Does anyone out there have any kind of confidence in Ashley at all?

[Bad Mongo]

1) its about time someone put this shit argument to bed. whether it was the most economical choice or not, the club was in a fuck load of debt which is now gone (unless he's just moved the debt around, but i've seen no evidence for this, but would love someone to show me why these rumours are here). that is a good thing he has done for the club, and if he didn't know about the debt (a mistake, but undestandible one, considering hall apparently only gave him a limited time to look at the books) then it will have affected his spending plans.

 

whether it was the most economical choice or not is irrevilent, it still saved the club and it still would have effected his spending plans.

 

2) wow, just wow. are you using the fact we've spent the club record for a defender as an argument AGAINST ashley? and you never KNOW how a transfer will turn out, but the 2 argies seem to be very astute signings so far. add to that what we've seen SO FAR of bassong and guthrie, they will both definately imrpove the squad if not the first team. so our recruitment team gets a vote of confidence from me.

 

3) Smith is only here because Keegan wanted him, Shola is only here because he failed a medical and Duff, i'm not sure, maybe we didn't want to sell, maybe we couldn't find any buyers, but with our squad it may be a good thing he's still here.

 

4) i dont know whether they plan to spend in the future or not, but i'm willing to bet they will spend if they can find the players to spend it on.

1) Shit argument? If the club has been debt free but otherwise equal, it would have cost £100M more. He bought the club, debt and all, and paid it. It's only what's expected. Also, the point that our club would be bankrupt is just hearsay. The fact that you have to take it for granted to defend the new board says a lot.

 

2) No, I'm not using "the fact we've spent the club record for a defender as an argument AGAINST ashley", I'm using it against the claim that we're "bringing in good players ... whilst not spending lavish amounts of money", which is only true for Jonas.

 

3) Keegan also wanted to keep Milner. Of course all three players would need to be replaced if they were sold, so I'm not celebrating the fact that Duff may play on Saturday. And anyway, my point, which was always a counterpoint to the claim that the board had succeeded in "shipping out bad players", still stands: the most expensive deadwood is still there, and Carr and Ramage would have gone no matter what.

 

4) So you're willing to bet that they'll spend if they spend. I'm not taking you up on that, genius.

[Offshore]

just about sums up my position on the whole affair. blame probably on both sides but unless it goes to court we'll probably never know.

 

Aye, mine too. Even if it goes to court we probably won't know that much more - hopefully it won't come to that anyway.

in a way but it may be the only way to conclude it. many people will believe keegan regardless while a minority will believe that if keegan doesn't take it to court it is because he has no case.

 

either way it's going to leave a nasty taste. the court route may be better in the long run if ashley plans on staying.

 

Not sure, to be honest I'd be surprised if any legal action was taken by either side.

 

Keegan hasn't denied that he resigned has he? So he wouldn't have much of a case against the club that I can think of. What would he sue them for, or what would they sue him for?

 

Exactly, If the club go anywhere near to taking KK to court over this then that'll definately be them finished at Newcastle. Doesn't matter if they believe they are 100% right, that for most, would be the final straw.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

I really can't see how anyone can say its a bad thing that the interest payments have been removed from the club

 

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

 

Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players?

 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now.

 

I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now.

[Guest optimistic nit]

1) i dont assume that the club would have gone bankrupt, but we are in no doubt a stronger financial position than we were 15 months ago, clearing the debt has clearly worked in the clubs favour. as i've said his motivations for clearing the debt are irrelivent, its still improved the financial position of the club.

 

2) its true for all our signings except Jonas. true, we have no idea how well our new signings will perform (that includes jonas) over the season, but our strategy is clearly bringing in good players while not spending lavish amounts of money, unless we find someone to spend the money on wisely, such as colo. thats what i think anyway.

 

3) milner needs replacing.

[ChezGiven]

Which mong is saying if the club was debt free, the club would have been worth 100m more?

 

It was on the fucking stock exchange, the share price dictated the buying price. Now, if you want a lesson on what dictates the share price feel free to ask but be prepared to wade through reams of factors before you find the bit about debt.

 

Fuck me people will spout any old shit if it suits them.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Which mong is saying if the club was debt free, the club would have been worth 100m more?

 

It was on the fucking stock exchange, the share price dictated the buying price. Now, if you want a lesson on what dictates the share price feel free to ask but be prepared to wade through reams of factors before you find the bit about debt.

 

Fuck me people will spout any old shit if it suits them.

 

i thought that was rubbish, but i get the feeling if i try and get into even basic finance to prove my points my already slightly comprimised argument would unravel very quickly so i thought i'd let it slide.

[UV]

I really can't see how anyone can say its a bad thing that the interest payments have been removed from the club

 

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

 

Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players?

 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now.

 

I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now.

 

Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run.

 

However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later.

