Shepherd Legacy

[macbeth]

Ok, I’ve had a quick look at the accounts….

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date – I think it’s a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants – government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front – this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there – probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received – There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this – although it is implied that they agree with Chris Mort’s comments in the director’s report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities – and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a ‘going concern’ (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadn’t bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred – and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know it’s a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

 

 

Thanks, excellent stuff.

 

I think all the Northern Rock money was up front. I think it is the £13.1m fixed rate loan mentioned in note 14.

 

The £3m for the financing seems very expensive.

 

The loss for 2007 was £32.9m, compared to £12m the previous year. The main issue was player wages, I doubt we manage to make much difference to that during 2008, may have done so at season end, but not really on the way through.

 

The deferred income at the end of 2006 was £24.6m which ultimately became £33.6m in matchday revenue. We had 10 Cup matches that year (Interoto, Uefa, LC and FA Cup). I think all the season ticket money was in the deferred income and the Cup money, and visiting fan made up the difference. The Cup game bringing in £800k per game ??

For 2008 season we had one LC and one FA Cup game at home. I'd expect this to mean about 200,000 paying fans less at Cup games so say £4+m less income compared to previous year ?

 

The other big drop in income for 2008 was the loss of the £6.7m of insurance money on Owen. The annual exceptional chartge known as "change in team management" was probably higher, as Allardyce was getting more than Roeder.

 

The only big plus to the books would be the reduction in interest payments from Ashley paying off the debt, saving the club roughly £8.3m. These savings would not have been available to Shepherd

 

With Ashley owning I struggle to see the loss being much better than £15m-£20m. With Shepherd it would have been £8m worse.

 

You didn't touch on the cash position. I don't understand how this all works, so it'd be great if you could have a look. The accounts just have a raw figure saying Cash of £198k, down from £10.5m the same time the previous year, and £13.4m the previous year. This doesn't look good but I have no feel for what it really means

 

[danswan]

I agree with everything Scott Parker's 60's Haircut's said so far, he seems to have a good understanding on the whole concept, and speaks a great deal of sense.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

I agree with everything Scott Parker's 60's Haircut's said so far, he seems to have a good understanding on the whole concept, and speaks a great deal of sense.

 

Watch it - I'll quote you!

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Ok, Ive had a quick look at the accounts.

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date I think its a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this although it is implied that they agree with Chris Morts comments in the directors report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a going concern (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadnt bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know its a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

 

 

Thanks, excellent stuff.

 

I think all the Northern Rock money was up front. I think it is the £13.1m fixed rate loan mentioned in note 14.

 

The £3m for the financing seems very expensive.

 

The loss for 2007 was £32.9m, compared to £12m the previous year. The main issue was player wages, I doubt we manage to make much difference to that during 2008, may have done so at season end, but not really on the way through.

 

The deferred income at the end of 2006 was £24.6m which ultimately became £33.6m in matchday revenue. We had 10 Cup matches that year (Interoto, Uefa, LC and FA Cup). I think all the season ticket money was in the deferred income and the Cup money, and visiting fan made up the difference. The Cup game bringing in £800k per game ??

For 2008 season we had one LC and one FA Cup game at home. I'd expect this to mean about 200,000 paying fans less at Cup games so say £4+m less income compared to previous year ?

 

The other big drop in income for 2008 was the loss of the £6.7m of insurance money on Owen. The annual exceptional chartge known as "change in team management" was probably higher, as Allardyce was getting more than Roeder.

 

The only big plus to the books would be the reduction in interest payments from Ashley paying off the debt, saving the club roughly £8.3m. These savings would not have been available to Shepherd

 

With Ashley owning I struggle to see the loss being much better than £15m-£20m. With Shepherd it would have been £8m worse.

 

You didn't touch on the cash position. I don't understand how this all works, so it'd be great if you could have a look. The accounts just have a raw figure saying Cash of £198k, down from £10.5m the same time the previous year, and £13.4m the previous year. This doesn't look good but I have no feel for what it really means

 

I'll try and have a look tomorrow, but it may be Wednesday as I'm a bit busy in work

[afar]

Well I'm still bored to death of this "accountant's dream" thread.

