RIP DOF TBH?

[fredbob]

NUFC's best spell of late came with a DOF in place

 

How quickly this is forgotten.

 

Theres 2 things that people seem to refuse to answer - what actually went on behind the scenes at this club? And whats the difference with the 'DOF signing players over the managers head with no apprent reason' (not my view of things) or a chairmen 'signing a player over the managers head with no apprent reason'?

 

I'm very confident that we've experinced both sitautions yet one system is derided for this behaviour and the other is lauded as our saviour and the only option....

 

 

[madras]

NUFC's best spell of late came with a DOF in place

 

How quickly this is forgotten.

 

Theres 2 things that people seem to refuse to answer - what actually went on behind the scenes at this club? And whats the difference with the 'DOF signing players over the managers head with no apprent reason' (not my view of things) or a chairmen 'signing a player over the managers head with no apprent reason'?

 

I'm very confident that we've experinced both sitautions yet one system is derided for this behaviour and the other is lauded as our saviour and the only option....

 

 

my gues is that each DOF at each club has a differing remit from the others..

[James]

There cetainly remains one DoF system in England that seems to be working (to an extent).

 

Arnesen at Chelsea. With a clearly defined focus on youth, he has been able to draw in a lot of youth talent without stepping on toes when it comes to first team affairs.

 

Shame it seems to be at a club where the pressures are to only select established players.

 

I'd be all in favour of the FA capping squad sizes at 20 and telling clubs that any additional players must be under-25s with less than 50 first team appearances.

 

What a ridiculous idea, wouldn't this mean that teams weren't keen to ever get their youngsters past 50 appearances? You wouldn't see them getting as many substitute outings surely.

 

Basically, at the end of each window, each team would have to name a twenty man squad made up of over-25's or youngsters who have established themselves. Youngsters don't play 50 games if they aren't established.

[Robster]

NUFC's best spell of late came with a DOF in place

 

Best compared to what though ?

[80]

NUFC's best spell of late came with a DOF in place

 

Best compared to what though ?

 

It was pretty decent by most people's standards, to be fair. I don't think the end of the Robson reign's success has been attributed to Gordon Milne's presence by anyone. Now that said, it was a quite different version of the 'DoF' system - there was no question regarding who was the important figure at the club and Milne was wholly subservient to our manager (a manager who also had some experience of DoF roles when he himself created ours).

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

There cetainly remains one DoF system in England that seems to be working (to an extent).

 

Arnesen at Chelsea. With a clearly defined focus on youth, he has been able to draw in a lot of youth talent without stepping on toes when it comes to first team affairs.

 

Shame it seems to be at a club where the pressures are to only select established players.

 

I'd be all in favour of the FA capping squad sizes at 20 and telling clubs that any additional players must be under-25s with less than 50 first team appearances.

Arnesen has done a poor job at Chelsea actually. Surprising considering he was top class at Spurs. The youth program at Chelsea has really not developed as well as they would have liked. The two biggest transfers really accredited to him are Kalou and Mikel John Obi. These two players have done well at Chelsea, but Kalou was not cheap, and Obi ended up costing them 16 million pounds, so it kind of defeats the point.

 

 

I think the people crying the "death" of this director of football system are just fools by the way. It didn't work at this club. But let's be honest with ourselves, nothing much has worked here for a while now. This club has been a shambles for several seasons now. We haven't experienced a downturn this year in my opinion. We are just continuing the pattern of terrible teams, that has been set here. Things were actually looking up imo. We got in some nice players. Young ones too, but then in typical fashion everything imploded. This DOF system has nothing to do with the failure of a club that is Newcastle United.

[Baggio]

The system worked for Spurs until they sold their key players on top of shipping out half the squad.

 

If anything, I think Spurs' failure is proof that you dont sell your best players on top of making wholesale changes to the squad and expect things to pick up as they left off. The good old "if it's not broke, dont fix it" rule.

 

Pretty much hits the nail on the head, you can't sell a partnership like Keane and Berbatov and expect to improve, it's hard for anyone to keep their best players when the big four come calling and Pavlychenko (sp?) hasn't hit the ground running which has made it even harder.

