Coloccini wants out; Sevilla confirm interest

[NJS]

He's probably the best defender we have when someone is running at him tbh, he doesn't lose many one on one's.

 

As I said in the match thread, now that Faye has gone we've lost the physical defender who wins everything in the air which is the sort of defender Colo should be partnered with.

 

Without being too personal, I argued that signing Coloccini and selling Faye was daft but we ended up arguing over which one was better - my point then and now was that it was a good signing as long as Faye stayed.

 

I said after West Ham and how he played Cole I felt he would struggle against physical CFs like Yakubu, Jones and Heskey - I don't like being proved "right" and hope we can find a beast to play along side him.

 

I'm also slightly disappointed that for an Argentinian, he hasn't really hurt anyone yet.

 

 

 

 

 

Faye wanted to go so your argument is/was pointless.

 

Proof?

 

Okay lets say he did - if we intended to sign Coloccini anyway then its still a crime to not sign a replacement given the number of defenders that left.

 

 

[jimmymag]

It fucking amazes me the criticism that Coloccini gets on here, some people wouldn't know class if it sat on their face!

[NJS]

He's probably the best defender we have when someone is running at him tbh, he doesn't lose many one on one's.

 

As I said in the match thread, now that Faye has gone we've lost the physical defender who wins everything in the air which is the sort of defender Colo should be partnered with.

 

Without being too personal, I argued that signing Coloccini and selling Faye was daft but we ended up arguing over which one was better - my point then and now was that it was a good signing as long as Faye stayed.

 

I said after West Ham and how he played Cole I felt he would struggle against physical CFs like Yakubu, Jones and Heskey - I don't like being proved "right" and hope we can find a beast to play along side him.

 

I'm also slightly disappointed that for an Argentinian, he hasn't really hurt anyone yet

 

I think Pavlyuchenko will disagree there

 

He was able to continue.....

[Baggio]

He's probably the best defender we have when someone is running at him tbh, he doesn't lose many one on one's.

 

As I said in the match thread, now that Faye has gone we've lost the physical defender who wins everything in the air which is the sort of defender Colo should be partnered with.

 

Without being too personal, I argued that signing Coloccini and selling Faye was daft but we ended up arguing over which one was better - my point then and now was that it was a good signing as long as Faye stayed.

 

I said after West Ham and how he played Cole I felt he would struggle against physical CFs like Yakubu, Jones and Heskey - I don't like being proved "right" and hope we can find a beast to play along side him.

 

I'm also slightly disappointed that for an Argentinian, he hasn't really hurt anyone yet.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought Faye wanted to leave because he fell out with keegan at half time in one of our games at the end of last season?

 

A good spot from you anyway, we need someone like Samba to come in really and I think they had their eye on a replacement as they went for Senderos.

[Ronaldo]

i think he looks good when players run with him tbh. It's all still fine tuning tbh, he'll come good, very good

[Willow]

Possibly the worst conditions you could ever judge a defender on tbh, confidence is so low atm and he's brand new too, i still think it's harsh to judge him.

 

of course, this is the sensible and correct answer but people on here will still piss themselves if he misses a pass in his first game. you just can't win.

 

I think we could have an outstanding CB for a long time to come in Colo, I admire every part of his game and I think we'll start seeing the best of him when we get the new owners/manager in. Its so unsettling at nufc at the moment, especially when you're at a new club too.

[pedro111]

I am going to put my neck on the line and say he is THE best centre half we have had since Woodgate.

 

Then again looking at the centre halves we have had since Woodgate its not much of a line to put my neck on.

[NJS]

He's probably the best defender we have when someone is running at him tbh, he doesn't lose many one on one's.

 

As I said in the match thread, now that Faye has gone we've lost the physical defender who wins everything in the air which is the sort of defender Colo should be partnered with.

 

Without being too personal, I argued that signing Coloccini and selling Faye was daft but we ended up arguing over which one was better - my point then and now was that it was a good signing as long as Faye stayed.

 

I said after West Ham and how he played Cole I felt he would struggle against physical CFs like Yakubu, Jones and Heskey - I don't like being proved "right" and hope we can find a beast to play along side him.

 

I'm also slightly disappointed that for an Argentinian, he hasn't really hurt anyone yet.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought Faye wanted to leave because he fell out with keegan at half time in one of our games at the end of last season?