[Guest Edd]

should be able to get the 2007 accounts from http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/nufc2007.pdf

 

just for you -  a pound cheaper than from Companies House   

 

well, after all the scaremongering you've done about us becoming another Leeds through overspending etc it will be interesting [or not in my case anyway] to see you and those who have made links etc to your site, explain how we are heading the way of Leeds because of underinvestment in the team

 

 

 

I thought they taught grammar in the 60s ??

 

I need help with your question/statement. Do you think we are looking bad cos we ran out of money ? Are you trying to say we looked really good under Shepherd cos he spent £114m more thn he took in, in just 11 years. Shepherd was in control up June 2007

 

I'm just trying to clarify

 

I didn't realise this was under examination conditions. Your own piece is a master of literacy.

 

Go on, quit sidestepping and answer his questions.  You know you want to.

[NE5]

should be able to get the 2007 accounts from http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/nufc2007.pdf

 

just for you -  a pound cheaper than from Companies House   

 

well, after all the scaremongering you've done about us becoming another Leeds through overspending etc it will be interesting [or not in my case anyway] to see you and those who have made links etc to your site, explain how we are heading the way of Leeds because of underinvestment in the team

 

 

 

I thought they taught grammar in the 60s ??

 

I need help with your question/statement. Do you think we are looking bad cos we ran out of money ? Are you trying to say we looked really good under Shepherd cos he spent £114m more thn he took in, in just 11 years. Shepherd was in control up June 2007

 

I'm just trying to clarify

 

I didn't realise this was under examination conditions. Your own piece is a master of literacy.

 

Go on, quit sidestepping and answer his questions.  You know you want to.

 

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

macbeth quite simply doesn't understand that football success isn't gained by putting balance sheets before speculation on quality players. The reality check has been posted on numerous occasions. I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Ashley's preference for balance sheets is going to relegate us. This is why Keegan left. Are you so blind you can't see this ? Care to comment on the rather strange happening that people like him have been insisting for 10 years we were going bankrupt, and more recently "doing a Leeds", when the only thing that is now propelling us in the direction of Leeds is the prudent board, presiding over lack of expenditure on the first team squad, that is "doing a Leeds".

 

I did ask mick this question, but true to form, he avoided it.

 

I'm not interested in macbeth mate, or anything he says. Sorry like.

 

 

[sicsfingeredmong]

should be able to get the 2007 accounts from http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/nufc2007.pdf

 

just for you -  a pound cheaper than from Companies House 

 

well, after all the scaremongering you've done about us becoming another Leeds through overspending etc it will be interesting [or not in my case anyway] to see you and those who have made links etc to your site, explain how we are heading the way of Leeds because of underinvestment in the team

 

 

 

I thought they taught grammar in the 60s ??

 

I need help with your question/statement. Do you think we are looking bad cos we ran out of money ? Are you trying to say we looked really good under Shepherd cos he spent £114m more thn he took in, in just 11 years. Shepherd was in control up June 2007

 

I'm just trying to clarify

 

I didn't realise this was under examination conditions. Your own piece is a master of literacy.

 

Go on, quit sidestepping and answer his questions.  You know you want to.

 

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

macbeth quite simply doesn't understand that football success isn't gained by putting balance sheets before speculation on quality players. The reality check has been posted on numerous occasions. I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Ashley's preference for balance sheets is going to relegate us. This is why Keegan left. Are you so blind you can't see this ? Care to comment on the rather strange happening that people like him have been insisting for 10 years we were going bankrupt, and more recently "doing a Leeds", when the only thing that is now propelling us in the direction of Leeds is the prudent board, presiding over lack of expenditure on the first team squad, that is "doing a Leeds".

 

I did ask mick this question, but true to form, he avoided it.

 

I'm not interested in macbeth mate, or anything he says. Sorry like.

