Jonas Gutierrez

[Guest Taff]

There is a point if we have nobody of any quality to replace him.  Its all fine and well to complain he can't cross or shoot, but if we replace him with a reserve player who can't cross, shoot, beat a player or stretch the opposition then we're in an even worse position.

 

This

[Leazes1986]

Unless we can get someone cheaper in who has the ability to beat players and make a bit of space then we need to keep him. Its frustrating as hell when he does the hard bit but fails to deliver the final ball but as it stands we have no alternative. I'd be happy for him to leave if we can find a pacey winger to replace him but if not then we need to keep him. I reckon he  might end up with a fair few assists this season if we keep him. He obviously can't cross for shit, but just with his ability to beat players I think he will open up a fair few of the poor defences in this division and if he's got someone like Barton (and hopefully a new striker) pushing on then then he will find them a lot more times than he would have least season against Premiership defences. He was guilty of failing to deliver again on Saturday but the lack of options in the middle was disgraceful. Lets face it, if we sell him and don't buy a winger then its gonna be Ryan Taylor or Guthrie on the right.

[bowlingcrofty]

Get him out, he's gubbins. He adds about as much as Ryan Taylor.

[Leazes1986]

Get him out, he's gubbins. He adds about as much as Ryan Taylor.

 

Rubbish.

[relámpago blanco]

Get him out, he's gubbins. He adds about as much as Ryan Taylor.

Absoulte tosh,  he can't cross but if you play to his strengths, i.e. not making him cross he's useful, can beat a man and is very good at slide rule passes.

[bowlingcrofty]

How can ZERO goals and ONE assist in an entire season suggest anything otherwise?

 

A winger who can't cross, who will take on his man over and over again until he loses it, and has a complete inability to correctly strike a football (just like Shola)?

 

He's a waste of player on the pitch, who will put less and less effort in as the match goes on, until he finally sits on the floor whinging to the ref.

 

Even if we flog him for nowt we'll have done well.

[Mowen]

Get him out, he's gubbins. He adds about as much as Ryan Taylor.

Absoulte tosh,  he can't cross but if you play to his strengths, i.e. not making him cross he's useful, can beat a man and is very good at slide rule passes.

 

He's a winger who can't put a cross in. Makes him a fairly shit winger. People say he should play through the middle, but when he did that against Stoke he was worse than useless. He clearly has some attributes but he's added very, very little to the team and was poor against West Brom. I'm not sure he's actually any good at slide rule passes, I can only recall seeing him make one in his time at Newcastle.

[Leazes1986]

How can ZERO goals and ONE assist in an entire season suggest anything otherwise?

 

A winger who can't cross, who will take on his man over and over again until he loses it, and has a complete inability to correctly strike a football (just like Shola)?

 

He's a waste of player on the pitch, who will put less and less effort in as the match goes on, until he finally sits on the floor whinging to the ref.

 

Even if we flog him for nowt we'll have done well.

 

Well for one he got more than one assist last season. The only alternatives are R.Taylor and Guthrie. Them two have a better delivery than him, but they don't have any pace or have much ability to take on a full back. If we lose Jonas and use one of them two as a winger then we losing the unique things Jonas does have compared to most of the other players (pace, ability to beat players, ability to stretch teams), and we are swapping it for a make shift winger who won't open up teams at all going foward. Lua Lua is not an option either despite what some people seem to think. The lad is only young and apart from the fact that he will not be ready for a 46+ match season, he will also proably only give us what Jonas gives us but less consistently. I haven't seen much of him, but from what I hear he is quick with an ability to beat players, but his end product is lacking. He's only young and that can be worked on, but he's certainly not the answer short term. Its simple really. Buy a replacement or keep Jonas. We have nobody at this club who can come in for Jonas and make us a better team in his position.

 

 

 

[relámpago blanco]

Get him out, he's gubbins. He adds about as much as Ryan Taylor.

