England

[Shak]

Andy Reid is probably our best CM at this point in time, you cunts.

[mrmojorisin75]

Mojo:

 

Surely you can say the same for Gerrard though?

 

He's managed to score less goals for England than Lampard, despite playing more often, arguably with more of his goals coming against shite, an' all.

 

Gerrard: Germany, Macedonia, Serbia, Switzerland, Austria, Azerbaijan, Hungary, Trinidad, Sweden, Andorra x3, USA.

 

3 in friendlies, 7 in qualifiers, 3 in major tournaments.

 

Lampard: Croatia, Iceland, France, Croatia, Portugal, Austria, Wales, Northern Ireland, Austria, Poland, Jamaica, Greece, Germany, Croatia.

 

5 in friendlies, 6 in qualifiers, 3 in major tournaments.

 

There's not much to call between them at all, yet you make Gerrard the focal point of the team while claiming Lampard isn't international class. Beggars belief.

 

well there are other factors rich, such as (to my knowledge) the amount of different MF positions gerrard has covered in those games...he's more versatile and thus suffers for it imo by being put left side, wide right etc...

 

can't ever recall lampard playing anywhere other than CM

 

anyhow i wasn't saying he is the focal point as you put it NOW, but given that freedom to roam in an ACM position he would be...when he does it for liverpool, i.e. when benitez isn't playing him LW either then he's devastating, i can't see how that word is ever applicable to frank lampard

 

i may have exaggerated my opinion of lampard somewhat but i still don't think he's top class, i don't think he'll he ever take a game for england (against good opposition) by the scruff of the neck and win it for us...i believe gerrard has it in him

[mrmojorisin75]

Gerrard and Lampard are both good players. If given the choice I'd probably plump for Gerrard personally, but the point is I wouldn't really care which one was dropped if only he had the balls to do it.

 

howay boys you know i didn't actually mean fwank should be made to carry the kit don't you?!  jesus, sense of humour transplant?

[Rich]

Lampard has played on the either side for England IIRC, and also off the striker.

 

Just basing that on memory but I'm fairly sure he has.

 

And I hate to get all Gol on you (I really, really do) but I'd say Lampard's form for his club has been as devastating as Gerrard's for his, if not moreso. Obviously just a difference of opinion, but I don't think there's much between the two of them at all. If anything, Gerrard has been MORE disappointing for Engerland than Lampard has - especially at crunch times. I personally thought Lampard was fucking outstanding at Euro 2004, not just for the goals he scored, either.

[KaKa]

Gerrard is such a fraud. all he does is give away the ball with his ridiculous long cross field passes, both him and Beckham continuously did this last night, time and time again. This despite having both Lampard and Barry moving around and making themselves available for the short passes.

 

This the reason the game so often tends to pass Lampard by, because he does prefer to play shorter passes to feet and then move.

 

Gerrard scores the odd screamer and people think he is so great, but he isn't that disciplined or intelligent of a player most of the time. That's why Rafa is always trying to put him in positions where he has less tactical responsibilities. At Livepool players like Mascherano and Alonso make him look a lot better.

[JH]

I'm sure given the chance, Gerrard would try and score from our box. It's as if the ball is made of hot coal sometimes.

[Guest quklaani]

Steven Gerrard should be the best midfielder in the world, he's all the talent for it hes just never been taught how to play properly.  In theory he could have been better than Keane, and thats what he should be, a proper all round midfielder.  Imagine if England had a player like that, who could also score a truckload of goals.  I blame Houllier and Benetiz for indulging his love of being the hero.  I mean really, a lot of people (with good reason) say his best position is on the wing...how the hell did it come to that?

 

Hargreaves and Barry lack the talent of Gerrard, but they're far better midfielders.  One of them should partner Carrick, who still lacks a certain...oomph (Man Utd fans debate this endlessly, I think hes just got a Ferdinand-esque approach, he never really seems to look like he's trying) but hes a ridiculously good player in the right system.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think Gerrard actually suffers from being a one-man team for Liverpool (with Torres now obviously).

 

He has to take on so much for his club I wonder whether it hinders him fitting into a team environment where he needs to be less of a focal point, as well as building his ego.

[mrmojorisin75]

Lampard has played on the either side for England IIRC, and also off the striker.

 

Just basing that on memory but I'm fairly sure he has.

 

And I hate to get all Gol on you (I really, really do) but I'd say Lampard's form for his club has been as devastating as Gerrard's for his, if not moreso. Obviously just a difference of opinion, but I don't think there's much between the two of them at all. If anything, Gerrard has been MORE disappointing for Engerland than Lampard has - especially at crunch times. I personally thought Lampard was fucking outstanding at Euro 2004, not just for the goals he scored, either.

