Newcastle United Supporters Club

[NE5]

See?

 

you're pathetic.

 

 

[Dave]

Keep it to relevant threads or PMs, rather than ruining another otherwise good thread.

 

Simple.

[NE5]

Keep it to relevant threads or PMs, rather than ruining another otherwise good thread.

 

Simple.

 

I did. I took PP's side [no different to you taking your mates' all the time] and told your mate he was patronising in the extreme.

 

Ironic that you are now moaning on in the other thread about Kinnear being controlled from above.

 

Pathetic.

 

Let threads take their course, and let people answer their own agendas. If you insisted your mate answered things told him [which are indisputable rather than helping the poor dear out of his embarrassment] then most of these threads wouldn't go the the way they do anyway.

 

Suppose you'll delete this too.

 

 

[Dave]

I think NUSC has learned as you've gone on, you've got to keep doing that.  I understand where your starting position comes from and why it was formed, I really do hope you evolve because like I said earlier, we need a supporters club but it's got to be inclusive.  I don't think you have managed that yet but you're much closer than when it was first started.

 

Explain to me where that has ANYFUCKINGTHING to do with Mike Ashley, his ownership of the club, 1992 or anything else like that. Precisely. Nothing.

 

I delete posts from you (and others) when they have fuck all to do with the thread and topic in question. If you think Mick is being patronising, say so. But it's got fuck all to do with your usual arguments with him about Ashley and that. They just ruin the thread and lead to complaints from other members of this forum that we're allowing YOU to derail discussions yet again. I said here I'd be deleting off-topic shite: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=56350.msg1551749#msg1551749

 

Others don't seem to have a problem with this attitude from the mods, so I don't know why you do.

 

Actually that's a lie. But let's move on.

 

PS - that means don't fucking reply.

[OzzieMandias]

The defining characteristic of NUSC is that it was formed not only at a very emotional time but also out of a perceived need to force a change in the ownership of the club. It then came out with all guns blazing. These circumstances have led to several problems, and here are several thoughts about them.

 

1) There may have been a vocal majority that favoured the boycott and so forth, but there's also a sizeable minority that has problems with this action; they're just less vocal. In fact, on this forum the latter group seems to be the majority. If the NUSC is ever going to become representative of the views of Newcastle supporters in general, then it will have to find some way of reconciling the views of those two different groups. If a lot of people on here are negative about the NUSC, then it's because they don't see that reconciliation as likely or possible the way things are currently being organized.

 

2) Patronising, self-righteous guff about it being better to "do something" than "not do something" does not help to bridge the gap, as obviously a person would only agree if they thought the "something" was a helpful action in the circumstances. If it isn't, then clearly it is better not to do it. This kind of tripe, which we hear over and over again, just further inflames the disagreement.

 

3) The NUSC needs to deal with the fact that it has been wrong-footed by Ashley. It came out with all guns blazing -- silly banners, pie boycotts and all -- and Ashley said, "OK, you win." The NUSC doesn't seem able to regain its balance and deal with the new reality. "Ashley Out" is simply too inflexible a position. There's a real likelihood that Ashley simply can't sell the club at the moment. This means that for the good of the club supporters should be coming up with ways of working with him, even if it's only by shutting up and letting him get on with it. Organising boycotts and protests to maintain the current position, where supporters and owners are totally alienated from each other, will only make things worse. OK, that's just an argument about strategy and tactics, but the founding statements of the NUSC are getting in the way.

 

4) No account seems to be taken of the effect supporters' actions may have on the intentions of potential buyers. The fact that it got personal -- "Cockneys", an owner who'd put himself among the fans being told in tones which could be read as threatening that he was no longer welcome -- must already have put off anyone who thought they could buy goodwill and respect with investment and involvement. Waving around the "look how much damage we can cause" card is even worse -- it amounts to the club's main asset devaluing itself. You had better believe that any potential owner is looking at the mood of the fans, and no one will want to step into an ongoing conflict. The irony here is that trying to force or hurry a sale may well be making that sale more difficult. Oh but never mind, at least they're "doing something".

[NE5]

The defining characteristic of NUSC is that it was formed not only at a very emotional time but also out of a perceived need to force a change in the ownership of the club.

 

so you are happy with the ownership and direction of the club ?

 

 

[Guest]

The defining characteristic of NUSC is that it was formed not only at a very emotional time but also out of a perceived need to force a change in the ownership of the club.

 

so you are happy with the ownership and direction of the club ?

