Jump to content

What's your best plausible scenario...?


Rocker

Recommended Posts

Here's a fact: Keegan was briefing the media against the club before the summer transfer window opened.

 

Evidence: The Media Thread.

 

Implications: Keegan knew that he did not have total control over transfers from the outset, before the window opened and during the window when e.g. Colo and Guti were signed.

 

Conclusion: If he was acting on principles, he should either 1) never accepted the job or 2) reigned earlier instead of discussing it 'off the record' with Louise Taylor.

 

if a man has principles, he acts on them without haste, not 7 months later.

 

Your opening 'fact' is actually your own subjective reading of the situation by interpretating media reports in a certain way. if you look at louise taylor's email responses to people on here you see that she doesnt mention briefings by any party or anonymous sources (other than something about arthur cox), but things like "Body Language" and "keegan's tone of voice" iirc. It suggests he was unhappy and, in hindsight, was engaged in a behind the scenes battle for influence. *That* is acting on principle more than giving in at the first sign of an obstacle. even if he was briefing media parties, which is possible, i don't see that as particularly bad, in fact it would be another sign that he was engaged in a behind the scenes battle for influence.

 

it's likely that he had the ear of a trusted journo, but it's ludicrous to think he was holding secret behind closed door meetings. maybe one journo was onto something, the rest were fishing around for whatever shit they could. more likely keegan put out signals to non-journalists ie Les Ferdinand who came out with some rather telling comments just days before the whole thing blew up which most people waved away at the time. that would make more sense imo.

 

Well you got the first bit wrong so everything that follows cant make much sense. LT reported the 'bizarre' press conference at Newcastle airport (something for flybe.com) where everything keegan said was 'off the record'. Email responses to people on here? Seriously? Do you think i'm stupid or something?

 

Also, anyone with half a brain would be able to tell you that if something reported in the press (that no-one believes and is considered outrageous by all) turns out to have been true all along and was reported with accuracy and consistency for so long, then there has to be a source.

 

I've been over all this before, the fact that again you are forcing me to type out again things like "was Louise Taylor hiding behind a curtain in the boardroom?" and "why would anyone associated with Ashley leak stories to the press against themselves?" shows you refused to see the obvious a few months ago, as well as now, now that the details of events start to fade in the memory. Its all preserved in the media thread, i recommend a re-read.

 

You think its unlikely that these stories came from the Keegan camp, i would strongly counter that with they were the result of off the record conversations with Keegan himself and his close associates. A journalist would never disclose this.

 

Your view is that a few journalists guessed with unnerving accuracy the finer details of the entire backroom political structure within the club on the basis of a few facial tics.

 

My view is there was a direct source as it turned out to be completely true all along. This is based on simple observation, facts and common sense.

 

not sure what point you're trying to make by micro analysing some press reports as if anything it backs up the idea that keegan was struggling to change things from within. i think the press were picking up on unrest - for instance the Keegan outburst after the chelsea game which caused the meeting in London, dissatisfaction with transfer work, reticence and sarcasm at press conference. They were right about the general mood of unease, but not the details, and probably have numerous sources, some accurate, many more bullshit.

 

It's like saying, once the club is sold to someone, that the press were right in aimlessly and randomlly listing people who were due to buy the club. completely wrong- they were picking up on themes, making a few guesses, listening to a variety of sources (some accurate, many more bullshit) and printing a rough assemblage of speculation, filling in the blanks with whispers theyve picked up from here or there.

 

that's what happened with Keegan too, most likely. As i said, i can well imagine keegan had the ear of a trusted journo, but to suggest he was disseminating propaganda in secret is the realms of fantasy. more likely he was telling trusted non-journos and info was getting back second, third, or fourth-hand to the newspapers - with all the embellishments and mistakes that come with such chinese whispers. the one time someone seemed spot on was when Les Ferdinand spoke out shortly before the Keegan furore erupted and i was one of the few on here who listen to what he had to say. pity you werent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a fact: Keegan was briefing the media against the club before the summer transfer window opened.

 

Evidence: The Media Thread.