 

 

 

Enough to convince Man Utd's board to restructure their finances in order to secure Rooney's signature a year ahead of schedule, as they were at the time biding their time ie. waiting for next Summer/or January where they would have got a Stretford tapped-up player for a lower fee.

 

The antithesis scenario: United's board roll over and allow Rooney to drop into our lap & lose a quality player whom they can build their frontline around for the next ten years or thereabouts, rather than compromise the strength of their balance sheets at the time.

 

Enough to convince us to pay for Woodgate over the course of two instalmets. The second instalment was paid, or due to be paid a year after we completed his player registration papers. Enough to convince us to enter a similar arrangement as per Owen although it was borrowed against forthcoming sponsorship money and the repayment schedule was drawn out over a longer timeframe.

 

Looking back at Owen's impact, and the key goals he scored for us amidst two years where we've avoided the swing of the relegation axe. I've slept easily despite Ashley's belly aching of having to pay the remaining instalments - ie. incurred debt courtesy of Shepherd - as opposed to the club going to the wall minus Owen's aforementioned impact if the club hadn't bought him.

 

On a further note with regards to the mooted quick firesale of Owen in January - ie. negotiated prior to Jan - at a knockdown price to recoup something rather than allow him to move for nothing. Balance the true cost of relegation, and this would be result if the club's only proven 'predatory' goalscorer is offloaded on the eve of or in the midst of a relegation fight, against the recoupment of a couple of million pounds or so. It's lunacy which is dismissive of the bigger picture, and it's a trait of a spreadsheet-orientated owner - ie. as already highlighted by the board in their failed attempt to sell him on the final day of the Summer's window with an already threadbare strikeforce in place

 

It's been dismissed as a being a 'flame' remark, but as i've said before 'Spreadsheeters of Ashley's ilk have no place on the football landscape'......club ownership in particular.

[Guest Edd]

should be able to get the 2007 accounts from http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/nufc2007.pdf

 

just for you -  a pound cheaper than from Companies House   

 

well, after all the scaremongering you've done about us becoming another Leeds through overspending etc it will be interesting [or not in my case anyway] to see you and those who have made links etc to your site, explain how we are heading the way of Leeds because of underinvestment in the team

 

 

 

I thought they taught grammar in the 60s ??

 

I need help with your question/statement. Do you think we are looking bad cos we ran out of money ? Are you trying to say we looked really good under Shepherd cos he spent £114m more thn he took in, in just 11 years. Shepherd was in control up June 2007

 

I'm just trying to clarify

 

I didn't realise this was under examination conditions. Your own piece is a master of literacy.

 

Go on, quit sidestepping and answer his questions.  You know you want to.

 

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

macbeth quite simply doesn't understand that football success isn't gained by putting balance sheets before speculation on quality players. The reality check has been posted on numerous occasions. I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Ashley's preference for balance sheets is going to relegate us. This is why Keegan left. Are you so blind you can't see this ? Care to comment on the rather strange happening that people like him have been insisting for 10 years we were going bankrupt, and more recently "doing a Leeds", when the only thing that is now propelling us in the direction of Leeds is the prudent board, presiding over lack of expenditure on the first team squad, that is "doing a Leeds".

 

I did ask mick this question, but true to form, he avoided it.

 

I'm not interested in macbeth mate, or anything he says. Sorry like.

 

 

Fair enough.  I haven't been around long enough to know the history of all your previous discussions with macbeth etc. so would have genuinely been interested in your answer.  Cheers for taking the time to reply though.

[madras]

should be able to get the 2007 accounts from http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/nufc2007.pdf

 

just for you -  a pound cheaper than from Companies House   

 

well, after all the scaremongering you've done about us becoming another Leeds through overspending etc it will be interesting [or not in my case anyway] to see you and those who have made links etc to your site, explain how we are heading the way of Leeds because of underinvestment in the team

 

 

 

I thought they taught grammar in the 60s ??

 

I need help with your question/statement. Do you think we are looking bad cos we ran out of money ? Are you trying to say we looked really good under Shepherd cos he spent £114m more thn he took in, in just 11 years. Shepherd was in control up June 2007

 

I'm just trying to clarify

 

I didn't realise this was under examination conditions. Your own piece is a master of literacy.

