What's your best plausible scenario...?

[Mick]

 

 

I'm not sure if that's quite true, but we do have one or two very severe problems now - coincidentally (or not possibly) since this outfit arrived.

 

Make light of the threat of relegation if you like though.

 

Where did I make light of the threat of relegation?

[EthiGeordie]

After all this mess it is amazing ppl still want Ashley at the helm.

[Guest Johnny Clay]

 

 

I'm not sure if that's quite true, but we do have one or two very severe problems now - coincidentally (or not possibly) since this outfit arrived.

 

Make light of the threat of relegation if you like though.

 

Where did I make light of the threat of relegation?

 

Anyone who doesn't recognize the damage Ashley is doing to this club makes light of it.

 

 

[Mick]

 

Anyone who doesn't recognize the damage Ashley is doing to this club makes light of it.

 

 

 

Who doesn't recognise the damage being done?  The only debate is about who is responsible.

[Guest Johnny Clay]

 

Anyone who doesn't recognize the damage Ashley is doing to this club makes light of it.

 

 

 

Who doesn't recognise the damage being done?  The only debate is about who is responsible.

 

You think it's debatable then? I'd say the responsibility for the mess lies with the bloke who bought the club lock, stock and barrel, appointed the people he decided were best suited to the job and got us where we are now. Which happens to be shit, and in serious danger of getting relegated. Or are you going to suggest that it's Keegan's fault?

 

 

[garth]

 

Anyone who doesn't recognize the damage Ashley is doing to this club makes light of it.

 

 

 

Who doesn't recognise the damage being done?  The only debate is about who is responsible.

 

You think it's debatable then? I'd say the responsibility for the mess lies with the bloke who bought the club lock, stock and barrel, appointed the people he decided were best suited to the job and got us where we are now. Which happens to be s***, and in serious danger of getting relegated. Or are you going to suggest that it's Keegan's fault?

 

 

 

 

Certainly just as much should be laid on Keegan as Ashley.

[Guest Johnny Clay]

 

Anyone who doesn't recognize the damage Ashley is doing to this club makes light of it.

 

 

 

Who doesn't recognise the damage being done?  The only debate is about who is responsible.

 

 

You think it's debatable then? I'd say the responsibility for the mess lies with the bloke who bought the club lock, stock and barrel, appointed the people he decided were best suited to the job and got us where we are now. Which happens to be s***, and in serious danger of getting relegated. Or are you going to suggest that it's Keegan's fault?

 

 

 

 

Certainly just as much should be laid on Keegan as Ashley.

 

Does Kevin Keegan own the club? Here's me thinking he's just someone who used to work here and left. Unless you're suggesting that Ashley is such a useless cunt that he allowed his business's fate to depend entirely on one person. And that person's departure is the reason we're in danger of being relegated. And that almost three months later he's been unable to find anyone capable of filling that role effectively (unless you count Joe Kinnear). Surely not - that would be incompetence. Or possibly indifference, depending on how you take Mr Ashley.

 

One thing can be said fairly conclusively though: we are shit, and our points-to-games ratio may well get us relegated if it continues.

[ChezGiven]

Unless you're suggesting that Ashley is such a useless cunt that he allowed his business's fate to depend entirely on one person.

 

Well it did ultimately. That was obvious, the whole shenanigan was about Keegan, his power and respect amongst the fans.

 

 

[Mick]

 

You think it's debatable then? I'd say the responsibility for the mess lies with the bloke who bought the club lock, stock and barrel, appointed the people he decided were best suited to the job and got us where we are now. Which happens to be s***, and in serious danger of getting relegated. Or are you going to suggest that it's Keegan's fault?

 

 

 

You said you wanted to kill Wise, Keegan said he approved of the appointment.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2290428/Kevin-Keegan-relaxed-about-Dennis-Wise-role.html

 

Kevin Keegan said last night that Newcastle's appointment of Dennis Wise to the management team had his blessing - provided that Keegan is allowed to get on with his job of turning the club into a major force in the Premier League.

 

Wise, who confirmed his resignation as manager of Leeds United earlier in the day, was installed as Newcastle's executive director (football), effectively the club's unofficial director of football, and sat next to Chris Mort as his new team suffered a second 3-0 defeat at the Emirates Stadium in four days.