 

Implications: Keegan knew that he did not have total control over transfers from the outset, before the window opened and during the window when e.g. Colo and Guti were signed.

 

Conclusion: If he was acting on principles, he should either 1) never accepted the job or 2) reigned earlier instead of discussing it 'off the record' with Louise Taylor.

 

if a man has principles, he acts on them without haste, not 7 months later.

 

Your opening 'fact' is actually your own subjective reading of the situation by interpretating media reports in a certain way. if you look at louise taylor's email responses to people on here you see that she doesnt mention briefings by any party or anonymous sources (other than something about arthur cox), but things like "Body Language" and "keegan's tone of voice" iirc. It suggests he was unhappy and, in hindsight, was engaged in a behind the scenes battle for influence. *That* is acting on principle more than giving in at the first sign of an obstacle. even if he was briefing media parties, which is possible, i don't see that as particularly bad, in fact it would be another sign that he was engaged in a behind the scenes battle for influence.

 

it's likely that he had the ear of a trusted journo, but it's ludicrous to think he was holding secret behind closed door meetings. maybe one journo was onto something, the rest were fishing around for whatever shit they could. more likely keegan put out signals to non-journalists ie Les Ferdinand who came out with some rather telling comments just days before the whole thing blew up which most people waved away at the time. that would make more sense imo.

 

Well you got the first bit wrong so everything that follows cant make much sense. LT reported the 'bizarre' press conference at Newcastle airport (something for flybe.com) where everything keegan said was 'off the record'. Email responses to people on here? Seriously? Do you think i'm stupid or something?

 

Also, anyone with half a brain would be able to tell you that if something reported in the press (that no-one believes and is considered outrageous by all) turns out to have been true all along and was reported with accuracy and consistency for so long, then there has to be a source.

 

I've been over all this before, the fact that again you are forcing me to type out again things like "was Louise Taylor hiding behind a curtain in the boardroom?" and "why would anyone associated with Ashley leak stories to the press against themselves?" shows you refused to see the obvious a few months ago, as well as now, now that the details of events start to fade in the memory. Its all preserved in the media thread, i recommend a re-read.

 

You think its unlikely that these stories came from the Keegan camp, i would strongly counter that with they were the result of off the record conversations with Keegan himself and his close associates. A journalist would never disclose this.

 

Your view is that a few journalists guessed with unnerving accuracy the finer details of the entire backroom political structure within the club on the basis of a few facial tics.

 

My view is there was a direct source as it turned out to be completely true all along. This is based on simple observation, facts and common sense.

 

not sure what point you're trying to make by micro analysing some press reports as if anything it backs up the idea that keegan was struggling to change things from within. i think the press were picking up on unrest - for instance the Keegan outburst after the chelsea game which caused the meeting in London, dissatisfaction with transfer work, reticence and sarcasm at press conference. They were right about the general mood of unease, but not the details, and probably have numerous sources, some accurate, many more bullshit.

 

It's like saying, once the club is sold to someone, that the press were right in aimlessly and randomlly listing people who were due to buy the club. completely wrong- they were picking up on themes, making a few guesses, listening to a variety of sources (some accurate, many more bullshit) and printing a rough assemblage of speculation, filling in the blanks with whispers theyve picked up from here or there.

 

that's what happened with Keegan too, most likely. As i said, i can well imagine keegan had the ear of a trusted journo, but to suggest he was disseminating propaganda in secret is the realms of fantasy. more likely he was telling trusted non-journos and info was getting back second, third, or fourth-hand to the newspapers - with all the embellishments and mistakes that come with such chinese whispers. the one time someone seemed spot on was when Les Ferdinand spoke out shortly before the Keegan furore erupted and i was one of the few on here who listen to what he had to say. pity you werent.

 

The press reports about Keegan's dissatisfaction started way before the Chelsea match and fuelled the reporting of the 'show-down' talks which that game prompted.

 

In my view Keegan was briefing journalists off the record, this is not countered by calling it 'disseminating propaganda', thats just spin in itself to discredit a very plausible and evidence-based point of view.