 

Go on, quit sidestepping and answer his questions.  You know you want to.

 

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

macbeth quite simply doesn't understand that football success isn't gained by putting balance sheets before speculation on quality players. The reality check has been posted on numerous occasions. I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Ashley's preference for balance sheets is going to relegate us. This is why Keegan left. Are you so blind you can't see this ? Care to comment on the rather strange happening that people like him have been insisting for 10 years we were going bankrupt, and more recently "doing a Leeds", when the only thing that is now propelling us in the direction of Leeds is the prudent board, presiding over lack of expenditure on the first team squad, that is "doing a Leeds".

 

I did ask mick this question, but true to form, he avoided it.

 

I'm not interested in macbeth mate, or anything he says. Sorry like.

 

 

and NE5 doesn't understand that you just can't go on spending money you don't have indefinitly and hope to pay it back "when" you are successful.

[Baggio]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

[NE5]

should be able to get the 2007 accounts from http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/nufc2007.pdf

 

just for you -  a pound cheaper than from Companies House   

 

well, after all the scaremongering you've done about us becoming another Leeds through overspending etc it will be interesting [or not in my case anyway] to see you and those who have made links etc to your site, explain how we are heading the way of Leeds because of underinvestment in the team

 

 

 

I thought they taught grammar in the 60s ??

 

I need help with your question/statement. Do you think we are looking bad cos we ran out of money ? Are you trying to say we looked really good under Shepherd cos he spent £114m more thn he took in, in just 11 years. Shepherd was in control up June 2007

 

I'm just trying to clarify

 

I didn't realise this was under examination conditions. Your own piece is a master of literacy.

 

Go on, quit sidestepping and answer his questions.  You know you want to.

 

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

macbeth quite simply doesn't understand that football success isn't gained by putting balance sheets before speculation on quality players. The reality check has been posted on numerous occasions. I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Ashley's preference for balance sheets is going to relegate us. This is why Keegan left. Are you so blind you can't see this ? Care to comment on the rather strange happening that people like him have been insisting for 10 years we were going bankrupt, and more recently "doing a Leeds", when the only thing that is now propelling us in the direction of Leeds is the prudent board, presiding over lack of expenditure on the first team squad, that is "doing a Leeds".

 

I did ask mick this question, but true to form, he avoided it.

 

I'm not interested in macbeth mate, or anything he says. Sorry like.

 

 

and NE5 doesn't understand that you just can't go on spending money you don't have indefinitly and hope to pay it back "when" you are successful.

 

so you're happy that we have progressed from Shepherds legacy and on course to match those Champions League qualifications then ?

 

You should make that comment towards the many people who encouraged and urged the old board to splash the cash every time the team lost a game, then for some reason, agreed with Ashley that not splashing cash was the way forward. Personality driven and confused agendas ? Surely not. My reply is that I am one of the few people around who defended the club for not spening money they didn't have after signing Woodgate in 2003 and make the club over reliant on qualifying for the Champions League, which is the mistake that Leeds made. Unlike numerous people again, who move the goalposts when they feel like it.

 

Somehow, I know that these points will be beneath you to comprehend and debate in a mature fashion.

 

You should also send a memo to Alex Ferguson and tell him how he's been getting it wrong all these years, and he shouldn't have recommended to his board that they buy Wayne Rooney.

 

There are good points of view here in this thread, based on the idea of actually attempting to match how history proves it is done. Its a real shame - for you - that the events of the last 2 weeks still haven't shown you how your head is in the sand.

 

You must also - like macbeth and mick - prefer us to have gone down rather than buy the badly needed, at the time, Martins and Owen. You might not have to wait too long to see how wrong you are, witness Ashley and his mates treading the path that you insisted they follow instead, assuming they stick around that is.

 

 

 

[NE5]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

[Baggio]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

[NE5]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again  or are you pleased you got what you wished for ?