 

A good spot from you anyway, we need someone like Samba to come in really and I think they had their eye on a replacement as they went for Senderos.

 

It's been reported like that (Everton?) and I'd be disappointed if either of them couldn't get over it and put it behind them - grudges are a Keegan flaw unfortunately.

 

(See I don't have a Messiah complex )

 

As you say moving forward its about type - I'm not a Taylor fan but on his good days I think he's more of a footballing CH like Collocini (and to a lesser degree Cacapa) - I think we need a mix.

 

 

[Thespence]

It f***ing amazes me the criticism that Coloccini gets on here, some people wouldn't know class if it sat on their face!

 

We are 3rd bottom I am struggling to see our "class" players atm. I could see the class of Gascoigne or Beardsley in shite teams but this fella is not at there level is he. Played for Argentina so did Bassedas & he was gash, I am not saying Colo is gash, hopefully when others are fit the club will rise up the table & he becomes this class player I am told of.

[Tooj]

It fucking amazes me the criticism that Coloccini gets on here, some people wouldn't know class if it sat on their face!

 

You want to bet.

[Baggio]

He's probably the best defender we have when someone is running at him tbh, he doesn't lose many one on one's.

 

As I said in the match thread, now that Faye has gone we've lost the physical defender who wins everything in the air which is the sort of defender Colo should be partnered with.

 

Without being too personal, I argued that signing Coloccini and selling Faye was daft but we ended up arguing over which one was better - my point then and now was that it was a good signing as long as Faye stayed.

 

I said after West Ham and how he played Cole I felt he would struggle against physical CFs like Yakubu, Jones and Heskey - I don't like being proved "right" and hope we can find a beast to play along side him.

 

I'm also slightly disappointed that for an Argentinian, he hasn't really hurt anyone yet.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought Faye wanted to leave because he fell out with keegan at half time in one of our games at the end of last season?

 

A good spot from you anyway, we need someone like Samba to come in really and I think they had their eye on a replacement as they went for Senderos.

 

It's been reported like that (Everton?) and I'd be disappointed if either of them couldn't get over it and put it behind them - grudges are a Keegan flaw unfortunately.

 

(See I don't have a Messiah complex )

 

As you say moving forward its about type - I'm not a Taylor fan but on his good days I think he's more of a footballing CH like Collocini (and to a lesser degree Cacapa) - I think we need a mix.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what type of defender Taylor is tbh,  last season with him and Faye at the back it looked like we were missing out on a defender who's good on the floor that can clean up play and bring it out from the back, most thought Taylor was too similar to faye in that they both wanted to play the role of winning everything in the air.

 

Now Faye has gone and we've got a centre back in who's good on the floor we seem to be missing Faye's ability in the air and Taylor hasn't stepped up to fill that gap so far, it's leaving Coloccini to take the lead and try and win headers against the likes of Yakubu which isn't really his game.

 

If Taylor can't fill that role then I'd like to see Bassong have a crack at filling it before January as he won everything in the air when he came on.

[Ronaldo]

we all knew that this season would be a learning curve for Coloccini, as it is for all defenders who've spent their entire career in the Spanish/Italian league. Except of course for the truly world class and Coloccini, as i said before we signed him isn't quite world class

 

Him and Cacapa could be good together imo. Both classy and intelligent, once they get on the same wavelength we should be ok there, at least till Jan anyway.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If heading isn't really Coloccini's game perhaps playing him at the back isn't so wise...

 

Sorry but that just reads like an excuse. You can win headers against the likes of Yakubu without having to be some kind of beast at the back, Coloccini for £10m should be more than able to compete in the air with strikers like that. I like how you put the blame onto Taylor by the way, Baggio. Isn't Colo the experienced senior international defender?!

 

Interesting you mention heading or competing with strikers like Yakubu not being his game, then what is?

 

That's what I'm concerned about with Colo mainly. Off the ball he does look class I will say that but that doesn't prove anything. When Everton dropped off and sat back in the second half trying to protect their lead it give our midfield some time and space and even Nicky Butt was pinging balls about and he is generally rubbish in possession.

 

If Colo is to step up and show his real class or become a defensive rock for us he needs to be stronger in the air and in a 1v1 tussle. He also needs to stop going walk abouts which he does a lot, vacating his central position for no real reason whatsoever.