 

Of course he was trying to change things from within, thats my point, he knew about the problems all along.

 

He should have saved the club from relegation and then resigned imo. Easy in retrospect of course.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Johnny Clay

 

You think it's debatable then? I'd say the responsibility for the mess lies with the bloke who bought the club lock, stock and barrel, appointed the people he decided were best suited to the job and got us where we are now. Which happens to be s***, and in serious danger of getting relegated. Or are you going to suggest that it's Keegan's fault?

 

 

 

You said you wanted to kill Wise, Keegan said he approved of the appointment.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2290428/Kevin-Keegan-relaxed-about-Dennis-Wise-role.html

 

Kevin Keegan said last night that Newcastle's appointment of Dennis Wise to the management team had his blessing - provided that Keegan is allowed to get on with his job of turning the club into a major force in the Premier League.

 

Wise, who confirmed his resignation as manager of Leeds United earlier in the day, was installed as Newcastle's executive director (football), effectively the club's unofficial director of football, and sat next to Chris Mort as his new team suffered a second 3-0 defeat at the Emirates Stadium in four days.

 

 

"I think it's positive," Keegan said, "as long as I can get on with my job and I get all the help I need as it has been put to me. You'd be a fool to say, 'I don't want that'.

 

"I talked with Dennis before the game and he wished us all the best. I knew he was one of two or three names put forward.

 

"There's been no deception, it's been very open. I'm fine. I pretty much know, from conversations we've had, what Dennis is going to do and the idea, in principle, is very good, to go and look for new players, to bring a lot of youngsters in.

 

"I'm all for the changes, it's not a problem, I approve of them. We had this discussion when I took the job.

 

"They want somebody on the board who understands football and Dennis Wise, whatever anybody wants to write about him, understands football. I know Dennis and I think it'll work very well. He'll report to me."

 

Wise, the former Chelsea captain, will be joined on Tyneside by Tony Jimenez as vice-president (player recruitment) and Jeff Vetere, who joins from Real Madrid to take up the position of technical co-ordinator.

 

"This is all part of the vision that recently helped us to secure Kevin Keegan's return to the club as manager," Mort added.

 

The arrival of Wise will have no impact on former Newcastle captain Alan Shearer's situation after he rejected the chance to become manager Kevin Keegan's No 2, though it seems certain he will have no formal involvement with his hometown club but will continue to concentrate on his media commitments.

 

 

Keegan was able to include Joey Barton for the first time after his bail conditions were changed. Barton, 25, was charged with assault and affray last month, and ordered by a High Court judge to live in Hampshire and return by 7.30pm each day.

 

He was being flown to training but has now been allowed to move to Newcastle and last night started the game on the substitutes' bench, coming on in the 56th minute for his first appearance since Dec 22.

 

 

You are fucking joking here I assume? Or you are a very stupid bloke.

 

I remember very well when KK started under Ashley and Mort. We were all led to believe that this 'structure' was there to aid Keegan and more importantly take the club forward.

 

We were reassured on several occasions, by Ashley, Wise and Mort that 'Kevin' had final say on players.

 

Here's an obvious one:

 

"I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him. He'll say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will run past him and he'll say yes or no.

 

I've bolded the pertinent words, as this appears to have escaped your notice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You are fucking joking here I assume? Or you are a very stupid bloke.

 

I remember very well when KK started under Ashley and Mort. We were all led to believe that this 'structure' was there to aid Keegan and more importantly take the club forward.

 

We were reassured on several occasions, by Ashley, Wise and Mort that 'Kevin' had final say on players.

 

Here's an obvious one:

 

"I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him. He'll say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will run past him and he'll say yes or no.

 

I've bolded the pertinent words, as this appears to have escaped your notice.

 

That's uncalled for.  Mick is only fairly stupid, calling him very stupid is totally OTT.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You are f***ing joking here I assume? Or you are a very stupid bloke.

 

I remember very well when KK started under Ashley and Mort. We were all led to believe that this 'structure' was there to aid Keegan and more importantly take the club forward.

