Jonas Gutierrez

[madras]

Didn't think he was that bad yesterday. Created alot of chances but the final product was off. Think he'd be better in right mid.

 

He didn't create a lot of chances, he wasted a lot though.

 

He did. On the other wing, Duff didn't create anything which is equally worrying but he's escaping criticism because at least he scored a goal. But it's still a problem which needs addressing.

 

I find it stupid that they both played on opposite sides to their natural foot. Duff doesn't have a right-foot at all, now I know he did play there for Chelsea but it's a bit different being in that position with the options he had and being in ours. Duff should at least play on the left and Jonas on the right. Btw I thought Duff played well in the second half when he came in more centrally.

 

The idea is for them to cut in onto their stronger foot and send in a inswinging cross which are generally a bit more difficult to defend against from that position, or to take a strike.

 

Neither of them seemed to do that, so in general I would agree, put them on the flanks that suit their stronger foot.

 

I disagree that the most difficult crosses to defend are those after cutting inside, i think most goals are scored when the winger goes past the full back and either cuts it back or whips it across the face of the goal. Jonas beat the full back consistently which was good but his crosses were weak and as has been mentioned the movement from the forwards was terrible.

 

 

i think fewer and fewer goals are scored from either sort of wing play in the final third and it's something we haven't been able to let go since ginola/gillespie.

[TRon]

Didn't think he was that bad yesterday. Created alot of chances but the final product was off. Think he'd be better in right mid.

 

He didn't create a lot of chances, he wasted a lot though.

 

He did. On the other wing, Duff didn't create anything which is equally worrying but he's escaping criticism because at least he scored a goal. But it's still a problem which needs addressing.

 

I find it stupid that they both played on opposite sides to their natural foot. Duff doesn't have a right-foot at all, now I know he did play there for Chelsea but it's a bit different being in that position with the options he had and being in ours. Duff should at least play on the left and Jonas on the right. Btw I thought Duff played well in the second half when he came in more centrally.

 

The idea is for them to cut in onto their stronger foot and send in a inswinging cross which are generally a bit more difficult to defend against from that position, or to take a strike.

 

Neither of them seemed to do that, so in general I would agree, put them on the flanks that suit their stronger foot.

 

I disagree that the most difficult crosses to defend are those after cutting inside, i think most goals are scored when the winger goes past the full back and either cuts it back or whips it across the face of the goal. Jonas beat the full back consistently which was good but his crosses were weak and as has been mentioned the movement from the forwards was terrible.

 

 

i think fewer and fewer goals are scored from either sort of wing play in the final third and it's something we haven't been able to let go since ginola/gillespie.

 

You can't rely on just one method of scoring goals but you need to have all the options and goals from wide play are one of them.

[Belfast Boy]

It goes without saying that Jonas had no end product yesterday, but I think this is mainly due to confidence in both himself, and more importantly his teammates. There was one pass in particular where he was wanting Ryan Taylor to move down the wing into space, he waited and waited, eventually playing the ball out of play, where Taylor should have been. His face then just said to me he had had enough of playing in such a shit team. That was the moment to take him off for Lua Lua for me. He needs a manager who will work with him, build his confidence and encourage him.

It is all to easy to hound him out and say he brings nothing to the team, but what do we replace him with? Most likely a Butt, a Nolan or a Duff. He is a long way off what he could be, but he is still our most creative player.

[Guest Heneage]

He lacks end product true, but his running makes space for those around him, he works tremendously with Enrique.

[Guest gggg]

It is all to easy to hound him out and say he brings nothing to the team, but what do we replace him with? Most likely a Butt, a Nolan or a Duff. He is a long way off what he could be, but he is still our most creative player.

 

Replacing him with players who score and create more sounds good to me. Most creative player my arse, Duff had more attempts at goal yesterday than Jonas has had in his career.

[TRon]

It is all to easy to hound him out and say he brings nothing to the team, but what do we replace him with? Most likely a Butt, a Nolan or a Duff. He is a long way off what he could be, but he is still our most creative player.

 

Replacing him with players who score and create more sounds good to me. Most creative player my arse, Duff had more attempts at goal yesterday than Jonas has had in his career.

 

True but Duff didn't do his job as a winger which is to provide service to the front men. Can you remember any crosses or passes through to the forwards? Duff got the goal but other than that he provided no width at all - at least Jonas did that part right.

 

 

 

[Guest johny2k]

Didn't think he was that bad yesterday. Created alot of chances but the final product was off. Think he'd be better in right mid.

 

He didn't create a lot of chances, he wasted a lot though.

 

He did. On the other wing, Duff didn't create anything which is equally worrying but he's escaping criticism because at least he scored a goal. But it's still a problem which needs addressing.

 

I find it stupid that they both played on opposite sides to their natural foot. Duff doesn't have a right-foot at all, now I know he did play there for Chelsea but it's a bit different being in that position with the options he had and being in ours. Duff should at least play on the left and Jonas on the right. Btw I thought Duff played well in the second half when he came in more centrally.

 

The idea is for them to cut in onto their stronger foot and send in a inswinging cross which are generally a bit more difficult to defend against from that position, or to take a strike.

 

Neither of them seemed to do that, so in general I would agree, put them on the flanks that suit their stronger foot.

