Fans to blame? F*ck off!

[themanupstairs]

Ashley still appears to be intent on selling the club and one former Premier League manager who has spoken to The Journal believes the Newcastle manager’s job is widely regarded as a poisoned chalice.

 

He said: “Nobody wants to go there, I haven’t spoken to or heard about a single manager who is interested in the job. Who on earth would want a job like that one?

 

“The owner wants to sell, the supporters are protesting the whole time. The squad is small and the transfer window doesn’t open again for another three months.

 

“It’s a tough job at any time, let alone now. Newcastle is a special club, but it isn’t a club that is attractive to manage any more. The fans don’t give anyone time to achieve anything there and the people who run it have obviously made some mistakes and want to get out. It looks like a complete mess.”

 

From today's Journal. Don't think the vocal protests will have made us a more attractive proposition for the future, but time will tell.

 

oh come on man!! do you want to be known as BogTron or BigJudas from now on? how can you even suggest that you might even slightly (and by slightly i mean a speck of dust) agree with the notion that the fans may have bit off their nose to spite their face.

[johnnypd]

Ashley still appears to be intent on selling the club and one former Premier League manager who has spoken to The Journal believes the Newcastle manager’s job is widely regarded as a poisoned chalice.

 

He said: “Nobody wants to go there, I haven’t spoken to or heard about a single manager who is interested in the job. Who on earth would want a job like that one?

 

“The owner wants to sell, the supporters are protesting the whole time. The squad is small and the transfer window doesn’t open again for another three months.

 

“It’s a tough job at any time, let alone now. Newcastle is a special club, but it isn’t a club that is attractive to manage any more. The fans don’t give anyone time to achieve anything there and the people who run it have obviously made some mistakes and want to get out. It looks like a complete mess.”

 

From today's Journal. Don't think the vocal protests will have made us a more attractive proposition for the future, but time will tell.

 

oh come on man!! do you want to be known as BogTron or BigJudas from now on? how can you even suggest that you might even slightly (and by slightly i mean a speck of dust) agree with the notion that the fans may have bit off their nose to spite their face.

 

of course the phrases "owner wants to sell" & "squad is small" couldve been highlighted too and the first is undeniably the biggest factor. the root cause behind these two facts is the same root cause behind the supporters protesting, so ultimately that's what makes the job a poisoned chalice. the fans protesting is symptomatic of the club's misrule. it probably doesnt help as such as it can feed the inaccurate & misleading stereotype that we're too demaning but at the same time many would realise that just as the fans vent off during lows they're also a huge resource, even attraction, when we're doing well - managing a team in front of 52,000 relatively vocal fans is more attractive than managing fulham, for instance.

[fredbob]

Ashley still appears to be intent on selling the club and one former Premier League manager who has spoken to The Journal believes the Newcastle managers job is widely regarded as a poisoned chalice.

 

He said: Nobody wants to go there, I havent spoken to or heard about a single manager who is interested in the job. Who on earth would want a job like that one?

 

The owner wants to sell, the supporters are protesting the whole time. The squad is small and the transfer window doesnt open again for another three months.

 

Its a tough job at any time, let alone now. Newcastle is a special club, but it isnt a club that is attractive to manage any more. The fans dont give anyone time to achieve anything there and the people who run it have obviously made some mistakes and want to get out. It looks like a complete mess.

 

From today's Journal. Don't think the vocal protests will have made us a more attractive proposition for the future, but time will tell.

 

oh come on man!! do you want to be known as BogTron or BigJudas from now on? how can you even suggest that you might even slightly (and by slightly i mean a speck of dust) agree with the notion that the fans may have bit off their nose to spite their face.

 

of course the phrases "owner wants to sell" & "squad is small" couldve been highlighted too and the first is undeniably the biggest factor. the root cause behind these two facts is the same root cause behind the supporters protesting, so ultimately that's what makes the job a poisoned chalice. the fans protesting is symptomatic of the club's misrule. it probably doesnt help as such as it can feed the inaccurate & misleading stereotype that we're too demaning but at the same time many would realise that just as the fans vent off during lows they're also a huge resource, even attraction, when we're doing well - managing a team in front of 52,000 relatively vocal fans is more attractive than managing fulham, for instance.

 

Hold on, am i reading this right, in essence you're saying one of the main reasins the fans are protesting are becasue Ashley wasnts to sell? I have to be reading that completely wrong, shirley?