 

They've signed some quality players since Ramos has been there and there's been some envious eyes from our supporters in the process, Woodgate, Modric, Bentley, Corluka, Hutton, Pavlychenko, Dos Santos and Gomes are all of a decent standard and most people would have liked them here, Ramos just didn't look like inspiring them or getting the best out of what is a quality squad of players.

 

Comolli has been sacrificed to buy Levy more time and I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up back at Arsenal.

[fredbob]

Aye, the fact that they've sold there 2 main strikers and 50 goals seems to be stupidly underplayed and ignored fact, if any team in the premiership sold there 2 most productive strikers they;d be fucked as well, but it wouldnt be indicative of the fact that the system is a failure.

 

Man U go and sell Ronaldo and Rooney they;d be down the league like spurs but no one would say that there system has failed

 

 

[Dave]

Aye, the fact that they've sold there 2 main strikers and 50 goals seems to be stupidly underplayed and ignored fact, if any team in the premiership sold there 2 most productive strikers they;d be fucked as well, but it wouldnt be indicative of the fact that the system is a failure.

 

Man U go and sell Ronaldo and Rooney they;d be down the league like spurs but no one would say that there system has failed

 

 

 

Who sold/replaced them?

[juniatmoko]

Aye, the fact that they've sold there 2 main strikers and 50 goals seems to be stupidly underplayed and ignored fact, if any team in the premiership sold there 2 most productive strikers they;d be f***ed as well, but it wouldnt be indicative of the fact that the system is a failure.

 

Man U go and sell Ronaldo and Rooney they;d be down the league like spurs but no one would say that there system has failed

 

 

 

Who sold/replaced them?

 

nail on the head dave!

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Aye, the fact that they've sold there 2 main strikers and 50 goals seems to be stupidly underplayed and ignored fact, if any team in the premiership sold there 2 most productive strikers they;d be f***ed as well, but it wouldnt be indicative of the fact that the system is a failure.

 

Man U go and sell Ronaldo and Rooney they;d be down the league like spurs but no one would say that there system has failed

 

 

 

Who sold/replaced them?

Dave, the standard has been set in this league. Gareth Barry was def. an exception. For the most part when a top four club wants your player, they get him. It's sad but true.

[Yorkie]

I still reckon it'd work with the right sort of (yes-man) manager. Failing that, a competent one, which Ramos clealy wasn't.

 

Aye, Spurs lost two of their best players but i watched them a few times last season and i thought Keane was simply the lesser of two evils. Berbatov wanted to leave the club, that's not the alleged system's fault, is it? As for £20m for Robbie Keane? Come on now, they'd be insane to turn that down.

 

I appreciate it's more about the fact that they apparantely didn't replace them. But if Juande Ramos cannot get a team with Bent, Pavlyuchenko, Bentley, Modric, Jenas, Dos Santos, Hutton, Bale, Woodgate, Gomes playing good football (never mind avoiding relegation), then he's not worth his salt imo. He was doing a shite job, let's face it.

 

System's fault? Shrug. They'd made some fucking quality signings in the summer, surprised us all, and i know that i for one was envious.

 

The situation here is entirely different and revolves around the first sentence of this post. Keegan was a joke of an appointment if this was thw planned formula. It was never gonna work, he's got too big an ego, and it stank of Ashley et al not knowing their football, really.

 

Employ the right manager (motivator/tactician), someone who can lead training, then the system might still work. And i think it will end up working a short while down the line. One club will get it to click and we'll go from there (providing everyone isn't bought out by a money-mad Sheikh).

[Baggio]

I still reckon it'd work with the right sort of (yes-man) manager. Failing that, a competent one, which Ramos clealy wasn't.

 

Aye, Spurs lost two of their best players but i watched them a few times last season and i thought Keane was simply the lesser of two evils. Berbatov wanted to leave the club, that's not the alleged system's fault, is it? As for £20m for Robbie Keane? Come on now, they'd be insane to turn that down.