 

 

"I think it's positive," Keegan said, "as long as I can get on with my job and I get all the help I need as it has been put to me. You'd be a fool to say, 'I don't want that'.

 

"I talked with Dennis before the game and he wished us all the best. I knew he was one of two or three names put forward.

 

"There's been no deception, it's been very open. I'm fine. I pretty much know, from conversations we've had, what Dennis is going to do and the idea, in principle, is very good, to go and look for new players, to bring a lot of youngsters in.

 

"I'm all for the changes, it's not a problem, I approve of them. We had this discussion when I took the job.

 

"They want somebody on the board who understands football and Dennis Wise, whatever anybody wants to write about him, understands football. I know Dennis and I think it'll work very well. He'll report to me."

 

Wise, the former Chelsea captain, will be joined on Tyneside by Tony Jimenez as vice-president (player recruitment) and Jeff Vetere, who joins from Real Madrid to take up the position of technical co-ordinator.

 

"This is all part of the vision that recently helped us to secure Kevin Keegan's return to the club as manager," Mort added.

 

The arrival of Wise will have no impact on former Newcastle captain Alan Shearer's situation after he rejected the chance to become manager Kevin Keegan's No 2, though it seems certain he will have no formal involvement with his hometown club but will continue to concentrate on his media commitments.

 

 

Keegan was able to include Joey Barton for the first time after his bail conditions were changed. Barton, 25, was charged with assault and affray last month, and ordered by a High Court judge to live in Hampshire and return by 7.30pm each day.

 

He was being flown to training but has now been allowed to move to Newcastle and last night started the game on the substitutes' bench, coming on in the 56th minute for his first appearance since Dec 22.

 

[Guest Chris P]

Well said . Keegans a C***

[johnnypd]

"as long as I can get on with my job"

 

"He'll report to me"

[Mick]

Well said . Keegans a C***

 

He's not but I doubt that he's lilly white in all of this.

[Mick]

"as long as I can get on with my job"

 

"He'll report to me"

 

What was his (Keegan) job?  Was it manager like over here or coach like on the continent?  If he came in as a continental type coach then he was allowed to do his job.

 

 

[johnnypd]

"as long as I can get on with my job"

 

"He'll report to me"

 

What was his (Keegan) job?  Was it manager like over here or coach like on the continent?  If he came in as a continental type coach then he was allowed to do his job.

 

 

 

"He'll report to me" should answer that.

[Mick]

From the same paper the day before the last one, this time about what Wise and Co would be doing.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2290357/Dennis-Wise-takes-role-as-Newcastle-director.html

 

Dennis Wise will begin a new chapter in his career as Newcastle's unofficial director of football at Arsenal tonight after his appointment was confirmed by the St James' Park club.

 

Newcastle chairman Chris Mort announced that Wise had agreed to join the Tyneside club in the role of executive director (football) and will be joined by Tony Jimenez as vice President (player recruitment) and Jeff Vetere, who joins from Real Madrid in the position of technical co-ordinator.

 

The club said that Wise, who quit his role as Leeds United manager today, would "assist the board on football-related matters", including the development of the club's Academy as well as player recruitment which is an area that Vetere and Jimenez will also have an influence.

 

Wise will report to the chairman at Newcastle who have moved to stress that recently-appointed manager Kevin Keegan will be responsible for all first-team affairs.

 

"This is all part of the vision that recently helped us to secure Kevin Keegan's return to the club as manager," Mort said. "Two of the conclusions of our strategic review, since acquiring the club, were that the club would benefit from having a football person involved at board level, which it has not had historically, and that further senior resources are needed for recruiting players of the highest quality from this country and further afield.

 

"Dennis would like to move away from day-to-day football management to a Board role and, with his considerable energy and intelligence, we believe he will do very well in this new position.

 

"With Kevin able to devote his efforts to developing and running the first team squad, Dennis, Tony and Jeff will each help us to secure success for Newcastle United Football Club at all levels and for the long-term. One or two further key appointments will follow in the months ahead."

 

Wise has already cleared his desk at Elland Road and he will be at the Emirates Stadium tonight to watch struggling Newcastle take on Arsenal in their Premier League. But Wise will stay in the background, allowing Kevin Keegan to get on with another tough assignment.

 

The 41-year-old Wise is likely to have overall charge of transfers, youth development and scouting, making him a director of football in all but name.