 

In my eys the fans are protesting becasue "the messiah" has walked and its ALL the boards fault, so much so that it's forced them to have to threaten physical violence upon the owners, those poor mis understood creatures - always being misrepresented in the media.

 

Of course NUFC fans are f***ing delusional, they still have no f***ing idea how much damage they've done to this club.

 

 

[Spider Jerusalem]

Triosi didn't even play for the first team, that's like including Nile Ranger ffs.

 

 

 

Is that including Nile Ranger like we are having to do at the minute on the subs bench.

[Baggio]

Triosi didn't even play for the first team, that's like including Nile Ranger ffs.

 

 

 

Is that including Nile Ranger like we are having to do at the minute on the subs bench.

 

Yes, but nobody goes on about him being a new signing because he's only a kid who hasn't represented the first team yet, so why go on about Triosi as if he's some sort of loss when he wasn't even good enough to get any playing time at all, even under the dark days of Roeder when the likes of Alan O'Brien and Matty Pattinson were playing.

[Guest Wally_McFool]

 

Of course NUFC fans are f***ing delusional, they still have no f***ing idea how much damage they've done to this club.

 

 

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC  and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club.

 

On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over  and fuck about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did.

This could and should  ultimately result  in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under  Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators. 

 

 

 

[toonpete1892]

There were too many fans who get sucked in by all of the promises and media speculation when ashley came in, so much so that they thought Newcastle would rapidly have the success of chelsea. When this success wasn't seen on the pitch, the board was an easy target. To have success there needs to be firm foundations and this is the reason why nufc hasn't seen success for many a year - too many comings and goings, too many minor scuffles blown out of proportion, too many massive promises that were never going to be fulfilled etc etc.

 

Obviously these problems aren't all down to the fans but too many place too much pressure and expect to see results straight off rather than in a couple of years. With ashley, there was no risk that the club was going to fold in on itself in the foreseeable duration, so patience was needed to see whether the new regimes and setups would die or flower. Unfortunately, after 50+ years of nothing (or so we keep being told), we are hungry for success and feel 'our time is now'. Things were never going to change over night but after the success chelsea saw in abranovich's first season, many thought 'well why hasn't it'.

 

Keegan's appointment helped to bide ashley with a good few months of time before the masses started to want more, time in which he could get the regimes ironed out and working. Personally I feel the summer transfer window was a success and much better than in recent years - true enough we didnt sign the likes of an owen or a martins, but we got in players that would add some excitment to what was always going to end up a small squad. Creating a bond with fans to ensure that they bought season tickets years in advance was also a positive step forward. It showed ashley that the fans were willing to give him time although some short term success would have been appreciated - maybe UEFA qualification this season. Obviously within the last few weeks/months there have been problems but these were always going to occur, no matter who was driving the ship. Having a fans favourite in keegan may have bought ashley some time but he was always get it in the neck when keegan walked/got the boot. Unfortunately within this short time, a large percentage of fans chose to ignore the positive steps forward in support for their messiah.

 

All in all, errors were made by everyone connected to the club and if it wasn't for a lack of patience and the hunger to be succesful like chelsea from the fans, in two years time we could have been a stronger force and climbing. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that the same fans will get sucked in by any new owner, fall for the same tricks, soon become impatient and be upon their backs come two seasons time. Its a viscous loop that will continue to rotate until this football club purchasing fad passes (maybe seeing the end of many clubs) or the fans give the club's owners a bit of slack to help build foundations.

[Guest neesy111]

until shearer becomes manager and keegan die's the majority of nufc fans will want these 2 in charge on our club

 

if keegan was a footballing miracle maker, why hasn't he won a trophy in his managerial career and only reached the 1/4 finals of a cup competition.

 

Also the fact being a top player doesn't mean they'll be a top manager i.e. ruud gullit, graeme souness

[Willow]

All I want is an owner with a shit ton of money for players, I just don't care anymore about our managers anymore...they tend to last 6 months then something goes horribly wrong

[toonpete1892]

All I want is an owner with a s*** ton of money for players, I just don't care anymore about our managers anymore...they tend to last 6 months then something goes horribly wrong

 

I would personally like to have the club to support in 5 years rather than over paid/rated players now.

[fredbob]

 

Of course NUFC fans are f***ing delusional, they still have no f***ing idea how much damage they've done to this club.

 

 

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC  and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club.