 

I appreciate it's more about the fact that they apparantely didn't replace them. But if Juande Ramos cannot get a team with Bent, Pavlyuchenko, Bentley, Modric, Jenas, Dos Santos, Hutton, Bale, Woodgate, Gomes playing good football (never mind avoiding relegation), then he's not worth his salt imo. He was doing a shite job, let's face it.

 

System's fault? Shrug. They'd made some fucking quality signings in the summer, surprised us all, and i know that i for one was envious.

 

The situation here is entirely different and revolves around the first sentence of this post. Keegan was a joke of an appointment if this was thw planned formula. It was never gonna work, he's got too big an ego, and it stank of Ashley et al not knowing their football, really.

 

Employ the right manager (motivator/tactician), someone who can lead training, then the system might still work. And i think it will end up working a short while down the line. One club will get it to click and we'll go from there (providing everyone isn't bought out by a money-mad Sheikh).

 

Keane wanted to leave too, Spurs didn't want to sell him and reported Liverpool for tapping him up but after he made it clear that he didn't want to stay and handed in a transfer request then they had little choice with the money on offer.

[Thespence]

They've signed some quality players since Ramos has been there and there's been some envious eyes from our supporters in the process, Woodgate, Modric, Bentley, Corluka, Hutton, Pavlychenko, Dos Santos and Gomes are all of a decent standard and most people would have liked them here, Ramos just didn't look like inspiring them or getting the best out of what is a quality squad of players.

 

That being the one of the main problems, Comical got sucked into signing names in the end & failed to address the team needs. They have no one of note for left wing & have not got a decent DM so the that most of the midfield fucked. You look at right back & they have Gunther, Corluka & Hutton, fucking bizarre.

 

The DOF only really worked at Spurs when Arnsen & Jol were working together because they both trusted each other. The benefits of that partnership helped them get a couple of 5th place's. When Arnsen first arrived at Spurs it was not working out because him & Jacky Santini could not work together.

 

Ramos can work with a DOF but I think he was expecting the DOF to bring players in that he needs & not just go out sign AM's like it is FM.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

NUFC's best spell of late came with a DOF in place

 

How quickly this is forgotten.

 

Theres 2 things that people seem to refuse to answer - what actually went on behind the scenes at this club? And whats the difference with the 'DOF signing players over the managers head with no apprent reason' (not my view of things) or a chairmen 'signing a player over the managers head with no apprent reason'?

 

I'm very confident that we've experinced both sitautions yet one system is derided for this behaviour and the other is lauded as our saviour and the only option....

 

 

 

Milne wasn't really a DOF, he was more of a scout. Sir Bobby was in full control of buying and selling and had no-one but the chairman to report to.

 

If people want to be pedantic, then we won 4 league titles under a DOF (Frank Watt) and numerous FA Cups. Lets not try and rewrite history here.

[Baggio]

They've signed some quality players since Ramos has been there and there's been some envious eyes from our supporters in the process, Woodgate, Modric, Bentley, Corluka, Hutton, Pavlychenko, Dos Santos and Gomes are all of a decent standard and most people would have liked them here, Ramos just didn't look like inspiring them or getting the best out of what is a quality squad of players.

 

That being the one of the main problems, Comical got sucked into signing names in the end & failed to address the team needs. They have no one of note for left wing & have not got a decent DM so the that most of the midfield fucked. You look at right back & they have Gunther, Corluka & Hutton, fucking bizarre.

 

The DOF only really worked at Spurs when Arnsen & Jol were working together because they both trusted each other. The benefits of that partnership helped them get a couple of 5th place's. When Arnsen first arrived at Spurs it was not working out because him & Jacky Santini could not work together.

 

Ramos can work with a DOF but I think he was expecting the DOF to bring players in that he needs & not just go out sign AM's like it is FM.

 

They've already got Huddlestone and Zakora that can sit deep in midfield and most thought Modric would do the job when he came in in a similar way to the job Carrick done when he was there, they need someone else down the left as I don't think Lennon is that good on the opposite side but I'd have bought a new left back and played Bale on the wing where I think he's better off, Corluka's a quality centre back too and I think he was brought in because of the problems with fitness Ledley King has.

 

Not many clubs fill every single position that needs filling in one transfer window but with the players they have got Spurs should be much higher than they are at the moment, that is down to Ramos and he's lost his job because of it.