 

 

[NE5]

should be able to get the 2007 accounts from http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/nufc2007.pdf

 

just for you -  a pound cheaper than from Companies House   

 

well, after all the scaremongering you've done about us becoming another Leeds through overspending etc it will be interesting [or not in my case anyway] to see you and those who have made links etc to your site, explain how we are heading the way of Leeds because of underinvestment in the team

 

 

 

I thought they taught grammar in the 60s ??

 

I need help with your question/statement. Do you think we are looking bad cos we ran out of money ? Are you trying to say we looked really good under Shepherd cos he spent £114m more thn he took in, in just 11 years. Shepherd was in control up June 2007

 

I'm just trying to clarify

 

I didn't realise this was under examination conditions. Your own piece is a master of literacy.

 

Go on, quit sidestepping and answer his questions.  You know you want to.

 

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

macbeth quite simply doesn't understand that football success isn't gained by putting balance sheets before speculation on quality players. The reality check has been posted on numerous occasions. I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Ashley's preference for balance sheets is going to relegate us. This is why Keegan left. Are you so blind you can't see this ? Care to comment on the rather strange happening that people like him have been insisting for 10 years we were going bankrupt, and more recently "doing a Leeds", when the only thing that is now propelling us in the direction of Leeds is the prudent board, presiding over lack of expenditure on the first team squad, that is "doing a Leeds".

 

I did ask mick this question, but true to form, he avoided it.

 

I'm not interested in macbeth mate, or anything he says. Sorry like.

 

 

 

Enough to convince Man Utd's board to restructure their finances in order to secure Rooney's signature a year ahead of schedule, as they were at the time biding their time ie. waiting for next Summer/or January where they would have got a Stretford tapped-up player for a lower fee.

 

The antithesis scenario: United's board roll over and allow Rooney to drop into our lap & lose a quality player whom they can build their frontline around for the next ten years or thereabouts, rather than compromise the strength of their balance sheets at the time.

 

Enough to convince us to pay for Woodgate over the course of two instalmets. The second instalment was paid, or due to be paid a year after we completed his player registration papers. Enough to convince us to enter a similar arrangement as per Owen although it was borrowed against forthcoming sponsorship money and the repayment schedule was drawn out over a longer timeframe.

 

Looking back at Owen's impact, and the key goals he scored for us amidst two years where we've avoided the swing of the relegation axe. I've slept easily despite Ashley's belly aching of having to pay the remaining instalments - ie. incurred debt courtesy of Shepherd - as opposed to the club going to the wall minus Owen's aforementioned impact if the club hadn't bought him.

 

On a further note with regards to the mooted quick firesale of Owen in January - ie. negotiated prior to Jan - at a knockdown price to recoup something rather than allow him to move for nothing. Balance the true cost of relegation, and this would be result if the club's only proven 'predatory' goalscorer is offloaded on the eve of or in the midst of a relegation fight, against the recoupment of a couple of million pounds or so. It's lunacy which is dismissive of the bigger picture, and it's a trait of a spreadsheet-orientated owner - ie. as already highlighted by the board in their failed attempt to sell him on the final day of the Summer's window with an already threadbare strikeforce in place

 

It's been dismissed as a being a 'flame' remark, but as i've said before 'Spreadsheeters of Ashley's ilk have no place on the football landscape'......club ownership in particular.

 

"the true cost of relegation". A phrase that macbeth, mick, madras etc don't seem to understand.

 

 

[Baggio]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again 

 

So did you find your socks then?

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make im answer!

 

You make me answer so why not him?! Double dare you, Dave!

 

:lol: :lol:

[NE5]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again 

 

So did you find your socks then?

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make im answer!

 

You make me answer so why not him?! Double dare you, Dave!

 

:lol: :lol:

 

oh dear.

 

No intelligent response, from beaten Baggy. Your DOF system failed son. Like I told you it would.

 

BTW, Ramos isn't doing very well either  mackems.gif

 

 

[Baggio]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again 

 

So did you find your socks then?

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make im answer!

 

You make me answer so why not him?! Double dare you, Dave!