 

On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over  and f*** about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did.

This could and should  ultimately result  in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under  Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators. 

 

 

 

 

Nufc fans will only take to an owner who's gonna lavish them with transfer funds - they're too impatient to see a long term policy and system take shape especially at the expense of a statistically mediocre manager. How many Abramovich's are there out there? Theres something like 2000 billlionaires out there, how many do you think would be keen to blow there money on nufc? A club which now has a history of forcing out the previous incumbents, maybe even 2 of them.

 

How many of these billoinaires at a guess do you think would be keen to own a club where the fans are more powerful than the man with the purse strings?

 

Im still unsure how you've come to the conclusion that he's taken the fans for granted.

 

As for your final dig - the club spends its entire tenure keeping a privacy shield away from the media and with that also the fans and the club is congratulated for keeping out the poisonous press, but the fans couldnt wait 2 weeks to see how things transpired before the club made a statement and is lambasted for the lack of communication.....damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 

You really couldnt make it up.

[magorific]

 

Of course NUFC fans are f***ing delusional, they still have no f***ing idea how much damage they've done to this club.

 

 

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC  and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club.

 

On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over  and f*** about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did.

This could and should  ultimately result  in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under  Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators. 

 

 

 

 

Nufc fans will only take to an owner who's gonna lavish them with transfer funds - they're too impatient to see a long term policy and system take shape especially at the expense of a statistically mediocre manager. How many Abramovich's are there out there? Theres something like 2000 billlionaires out there, how many do you think would be keen to blow there money on nufc? A club which now has a history of forcing out the previous incumbents, maybe even 2 of them.

 

How many of these billoinaires at a guess do you think would be keen to own a club where the fans are more powerful than the man with the purse strings?

 

Im still unsure how you've come to the conclusion that he's taken the fans for granted.

 

As for your final dig - the club spends its entire tenure keeping a privacy shield away from the media and with that also the fans and the club is congratulated for keeping out the poisonous press, but the fans couldnt wait 2 weeks to see how things transpired before the club made a statement and is lambasted for the lack of communication.....damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 

You really couldnt make it up.

 

Rubbish, frankly.

Was there any sign or sound of fans' revolt in the air in the last few weeks of last season? The majority were happy we seemed to be making slow but steady progress under Keegan, with the promise of the squad being significantly - but NOT spectacularly - in the summer.

It wasn't. KK felt betrayed. So do the fans.

[Thespence]

Of course the squad is smaller, I am sure the simple maths will not show this. But with more subs needed this year,  we really needed to sign a few more 1st teamers to reflect this. As we have seen in most games this season, we may have players on the bench but they are just filling up the numbers & neither Keegan or Houghton has looked to send any of the rookies on in league games. I am sure someone will point out if everybody was fit it would be a decent a squad.........aye you may be right but there is more chance of finding pot of gold at end of a rainbow than Newcastle United having a fully fit squad for a Premier League game.

[Dave]

 

Of course NUFC fans are f***ing delusional, they still have no f***ing idea how much damage they've done to this club.

 

 

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC  and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club.

 

On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over  and f*** about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did.

This could and should  ultimately result  in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under  Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators. 

 

 

 

 

Nufc fans will only take to an owner who's gonna lavish them with transfer funds - they're too impatient to see a long term policy and system take shape especially at the expense of a statistically mediocre manager. How many Abramovich's are there out there? Theres something like 2000 billlionaires out there, how many do you think would be keen to blow there money on nufc? A club which now has a history of forcing out the previous incumbents, maybe even 2 of them.

 

How many of these billoinaires at a guess do you think would be keen to own a club where the fans are more powerful than the man with the purse strings?

 

Im still unsure how you've come to the conclusion that he's taken the fans for granted.

 

As for your final dig - the club spends its entire tenure keeping a privacy shield away from the media and with that also the fans and the club is congratulated for keeping out the poisonous press, but the fans couldnt wait 2 weeks to see how things transpired before the club made a statement and is lambasted for the lack of communication.....damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 

You really couldnt make it up.

 

Rubbish, frankly.

Was there any sign or sound of fans' revolt in the air in the last few weeks of last season? The majority were happy we seemed to be making slow but steady progress under Keegan, with the promise of the squad being significantly - but NOT spectacularly - in the summer.

It wasn't. KK felt betrayed. So do the fans.

 

This.