 

Has he ever played in a back 3 or is he accustomed to that kind of system? I ask because in a back 3 one of the 3 centre-backs will often vacate their position which Colo is very prone to doing so I'm thinking maybe that is why he keeps doing it or at least I'm hoping why so it can be ironed out with more matches in a 4-4-2 or a flat back four.

 

At times against Everton there was Colo, Taylor and Geremi on the right attracted to the ball or man on the ball which allowed Osman time and space to attack the penalty box totally unopposed or with just Cacapa and Shay in there. This happened several times when Colo vacated his central position to go towards the right side of the final defensive third too.

 

This is a worry and needs pointing out.

 

More often than not defending is all about holding your position and anticipating the ball or man to block it or him off. Its ugly and won't win you many rave reviews but it is essential and good old honest defending. Being Argentinian he should be well schooled in that I'd have thought.

[captainhaircut]

I thought he responded really well second half. Attacked the ball far better, won the majority of tussles and was very calm at the back.

 

He's taking a while to get used to the English game. It's to be expected. You don't get many centre forwards throwing themselves into challenges over in Spain. I'm confident he'll adapt though. His second half showing today suggests to me that he's more than capable of adjusting if need be.

[Guest paulod]

He was absolute class in the second half I thought.

 

Agreed

 

Shaky first half, outstanding 2nd half

[Baggio]

If heading isn't really Coloccini's game perhaps playing him at the back isn't so wise...

 

Sorry but that just reads like an excuse. You can win headers against the likes of Yakubu without having to be some kind of beast at the back, Coloccini for £10m should be more than able to compete in the air with strikers like that. I like how you put the blame onto Taylor by the way, Baggio. Isn't Colo the experienced senior international defender?!

 

Interesting you mention heading or competing with strikers like Yakubu not being his game, then what is?

 

That's what I'm concerned about with Colo mainly. Off the ball he does look class I will say that but that doesn't prove anything. When Everton dropped off and sat back in the second half trying to protect their lead it give our midfield some time and space and even Nicky Butt was pinging balls about and he is generally rubbish in possession.

 

If Colo is to step up and show his real class or become a defensive rock for us he needs to be stronger in the air and in a 1v1 tussle. He also needs to stop going walk abouts which he does a lot, vacating his central position for no real reason whatsoever.

 

Has he ever played in a back 3 or is he accustomed to that kind of system? I ask because in a back 3 one of the 3 centre-backs will often vacate their position which Colo is very prone to doing so I'm thinking maybe that is why he keeps doing it or at least I'm hoping why so it can be ironed out with more matches in a 4-4-2 or a flat back four.

 

At times against Everton there was Colo, Taylor and Geremi on the right attracted to the ball or man on the ball which allowed Osman time and space to attack the penalty box totally unopposed. This happened several times when Colo vacated his central position to go towards the right side of the final defensive third too.

 

This is a worry and needs pointing out.

 

Because I see a defensive partnership being someone who's very good on the deck who's capable of bringing the ball out from the back and the other being more of a defensive rock who wins everything in the air, just because Colo is an experienced international doesn't mean he should be able to be the main ball winner in the air, the same way as i wouldn't expect Gallas or Carvalho to win everything in the air if they were here either, simply because it's not their game either and it's why they have been partnered with defenders who are superior in the air in Terry and Toure.

 

I'm not putting the blame onto Taylor, I'm questioning what sort of defender he is because people kept on about how similar he was to Faye to form a good partnership yet now Faye has gone he's not stepping into that role of being the main ball winner in the air.

[Guest Edd]

He was absolute class in the second half I thought.

 

Agreed

 

Shaky first half, outstanding 2nd half

 

Agreed, but if someone really wants to find fault with someone they'll find it.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I thought he responded really well second half. Attacked the ball far better, won the majority of tussles and was very calm at the back.

 

He did which is a good sign but the game dictated that rather than he as an individual. Everton sat back and dropped off allowing our defence and midfield more time and space on the ball hence our dominance for the majority of that half. If forwards aren't backing into you you will win headers, if they aren't pressing you you can be composed and self assured on the ball. You can also make better decisions. That is how Colo performed but then so did Cacapa too. Indeed most players will perform that way regardless of their ability when they have so much time and space on and off the ball.

 

It is in the thick of the battle however that defines a player's true quality and thus far Coloccini does not, as someone said above stand out in the way your Gazzas did or Beardsleys in the struggling sides of the 80s or like Woodgate would do for us despite the likes of Bramble and O'Brien alongside him. If anything he looks as much of a mess as Taylor does in such an environment.