Absoulte tosh,  he can't cross but if you play to his strengths, i.e. not making him cross he's useful, can beat a man and is very good at slide rule passes.

 

He's a winger who can't put a cross in. Makes him a fairly s*** winger. People say he should play through the middle, but when he did that against Stoke he was worse than useless. He clearly has some attributes but he's added very, very little to the team and was poor against West Brom. I'm not sure he's actually any good at slide rule passes, I can only recall seeing him make one in his time at Newcastle.

Maybe he shouldn't play on the wing then, in his first game against Man U under KEegan he was class,  we were all going mental and then when he left and we didn't play to his strengths he started to play rubbish.

[Mowen]

Get him out, he's gubbins. He adds about as much as Ryan Taylor.

Absoulte tosh,  he can't cross but if you play to his strengths, i.e. not making him cross he's useful, can beat a man and is very good at slide rule passes.

 

He's a winger who can't put a cross in. Makes him a fairly s*** winger. People say he should play through the middle, but when he did that against Stoke he was worse than useless. He clearly has some attributes but he's added very, very little to the team and was poor against West Brom. I'm not sure he's actually any good at slide rule passes, I can only recall seeing him make one in his time at Newcastle.

Maybe he shouldn't play on the wing then, in his first game against Man U under KEegan he was class,  we were all going mental and then when he left and we didn't play to his strengths he started to play rubbish.

 

Where, if not on the wing though? He looked superb against ManU but has failed to develop and flattered to deceive apart from the odd spark all season. I only counted 3 assists all year (Villa, Pompey, Stoke) and from an attacking wide player that's shocking. He doesn't ever look like contributing in the final third, does all of his work in the middle third before (more often than not) falling over and having a 50/50 chance of winning a free kick.

[Parky]

Get ball, run anywhere - lose ball.

[Mowen]

Get ball, run anywhere - lose ball.

 

His inability to distribute with any accuracy often means the only way he can maintain posession is by winning a free kick.

[Jayson]

When you think that we got him because he had the most assists in la liga & he has played quite a bit for Argentina and done fine. That would suggest that hes not as bad as he comes across.

 

Its the same reason i used to back up owen tbh. People focus on the player and avoid looking at any reason why the player could be underperforming. Ie Owen gets no through balls, the crosses to him are disasterous, he gets barely any chances to touch the ball let alone on goal, so when he does finally get one his confidence is gone etc. Most see this as "Owen is now crap". I see this as Owen being seriously starved of any decent service.....and alright hes prob not as good as he used to be. Hes still a better finisher than most.

 

Same with Guti here. All the evidence outside of playing for Newcastle would suggest that this guy CAN set up goals. So what is the difference when playing for us??? He's mostly surrounded by morons. Thats the difference. Once again...alright hes probably not the best crosser in the world either. But if when hes bursting out from our area hes got other players breaking with him & not 10 yards behind, we'd be commending him for all the counters he sets up. But instead he has to slow down completely & wait for them to catch up, pass backwards....or go it alone around the outside of the nearest defender...most likely get fouled and flop on the ground to try and get us an advantage. Then when he does get the chances to cross 80% of them dont reach a Newcastle player....so that must be Guti's fault for his crap crossing. When in reality about 50% that dont go to our lads are put in decent areas & our fowards are just standing 1 yard away from eachother instead of getting into the dangerous positions. This happened a lot of times on Sat - but all people notice is....ball...wrong player....the crossers fault. Then you have the fact that people are more likely to remember the bad crosses than the decent ones & it goes on.

 

Hes one of our better players in reality. We'd be a worse side without him.

[Ronaldo]

to be honest, I wouldn't really acknowledge the selection for Argentina as meaning much. The cheating midget wanker doesn't even pick Higuain

[Teasy]

How can ZERO goals and ONE assist in an entire season suggest anything otherwise?

 

A winger who can't cross, who will take on his man over and over again until he loses it, and has a complete inability to correctly strike a football (just like Shola)?