[fredbob]

 

Of course NUFC fans are f***ing delusional, they still have no f***ing idea how much damage they've done to this club.

 

 

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club.

 

On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over and f*** about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did.

This could and should ultimately result in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators.

 

 

 

 

Nufc fans will only take to an owner who's gonna lavish them with transfer funds - they're too impatient to see a long term policy and system take shape especially at the expense of a statistically mediocre manager. How many Abramovich's are there out there? Theres something like 2000 billlionaires out there, how many do you think would be keen to blow there money on nufc? A club which now has a history of forcing out the previous incumbents, maybe even 2 of them.

 

How many of these billoinaires at a guess do you think would be keen to own a club where the fans are more powerful than the man with the purse strings?

 

Im still unsure how you've come to the conclusion that he's taken the fans for granted.

 

As for your final dig - the club spends its entire tenure keeping a privacy shield away from the media and with that also the fans and the club is congratulated for keeping out the poisonous press, but the fans couldnt wait 2 weeks to see how things transpired before the club made a statement and is lambasted for the lack of communication.....damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 

You really couldnt make it up.

 

Rubbish, frankly.

Was there any sign or sound of fans' revolt in the air in the last few weeks of last season? The majority were happy we seemed to be making slow but steady progress under Keegan, with the promise of the squad being significantly - but NOT spectacularly - in the summer.

It wasn't. KK felt betrayed. So do the fans.

 

Why would we look to revolt at the end of last season? If you're trying to say that nufc fans would be happy with an owner who has a long term plan for the club with slow steady progress, then what was wrong with Ashley's plan?

 

Putting aside the still unknown circumstances of Keegans departures, what problems did you see with a club who looked to invest in younger players from around the whole of europe and not just the big clubs of the major leagues, looking to develop them and making them stars for the club?

 

I am more than happy to admit i was very dissapointed with the lack of acitvity surrounding this club - however with a club that was rowing in seperate directions i can see, but not understand why we had so little activity.

 

EDIT: The sad fact of this case is that the fans are using the lack of numbers as another stick to beat Ashley with (which they are well within there rights) but are conviniently forgetting that the clubs squad has dramatically improved.  Which was more important out the 2?

 

Put it simply, would you rather have a good sized squad with similar quality to last year or would you rather have a similar sizeds squad which was better than last year?

 

I know which is more important - you have to ask yourself if you do and if you do you'll understand where you arguments fall down.

[Cronky]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

[johnnypd]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

do you really think this accounts for why everyone is upset? if so i think you're doing the many different arguments and opinions put forth a gigantic disservice.

 

you could easily come out with stuff like 'it seems some people are backing Ashley the idea, a maverick force who drove out the evil Shepherd, saved the club from extinction and was half way round to turning us into the next Arsenal, rather than Ashley the man, who is a deeply flawed individual"

 

as i said, very easy, but that would be as much bollocks as the fanciful idea that "this whole mess" (which was in motion well before fans got wind of it) as you put it, is totally down to the fan's misconception. i hope you have the insight to understand this.

[OzzieMandias]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

Well put.

[johnnypd]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

Well put.

 

sigh

[OzzieMandias]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

do you really think this accounts for why everyone is upset? if so i think you're doing the many different arguments and opinions put forth a gigantic disservice.

 

you could easily come out with stuff like 'it seems some people are backing Ashley the idea, a maverick force who drove out the evil Shepherd, saved the club from extinction and was half way round to turning us into the next Arsenal, rather than Ashley the man, who is a deeply flawed individual"

 

as i said, very easy, but that would be as much bollocks as the fanciful idea that "this whole mess" (which was in motion well before fans got wind of it) as you put it, is totally down to the fan's misconception. i hope you have the insight to understand this.

 

Poorly argued. The cheap sarcasm doesn't help.

[johnnypd]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

do you really think this accounts for why everyone is upset? if so i think you're doing the many different arguments and opinions put forth a gigantic disservice.

 

you could easily come out with stuff like 'it seems some people are backing Ashley the idea, a maverick force who drove out the evil Shepherd, saved the club from extinction and was half way round to turning us into the next Arsenal, rather than Ashley the man, who is a deeply flawed individual"

 

as i said, very easy, but that would be as much bollocks as the fanciful idea that "this whole mess" (which was in motion well before fans got wind of it) as you put it, is totally down to the fan's misconception. i hope you have the insight to understand this.

 

Poorly argued. The cheap sarcasm doesn't help.