 

Of course a team playing with more confidence and with better players will not be put under as much pressure as a team with low confidence and poor to average players so Colo will in a better side playing well perform well but so too would Taylor and a number of them.

 

All that really does however is paper over the cracks.

 

Your top players shine regardless hence why Owen is still banging them in despite poor service. Shearer did the same for years. Shay has done wonders between the sticks too despite some absolute dross in front of him.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that thus far, when it comes to the crunch Colo is as good as Taylor is really which isn't good enough.

 

Thus far I repeat because I'm hoping he will grow and grow and grow.

[Guest neesy111]

i worry with cb's that ball watch too much coloccini does this and that is very hard to get out of someone's game

[J7]

I thought he was brilliant second half along with Bassong. I can't believe this thread. When I opened it I expected it to be about his good performance today.

[Heron]

It's far too early to judge him. I think he looks decent so fa rbut he needs some consistancy along side him. No back four can play to its full potential until it has had a substantial period to gel.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If heading isn't really Coloccini's game perhaps playing him at the back isn't so wise...

 

Sorry but that just reads like an excuse. You can win headers against the likes of Yakubu without having to be some kind of beast at the back, Coloccini for £10m should be more than able to compete in the air with strikers like that. I like how you put the blame onto Taylor by the way, Baggio. Isn't Colo the experienced senior international defender?!

 

Interesting you mention heading or competing with strikers like Yakubu not being his game, then what is?

 

That's what I'm concerned about with Colo mainly. Off the ball he does look class I will say that but that doesn't prove anything. When Everton dropped off and sat back in the second half trying to protect their lead it give our midfield some time and space and even Nicky Butt was pinging balls about and he is generally rubbish in possession.

 

If Colo is to step up and show his real class or become a defensive rock for us he needs to be stronger in the air and in a 1v1 tussle. He also needs to stop going walk abouts which he does a lot, vacating his central position for no real reason whatsoever.

 

Has he ever played in a back 3 or is he accustomed to that kind of system? I ask because in a back 3 one of the 3 centre-backs will often vacate their position which Colo is very prone to doing so I'm thinking maybe that is why he keeps doing it or at least I'm hoping why so it can be ironed out with more matches in a 4-4-2 or a flat back four.

 

At times against Everton there was Colo, Taylor and Geremi on the right attracted to the ball or man on the ball which allowed Osman time and space to attack the penalty box totally unopposed. This happened several times when Colo vacated his central position to go towards the right side of the final defensive third too.

 

This is a worry and needs pointing out.

 

Because I see a defensive partnership being someone who's very good on the deck who's capable of bringing the ball out from the back and the other being more of a defensive rock who wins everything in the air, just because Colo is an experienced international doesn't mean he should be able to be the main ball winner in the air, the same way as i wouldn't expect Gallas or Carvalho to win everything in the air if they were here either, simply because it's not their game either and it's why they have been partnered with defenders who are superior in the air in Terry and Toure.

 

I'm not putting the blame onto Taylor, I'm questioning what sort of defender he is because people kept on about how similar he was to Faye to form a good partnership yet now Faye has gone he's not stepping into that role of being the main ball winner in the air.

 

Gallas and Carvalho are both very good in the air and while I understand your point about partnerships that compliment one another is it too much to ask from multi-million pound players to be able to do the basics well enough like heading the ball? It doesn't have to be his game per se of course like it isn't Gallas' or Carvalho's but both when challenged are more than capable in the air and so too should be Colo. I'm not so sure about his ability on the floor either. With time and space as well as options he looks good of course, but I've yet to see him dribble his way out of trouble, use quick feet to escape an attacker or make telling passes which suggest he's something else with the ball or on the floor. He's no Ramage of course but he's no Rio Ferdinand either.

 

As for Taylor, when he's playing centrally you'll find he is the main ball winner in the air - see the Man Utd match away for example or against Arsenal at the Emirates. That's not to say he's great in the air and problem solved, but he does win his fair share and does like to attack that ball whereas Colo seems weak in the air and reluctant to attack it when challenged.

 

I'm hoping this is to do with adapting issues rather than any quality issues because in Spain crossing isn't done as much as it is here and nor is high line pressing forward play from big burly centre-forwards either.

 

I'd like to see him assert himself more though, like his compatriot Jonas has done who isn't a man mountain or a beast.