 

we just have different definitions of devastating (see below for other options) then

 

for what it's worth it's been a while since i thought gerrard was up to his earlier standards, seems to be suffering under benitez a little now with the stifling tactics, position changes, and as Ian W says carrying the team & club expectations

 

someone else mentioned his "hollywood pass" shit and i reckon it's a good point; that's not what he's good at (whereas lampard is), he should be on the move roaming around getting on the end of killer passes from other people, when he does THAT he's virtually unstoppable/unplayable/devastating...i've rarely seen a game where lampard was unplayable, or whatever else you want to call it

 

someone also mentioned  lampards short pass and move game too, seems to make sense it not settling too well with ingerlund i suppuse given the lack of technical ability most of our players have

 

anyway to end that argument personally i'd have a carrick/gerrard/hargreaves mid partenership with gerrard told be very, very attacking, carrick to sit spraying passes and hargreaves doing the up and down work...no gerrard then maybe lampard in that role coming in off the striker like he does at chelski to bag so many goals there, at international level i really reckon we need to give up on the idea of conventional wingers for a while if not forever

 

back five then

 

----------hargreaves---------carrrick--------------

-----------------------gerrard------------------------

------rooney------------------------owen-----------

------------------crouch/ashton---------------------

 

rooney/gerrard/owen all have licence to roam under that system, interchange positions with the striker staying as focal point...give it a few games to bed in it'd work i reckon

 

[Shearergol]

Lampard has played on the either side for England IIRC, and also off the striker.

 

Just basing that on memory but I'm fairly sure he has.

 

And I hate to get all Gol on you (I really, really do) but I'd say Lampard's form for his club has been as devastating as Gerrard's for his, if not moreso. Obviously just a difference of opinion, but I don't think there's much between the two of them at all. If anything, Gerrard has been MORE disappointing for Engerland than Lampard has - especially at crunch times. I personally thought Lampard was fucking outstanding at Euro 2004, not just for the goals he scored, either.

 

Cheers

 

Anyway, the point about Gerrard being played out of position; how about factoring in the point that Gerrard actually played up front in some of those games? Surely that's his best position for Liverpool, so why can't he recreate it for England?

 

In the same way that mrmojo calls Owen "England's Michael Owen", I really do feel that Gerrard only gives a shit about Liverpool.

[mrmojorisin75]

Lampard has played on the either side for England IIRC, and also off the striker.

 

Just basing that on memory but I'm fairly sure he has.

 

And I hate to get all Gol on you (I really, really do) but I'd say Lampard's form for his club has been as devastating as Gerrard's for his, if not moreso. Obviously just a difference of opinion, but I don't think there's much between the two of them at all. If anything, Gerrard has been MORE disappointing for Engerland than Lampard has - especially at crunch times. I personally thought Lampard was fucking outstanding at Euro 2004, not just for the goals he scored, either.

 

Cheers

 

Anyway, the point about Gerrard being played out of position; how about factoring in the point that Gerrard actually played up front in some of those games? Surely that's his best position for Liverpool, so why can't he recreate it for England?

 

In the same way that mrmojo calls Owen "England's Michael Owen", I really do feel that Gerrard only gives a shit about Liverpool.

 

not sure that's the right description - he plays behind the strikers i'd say and that's the position i'm saying he should be playing in the england team, when he's bursting through beyond the striker he's great as i've said earlier

[Guest Johan]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley  Gerrard  Rooney

                  Ashton

[ElDiablo]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley   Gerrard   Rooney

                  Ashton

 

Fuck Rooney, can't stand the cunt at the moment.

[Guest nufc_geordie]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley  Gerrard  Rooney

                  Ashton

 

This.

[mrmojorisin75]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley   Gerrard   Rooney

                  Ashton

 

i'd go for carrick due to his passing ability but the other changes i'd have no worries with - something like this is a system we have more than enough quality players to make work rather than having a good winger on one side then watching it fall down elsewhere in the team due to the imbalance

 

manu are currently a pretty good model in this sense, lots of attacking flair (when fit) who can rotate around and fit into different positions

[themanupstairs]

Steven Gerrard should be the best midfielder in the world, he's all the talent for it hes just never been taught how to play properly.  In theory he could have been better than Keane, and thats what he should be, a proper all round midfielder.  Imagine if England had a player like that, who could also score a truckload of goals.  I blame Houllier and Benetiz for indulging his love of being the hero.  I mean really, a lot of people (with good reason) say his best position is on the wing...how the hell did it come to that?

 

Hargreaves and Barry lack the talent of Gerrard, but they're far better midfielders.  One of them should partner Carrick, who still lacks a certain...oomph (Man Utd fans debate this endlessly, I think hes just got a Ferdinand-esque approach, he never really seems to look like he's trying) but hes a ridiculously good player in the right system.