 

eh? i wasnt being sarcastic.

 

i was trying to take bobyule's logic out of context so he could more clearly see the basic principles without them being clouded by assumptions. ie showing how someone with a different opinion could use his own logic but to characterise the opinions of ashley supporters or keegan blamers rather than the opposite. it's a lazy argument as it reduces the wealth of opinions down to 'the people who disagree with me are delusional" and it would be a lazy argument even if used to advocate the opposite position.

 

i'll go for it again in a more blunt manner seeing as you didnt get it first time:

 

This whole mess is because some fans have confused Ashley the legend with Ashley the man. Ashley the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true, removing the cause of all our ills in Freddy Shepherd and turning NUFC into a new Arsenal. Ashley the man has never quite lived up to that image. His famous enthusiasm is infectious, baring his belly and wearing the toon top, but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight, the ambition or the drive of the really top club owners. That's why he's turned us into a mess and is getting out at the first sign of trouble.

 

It was Ashley the man who has overseen this mess and is selling up of his own accord, but some people have reacted like we're losing Ashley the legend.

[ChezGiven]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

do you really think this accounts for why everyone is upset? if so i think you're doing the many different arguments and opinions put forth a gigantic disservice.

 

you could easily come out with stuff like 'it seems some people are backing Ashley the idea, a maverick force who drove out the evil Shepherd, saved the club from extinction and was half way round to turning us into the next Arsenal, rather than Ashley the man, who is a deeply flawed individual"

 

as i said, very easy, but that would be as much bollocks as the fanciful idea that "this whole mess" (which was in motion well before fans got wind of it) as you put it, is totally down to the fan's misconception. i hope you have the insight to understand this.

 

Poorly argued. The cheap sarcasm doesn't help.

 

eh? i wasnt being sarcastic.

 

i was trying to take bobyule's logic out of context so he could more clearly see the basic principles without them being clouded by assumptions. ie showing how someone with a different opinion could use his own logic but to characterise the opinions of ashley supporters or keegan blamers rather than the opposite. it's a lazy argument as it reduces the wealth of opinions down to 'the people who disagree with me are delusional" and it would be a lazy argument even if used to advocate the opposite position.

 

i'll go for it again in a more blunt manner seeing as you didnt get it first time:

 

This whole mess is because some fans have confused Ashley the legend with Ashley the man. Ashley the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true, removing the cause of all our ills in Freddy Shepherd and turning NUFC into a new Arsenal. Ashley the man has never quite lived up to that image. His famous enthusiasm is infectious, baring his belly and wearing the toon top, but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight, the ambition or the drive of the really top club owners. That's why he's turned us into a mess and is getting out at the first sign of trouble.

 

It was Ashley the man who has overseen this mess and is selling up of his own accord, but some people have reacted like we're losing Ashley the legend.

 

You what?

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

do you really think this accounts for why everyone is upset? if so i think you're doing the many different arguments and opinions put forth a gigantic disservice.

 

you could easily come out with stuff like 'it seems some people are backing Ashley the idea, a maverick force who drove out the evil Shepherd, saved the club from extinction and was half way round to turning us into the next Arsenal, rather than Ashley the man, who is a deeply flawed individual"

 

as i said, very easy, but that would be as much bollocks as the fanciful idea that "this whole mess" (which was in motion well before fans got wind of it) as you put it, is totally down to the fan's misconception. i hope you have the insight to understand this.

 

Poorly argued. The cheap sarcasm doesn't help.

 

eh? i wasnt being sarcastic.

 

i was trying to take bobyule's logic out of context so he could more clearly see the basic principles without them being clouded by assumptions. ie showing how someone with a different opinion could use his own logic but to characterise the opinions of ashley supporters or keegan blamers rather than the opposite. it's a lazy argument as it reduces the wealth of opinions down to 'the people who disagree with me are delusional" and it would be a lazy argument even if used to advocate the opposite position.

 

i'll go for it again in a more blunt manner seeing as you didnt get it first time:

 

This whole mess is because some fans have confused Ashley the legend with Ashley the man. Ashley the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true, removing the cause of all our ills in Freddy Shepherd and turning NUFC into a new Arsenal. Ashley the man has never quite lived up to that image. His famous enthusiasm is infectious, baring his belly and wearing the toon top, but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight, the ambition or the drive of the really top club owners. That's why he's turned us into a mess and is getting out at the first sign of trouble.

