Ericz Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Can't honestly see why the guy, in the circumstances, shouldn't go for the best deal he can get. You are right on that part but it just doesn't go with what he says that he wants the best for the club. Well, at the very least, he wants the best more for himself than for the club. Basically, the business intent is there. It's all about business and business and business only. It just goes to show how much the club meant to him. The club is just a medium, a tool to be honest. Actually, in a more crude form, fans are equally gullible tools from a business perspective, easily manipulated (or so he thought until recently). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Basically, the business intent is there. It's all about business and business and business only. And this is a surprise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericz Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 nah, not to me. More for those deluded people still saying how good Ashley is blah ! blah ! blah ! and that he should stay blah ! blah ! blah ! and that fans shouldn't treat him this way blah ! blah ! blah ! Gets on my nerves to be honest. It's so plain and simple to see. (well, it is even clearer now considering how much he wishes to sell the club for) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 It's called negotiation. You start at an insane price then lower it once someone's interested. Anyone who's actually interested in the club will talk to him first and not read a newspaper article and say 'fuck that'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericz Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 It's called negotiation. You start at an insane price then lower it once someone's interested. Anyone who's actually interested in the club will talk to him first and not read a newspaper article and say 'f*** that'. We will see again how much he sells it for then *lol* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 It's basically like bargaining for my Toon-striped djelleba in the souk. They name a silly price, you offer a fraction in return, then you bullshit back and forth for a while before ending up somewhere in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garth Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 480m-way way way too much. Are you saying that your football club isn't worth that much?. Man U supporter! must be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garth Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Jesus christ! he's dealing with Arabs, we all know you have to start with an insane price and barter away, if he didn't!, he would loose face in front of the Arabs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swissmag Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Jesus christ! he's dealing with Arabs, we all know you have to start with an insane price and barter away, if he didn't!, he would loose face in front of the Arabs. Where you got that knowledge from? From your last holidays in Djerba, Marrakesh or Dubai? It's not a soukh man... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 with Arabs, we all know you have to start with an insane price and barter away correct its how people do business in the middle east(and asia). They all like to think they are fab hagglers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Anyone hear this Tony Horne thing this morning on the radio ? A few people going on about it at the school, some phone call to a mate of his in a hotel bar in Dunia where Ashley and his crew were drinking at the time.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth Toon Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 http://www.arabianbusiness.com/531360-ashley-snubs-takeover-talks-for-cocktails Ashley snubs takeover talks for cocktails DUBAI DATE: Mike Ashley, centre, at the Bahri Bar in Dubai.Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley snubbed a crucial meeting with Arab investors on Tuesday night – choosing instead to spend the evening drinking Mojito cocktails at a Dubai beach bar. Ashley had been due to hold talks with Dubai officials over a possible sale of the club, at the Mina A’Salam Ramadan Tent, in the Madinat Jumeirah Hotel. The meeting was due to begin at 11pm, and followed the handing over of sale documents for the club earlier in the day, in which Ashley stated he wanted no less than $860 million to sell Newcastle FC – more than twice the sum he paid for it in 2007. Sources close to the talks say an offer had been made to buy the club on Tuesday, of around $360 million. A follow-up meeting was planned to discuss the offer. However, Ashley arrived at the Bahri Bar, just five minutes walk from the Ramadan Tent, at just before 10pm on Tuesday night and began ordering drinks. He was joined at the bar by Newcastle United managing director Derek Llambias and director of football Dennis Wise. While standing at the bar Ashley was overheard to tell Llambias that he wouldn’t go to the Ramadan Tent saying the earlier offer was an “insult”. Wise and Llambias briefly left the bar on several occasions to answer calls on their mobile phones, while Ashley himself remained. The group left shortly after 1am on Wednesday morning. Dubai officials had gathered at the nearby Al Majlis beachside tent, where Ashley had been invited to join them for talks over dinner. Ashley and his party were due to be flying back to