 

 

In which case, set up a pressure group to get him out, but don't call it "Supporters Club".

[Syrette]

Might as well post this.

 

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/news/columnists/2008/11/02/group-could-put-off-buyers-79310-22164256/

 

Group could put off buyers

 

Nov 2 2008 by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun

 

IT’S high time Newcastle’s football fans were united. High time the Geordie chorus sang with one authoritative voice.

 

So I fervently hope the Newcastle United Supporters’ Club — formed recently in such adversity — enjoys a long and happy future.

 

But I fear the NUSC risks alienating potential members by maintaining such emphasis on a boycott of all Mike Ashley’s businesses.

 

And won’t the NUSC’s strength ultimately lie in its numbers?

 

I see the logic in providing would-be buyers of the Magpies with proof that fans on Tyneside are no longer to be taken for granted.

 

But in practice, I don’t believe the sight of supporters employing guerilla tactics against one owner is likely to help attract another.

 

What’s more, if such a boycott was widely supported, wouldn’t Ashley himself merely look to recoup his losses by jacking up his asking price for Newcastle, thus possibly delaying his departure?

[Skeletor]

Might as well post this.

 

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/news/columnists/2008/11/02/group-could-put-off-buyers-79310-22164256/

 

Group could put off buyers

 

Nov 2 2008 by Neil Farrington, Sunday Sun

 

IT’S high time Newcastle’s football fans were united. High time the Geordie chorus sang with one authoritative voice.

 

So I fervently hope the Newcastle United Supporters’ Club — formed recently in such adversity — enjoys a long and happy future.

 

But I fear the NUSC risks alienating potential members by maintaining such emphasis on a boycott of all Mike Ashley’s businesses.

 

And won’t the NUSC’s strength ultimately lie in its numbers?

 

I see the logic in providing would-be buyers of the Magpies with proof that fans on Tyneside are no longer to be taken for granted.

 

But in practice, I don’t believe the sight of supporters employing guerilla tactics against one owner is likely to help attract another.

 

What’s more, if such a boycott was widely supported, wouldn’t Ashley himself merely look to recoup his losses by jacking up his asking price for Newcastle, thus possibly delaying his departure?

 

Neil Farrington just probably reads this thread.

[Thespence]

Of course it will put buyers off if they are weak like Ashley but if they are people who know what they want & know what they want to do like the yanks at Man Utd they will take NUSC in there stride.

 

NUSC may form its own team, Newcastle City

[Guest]

Of course it will put buyers off if they are weak like Ashley but if they are people who know what they want & know what they want to do like the yanks at Man Utd they will take NUSC in there stride.

 

NUSC may form its own team, Newcastle City

 

Well the last two clubs who had pressure-type groups do the same things, have seen the original clubs go from strength-to-strength without them, (MK Dons & Man Utd), so good luck there!

[Baggio]

Of course it will put buyers off if they are weak like Ashley but if they are people who know what they want & know what they want to do like the yanks at Man Utd they will take NUSC in there stride.

 

NUSC may form its own team, Newcastle City

 

The difference with the yanks at Liverpool and Man Utd is that they won't end up paying for the club out of their own pocket so it isn't a big deal that their fans don't like them, I could live with them not liking me if it meant I had a football club at the end of it without a penny coming out of my own pocket.

 

Perhaps this is the sort of owner we get here, I wonder what opinions will be then.

[peasepud]

A quick question..

 

If at the next meeting 100 people turned up and 60 voted that they wanted Ashley to stay and moves should be made to ensure this happens, would the direction of NUSC change to go with the majority?

Simple answer - Yes

 

To be honest if about 30 or 40 people out of the hundred voted for that then I would be looking to hold off on any further action even though the majority had voted the affirmative. That kind of numbers tell you that its not clear cut. I would want to wait a couple of weeks and redo the vote to see if things were different.

 

NUSC may form its own team, Newcastle City

Guaranteed 100% to never even be contemplated. At the end of the day we are Newcastle United fans, will always be Newcastle United fans and could not contemplate anything else no matter what happens in the future.

[Thespence]

Of course it will put buyers off if they are weak like Ashley but if they are people who know what they want & know what they want to do like the yanks at Man Utd they will take NUSC in there stride.

 

NUSC may form its own team, Newcastle City

 

The difference with the yanks at Liverpool and Man Utd is that they won't end up paying for the club out of their own pocket so it isn't a big deal that their fans don't like them, I could live with them not liking me if it meant I had a football club at the end of it without a penny coming out of my own pocket.