 

Wise, whose lawyer wife is expecting their third child, drove up from London yesterday with former Newcastle and Chelsea striker Joe Allon.

 

Allon, who has been a member of Wise's backroom staff at Leeds, also handed in his notice at Elland Road yesterday. Wise's appointment is unrelated to the situation of former England colleague Alan Shearer who has been told by Keegan to carry on with his media work and turn up at the training ground whenever it suits him.

 

 

[Mick]

 

"He'll report to me" should answer that.

 

Of course, all Directors report to managers, or did I get that the wrong way around?

[Guest Darth Toon]

It saddens me that some people have a "best plausible scenario" that includes Ashley and Wise staying on and KK being discredited.

 

Quite unbelievable really.

[johnnypd]

 

"He'll report to me" should answer that.

 

Of course, all Directors report to managers, or did I get that the wrong way around?

 

someone in Wise's role who is a glorified head scout with some additional authority at youth level should report to the manager. if not you have a case where a scout has more authority on some first team matters than the manager which is madness and as already said, is the kind of thing that has caused plenty of managers to leave their jobs, not just keegan.

 

and that's the elephant in the room for those who attack keegan - if it was a problem caused by his personality, how come the situation has replicated itself many times over with different managers with different personalities to keegan? Yes, knowing his character of being passionate, wanting control and often being confrontational to effect change, it made it more likely that such a situation would flare up if the backroom staff ever tried to interfere - which makes it all the more damning that Ashley and his cohorts should attempt to do so. and that's the root cause of our problems. it's even worse when you think that it was well within ashley's powers to come in and sort the situation out by deciding to back his manager  - either earlier in the window with cash and the authority to use it, or later once the situation flared up. that he chose his value-for-money system/reluctance to spend as more important than a/ the manager and - amazingly - b/owning the club says a lot about the man.

 

it's disappointing that we all criticised Shepherd for interfering in these matters when Robson and Souness were here, yet some are reluctant to do the same when it's Ashley and his cohorts doing the same. though it has came about through different means, the end result is the same - a poor squad without a good manager directing them.

[relámpago blanco]

It saddens me that some people have a "best plausible scenario" that includes Ashley and Wise staying on and KK being discredited.

 

Quite unbelievable really.

Tbh I think people just want something to happen that stablises the club, whther that be Ashley confirming he isn't selling or someone else coming in.  We need a permanent manager by January or we are screwed.  I honestly don't care how it comes about at present as long as there's some stability and the manager is happy, whether that be working with a DOF or not provided he's happy with it it doesn't matter.

[cp40]

It saddens me that some people have a "best plausible scenario" that includes Ashley and Wise staying on and KK being discredited.

 

Quite unbelievable really.

 

 

After, all Kevin did for us,

 

He promoted us twice,

 

Ashley is more likely going to relegate us,

 

Cant see how people can confuse these two scenarios.

[Cronky]

 

"He'll report to me" should answer that.

 

Of course, all Directors report to managers, or did I get that the wrong way around?

 

someone in Wise's role who is a glorified head scout with some additional authority at youth level should report to the manager. if not you have a case where a scout has more authority on some first team matters than the manager which is madness and as already said, is the kind of thing that has caused plenty of managers to leave their jobs, not just keegan.

 

and that's the elephant in the room for those who attack keegan - if it was a problem caused by his personality, how come the situation has replicated itself many times over with different managers with different personalities to keegan? Yes, knowing his character of being passionate, wanting control and often being confrontational to effect change, it made it more likely that such a situation would flare up if the backroom staff ever tried to interfere - which makes it all the more damning that Ashley and his cohorts should attempt to do so. and that's the root cause of our problems. it's even worse when you think that it was well within ashley's powers to come in and sort the situation out by deciding to back his manager  - either earlier in the window with cash and the authority to use it, or later once the situation flared up. that he chose his value-for-money system/reluctance to spend as more important than a/ the manager and - amazingly - b/owning the club says a lot about the man.

 

it's disappointing that we all criticised Shepherd for interfering in these matters when Robson and Souness were here, yet some are reluctant to do the same when it's Ashley and his cohorts doing the same. though it has came about through different means, the end result is the same - a poor squad without a good manager directing them.