 

He's a waste of player on the pitch, who will put less and less effort in as the match goes on, until he finally sits on the floor whinging to the ref.

 

Even if we flog him for nowt we'll have done well.

 

Might want to get your facts straight before posting anything quite as silly as that like.

[Mowen]

How can ZERO goals and ONE assist in an entire season suggest anything otherwise?

 

A winger who can't cross, who will take on his man over and over again until he loses it, and has a complete inability to correctly strike a football (just like Shola)?

 

He's a waste of player on the pitch, who will put less and less effort in as the match goes on, until he finally sits on the floor whinging to the ref.

 

Even if we flog him for nowt we'll have done well.

 

Might want to get your facts straight before posting anything quite as silly as that like.

 

Not much wrong with the second paragraph mind.

[Ronaldo]

comparing him to Shola is an injustice to any footballer, sunday league or higher

[Jayson]

Having said all that, id not mind if we gave someone like Lualua or Baheng a go.

 

Just because i dont see our movement getting better any time soon & i think we need someone whos capable of scoring a goal from midfield other than Duff.

Or someone who cuts inside from the wing, cos Jonas seems to avoid that endlessly.

[Mowen]

comparing him to Shola is an injustice to any footballer, sunday league or higher

 

Shola can trap a ball further than Jonas can kick it.

[SEMTEX]

Won fuckloads of FKs. More than the a great deal of the rest of the Prem last season.

 

We do fuck all with them.

[TRon]

When you think that we got him because he had the most assists in la liga & he has played quite a bit for Argentina and done fine. That would suggest that hes not as bad as he comes across.

 

Its the same reason i used to back up owen tbh. People focus on the player and avoid looking at any reason why the player could be underperforming. Ie Owen gets no through balls, the crosses to him are disasterous, he gets barely any chances to touch the ball let alone on goal, so when he does finally get one his confidence is gone etc. Most see this as "Owen is now crap". I see this as Owen being seriously starved of any decent service.....and alright hes prob not as good as he used to be. Hes still a better finisher than most.

 

Same with Guti here. All the evidence outside of playing for Newcastle would suggest that this guy CAN set up goals. So what is the difference when playing for us??? He's mostly surrounded by morons. Thats the difference. Once again...alright hes probably not the best crosser in the world either. But if when hes bursting out from our area hes got other players breaking with him & not 10 yards behind, we'd be commending him for all the counters he sets up. But instead he has to slow down completely & wait for them to catch up, pass backwards....or go it alone around the outside of the nearest defender...most likely get fouled and flop on the ground to try and get us an advantage. Then when he does get the chances to cross 80% of them dont reach a Newcastle player....so that must be Guti's fault for his crap crossing. When in reality about 50% that dont go to our lads are put in decent areas & our fowards are just standing 1 yard away from eachother instead of getting into the dangerous positions. This happened a lot of times on Sat - but all people notice is....ball...wrong player....the crossers fault. Then you have the fact that people are more likely to remember the bad crosses than the decent ones & it goes on.

 

Hes one of our better players in reality. We'd be a worse side without him.

 

Pretty good post that. While I agree with the criticism that his crossing is very poor, one of the reasons we dominated posession against West Brom was Jonas' involvement. In the first half everything went through him and Enrique and Duff was virtually a spectator on the other wing. If Jonas had hid in that half I think we'd have struggled to control the game.

 

In any case do we really have any alternatives?

[Mowen]

When you think that we got him because he had the most assists in la liga & he has played quite a bit for Argentina and done fine. That would suggest that hes not as bad as he comes across.

 

Its the same reason i used to back up owen tbh. People focus on the player and avoid looking at any reason why the player could be underperforming. Ie Owen gets no through balls, the crosses to him are disasterous, he gets barely any chances to touch the ball let alone on goal, so when he does finally get one his confidence is gone etc. Most see this as "Owen is now crap". I see this as Owen being seriously starved of any decent service.....and alright hes prob not as good as he used to be. Hes still a better finisher than most.