 

I disagree that the most difficult crosses to defend are those after cutting inside, i think most goals are scored when the winger goes past the full back and either cuts it back or whips it across the face of the goal. Jonas beat the full back consistently which was good but his crosses were weak and as has been mentioned the movement from the forwards was terrible.

 

 

i think fewer and fewer goals are scored from either sort of wing play in the final third and it's something we haven't been able to let go since ginola/gillespie.

 

Robert and Solano got shit loads of assists after Ginola & Gillespie, but i take you point. Definately worth giving Xisco a go, at least his movement is half decent from what i can remember

[Guest firetotheworks]

A very good player who needs to be managed correctly to improve his game. Sort out final delivery, problem solved.

[Ronaldo]

He's a 26 year old winger who can't cross, to say good management will correct this problem is being a tad optermistic

[M4]

Plus you get the feeling he's just going to get more and more frustrated and frustrating in this league.

[LucaAltieri]

I think we'd get more out of Jonas if he was playing on the left hand side of a front 3. Somewhere he's not playing too wide and isn't crossing from the by-line. In that role he can still chase things down, stretch the play, and would only need to play simple balls into the box.

 

Of course we've got no one for the same role on the right-hand side. And players in that role can usually finish themselves too. But it's still probably better than playing him as an out and out winger.

[Guest firetotheworks]

He's a 26 year old winger who can't cross, to say good management will correct this problem is being a tad optermistic

 

You never stop learning though. Shearer was older when he wasn't scoring goals and needed to be coached by Robson, and obviously he's more of a player than Jonas is. Based on that, and a whole host of other players who have been rejuvinated while in the twilight of their career, I dont think its optimistic at all. He delivers (no pun intended) when he's playing for Argentina because he plays in a different way.

[M4]

I also think in reality he's a right back really. Great a getting the ball off people, shielding it, keeping the ball, passing it up but almost hopeless after the half way line.

[Ronaldo]

He's a 26 year old winger who can't cross, to say good management will correct this problem is being a tad optermistic

 

You never stop learning though. Shearer was older when he wasn't scoring goals and needed to be coached by Robson, and obviously he's more of a player than Jonas is. Based on that, and a whole host of other players who have been rejuvinated while in the twilight of their career, I dont think its optimistic at all. He delivers (no pun intended) when he's playing for Argentina because he plays in a different way.

 

Shearer just needed the team to play to his strengths, and abandon the target man role somewhat. Jonas actually needs to learn how to kick a football at 26.

[Guest firetotheworks]

He's a 26 year old winger who can't cross, to say good management will correct this problem is being a tad optermistic

 

You never stop learning though. Shearer was older when he wasn't scoring goals and needed to be coached by Robson, and obviously he's more of a player than Jonas is. Based on that, and a whole host of other players who have been rejuvinated while in the twilight of their career, I dont think its optimistic at all. He delivers (no pun intended) when he's playing for Argentina because he plays in a different way.

 

Shearer just needed the team to play to his strengths, and abandon the target man role somewhat. Jonas actually needs to learn how to kick a football at 26.

 

I see your still one for thoroughly reasonable debate then...

[BONTEMPI]

Thing he needs most is to be more direct.

 

He's like most south americans where he wants the perfect goal all the time. I think he should be played just behind the front 2 and be told to shoot on sight.

 

 

A formation like this for the next match

 

 

 

                  Krul

 

Gerami  Taylor  Kadar    Enrique

 

 

Raylor      Smith        Duff

 

                Jonas

 

          Caroll  Ranger 

[Ronaldo]

I'd love for Jonas to become a good crosser, but despite approaching his peak as a winger, he strikes the ball as weakly as anyone i've seen at nufc, and the accuracy is just woeful man.

[Dinho lad]

I'd love for Jonas to become a good crosser, but despite approaching his peak as a winger, he strikes the ball as weakly as anyone i've seen at nufc, and the accuracy is just woeful man.

 

Bramble is quite good at kicking a football, too.

[Ronaldo]

I'd love for Jonas to become a good crosser, but despite approaching his peak as a winger, he strikes the ball as weakly as anyone i've seen at nufc, and the accuracy is just woeful man.

 

Bramble is quite good at kicking a football, too.

 

how is that relevant?

[Guest Stephen927]

He's a 26 year old winger who can't cross, to say good management will correct this problem is being a tad optermistic

 

You never stop learning though. Shearer was older when he wasn't scoring goals and needed to be coached by Robson, and obviously he's more of a player than Jonas is. Based on that, and a whole host of other players who have been rejuvinated while in the twilight of their career, I dont think its optimistic at all. He delivers (no pun intended) when he's playing for Argentina because he plays in a different way.

 

The difference being that Shearer was a good finisher before Robson rejuvenated him, Jonas has never been able to cross.

[Howaythelads]

Gutierrez was a liability most of the time on Saturday.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Gutierrez was a liability most of the time on Saturday.

 

Too harsh, he kept the pressure on West Brom far more than any other player IMO.

[NewJerseyMag]

A winger who cannot cross the football. Enough said.

[Ketsbaia]

if only we can play him somewhere where his constant running is a benefit, without worrying about crossing. unfortunately, CM doesnt seem right and we're well covered there.

[NG32]

Maybe, play him off Caroll and ask him to hold the ball once Caroll has knocked it down, or may continue with the ball at his feet and drive into the box drawing fouls left right and centre.

 

Oh fck it i dont know what to do with him.