 

Time will tell.

[Guest Alan_Shearer]

It f***ing amazes me the criticism that Coloccini gets on here, some people wouldn't know class if it sat on their face!

 

Agreed, wtf are you lot on about Colo is amazin! How is he poor in the air his defensive headers are great he's been very dependable and has a cool head, has made very little errors he is very good...

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I can't believe this thread.

 

I don't think anyone is criticising the player or writing him off, just analysing his game based on his performances thus far which I personally think is better than debating the nothing take over talks, going another round with the Freddy Shepherd debate or moaning about this or that. For a change anyway!

[Baggio]

If heading isn't really Coloccini's game perhaps playing him at the back isn't so wise...

 

Sorry but that just reads like an excuse. You can win headers against the likes of Yakubu without having to be some kind of beast at the back, Coloccini for £10m should be more than able to compete in the air with strikers like that. I like how you put the blame onto Taylor by the way, Baggio. Isn't Colo the experienced senior international defender?!

 

Interesting you mention heading or competing with strikers like Yakubu not being his game, then what is?

 

That's what I'm concerned about with Colo mainly. Off the ball he does look class I will say that but that doesn't prove anything. When Everton dropped off and sat back in the second half trying to protect their lead it give our midfield some time and space and even Nicky Butt was pinging balls about and he is generally rubbish in possession.

 

If Colo is to step up and show his real class or become a defensive rock for us he needs to be stronger in the air and in a 1v1 tussle. He also needs to stop going walk abouts which he does a lot, vacating his central position for no real reason whatsoever.

 

Has he ever played in a back 3 or is he accustomed to that kind of system? I ask because in a back 3 one of the 3 centre-backs will often vacate their position which Colo is very prone to doing so I'm thinking maybe that is why he keeps doing it or at least I'm hoping why so it can be ironed out with more matches in a 4-4-2 or a flat back four.

 

At times against Everton there was Colo, Taylor and Geremi on the right attracted to the ball or man on the ball which allowed Osman time and space to attack the penalty box totally unopposed. This happened several times when Colo vacated his central position to go towards the right side of the final defensive third too.

 

This is a worry and needs pointing out.

 

Because I see a defensive partnership being someone who's very good on the deck who's capable of bringing the ball out from the back and the other being more of a defensive rock who wins everything in the air, just because Colo is an experienced international doesn't mean he should be able to be the main ball winner in the air, the same way as i wouldn't expect Gallas or Carvalho to win everything in the air if they were here either, simply because it's not their game either and it's why they have been partnered with defenders who are superior in the air in Terry and Toure.

 

I'm not putting the blame onto Taylor, I'm questioning what sort of defender he is because people kept on about how similar he was to Faye to form a good partnership yet now Faye has gone he's not stepping into that role of being the main ball winner in the air.

 

Gallas and Carvalho are both very good in the air and while I understand your point about partnerships that compliment one another is it too much to ask from multi-million pound players to be able to do the basics well enough like heading the ball? It doesn't have to be his game per se of course like it isn't Gallas' or Carvalho's but both when challenged are more than capable in the air and so too should be Colo. I'm not so sure about his ability on the floor either. With time and space as well as options he looks good of course, but I've yet to see him dribble his way out of trouble, use quick feet to escape an attacker or make telling passes which suggest he's something else with the ball or on the floor. He's no Ramage of course but he's no Rio Ferdinand either.

 

As for Taylor, when he's playing centrally you'll find he is the main ball winner in the air - see the Man Utd match away for example or against Arsenal at the Emirates. That's not to say he's great in the air and problem solved, but he does win his fair share and does like to attack that ball whereas Colo seems weak in the air and reluctant to attack it when challenged.

 

I'm hoping this is to do with adapting issues rather than any quality issues because in Spain crossing isn't done as much as it is here and nor is high line pressing forward play from big burly centre-forwards either.

 

I'd like to see him assert himself more though, like his compatriot Jonas has done who isn't a man mountain or a beast.

 

Time will tell.

 

He does win his fair share of headers in the box though similar to Gallas and Carvalho, he's just not going to win every long ball forward when he's in a straight jump against the more dominant strikers in the Premiership, but neither does Gallas or Carvalho, that's why they have the likes of John Terry partnering them who comes out and win practically every long ball that gets pumped down field.

 

What we need is a big dominant partner to play next to him if Taylor and Bassong are not up to playing that role.