 

Same with Guti here. All the evidence outside of playing for Newcastle would suggest that this guy CAN set up goals. So what is the difference when playing for us??? He's mostly surrounded by morons. Thats the difference. Once again...alright hes probably not the best crosser in the world either. But if when hes bursting out from our area hes got other players breaking with him & not 10 yards behind, we'd be commending him for all the counters he sets up. But instead he has to slow down completely & wait for them to catch up, pass backwards....or go it alone around the outside of the nearest defender...most likely get fouled and flop on the ground to try and get us an advantage. Then when he does get the chances to cross 80% of them dont reach a Newcastle player....so that must be Guti's fault for his crap crossing. When in reality about 50% that dont go to our lads are put in decent areas & our fowards are just standing 1 yard away from eachother instead of getting into the dangerous positions. This happened a lot of times on Sat - but all people notice is....ball...wrong player....the crossers fault. Then you have the fact that people are more likely to remember the bad crosses than the decent ones & it goes on.

 

Hes one of our better players in reality. We'd be a worse side without him.

 

Hang on...Owen has the ability to score and Jonas the ability to assist when alongside other good players. Why weren't the feckers linking up last season then?

[Teasy]

How can ZERO goals and ONE assist in an entire season suggest anything otherwise?

 

A winger who can't cross, who will take on his man over and over again until he loses it, and has a complete inability to correctly strike a football (just like Shola)?

 

He's a waste of player on the pitch, who will put less and less effort in as the match goes on, until he finally sits on the floor whinging to the ref.

 

Even if we flog him for nowt we'll have done well.

 

Might want to get your facts straight before posting anything quite as silly as that like.

 

Not much wrong with the second paragraph mind.

 

I don't really agree but I'm bored of discussing it, I have my opinion and others have theirs and they're not going to change.  As long as people get their facts right I'm staying away

[TRon]

When you think that we got him because he had the most assists in la liga & he has played quite a bit for Argentina and done fine. That would suggest that hes not as bad as he comes across.

 

Its the same reason i used to back up owen tbh. People focus on the player and avoid looking at any reason why the player could be underperforming. Ie Owen gets no through balls, the crosses to him are disasterous, he gets barely any chances to touch the ball let alone on goal, so when he does finally get one his confidence is gone etc. Most see this as "Owen is now crap". I see this as Owen being seriously starved of any decent service.....and alright hes prob not as good as he used to be. Hes still a better finisher than most.

 

Same with Guti here. All the evidence outside of playing for Newcastle would suggest that this guy CAN set up goals. So what is the difference when playing for us??? He's mostly surrounded by morons. Thats the difference. Once again...alright hes probably not the best crosser in the world either. But if when hes bursting out from our area hes got other players breaking with him & not 10 yards behind, we'd be commending him for all the counters he sets up. But instead he has to slow down completely & wait for them to catch up, pass backwards....or go it alone around the outside of the nearest defender...most likely get fouled and flop on the ground to try and get us an advantage. Then when he does get the chances to cross 80% of them dont reach a Newcastle player....so that must be Guti's fault for his crap crossing. When in reality about 50% that dont go to our lads are put in decent areas & our fowards are just standing 1 yard away from eachother instead of getting into the dangerous positions. This happened a lot of times on Sat - but all people notice is....ball...wrong player....the crossers fault. Then you have the fact that people are more likely to remember the bad crosses than the decent ones & it goes on.

 

Hes one of our better players in reality. We'd be a worse side without him.

 

Hang on...Owen has the ability to score and Jonas the ability to assist when alongside other good players. Why weren't the feckers linking up last season then?

 

Who were the other two midfielders?

[Jayson]

They did a few times.

Owen generally just got marked out of the game towards the end, his movement went downhill...maybe demotivated with not getting it when he made decent runs.

Plus Martins didnt have the best movement either, so he'd often just be standing right next to Owen...instead of pulling defenders away from eachother.