the UK on Thursday morning. However, it is understood they may leave Dubai on Wednesday, as the chances of any takeover fade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Yes, yes, it's written by Martin Samuel - but put your prejudices aside and actually read this... Northern shock at Newcastle strikes fear into Mike Ashley http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/martin_samuel/article4769431.ece Martin Samuel Sir Bobby Robson was given his first manager's job at Fulham in January 1968, and was sacked nine months later. He found out about it by reading the back page of the Evening Standard at a Putney station. Robson recalls that later he looked around the ground from the centre circle at Craven Cottage, with tears in his eyes, and vowed this would never happen again. Nine years later, the director Robson believed was responsible, Sir Eric Miller, a property developer and Labour Party supporter, knighted in departing Prime Minister Harold Wilson's infamous Lavender List, committed suicide while under investigation for fraud, with four writs seeking restitution of funds. “So that shows how well he reacted to pressure,” Robson said, in a rare moment of iciness. There should be no surprise, then, that the battle to oust Mike Ashley from Newcastle United should be over almost before it begun, because the difference between those who play the game and those who own it is that nothing in life will prepare a person for having a crowd of 50,000 or more on the march against him, unless he has walked out at Old Trafford in a Chelsea shirt, or missed an open goal in front of a full house at Wembley. In similar circumstances, Dennis Wise, Newcastle's executive director (football) and the other bogeyman in this tale, would probably not have sold. Wise did not seek confrontation by turning up at St James' Park on Saturday, but he would not have issued a statement the next day, as Ashley did, as good as admitting that the protesters had won and he would sell Newcastle to the first serious bidder. It is Ashley who has blinked in the face of the taunts. As a friend of the owner, Wise could have resolved Ashley's difficulty by offering his resignation when it became clear his relationship with Kevin Keegan, the manager, was unworkable. He did not. That is not his style. He will have known how poorly his appointment would be received from the start; as it was at Leeds United, another stronghold of northern parochialism. He did not care then, he does not care now. Ashley does, because he has never experienced anything like this and is shaken to the core. Ashley, it was said, was used to confrontation and bad publicity: but not on this scale. He sold the City a pup with the flotation of his company, Sports Direct, one of the most overpriced share issues since the dot-com bubble burst, and remains a hugely divisive presence, frequently dismissing the predictions of experts and calling Philip Dorgan, a critical analyst at Panmure Gordon, a corporate and institutional stockbroker and investment bank, a “moron”. The thing with Panmure Gordon, though, is that when it takes umbrage, Tony Caplin, the chairman, does not lead an angry mob of brokers, bankers and asset managers through the streets, brandishing placards. Ashley has never felt the need to go into hiding because the City is angry with him. “Mike, I'd keep a low profile this afternoon, mate, I've been on the Panmure Gordon message boards and there are some wealth management advisers that are pretty hacked off, I'm telling you.” So these guys come into football club ownership, having been huge successes in the business world, thinking their financial smarts will be just as effective when applied to a Premier League club. Ashley clearly thought there would be 50,000 people chanting his name and, at first, he was right. What owners are never prepared for is the flip side of that coin, which is, when things go wrong, 50,000 people telling you to sling your hook. David Pleat summed it up best. “If they chant 'Sack the manager', they think about sacking the manager,” he said. “If they chant 'Sack the board', they definitely sack the manager.” The best example of this boardroom bravery is Kevin McCabe, chairman of Sheffield United plc, who sacked Bryan Robson in February after a furious demonstration by supporters. “I am disappointed that in some respects the fans could not be more patient because I know more than anyone the tremendous effort Bryan Robson was putting in behind the scenes on our youth development as well as with the first team,” McCabe said. “Sometimes, if they only sit and think, the people they abuse are the people that are doing their best.” And yet, despite this, McCabe fired Robson. He knew - more than anyone, he said - that he was doing a good job, but the supporters had spoken and McCabe's unease was all-conquering. What a stroke of luck that no vocal protesters follow the property development game, then, or the Scarborough Group of which McCabe is also chairman might be run in an equally lily-livered fashion. Whether Robson was doing a good job or not - and he seemed to have foul luck with injuries, not least to James Beattie, the star striker - is almost irrelevant. McCabe believed he was making progress, so why sack him? It hardly bodes well for Kevin Blackwell, Robson's successor. Presumably, if supporters shout loudly enough he will get his P45, too; and then the next manager and the manager after that. There