 

Perhaps this is the sort of owner we get here, I wonder what opinions will be then.

 

But as it there (or 50% each for the scouse yanks) club it is there business that is paying which is reducing there own profits. So it is coming out of there pockets. Ashley is not Jack Walker ffs he will at least get all the money he has pumped in & maybe a bit extra back.

[Baggio]

Of course it will put buyers off if they are weak like Ashley but if they are people who know what they want & know what they want to do like the yanks at Man Utd they will take NUSC in there stride.

 

NUSC may form its own team, Newcastle City

 

The difference with the yanks at Liverpool and Man Utd is that they won't end up paying for the club out of their own pocket so it isn't a big deal that their fans don't like them, I could live with them not liking me if it meant I had a football club at the end of it without a penny coming out of my own pocket.

 

Perhaps this is the sort of owner we get here, I wonder what opinions will be then.

 

But as it there (or 50% each for the scouse yanks) club it is there business that is paying which is reducing there own profits. So it is coming out of there pockets. Ashley is not Jack Walker ffs he will at least get all the money he has pumped in & maybe a bit extra back.

 

The money being made at Man Utd is being spent to buy the club for the Glaziers, you can try and dress it up whatever way you want but this is a fact.

 

If Ashley sold the club to someone who transferred all of the debt onto the club so that we could buy it for them using a percentage of profits being made would you be happy?

 

I've never suggested Ashley was Jack Walker and if he sold the club then he'd get his money back, however the likes of the Glaziers, Hicks and Gillette haven't put any money in in the first place, that is the point.

[peasepud]

3) The NUSC needs to deal with the fact that it has been wrong-footed by Ashley. It came out with all guns blazing -- silly banners, pie boycotts and all -- and Ashley said, "OK, you win." The NUSC doesn't seem able to regain its balance and deal with the new reality. "Ashley Out" is simply too inflexible a position. There's a real likelihood that Ashley simply can't sell the club at the moment. This means that for the good of the club supporters should be coming up with ways of working with him, even if it's only by shutting up and letting him get on with it. Organising boycotts and protests to maintain the current position, where supporters and owners are totally alienated from each other, will only make things worse. OK, that's just an argument about strategy and tactics, but the founding statements of the NUSC are getting in the way.

 

Then you need to get your facts straight mate, two simple dates blow the first part of that out of the water. September 14th Ashley announces he is selling the club, September 16th meeting takes place which results in the foundation of the NUSC. So we were not responsible in any way for the decision to sell. Maybe in seriousness, if we already had a supporters club established then it may never have got to that stage. The second part of that is you harking back to two weeks ago and not keeping up with the current position (or maybe choosing to ignore it to back your argument).

 

Half the stuff in your post I agree with but the problem is Ive already acknowledged those facts and we're already doing stuff to reverse them. If people would just acknowledge that themselves and give it time then I would be more than happy. I dont expect everyone to suddenly say "well thats ok then, where do I sign?" but I would have thought people would be able to admit that it could work.

[Baggio]

3) The NUSC needs to deal with the fact that it has been wrong-footed by Ashley. It came out with all guns blazing -- silly banners, pie boycotts and all -- and Ashley said, "OK, you win." The NUSC doesn't seem able to regain its balance and deal with the new reality. "Ashley Out" is simply too inflexible a position. There's a real likelihood that Ashley simply can't sell the club at the moment. This means that for the good of the club supporters should be coming up with ways of working with him, even if it's only by shutting up and letting him get on with it. Organising boycotts and protests to maintain the current position, where supporters and owners are totally alienated from each other, will only make things worse. OK, that's just an argument about strategy and tactics, but the founding statements of the NUSC are getting in the way.

 

Then you need to get your facts straight mate, two simple dates blow the first part of that out of the water. September 14th Ashley announces he is selling the club, September 16th meeting takes place which results in the foundation of the NUSC. So we were not responsible in any way for the decision to sell. Maybe in seriousness, if we already had a supporters club established then it may never have got to that stage. The second part of that is you harking back to two weeks ago and not keeping up with the current position (or maybe choosing to ignore it to back your argument).

 

Half the stuff in your post I agree with but the problem is Ive already acknowledged those facts and we're already doing stuff to reverse them. If people would just acknowledge that themselves and give it time then I would be more than happy. I dont expect everyone to suddenly say "well thats ok then, where do I sign?" but I would have thought people would be able to admit that it could work.