[ChezGiven]

I really can't see how anyone can say its a bad thing that the interest payments have been removed from the club

 

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

 

Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players?

 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now.

 

I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now.

 

Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run.

 

However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later.

 

Having the player for 3-5 years and benefitting from their rise to stardom > never having the player and not being able to compete on price for them with Man U/Chelsea when they reach their peak tbh.

[madras]

Which mong is saying if the club was debt free, the club would have been worth 100m more?

 

It was on the f***ing stock exchange, the share price dictated the buying price. Now, if you want a lesson on what dictates the share price feel free to ask but be prepared to wade through reams of factors before you find the bit about debt.

 

f*** me people will spout any old s*** if it suits them.

while you are right in that aspect it is also true that had the club been debt free the share price would probably have reflected this by being higher.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Which mong is saying if the club was debt free, the club would have been worth 100m more?

 

It was on the f***ing stock exchange, the share price dictated the buying price. Now, if you want a lesson on what dictates the share price feel free to ask but be prepared to wade through reams of factors before you find the bit about debt.

 

f*** me people will spout any old s*** if it suits them.

while you are right in that aspect it is also true that had the club been debt free the share price would probably have reflected this by being higher.

 

No tsure on that one - some of the biggest valued companies on the FTSE100 are crawling in debt. Its all about structuring the finance of the company in the most efficient way.

 

And the share price is more fundamentally determined by present and future profitability forecasts than the balance sheet structure

[madras]

Which mong is saying if the club was debt free, the club would have been worth 100m more?

 

It was on the f***ing stock exchange, the share price dictated the buying price. Now, if you want a lesson on what dictates the share price feel free to ask but be prepared to wade through reams of factors before you find the bit about debt.

 

f*** me people will spout any old s*** if it suits them.

while you are right in that aspect it is also true that had the club been debt free the share price would probably have reflected this by being higher.

 

No tsure on that one - some of the biggest valued companies on the FTSE100 are crawling in debt. Its all about structuring the finance of the company in the most efficient way.

 

And the share price is more fundamentally determined by present and future profitability forecasts than the balance sheet structure

thats why i said probably.

[ChezGiven]

Which mong is saying if the club was debt free, the club would have been worth 100m more?

 

It was on the f***ing stock exchange, the share price dictated the buying price. Now, if you want a lesson on what dictates the share price feel free to ask but be prepared to wade through reams of factors before you find the bit about debt.

 

f*** me people will spout any old s*** if it suits them.

while you are right in that aspect it is also true that had the club been debt free the share price would probably have reflected this by being higher.

There is some logic in that of course but the share price is driven by much more than that.

 

Man U has debt 8+ times the size ours was. If you wanted to buy Man U now, what discount would that represent on its value?

 

Say the market value of a club trading 300m a year is 1bn, would that mean Man U are worth 200m to buy because of the debt?

 

No.

[UV]

I really can't see how anyone can say its a bad thing that the interest payments have been removed from the club

 

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

 

Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players?

 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now.

 

I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now.

 

Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run.

 

However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later.

 

Having the player for 3-5 years and benefitting from their rise to stardom > never having the player and not being able to compete on price for them with Man U/Chelsea when they reach their peak tbh.

 

Sure, but there's a massive difference between developing players like Arsenal or Man U, hanging on to the best and moving on the one's who don't quite cut it, and eg Ipswich or the old days of West Ham where you develop some really good young players but sell them on as soon as they show some promise and are just a feeder club. The contract situation and subsequent sale of Milner (who I consider was out best young player) don't fill me with confidence that we will be following the first route.

[TRon]

I really can't see how anyone can say its a bad thing that the interest payments have been removed from the club

 

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

 

Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players?

 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now.

 

I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now.

 

Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run.

 

However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later.

 

Having the player for 3-5 years and benefitting from their rise to stardom > never having the player and not being able to compete on price for them with Man U/Chelsea when they reach their peak tbh.

 

Sure, but there's a massive difference between developing players like Arsenal or Man U, hanging on to the best and moving on the one's who don't quite cut it, and eg Ipswich or the old days of West Ham where you develop some really good young players but sell them on as soon as they show some promise and are just a feeder club. The contract situation and subsequent sale of Milner (who I consider was out best young player) don't fill me with confidence that we will be following the first route.

 

Everyone sees things coloured by their own opinion. I would class Milner as one of the ones you described as not quite cutting it and being moved on, so not a great example of this proving we are becoming a feeder club. He's hardly a Waddle or a Gascoigne.

[UV]

I really can't see how anyone can say its a bad thing that the interest payments have been removed from the club

 

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

 

Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players?

 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now.

 

I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now.

 

Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run.

 

However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later.

 

Having the player for 3-5 years and benefitting from their rise to stardom > never having the player and not being able to compete on price for them with Man U/Chelsea when they reach their peak tbh.