 

:lol: :lol:

 

oh dear.

 

No intelligent response, from beaten Baggy. Your DOF system failed son. Like I told you it would.

 

BTW, Ramos isn't doing very well either  mackems.gif

 

 

 

How did it fail when you've admitted Dennis Wise's signings blew your socks off? mackems.gif

 

Ramos won the Carling cup didn't he? I'd rather win that than fuck all, like your hero Allardyce did.

[Guest Jawesome]

Fuck me, this place has turned into a fucking school yard.  Every debate turning into a fucking high school bitch fest.  Get a grip.

[NE5]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again 

 

So did you find your socks then?

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make im answer!

 

You make me answer so why not him?! Double dare you, Dave!

 

:lol: :lol:

 

oh dear.

 

No intelligent response, from beaten Baggy. Your DOF system failed son. Like I told you it would.

 

BTW, Ramos isn't doing very well either  mackems.gif

 

 

 

How did it fail when you've admitted Dennis Wise's signings blew your socks off? mackems.gif

 

Ramos won the Carling cup didn't he? I'd rather win that than fuck all, like your hero Allardyce did.

 

oh dear. So you think Ramos is a success and Keegan is a failure, is that it ?

 

You're obviously happy you have what you wished for, correct ?

 

I don't intend to get into an argument here Baggy lad, thats the last time I asked you. If you don't respond with a yes or a no, I'm sure everybody will realise you mean that you are happy you have what you wished for.

 

Shame that its getting a bit silly, for the sake of you confirming that you were either right or wrong.

 

 

[Guest fraser]

Ok, Ive had a quick look at the accounts.

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date I think its a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this although it is implied that they agree with Chris Morts comments in the directors report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a going concern (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadnt bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know its a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

 

 

I am grateful for your reply which adds to most of the debates on this board.

[Baggio]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again 

 

So did you find your socks then?

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make im answer!

 

You make me answer so why not him?! Double dare you, Dave!

 

:lol: :lol:

 

oh dear.

 

No intelligent response, from beaten Baggy. Your DOF system failed son. Like I told you it would.

 

BTW, Ramos isn't doing very well either  mackems.gif

 

 

 

How did it fail when you've admitted Dennis Wise's signings blew your socks off? mackems.gif

 

Ramos won the Carling cup didn't he? I'd rather win that than fuck all, like your hero Allardyce did.

 

oh dear. So you think Ramos is a success and Keegan is a failure, is that it ?

 

You're obviously happy you have what you wished for, correct ?

 

I don't intend to get into an argument here Baggy lad, thats the last time I asked you. If you don't respond with a yes or a no, I'm sure everybody will realise you mean that you are happy you have what you wished for.

 

Shame that its getting a bit silly, for the sake of you confirming that you were either right or wrong.

 

 

 

Would I rather have Ramos and win the Carling cup or have Keegan and win 5 league games in 8 months?

 

I think I'll take the trophy.

 

Am I happy with the set up at the club? Reasonably happy although re appointing Keegan was an obvious mistake which will be the boards downfall.

[NE5]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again 

 

So did you find your socks then?

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make im answer!

 

You make me answer so why not him?! Double dare you, Dave!

 

:lol: :lol:

 

oh dear.

 

No intelligent response, from beaten Baggy. Your DOF system failed son. Like I told you it would.

 

BTW, Ramos isn't doing very well either  mackems.gif

 

 

 

How did it fail when you've admitted Dennis Wise's signings blew your socks off? mackems.gif

 

Ramos won the Carling cup didn't he? I'd rather win that than fuck all, like your hero Allardyce did.

 

oh dear. So you think Ramos is a success and Keegan is a failure, is that it ?

 

You're obviously happy you have what you wished for, correct ?

 

I don't intend to get into an argument here Baggy lad, thats the last time I asked you. If you don't respond with a yes or a no, I'm sure everybody will realise you mean that you are happy you have what you wished for.

 

Shame that its getting a bit silly, for the sake of you confirming that you were either right or wrong.