are exceptions. The Glazer family suffered unprecedented vitriol and rejection when they bought Manchester United, but rode it by putting 41.1 million square miles of water between themselves and the problem, and absolutely refusing to engage in debate. No self-serving PR stunts, either, just quiet support for the manager and the odd, low-key appearance at Old Trafford. The fortunes of the team turned around, too, and this is something many of the new generation of owners do not appear to understand. If the team do well, you will be liked; if they do not, you probably won't, and there is very little you can do to change that. It is not just on Tyneside that football is black and white. Even if the Premier League clubs were owned by the 20 richest men in the world and all could spend money like an Arab sheikh or Russian oligarch, come the end of the season, one would win the league, 16 would not, and three would be relegated, just as it is now. And those that were going down would still have the fans on their case, no matter what the investment or personal sacrifice, because by football's peculiar business rules, they would be judged to have failed. Football is unique because two separate entities have to be satisfied and they are often pulling in opposite directions. If the club are making a fortune, but fighting relegation each season, the investors will be delighted, but the season ticket-holders will be up in arms; if the club are on the brink of the title, but behind the scenes the bank is about to foreclose, the supporters will be ignorantly delirious, but the directors mystifyingly forlorn. Football is the one business in which profit is frowned upon, because all money is required to be reinvested to chase an impossible dream. A chairman attempting to apply the standard rules of finance to a football club will be castigated, although, bizarrely, few do. Ashley would never have expanded his Sports Direct empire without exerting due diligence on a takeover, yet he bought Newcastle without properly studying it, only to be shocked by the masses of debt. He would never have installed executives that were incompatible, but this is what he did by employing an old-fashioned manager and then grafting on a continental technical structure, with third parties in charge of development and scouting, rendering Keegan redundant in the transfer market. Ashley appeared bemused by this controversy in his statement, which indicates that he still does not understand how football works. It is possible for an employee other than the manager to talent spot - essential, one might think, with Keegan admitting he had not followed football closely in three years - but because the technical developer is a middleman between board and dugout, the appointment must be made by the owner, and the manager, as equal partners to ensure trust in the relationship. Would a leisurewear company appoint a head of development and a head of sales with completely differing ideas about the market? Maybe, but these would also tend to be the businesses that get bought out by men such as Ashley while in acute financial distress. Some might argue that Ashley's mistake was aiming too high. If he had Arsenal as his blueprint - and many chairmen do these days, the only problem being finding a genius such as Arsène Wenger unemployed or looking to drop two divisions to make it effective - he could have invested in a club such as Brentford or Queens Park Rangers (before the Formula One takeover) and built them from there. He could have appointed a coach, made his friends the technical directors and worked towards the Premier League, rather than in it, by scouting the world for young players, spotted early and bought cheap. The complication is that lower-league supporters have passions, prejudices and ambitions, too, and lower-league chairmen are under no less pressure. “If things continue in the same vein, then the small minority of supporters who continue to spout their vitriolic remarks will force the closure of this club,” an angry chairman wrote on his club website last Friday. “I have no problem with constructive criticism, but things have been taken too far. I have personally not taken a penny out and to have certain sections of supporters accusing me and my family of taking money from the club disgusts me. I am getting to the end of my tether.” Mick Woodward remains the owner and chairman of Grays Athletic, but left his post as manager the next day. Looks like Pleat was right: the frightened money men always take it out on the guy in the tracksuit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garth Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Jesus christ! he's dealing with Arabs, we all know you have to start with an insane price and barter away, if he didn't!, he would loose face in front of the Arabs. Where you got that knowledge from? From your last holidays in Djerba, Marrakesh or Dubai? It's not a soukh man... Well it doesn't have to be soukh man! it's the mentality of Arabs and Asians, start with a very high price eventually you come to an agreement which is fair for both partys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wally_McFool Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Ashley will be lucky to get 50 million quid if we are stuck adrift at the bottom of the league. He was warned about having a threadbare squad by KK, Shay Given and others but Ashley and his team of deaf mutes chose to ignore that. With the ever mounting injuries, its in his best interests to sell up and fuck off quick sharpish whilst the club still has any value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 http://www.arabianbusiness.com/531360-ashley-snubs-takeover-talks-for-cocktails Ashley snubs takeover talks for cocktails DUBAI DATE: Mike Ashley, centre, at the Bahri Bar in Dubai.Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley snubbed a crucial meeting with Arab investors on Tuesday night – choosing instead to spend the evening drinking Mojito cocktails at a Dubai beach bar. Ashley had been due to hold talks with Dubai officials over a possible sale of the club, at the Mina A’Salam Ramadan Tent, in the Madinat Jumeirah Hotel. The meeting was due to begin at 11pm, and followed the handing over of sale documents for the club earlier in the day, in which Ashley stated he wanted no less than $860 million to sell Newcastle FC – more than twice the sum he paid for it in 2007. Sources close to the talks say an offer had been made to buy the club on Tuesday, of around $360 million. A follow-up meeting was planned to discuss the offer. However, Ashley arrived at the Bahri Bar, just five minutes walk from the Ramadan Tent, at just before 10pm on Tuesday night and began ordering drinks. He was joined at the bar by Newcastle United managing director Derek Llambias and director of football Dennis Wise. While standing at the bar Ashley was overheard to tell Llambias that he wouldn’t go to the Ramadan Tent saying the earlier offer was an “insult”. Wise and Llambias briefly left the bar on several occasions to answer calls on their mobile phones, while Ashley himself remained. The group left shortly after 1am on Wednesday morning. Dubai officials had gathered at the nearby Al Majlis beachside tent, where Ashley had been invited to join them for talks over dinner. Ashley and his party were due to be flying back to the UK on Thursday morning. However, it is understood they may leave Dubai on Wednesday, as the chances of any takeover fade. What a heap of shite that story is. Mind if they are all there (Ashley, Wise, Llambias, Jimenez), they certainly are a tight clique arent they. Guess the development of the club is put on hold then... who holds the fort while they are all away ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie jamie Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 in order to do that you have to turn up to meeting and not just get pissed in a bar Jesus christ! he's dealing with Arabs, we all know you have to start with an insane price and barter away, if he didn't!, he would loose face in front of the Arabs. Where you got that knowledge from? From your last holidays in Djerba, Marrakesh or Dubai? It's not a soukh man... Well it doesn't have to be soukh man! it's the mentality of Arabs and Asians, start with a very high price eventually you come to an agreement which is fair for both partys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sheds Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Toon's Taylor should be banned for starting a thread that quotes the value of our club in a foreign currency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 That Martin Samuel article is spot on to be honest, completely agree with most of it. Especially that it is stupid to hope we get bought out by a mega-rich owner prepared to buy Robinho, because there are only so many Champions League places anyway, and we'll quickly get to the point where 5th is a failure and we're sacking good managers for finishing there again. Then the whole circus starts again. I'm very disappointed that Ashley couldn't have shown some bollocks and just rode out these protests. They would have died down soon enough, he could have appointed a manager that fitted the system and we would have continued to progress. Sadly he needed more than anything to be popular with the fans, and to have a beer with them at away games. That means he was never going to be able to make tough decisions against public opinion - and therefore his (correct) policy of gradual rebuilding could never work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Toon's Taylor should be banned for starting a thread that quotes the value of our club in a foreign currency. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=20035.msg370706#msg370706 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sheds Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I was only joking about Toons Taylor. But there is a more serious issue that our 'local' club is becoming increasingly distant from the fans who have supported it for years. That and the fact I am consumed by anti-americanism Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 That Martin Samuel article is spot on to be honest, completely agree with most of it. Especially that it is stupid to hope we get bought out by a mega-rich owner prepared to buy Robinho, because there are only so many Champions League places anyway, and we'll quickly get to the point where 5th is a failure and we're sacking good managers for finishing there again. Then the whole circus starts again. I'm very disappointed that Ashley couldn't have shown some bollocks and just rode out these protests. They would have died down soon enough, he could have appointed a manager that fitted the system and we would have continued to progress. Sadly he needed more than anything to be popular with the fans, and