 

Sure, but there's a massive difference between developing players like Arsenal or Man U, hanging on to the best and moving on the one's who don't quite cut it, and eg Ipswich or the old days of West Ham where you develop some really good young players but sell them on as soon as they show some promise and are just a feeder club. The contract situation and subsequent sale of Milner (who I consider was out best young player) don't fill me with confidence that we will be following the first route.

 

Everyone sees things coloured by their own opinion. I would class Milner as one of the ones you described as not quite cutting it and being moved on, so not a great example of this proving we are becoming a feeder club. He's hardly a Waddle or a Gascoigne.

 

If you're expecting a conveyor belt of players better than Milner to come rolling off the academy production line, then I think you're setting massively high expectations for it and will be waiting an awfully long time.

 

Milner was a first team player under a number of managers, and is obviously highly regarded by people more qualified to rate him than you or I, yet he was seen as not important enough to keep happy with what I am sure were quite modest contract demands, and was sold not because we had someone better to replace him with, but simply for profit.

[NE5]

Wait and see who they come up with as a replacement.

 

And if that replacement is a knacker?

 

Then I'll lose faith in them, I'll judge the next manager on what he does on the pitch rather than how big a name he is.

 

The club, directors and the fans all need to move on for all of our benefit, this situation has only blown up so much because it's KK in charge, which is something Ashley will have to deal with as he was happy to take the credit for bringing him back.

 

 

 

Well so far he seems to like to employ people known within his circle of friends so I am not sure I have much confidence that he is scouring the world to fond the right man. Lets see though.

The reference somewhere tonight of Llambias being a good friends with David O'Leary scares the Bejeezus out of me

 

That's why I said I'll judge them on what they do on the pitch, I don't care if it's one of his mates as long as we play well.

 

will regular european football for a few years do for his legendary status ?

 

Who's going to be his yes man

 

 

[NE5]

None whatsoever.

 

No communication, doesnt plan on giving any

No money, doesnt plan to spend any

No class

Pissed off the manager, 'it was his fault'

Pissed off the fans, 'not bothered'

pissed off the players

Given Dennis Wise more power than any future manager

proven liar.

 

I could write a list...

 

 

exactly.

 

 

[NE5]

He has made a total pigs ear of this so far by picking a manager that would appease the fans rather than work under the conditions he wanted. I think he let his heart rule his head with Keegan and it back fired big time.

 

Any real reseach on Keegan would have told him he could never work under the kind of constraints he wanted to impose on him, to be fair very few big name managers would.

 

On the flip side Keegan was naive to go into this agreeing to everything the board wanted whilst probably thinking he could bend Ashley round his finger over time to change things how he wanted.

 

Thats not how a good business is run. Neither, however is what has transpired a reflection of competant dealings.

 

Both board and Keegan gambled, both them and consequently us fans lost.

 

Ashley is a smart man, much smarter than he has made himself look. He will learn from this mistake, he didnt get to this point in his life any different.

 

It will take big character to stick through this, to be honest he has no real reason to. Its an enjoyment thing rather than personal gain, building trust up with the fans again could be next to impossible. For me he has to come out and talk about this whole mess. That or ship out.

 

He will be much more carefull picking the new boss, should he still be around. I'm not hugely versed in knowledge about how these DOF systems work everywhere else. But the manager having NO say on transfers is obscene, he has to at least have a say in who is to be let go and the areas of the team he wants improving. That disscusion can be saved for another thread though.

 

In all I have confidence in Ashley, he needs to find the right man for his system though if he wants to stick with it. Keegan certainly wasnt.

 

Very few people were asking for Keegan to return to the club, Ashley is doing what Shepherd did when he tried saying Roeder was the fans choice, it's all bollocks designed to take the heat off themselves.

 

[NE5]

Not really. His team have handled this affair in a ridiculously amateurish fashion. Coupled with the complete lack of spending shown in the transfer window I don't particularly have any confidence in him at all.

 

Of course I'll wait and see who the next 'manager' is, but the pressure is now on, big time. Can't say I'd be upset if he just fucked off tomorrow. I'm sure KK isn't totally blameless, but as the owner, Ashley takes ultimate responsibility for this club and what happens to it.

 

Feel completely let down, after giving him the benefit of the doubt from day one, and three years-worth of my money a couple of weeks back.

 

Agreed.

 

 

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

I think those talking of under spending are getting ideas above our station tbh.

[manorpark]

I think it's shocking that no words of explanation have come out to the fans, they're a bunch of f***ing cowards and anyone who wants them still here are off their heads.

 

I'm hoping this silence and lack of appointment for the Managers position is down to Ashley's selling.

 

He thinks (no, he 'knows') that we are irrelevant to him, so he has (and always will) treat us like an irrelevancy . .  ie, like sh*t.