 

We were reassured on several occasions, by Ashley, Wise and Mort that 'Kevin' had final say on players.

 

Here's an obvious one:

 

"I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him. He'll say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will run past him and he'll say yes or no.

 

I've bolded the pertinent words, as this appears to have escaped your notice.

 

I know what has been said about who had final say on transfers, thanks.  It's good to see that you've kept an open mind as to what has gone on at the club.  :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You think it's debatable then? I'd say the responsibility for the mess lies with the bloke who bought the club lock, stock and barrel, appointed the people he decided were best suited to the job and got us where we are now. Which happens to be s***, and in serious danger of getting relegated. Or are you going to suggest that it's Keegan's fault?

 

 

 

You said you wanted to kill Wise, Keegan said he approved of the appointment.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2290428/Kevin-Keegan-relaxed-about-Dennis-Wise-role.html

 

Kevin Keegan said last night that Newcastle's appointment of Dennis Wise to the management team had his blessing - provided that Keegan is allowed to get on with his job of turning the club into a major force in the Premier League.

 

Wise, who confirmed his resignation as manager of Leeds United earlier in the day, was installed as Newcastle's executive director (football), effectively the club's unofficial director of football, and sat next to Chris Mort as his new team suffered a second 3-0 defeat at the Emirates Stadium in four days.

 

 

"I think it's positive," Keegan said, "as long as I can get on with my job and I get all the help I need as it has been put to me. You'd be a fool to say, 'I don't want that'.

 

"I talked with Dennis before the game and he wished us all the best. I knew he was one of two or three names put forward.

 

"There's been no deception, it's been very open. I'm fine. I pretty much know, from conversations we've had, what Dennis is going to do and the idea, in principle, is very good, to go and look for new players, to bring a lot of youngsters in.

 

"I'm all for the changes, it's not a problem, I approve of them. We had this discussion when I took the job.

 

"They want somebody on the board who understands football and Dennis Wise, whatever anybody wants to write about him, understands football. I know Dennis and I think it'll work very well. He'll report to me."

 

Wise, the former Chelsea captain, will be joined on Tyneside by Tony Jimenez as vice-president (player recruitment) and Jeff Vetere, who joins from Real Madrid to take up the position of technical co-ordinator.

 

"This is all part of the vision that recently helped us to secure Kevin Keegan's return to the club as manager," Mort added.

 

The arrival of Wise will have no impact on former Newcastle captain Alan Shearer's situation after he rejected the chance to become manager Kevin Keegan's No 2, though it seems certain he will have no formal involvement with his hometown club but will continue to concentrate on his media commitments.

 

 

Keegan was able to include Joey Barton for the first time after his bail conditions were changed. Barton, 25, was charged with assault and affray last month, and ordered by a High Court judge to live in Hampshire and return by 7.30pm each day.

 

He was being flown to training but has now been allowed to move to Newcastle and last night started the game on the substitutes' bench, coming on in the 56th minute for his first appearance since Dec 22.

 

 

You are f***ing joking here I assume? Or you are a very stupid bloke.

 

I remember very well when KK started under Ashley and Mort. We were all led to believe that this 'structure' was there to aid Keegan and more importantly take the club forward.

 

We were reassured on several occasions, by Ashley, Wise and Mort that 'Kevin' had final say on players.

 

Here's an obvious one:

 

"I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him. He'll say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will run past him and he'll say yes or no.

 

I've bolded the pertinent words, as this appears to have escaped your notice.

 

So theres no part of you which even entertains the thought that Keegan did have full say on transfers but was undermined when it became obvious that he was unable to name any suitable targets that fit into the clubs new transfer policy or was plain refusing the ones that Wise and co were suggesting?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Darth Toon

 

So theres no part of you which even entertains the thought that Keegan did have full say on transfers but was undermined when it became obvious that he was unable to name any suitable targets that fit into the clubs new transfer policy or was plain refusing the ones that Wise and co were suggesting?

 

As the club's new transfer policy appears to be not spending any fucking money it would hardly be surprising if he was unable to find suitable targets if you ask me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...