[Yorkie]

They've signed some quality players since Ramos has been there and there's been some envious eyes from our supporters in the process, Woodgate, Modric, Bentley, Corluka, Hutton, Pavlychenko, Dos Santos and Gomes are all of a decent standard and most people would have liked them here, Ramos just didn't look like inspiring them or getting the best out of what is a quality squad of players.

 

The DOF only really worked at Spurs when Arnsen & Jol were working together because they both trusted each other. The benefits of that partnership helped them get a couple of 5th place's. When Arnsen first arrived at Spurs it was not working out because him & Jacky Santini could not work together.

 

Agreed, and this speaks volumes really. It's pretty much what i'm saying. Santini was an established manager, he'd done his own thing with Lyon and then the French national team. He'd been a manager for twenty years or so before joining the set-up at Tottenham. Makes you wonder why they appoint such people? Granted, he was negative as fuck and struggled with the language, but still.

 

Enter Jol; new, cultured. Only other history of being a manager was with Dutch amateur teams and lower-division sides. But generally regarded as a very good coach and motivator. There you go, the system clicks. Most successful period in the clubs history, with a manager with essentially no history.

 

Yes... he left after disagreements with the 'DOF', who was by that point Comolli. It worked with Jol and Arnesen. I know my arguments is based around the idea that you've got to appoint the right manager, but i appreciate it works both ways, you need the right DOF too.

 

It can work and it has worked. If you appoint the right people.

[Baggio]

NUFC's best spell of late came with a DOF in place

 

How quickly this is forgotten.

 

Theres 2 things that people seem to refuse to answer - what actually went on behind the scenes at this club? And whats the difference with the 'DOF signing players over the managers head with no apprent reason' (not my view of things) or a chairmen 'signing a player over the managers head with no apprent reason'?

 

I'm very confident that we've experinced both sitautions yet one system is derided for this behaviour and the other is lauded as our saviour and the only option....

 

 

 

Milne wasn't really a DOF, he was more of a scout. Sir Bobby was in full control of buying and selling and had no-one but the chairman to report to.

 

If people want to be pedantic, then we won 4 league titles under a DOF (Frank Watt) and numerous FA Cups. Lets not try and rewrite history here.

 

Who sold Gary Speed?

 

[madras]

NUFC's best spell of late came with a DOF in place

 

How quickly this is forgotten.

 

Theres 2 things that people seem to refuse to answer - what actually went on behind the scenes at this club? And whats the difference with the 'DOF signing players over the managers head with no apprent reason' (not my view of things) or a chairmen 'signing a player over the managers head with no apprent reason'?

 

I'm very confident that we've experinced both sitautions yet one system is derided for this behaviour and the other is lauded as our saviour and the only option....

 

 

 

Milne wasn't really a DOF, he was more of a scout. Sir Bobby was in full control of buying and selling and had no-one but the chairman to report to.

 

If people want to be pedantic, then we won 4 league titles under a DOF (Frank Watt) and numerous FA Cups. Lets not try and rewrite history here.

thats why i also pointed out that probably every DOF at each club has a different remit.

 

out of pedanticism i don't think wise was ever titled "director of football"

[Thespence]

They've already got Huddlestone and Zakora that can sit deep in midfield and most thought Modric would do the job when he came in in a similar way to the job Carrick done when he was there, they need someone else down the left as I don't think Lennon is that good on the opposite side but I'd have bought a new left back and played Bale on the wing where I think he's better off, Corluka's a quality centre back too and I think he was brought in because of the problems with fitness Ledley King has.

 

Not many clubs fill every single position that needs filling in one transfer window but with the players they have got Spurs should be much higher than they are at the moment, that is down to Ramos and he's lost his job because of it.

 

They are both shit at defending. Huddlestone is getting worse by the year & Zakora has never impressed. First window watch Arry go & sign a 6ft+ african ball winner. Pint pot Modric could not control a Premier League game from deep, he would be about as good as Veron was.

 

How many transfer windows have passed & they have not signed a LW? Yes they do have a good collection of players but they do not have a good team.