to have a beer with them at away games. That means he was never going to be able to make tough decisions against public opinion - and therefore his (correct) policy of gradual rebuilding could never work. Good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 That Martin Samuel article is spot on to be honest, completely agree with most of it. Especially that it is stupid to hope we get bought out by a mega-rich owner prepared to buy Robinho, because there are only so many Champions League places anyway, and we'll quickly get to the point where 5th is a failure and we're sacking good managers for finishing there again. Then the whole circus starts again. I'm very disappointed that Ashley couldn't have shown some bollocks and just rode out these protests. They would have died down soon enough, he could have appointed a manager that fitted the system and we would have continued to progress. Sadly he needed more than anything to be popular with the fans, and to have a beer with them at away games. That means he was never going to be able to make tough decisions against public opinion - and therefore his (correct) policy of gradual rebuilding could never work. Of course there are only a certain number of Champions League places, there are only a certain number for Liverpool and Chelsea, only those same places for Man City to go for as well, but you don't see any of them saying "why bother?, we might not make it". I'd rather be in a position of finishing 5th and actually having the chance of finishing top four or better then languish in no mans land with no chance of going anywhere, wouldn't you? It don't get how wanting to compete and at least have the chance of Champions League or even winning things is stupid just because it might not happen, nothing is ever guaranteed, the only thing that's really stupid is not trying for fear or losing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 That Martin Samuel article is spot on to be honest, completely agree with most of it. Especially that it is stupid to hope we get bought out by a mega-rich owner prepared to buy Robinho, because there are only so many Champions League places anyway, and we'll quickly get to the point where 5th is a failure and we're sacking good managers for finishing there again. Then the whole circus starts again. I'm very disappointed that Ashley couldn't have shown some bollocks and just rode out these protests. They would have died down soon enough, he could have appointed a manager that fitted the system and we would have continued to progress. Sadly he needed more than anything to be popular with the fans, and to have a beer with them at away games. That means he was never going to be able to make tough decisions against public opinion - and therefore his (correct) policy of gradual rebuilding could never work. How is it stupid to actually want to try to compete though? Yes there are only a certain number of Champions League places, there are only a certain number for Liverpool and Chelsea as well, only those same places for Man City to go for as well, but you don't see any of them saying "why bother?, we might not make it". I'd rather be in a position of finishing 5th and actually having the chance of finishing top four or better then languish in no mans land with no chance of going anywhere, wouldn't you? 'Course, just not at any cost that's all. You've got to assess whether it's possible and/or realistic, and what sort of timescales we might be talking about. We were in the position to compete a few years ago weren't we, but it all went tits up rather quickly. That's why I think stability and consistency is what we need, before we look for dramatic progress. Like the article says, if eventually all premiership clubs will have mega-rich owners, then 1 wins the title, 3 qualify for the champions league, and the rest have 'failed'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 That Martin Samuel article is spot on to be honest, completely agree with most of it. Especially that it is stupid to hope we get bought out by a mega-rich owner prepared to buy Robinho, because there are only so many Champions League places anyway, and we'll quickly get to the point where 5th is a failure and we're sacking good managers for finishing there again. Then the whole circus starts again. I'm very disappointed that Ashley couldn't have shown some bollocks and just rode out these protests. They would have died down soon enough, he could have appointed a manager that fitted the system and we would have continued to progress. Sadly he needed more than anything to be popular with the fans, and to have a beer with them at away games. That means he was never going to be able to make tough decisions against public opinion - and therefore his (correct) policy of gradual rebuilding could never work. Good point. Its a shame he didnt stay to find out that he wouldnt have been expected to make decisions based on what the majority wanted. All he had to do was explain his decisions and his actions. Keegan got a lot of respect for coming out of the steps of SJP and explaining personally to fans about why he sold Andy, sorry Andrew Cole. If Ashley had done likewise - or even anyone else of the senior management, they would have been given the utmost repsect. I think this could have been so so avoidable - if they had wanted it to be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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