 

good to read some sense on here

 

IMO Carrick is the best passer of the ball England have (since Scholes retired), and should make every single starting line-up

[mrmojorisin75]

 

IMO Carrick is the best passer of the ball England have (since Scholes retired), and should make every single starting line-up

 

this

[Cronky]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley   Gerrard   Rooney

                  Ashton

 

Not much wrong with that. I'd be inclined to find a place for Joe Cole rather than Hargreaves, and change the formation to a 4-4-1-1.

[mrmojorisin75]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley   Gerrard   Rooney

                  Ashton

 

Not much wrong with that. I'd be inclined to find a place for Joe Cole rather than Hargreaves, and change the formation to a 4-4-1-1.

 

how do you suggest that would set up then?  isn't it just recreating the problems we've had for years - no LW & the gerrard problem?

 

if you want cole in drop bentley, done

 

[Cronky]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley   Gerrard   Rooney

                  Ashton

 

Not much wrong with that. I'd be inclined to find a place for Joe Cole rather than Hargreaves, and change the formation to a 4-4-1-1.

 

how do you suggest that would set up then?  isn't it just recreating the problems we've had for years - no LW & the gerrard problem?

 

if you want cole in drop bentley, done

 

 

...........Barry

Bentley......Gerrard....Cole

.............Rooney

.............Ashton

 

Joe Cole isn't ideal on the left, but IMO he's proved himself to be the best option. He always looks hungry to get involved and to take responsibility and I'd be loath to leave him out.

[mrmojorisin75]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley   Gerrard   Rooney

                  Ashton

 

Not much wrong with that. I'd be inclined to find a place for Joe Cole rather than Hargreaves, and change the formation to a 4-4-1-1.

 

how do you suggest that would set up then?  isn't it just recreating the problems we've had for years - no LW & the gerrard problem?

 

if you want cole in drop bentley, done

 

 

...........Barry

Bentley......Gerrard....Cole

.............Rooney

.............Ashton

 

Joe Cole isn't ideal on the left, but IMO he's proved himself to be the best option. He always looks hungry to get involved and to take responsibility and I'd be loath to leave him out.

 

carrick for barry it works for me yeah

 

tbh any alternative to trying to play orthodox wide men who either (a) aren't good enough or (b) not wide men to start with would do me

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's got to be Ashley Young on the left at this point surely. He might not be the best individual name, but he's definitely the most comfortable and effective in that role IMO.

[mrmojorisin75]

It's got to be Ashley Young on the left at this point surely. He might not be the best individual name, but he's definitely the most comfortable and effective in that role IMO.

 

not seen enough of young, but he's basically a winger right?

 

system i'm on about here the wider players wouldn't be wingers as such, has young got more to his game?

[Ericz]

          Hargreaves Barry

    Bentley  Gerrard  Rooney

                  Ashton

 

Not much wrong with that. I'd be inclined to find a place for Joe Cole rather than Hargreaves, and change the formation to a 4-4-1-1.

 

how do you suggest that would set up then?  isn't it just recreating the problems we've had for years - no LW & the gerrard problem?

 

if you want cole in drop bentley, done

 

 

...........Barry

Bentley......Gerrard....Cole

.............Rooney

.............Ashton

 

Joe Cole isn't ideal on the left, but IMO he's proved himself to be the best option. He always looks hungry to get involved and to take responsibility and I'd be loath to leave him out.

 

carrick for barry it works for me yeah

 

tbh any alternative to trying to play orthodox wide men who either (a) aren't good enough or (b) not wide men to start with would do me

 

I tend to think Owen Hargeaves makes a better holding midfielder than Carrick. He seems more matured in his game.

 

I would agree with some saying that the left belongs to Young or maybe even Downing at this point in time.

 

As for Cole, it's either Bentley or Cole at the right. Bentley for more creativity I guess and Cole for more pace.

 

I do not really know but at the rate Rooney seems to be developing, he is looking more like Dirt Kyut, not very effective but hardworking I must admit. The role behind Ashton seems better suited for Lampard/Gerard. Rooney.. mmm of course he is a good player no doubt but he just doesn't seem to fit in very well with the current english players we have. United has Tevez, Ronaldo, Giggs/Nani to provide the goals, the flair etc but England does not seem to have (show) that at the moment to compliment Rooney's style of play.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'm a bit concerned with Rooney as well, for club and country he's turned himself into the worker that sacrifices himself for the team. All well and good, but we've got less talented players that could do that.

 

I worry that in a year's time we'll be talking about whether Rooney should be an automatic choice or not, which would be a shame considering his potential.