 

I noticed you mentioned Levy further up, he has to take the rap for the Berba farce. He squeezed more money out the Mancs by playing hard ball but at great cost to his team.

[Guest Stephen927]

Don't they have that Gilberto for left wing that they signed from Hertha Berlin? What happened to him?

[Baggio]

They've already got Huddlestone and Zakora that can sit deep in midfield and most thought Modric would do the job when he came in in a similar way to the job Carrick done when he was there, they need someone else down the left as I don't think Lennon is that good on the opposite side but I'd have bought a new left back and played Bale on the wing where I think he's better off, Corluka's a quality centre back too and I think he was brought in because of the problems with fitness Ledley King has.

 

Not many clubs fill every single position that needs filling in one transfer window but with the players they have got Spurs should be much higher than they are at the moment, that is down to Ramos and he's lost his job because of it.

 

They are both shit at defending. Huddlestone is getting worse by the year & Zakora has never impressed. First window watch Arry go & sign a 6ft+ african ball winner. Pint pot Modric could not control a Premier League game from deep, he would be about as good as Veron was.

 

How many transfer windows have passed & they have not signed a LW? Yes they do have a good collection of players but they do not have a good team.

 

I noticed you mentioned Levy further up, he has to take the rap for the Berba farce. He squeezed more money out the Mancs by playing hard ball but at great cost to his team.

 

So what position did you see Modric playing then? Because all of the talk when he signed was either to play in Carrick's role sat deep spreading the ball around or on the left side of midfield, that covers both of the positions that you think they need to fill, he was never going to come in as an attacking midfielder.

 

Redknapp will probably go for Diarra and swap to a 4-5-1 formation.

[Thespence]

Don't they have that Gilberto for left wing that they signed from Hertha Berlin? What happened to him?

 

I thought he was a left wing back

[Thespence]

They've already got Huddlestone and Zakora that can sit deep in midfield and most thought Modric would do the job when he came in in a similar way to the job Carrick done when he was there, they need someone else down the left as I don't think Lennon is that good on the opposite side but I'd have bought a new left back and played Bale on the wing where I think he's better off, Corluka's a quality centre back too and I think he was brought in because of the problems with fitness Ledley King has.

 

Not many clubs fill every single position that needs filling in one transfer window but with the players they have got Spurs should be much higher than they are at the moment, that is down to Ramos and he's lost his job because of it.

 

They are both s*** at defending. Huddlestone is getting worse by the year & Zakora has never impressed. First window watch Arry go & sign a 6ft+ african ball winner. Pint pot Modric could not control a Premier League game from deep, he would be about as good as Veron was.

 

How many transfer windows have passed & they have not signed a LW? Yes they do have a good collection of players but they do not have a good team.

 

I noticed you mentioned Levy further up, he has to take the rap for the Berba farce. He squeezed more money out the Mancs by playing hard ball but at great cost to his team.

 

So what position did you see Modric playing then? Because all of the talk when he signed was either to play in Carrick's role sat deep spreading the ball around or on the left side of midfield, that covers both of the positions that you think they need to fill, he was never going to come in as an attacking midfielder.

 

Redknapp will probably go for Diarra and swap to a 4-5-1 formation.

 

Someone mentioned on Sky that Spurs signed him to play in 4-2-3-1 & he would function in the 3 behind the stirker. I think if he is deep he will get batterd out of the game.

[fredbob]

Aye, the fact that they've sold there 2 main strikers and 50 goals seems to be stupidly underplayed and ignored fact, if any team in the premiership sold there 2 most productive strikers they;d be f***ed as well, but it wouldnt be indicative of the fact that the system is a failure.

 

Man U go and sell Ronaldo and Rooney they;d be down the league like spurs but no one would say that there system has failed

 

 

 

Who sold/replaced them?

 

Comolli sold them? Is that what you're saying?

 

Or did the chairmen sell the players? Like chairmen have done throughout football history.

 

In fact unless I'm mistaken, the DOF targeted Arshavin but the chairmen didnt rise to the occasion. So is Spurs current situation still categorically and exclusively the fault of the DoF?

 

Persoanlly i'm not sure it is.