 

yep, he has been given loads of stick by his share holders and the stock exchange (after taking their money) and refuses to communicate with any of them only referring to them as “cry babies” – which is probably what the t*** thinks of NUFC fans – “cry babies”.

 

which is a true reflection on quite a few tbh.

 

The truth hurts Mr OK.  You just watch how he behaves from now on towards us.  Eventually you will all realise what he (our owner) thinks of us (and that includes even YOU)

[Baggio]

Wait and see who they come up with as a replacement.

 

And if that replacement is a knacker?

 

Then I'll lose faith in them, I'll judge the next manager on what he does on the pitch rather than how big a name he is.

 

The club, directors and the fans all need to move on for all of our benefit, this situation has only blown up so much because it's KK in charge, which is something Ashley will have to deal with as he was happy to take the credit for bringing him back.

 

 

 

Well so far he seems to like to employ people known within his circle of friends so I am not sure I have much confidence that he is scouring the world to fond the right man. Lets see though.

The reference somewhere tonight of Llambias being a good friends with David O'Leary scares the Bejeezus out of me

 

That's why I said I'll judge them on what they do on the pitch, I don't care if it's one of his mates as long as we play well.

 

will regular european football for a few years do for his legendary status ?

 

Who's going to be his yes man

 

 

 

:lol:

[manorpark]

I think it's shocking that no words of explanation have come out to the fans, they're a bunch of f***ing cowards and anyone who wants them still here are off their heads.

 

I'm hoping this silence and lack of appointment for the Managers position is down to Ashley's selling.

 

He thinks (no, he 'knows') that we are irrelevant to him, so he has (and always will) treat us like an irrelevancy . .  ie, like sh*t.

 

were you saying he treat us like s*** before KK left?

 

He behaved well towards us back then. He had NO REASON not to.  He has a reason 'not to' now (as he now knows what most of us think of him).

[TRon]

I really can't see how anyone can say its a bad thing that the interest payments have been removed from the club

 

It's not a bad thing at all, but it's only a good thing if those savings in interest payments are reinvested into the club.

 

Would that include ploughing money in the academy and in signing youth players?

 

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just moving a point along but to a lot on here reinvestment in the club ONLY seems to involve signing players for the first team now.

 

I would suggest (as indeed many others also do) that we need investment into the here and now and also for the future. It would appear that the future has been the boards priority right now.

 

Oh certainly, as long as it as spent wisely and not at too much of a detriment to the immediate needs of the first team. If you or anyone have figures for how much the spending on the academy has increased under Ashley, then you'd certainly improve your arguments for how well the club is being run.

 

However I'd also say that at this time I personally would not be convinced that any improvements in this area were motivated by a desire to make the club successful on the pitch as much as by a desire to sell them on for a profit later.

 

Having the player for 3-5 years and benefitting from their rise to stardom > never having the player and not being able to compete on price for them with Man U/Chelsea when they reach their peak tbh.

 

Sure, but there's a massive difference between developing players like Arsenal or Man U, hanging on to the best and moving on the one's who don't quite cut it, and eg Ipswich or the old days of West Ham where you develop some really good young players but sell them on as soon as they show some promise and are just a feeder club. The contract situation and subsequent sale of Milner (who I consider was out best young player) don't fill me with confidence that we will be following the first route.

 

Everyone sees things coloured by their own opinion. I would class Milner as one of the ones you described as not quite cutting it and being moved on, so not a great example of this proving we are becoming a feeder club. He's hardly a Waddle or a Gascoigne.

 

If you're expecting a conveyor belt of players better than Milner to come rolling off the academy production line, then I think you're setting massively high expectations for it and will be waiting an awfully long time.

 

Milner was a first team player under a number of managers, and is obviously highly regarded by people more qualified to rate him than you or I, yet he was seen as not important enough to keep happy with what I am sure were quite modest contract demands, and was sold not because we had someone better to replace him with, but simply for profit.

 

Milner out for £12m and Jonas in for quite a bit less seems like a fantastic piece of business to me. I find it difficult to fault the club on that I have to say.

[Baggio]

If you're expecting a conveyor belt of players better than Milner to come rolling off the academy production line, then I think you're setting massively high expectations for it and will be waiting an awfully long time.

 

Milner was a first team player under a number of managers, and is obviously highly regarded by people more qualified to rate him than you or I, yet he was seen as not important enough to keep happy with what I am sure were quite modest contract demands, and was sold not because we had someone better to replace him with, but simply for profit.

 

The 'being highly regarded by people more qualified than you or I' is a convenient thing to throw in to try and strengthen your point, how many managers have rated Shola? Does that mean we're all wrong because the likes of Sir Bobby thought he was quality? That's really clutching at straws.

 

The fact is the club now has N'Zogbia and Duff down the left and Jonas and Geremi down the right, I can't remember a time we've ever started a season this better off for wide men, can you?