 

It was Ashley the man who has overseen this mess and is selling up of his own accord, but some people have reacted like we're losing Ashley the legend.

 

Oh, I got it the first time. I just thought it was a load of rubbish.

[ChezGiven]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

do you really think this accounts for why everyone is upset? if so i think you're doing the many different arguments and opinions put forth a gigantic disservice.

 

you could easily come out with stuff like 'it seems some people are backing Ashley the idea, a maverick force who drove out the evil Shepherd, saved the club from extinction and was half way round to turning us into the next Arsenal, rather than Ashley the man, who is a deeply flawed individual"

 

as i said, very easy, but that would be as much bollocks as the fanciful idea that "this whole mess" (which was in motion well before fans got wind of it) as you put it, is totally down to the fan's misconception. i hope you have the insight to understand this.

 

Poorly argued. The cheap sarcasm doesn't help.

 

eh? i wasnt being sarcastic.

 

i was trying to take bobyule's logic out of context so he could more clearly see the basic principles without them being clouded by assumptions. ie showing how someone with a different opinion could use his own logic but to characterise the opinions of ashley supporters or keegan blamers rather than the opposite. it's a lazy argument as it reduces the wealth of opinions down to 'the people who disagree with me are delusional" and it would be a lazy argument even if used to advocate the opposite position.

 

i'll go for it again in a more blunt manner seeing as you didnt get it first time:

 

This whole mess is because some fans have confused Ashley the legend with Ashley the man. Ashley the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true, removing the cause of all our ills in Freddy Shepherd and turning NUFC into a new Arsenal. Ashley the man has never quite lived up to that image. His famous enthusiasm is infectious, baring his belly and wearing the toon top, but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight, the ambition or the drive of the really top club owners. That's why he's turned us into a mess and is getting out at the first sign of trouble.

 

It was Ashley the man who has overseen this mess and is selling up of his own accord, but some people have reacted like we're losing Ashley the legend.

 

Oh, I got it the first time. I just thought it was a load of rubbish.

 

The three key words were 'out', 'of' and 'context'.

[johnnypd]

This whole mess is because so many fans have confused Keegan the legend with Keegan the man. Keegan the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true. Keegan the man has never quite lived up to that image. His enthusiasm is infectious but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight or the drive of the really top managers. That's why he's never won a major trophy.

 

It was Keegan the man who walked out, but people have reacted like Ashley sacked Keegan the legend.

 

do you really think this accounts for why everyone is upset? if so i think you're doing the many different arguments and opinions put forth a gigantic disservice.

 

you could easily come out with stuff like 'it seems some people are backing Ashley the idea, a maverick force who drove out the evil Shepherd, saved the club from extinction and was half way round to turning us into the next Arsenal, rather than Ashley the man, who is a deeply flawed individual"

 

as i said, very easy, but that would be as much bollocks as the fanciful idea that "this whole mess" (which was in motion well before fans got wind of it) as you put it, is totally down to the fan's misconception. i hope you have the insight to understand this.

 

Poorly argued. The cheap sarcasm doesn't help.

 

eh? i wasnt being sarcastic.

 

i was trying to take bobyule's logic out of context so he could more clearly see the basic principles without them being clouded by assumptions. ie showing how someone with a different opinion could use his own logic but to characterise the opinions of ashley supporters or keegan blamers rather than the opposite. it's a lazy argument as it reduces the wealth of opinions down to 'the people who disagree with me are delusional" and it would be a lazy argument even if used to advocate the opposite position.

 

i'll go for it again in a more blunt manner seeing as you didnt get it first time:

 

This whole mess is because some fans have confused Ashley the legend with Ashley the man. Ashley the legend is this Messiah-like, larger than life character who is going to make everyone's dreams come true, removing the cause of all our ills in Freddy Shepherd and turning NUFC into a new Arsenal. Ashley the man has never quite lived up to that image. His famous enthusiasm is infectious, baring his belly and wearing the toon top, but it can wane too easily. I don't think he's got the insight, the ambition or the drive of the really top club owners. That's why he's turned us into a mess and is getting out at the first sign of trouble.

 

It was Ashley the man who has overseen this mess and is selling up of his own accord, but some people have reacted like we're losing Ashley the legend.

 

Oh, I got it the first time. I just thought it was a load of rubbish.

 

any particular reason or will you stick to coy snipes?