul Kemsley necessarily gives him the experience to convince a player that his future lies at SJP As for Spurs, it was less than 3 weeks ago that Arshavin said he dreamt of playing for Barca in La Liga or Arsenal. Comolli went to Russia for 2 days soon after that, spent another day there last week and now Arshavin's agent says that personal terms are agreed and Spurs and Ramos are perfect for him. I might be doing Jiminez a disservice but the results so far don't suggest there is that amount of drive to get a deal done. Agree. It will be the end of the transfer windows when people finally realise these recruitment men are as useless as their experience in the position suggests. I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're all useless. In fact I wouldn't describe any of them as such, there's a big difference between between being inexperienced in a role and being useless. People with connections at Charlton say there was real disappointment went to Real, and Real wouldn't have settled for an average performer tbh. Wise, as Sporting Director or whatever his official title is, knows more than enough to agree with KK what positions need dealing with and what sort of player is required. IMHO it's the next stage, convincing the player to move to Newcastle and getting the contract signed, is where it's going wrong. Coloccini reputedly agreed terms, then wanted more time and in the meantime, there's a question mark whether the transfer fee is to be renegotiated. My gut feeling is that it just needs to be a bit sharper to get the deal finalised. FWIW, I don't believe finances have anything to do with it. There have been numerous examples of Levy refusing to increase a bid to get a player or standing steadfastly behind the salary scale and losing players as a result. If Levy can't get a transfer completed as a package that he thinks is ok, the deal won't get done, it's as simple as that. And that, omongst other things is why Spurs always have a list of 4 or 5 potential players for a position, sometimes you can't get your first 2 or 3 preferred options. Would you say they've got most of their first and second choices so far? Near impossible to say in most cases because although we might know 4 or 5 names, the order of priority is very rarely known. Diego Milito's agent said today that Spurs have today decided not to pursue Milito's signing. As Levy is in Russia presumably to finalise the deal for Arshavin, it would be fair to assume that Milito was behind Arshavin in the pecking order, but that's only assumption, not certainty. I would guess for a striker Villa would have been their #1 target, but that then brings into question the level of expectancy of actually signing him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 You could argue Modric was our number one choice, but you could just as easily argue he wasn't. So "fair" - I don't think so. We need a mole (probably in London) to let us in on what is really happening. The other point that hasn't been emphasized enough is that it is very likely that Jimenez, Wise and Vetere are supposed to prioritise youth targets. We'll not know if that is working out intil we see these young signings in three years. We have signed quite a few youth players and maybe they are told to spend the majority of their time on that. You think we may have had a target that was more number 1 than Modric!!!! Amazing please let me know who you think that may of been? Why would Jimenez be focusing on youth? He is a deal maker & contract broker & has nothing to do with spotting players at all. Vetre is a scout man we have had scouts before, why does this bloke get such a good write up? Is he the Simon Cowell of football, have I missed something about this fella? HE WORKED FOR REAL MADRID, SO DID JOHN TOSHACK FFS!!!! For the last time he was at Real Madrid for about 6 months. 6 months...6 months. I know you did but is that reason a few people think the fella with the fancy chief scout title is a great talent spotter. Also he was there about a 4 months, 4 months........4 moths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Ummm, sorry to have to inject a bit of reason and sanity here, but just two small points: 1. Transfer activity has been slow across the EPL, and we are on par with everyone else currently. 2. There is still a month to go in the transfer window What a stupid thread full of ridiculous posts. How can anyone on here pretend to know anything about the current transfer market situation? Lets wait and see how things go over the next couple of weeks at least, for the love of god. Would you all rather we jumped in early and filled up on Spurs rejects? I agree. seconded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Would you all rather we jumped in early and filled up on Spurs rejects? i'd rather we "jump in" and secure targets who are an improvement on our current playing staff at any point of proceedings personally, not really what the spurs rejects refers to either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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