 

 

 

Would I rather have Ramos and win the Carling cup or have Keegan and win 5 league games in 8 months?

 

I think I'll take the trophy.

 

Am I happy with the set up at the club? Reasonably happy although re appointing Keegan was an obvious mistake which will be the boards downfall.

 

Well then, you are saying that no matter who the manager was, the same transfer dealings would have been done [bar Guthrie, who you have said you like]

 

The conclusion being, that you are happy with the squad, assembled in accordance with the structure of the club that you think is the ideal setup, making a profit in the transfer window and appearing to be deliberately putting profit before quality players, and a different manager other than Keegan ie one who approved of being someones yes man, would be making a better fist of it ?

 

And Dennis Wise would be here for years, whoever the manager was ?

 

So you are happy with what you wished for ?

 

Last time.

 

 

[Baggio]

I've answered them at least a couple of years ago.

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make him answer!

 

mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. Are you pleased you have what you wished for ?

 

 

 

A DOF set up to bring players in? Yes, we just need a manager that doesn't resemble Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride.

 

Did you find your socks after Dennis Wise's signings blew them off? mackems.gif

 

Dear little Matthew. As mature as always.

 

You're not really 27 are you  mackems.gif

 

When are you going to hoy your toys out of your pram again 

 

So did you find your socks then?

 

Make him answer, Dave! Make im answer!

 

You make me answer so why not him?! Double dare you, Dave!

 

:lol: :lol:

 

oh dear.

 

No intelligent response, from beaten Baggy. Your DOF system failed son. Like I told you it would.

 

BTW, Ramos isn't doing very well either  mackems.gif

 

 

 

How did it fail when you've admitted Dennis Wise's signings blew your socks off? mackems.gif

 

Ramos won the Carling cup didn't he? I'd rather win that than fuck all, like your hero Allardyce did.

 

oh dear. So you think Ramos is a success and Keegan is a failure, is that it ?

 

You're obviously happy you have what you wished for, correct ?

 

I don't intend to get into an argument here Baggy lad, thats the last time I asked you. If you don't respond with a yes or a no, I'm sure everybody will realise you mean that you are happy you have what you wished for.

 

Shame that its getting a bit silly, for the sake of you confirming that you were either right or wrong.

 

 

 

Would I rather have Ramos and win the Carling cup or have Keegan and win 5 league games in 8 months?

 

I think I'll take the trophy.

 

Am I happy with the set up at the club? Reasonably happy although re appointing Keegan was an obvious mistake which will be the boards downfall.

 

Well then, you are saying that no matter who the manager was, the same transfer dealings would have been done [bar Guthrie, who you have said you like]

 

The conclusion being, that you are happy with the squad, assembled in accordance with the structure of the club that you think is the ideal setup, a different manager other than Keegan ie one who approved of being someones yes man, would be making a better fist of it ?

 

And Dennis Wise would be here for years, whoever the manager was ?

 

So you are happy with what you wished for ?

 

Last time.

 

 

 

It's hard to say who would be here as Keegan clearly had a say in transfers at the beginning, which is why he was asked to draw up a list of potential targets and went scouting players the club had identified, Gomis being an example, if the club had bought him then it's unlikely they would have signed Xisco.

 

I'm not 100% happy with the squad as we still lack numbers in certain areas, without knowing whats gone on behind the scenes it's hard to know who is to blame for that, some will say it was Dennis Wise and co who are to blame for not getting numbers in as that was their job but others think there was problems behind the scenes where Keegan was using his power of saying yes or no to players that has contributed to us being short, see todays Chronicle for claims he knocked back Skjelbred on the last day of the window in Kaka's thread as an example.

 

It's hard to say if we would have been better off with a different manager because his ability and the affect he'd have on the Summer dealings are anyone's guess since it's just a random, made up manager, if it was Scolari we would have been better off but if it was Souness we wouldn't, hard to judge without knowing.

 

Am I happy? Not really, nothing to do with the set up though and more to do with Keegan walking out on yet another club at the worst possible time which has thrown us into turmoil.