 

It was the fanzines that were making statements for a boycott and behind the setting up of NUSC, was it not?

 

It's not hard to see why people lump them in together.

[NE5]

The defining characteristic of NUSC is that it was formed not only at a very emotional time but also out of a perceived need to force a change in the ownership of the club.

 

so you are happy with the ownership and direction of the club ?

 

 

 

bump.

 

Are you still happy with the direction and ownership of the club ?

 

Especially as PP has cleared up a couple of issues with you.

 

 

[peasepud]

It was the fanzines that were making statements for a boycott and behind the setting up of NUSC, was it not?

 

It's not hard to see why people lump them in together.

 

I can see your logic there and its fair enough however the fanzines were responsible for getting the original meeting organised but nothing more, the people at that meeting decided what would then happen.

 

However I find it highly unlikely that it was a claim for a pie boycott that sent MA over the edge, more likely the sustained protests outside Shearers and the entrance plus possibly the march from Tilleys (something which this forum promoted, on your logic therefore does N-O shoulder some of the blame?).

[OzzieMandias]

3) The NUSC needs to deal with the fact that it has been wrong-footed by Ashley. It came out with all guns blazing -- silly banners, pie boycotts and all -- and Ashley said, "OK, you win." The NUSC doesn't seem able to regain its balance and deal with the new reality. "Ashley Out" is simply too inflexible a position. There's a real likelihood that Ashley simply can't sell the club at the moment. This means that for the good of the club supporters should be coming up with ways of working with him, even if it's only by shutting up and letting him get on with it. Organising boycotts and protests to maintain the current position, where supporters and owners are totally alienated from each other, will only make things worse. OK, that's just an argument about strategy and tactics, but the founding statements of the NUSC are getting in the way.

 

Then you need to get your facts straight mate, two simple dates blow the first part of that out of the water. September 14th Ashley announces he is selling the club, September 16th meeting takes place which results in the foundation of the NUSC. So we were not responsible in any way for the decision to sell. Maybe in seriousness, if we already had a supporters club established then it may never have got to that stage. The second part of that is you harking back to two weeks ago and not keeping up with the current position (or maybe choosing to ignore it to back your argument).

 

Half the stuff in your post I agree with but the problem is Ive already acknowledged those facts and we're already doing stuff to reverse them. If people would just acknowledge that themselves and give it time then I would be more than happy. I dont expect everyone to suddenly say "well thats ok then, where do I sign?" but I would have thought people would be able to admit that it could work.

 

Adjustments to timeline noted. I stand by my principal worry -- that the founding position is too inflexible to deal with a situation where Ashley can't sell. I started asking "what if?" a couple of weeks ago, but no one has seemed interested in discussing it.

[Thespence]

Of course it will put buyers off if they are weak like Ashley but if they are people who know what they want & know what they want to do like the yanks at Man Utd they will take NUSC in there stride.

 

NUSC may form its own team, Newcastle City

 

The difference with the yanks at Liverpool and Man Utd is that they won't end up paying for the club out of their own pocket so it isn't a big deal that their fans don't like them, I could live with them not liking me if it meant I had a football club at the end of it without a penny coming out of my own pocket.

 

Perhaps this is the sort of owner we get here, I wonder what opinions will be then.

 

But as it there (or 50% each for the scouse yanks) club it is there business that is paying which is reducing there own profits. So it is coming out of there pockets. Ashley is not Jack Walker ffs he will at least get all the money he has pumped in & maybe a bit extra back.

 

The money being made at Man Utd is being spent to buy the club for the Glaziers, you can try and dress it up whatever way you want but this is a fact.

 

If Ashley sold the club to someone who transferred all of the debt onto the club so that we could buy it for them using a percentage of profits being made would you be happy?

 

I've never suggested Ashley was Jack Walker and if he sold the club then he'd get his money back, however the likes of the Glaziers, Hicks and Gillette haven't put any money in in the first place, that is the point.

 

Dressing it up It is the Glazers club paying off the Glazers debt that is fact.

 

I would not be bothered if the team was winning tbh.

 

They have not put any money in..........it is there club man it is all there money.

[peasepud]

Adjustments to timeline noted. I stand by my principal worry -- that the founding position is too inflexible to deal with a situation where Ashley can't sell. I started asking "what if?" a couple of weeks ago, but no one has seemed interested in discussing it.

 

Im more than happy to discuss it because I see it as a real possibility. Our current view (after listening to the members at the meeting) is that we're offering a chance for him to meet us and discuss. Not for us to tell him what to do, that would be egotistical but for us to state what we see as problems, him to give his view of things and both sides to see how they can help the other. That may result in us agreeing to stop boycotts and other action in return for him agreeing to invest enough in the team come January to ensure we stay up.

 

I honestly dont know how that meeting would pan out, the sceptic in me says it wont happen because he will refuse to meet with anyone on this. If it does then I will be pleasantly surprised.

 

As you've already agreed above though the NUSC is not responsible for the current Ashley stance, you may be able to argue that he may have changed his current stance before now if we hadnt been there that would be fair enough (but hypothetical as we will never know) but if we do meet and an agreement is reached that changes his position then the credit would have to go to NUSC.

[Parky]

Adjustments to timeline noted. I stand by my principal worry -- that the founding position is too inflexible to deal with a situation where Ashley can't sell. I started asking "what if?" a couple of weeks ago, but no one has seemed interested in discussing it.

 

Im more than happy to discuss it because I see it as a real possibility. Our current view (after listening to the members at the meeting) is that we're offering a chance for him to meet us and discuss. Not for us to tell him what to do, that would be egotistical but for us to state what we see as problems, him to give his view of things and both sides to see how they can help the other. That may result in us agreeing to stop boycotts and other action in return for him agreeing to invest enough in the team come January to ensure we stay up.

 

I honestly dont know how that meeting would pan out, the sceptic in me says it wont happen because he will refuse to meet with anyone on this. If it does then I will be pleasantly surprised.

 

As you've already agreed above though the NUSC is not responsible for the current Ashley stance, you may be able to argue that he may have changed his current stance before now if we hadnt been there that would be fair enough (nut hypothetical as we will never know) but if we do meet and an agreement is reached that changes his position then the credit would have to go to NUSC.

 

If he does show up remember plan B I'll have the car revving outside. 

[NE5]

3) The NUSC needs to deal with the fact that it has been wrong-footed by Ashley. It came out with all guns blazing -- silly banners, pie boycotts and all -- and Ashley said, "OK, you win." The NUSC doesn't seem able to regain its balance and deal with the new reality. "Ashley Out" is simply too inflexible a position. There's a real likelihood that Ashley simply can't sell the club at the moment. This means that for the good of the club supporters should be coming up with ways of working with him, even if it's only by shutting up and letting him get on with it. Organising boycotts and protests to maintain the current position, where supporters and owners are totally alienated from each other, will only make things worse. OK, that's just an argument about strategy and tactics, but the founding statements of the NUSC are getting in the way.

 

Then you need to get your facts straight mate, two simple dates blow the first part of that out of the water. September 14th Ashley announces he is selling the club, September 16th meeting takes place which results in the foundation of the NUSC. So we were not responsible in any way for the decision to sell. Maybe in seriousness, if we already had a supporters club established then it may never have got to that stage. The second part of that is you harking back to two weeks ago and not keeping up with the current position (or maybe choosing to ignore it to back your argument).

 

Half the stuff in your post I agree with but the problem is Ive already acknowledged those facts and we're already doing stuff to reverse them. If people would just acknowledge that themselves and give it time then I would be more than happy. I dont expect everyone to suddenly say "well thats ok then, where do I sign?" but I would have thought people would be able to admit that it could work.

 

Adjustments to timeline noted. I stand by my principal worry -- that the founding position is too inflexible to deal with a situation where Ashley can't sell. I started asking "what if?" a couple of weeks ago, but no one has seemed interested in discussing it.

 

3rd request, are you still happy with the ownership of the club ?

 

Suggest, if the answer is no, you join the NUSC.

 

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Heron]

I find it extremely amazing how NUFC.COM have managed to publish the cringeworthy bollocks of the NUSC almost immediately - all of the time. Then there is a group like Toon Ultras who have been around for a while but struggled to grow, and who have never claimed to give all Newcastle Supporters a collective voice, etc much of a chance.

 

I'm not completely against the NUSC, I'm just fucked off at the thought that this is more about getting Ashley out than anything else. Once he is out I doubt they will know what to do or what their next plan of action will be.

 

Just goes to show, more people are only bothered when the shit hits the fan, instead of being bothered about the club in the good times as well.

 

I certaintly don't see people rushing out to make banners, and chanting their heads off outside the ground now, hmmm.....