 

The DOF system clearly has its drawbacks, because it demands a high level of mutual trust and respect between the Manager and the DOF, and they need to have the same overall objectives. Reporting to a Board of non-experts has its problems as well, although at least it's clear who is at fault when footballing decisions go wrong.

 

My beef with Keegan is that I feel he knew what he was getting into, but then tried to change things around through non-cooperation with the system. He should either have quit at an appropriate time or knuckled down. Instead we had a damaging, drawn out public row from which nobody has benefited.

[relámpago blanco]

 

"He'll report to me" should answer that.

 

Of course, all Directors report to managers, or did I get that the wrong way around?

 

someone in Wise's role who is a glorified head scout with some additional authority at youth level should report to the manager. if not you have a case where a scout has more authority on some first team matters than the manager which is madness and as already said, is the kind of thing that has caused plenty of managers to leave their jobs, not just keegan.

 

and that's the elephant in the room for those who attack keegan - if it was a problem caused by his personality, how come the situation has replicated itself many times over with different managers with different personalities to keegan? Yes, knowing his character of being passionate, wanting control and often being confrontational to effect change, it made it more likely that such a situation would flare up if the backroom staff ever tried to interfere - which makes it all the more damning that Ashley and his cohorts should attempt to do so. and that's the root cause of our problems. it's even worse when you think that it was well within ashley's powers to come in and sort the situation out by deciding to back his manager  - either earlier in the window with cash and the authority to use it, or later once the situation flared up. that he chose his value-for-money system/reluctance to spend as more important than a/ the manager and - amazingly - b/owning the club says a lot about the man.

 

it's disappointing that we all criticised Shepherd for interfering in these matters when Robson and Souness were here, yet some are reluctant to do the same when it's Ashley and his cohorts doing the same. though it has came about through different means, the end result is the same - a poor squad without a good manager directing them.

 

The DOF system clearly has its drawbacks, because it demands a high level of mutual trust and respect between the Manager and the DOF, and they need to have the same overall objectives. Reporting to a Board of non-experts has its problems as well, although at least it's clear who is at fault when footballing decisions go wrong.

<b>

My beef with Keegan is that I feel he knew what he was getting into, but then tried to change things around through non-cooperation with the system. He should either have quit at an appropriate time or knuckled down. Instead we had a damaging, drawn out public row from which nobody has benefited.</b>

I also share this line of thinking but not many do,  I believe he should have stayed for the good of the club even if he wasn't happy, he knew what would happen if he walked and thats why he did it, out of spite to Ashley, Wise et al.  He knew he had more power than Ashley.  I think we put too much onto our heroes and it effects the club adversly sometimes.  It's not right that one player being dropped can get a manager sacked or that a manager leaving can mean the club has to be sold.

 

I'm sure Keegan knew the set-up when he joined as he stated so and if not he's basically been lying to us and should have left the second Wise came through the door.

[nobby_solano]

so he could have been called a bottler after a couple of weeks? 

[johnnypd]

 

"He'll report to me" should answer that.

 

Of course, all Directors report to managers, or did I get that the wrong way around?

 

someone in Wise's role who is a glorified head scout with some additional authority at youth level should report to the manager. if not you have a case where a scout has more authority on some first team matters than the manager which is madness and as already said, is the kind of thing that has caused plenty of managers to leave their jobs, not just keegan.

 

and that's the elephant in the room for those who attack keegan - if it was a problem caused by his personality, how come the situation has replicated itself many times over with different managers with different personalities to keegan? Yes, knowing his character of being passionate, wanting control and often being confrontational to effect change, it made it more likely that such a situation would flare up if the backroom staff ever tried to interfere - which makes it all the more damning that Ashley and his cohorts should attempt to do so. and that's the root cause of our problems. it's even worse when you think that it was well within ashley's powers to come in and sort the situation out by deciding to back his manager  - either earlier in the window with cash and the authority to use it, or later once the situation flared up. that he chose his value-for-money system/reluctance to spend as more important than a/ the manager and - amazingly - b/owning the club says a lot about the man.

 

it's disappointing that we all criticised Shepherd for interfering in these matters when Robson and Souness were here, yet some are reluctant to do the same when it's Ashley and his cohorts doing the same. though it has came about through different means, the end result is the same - a poor squad without a good manager directing them.

 

The DOF system clearly has its drawbacks, because it demands a high level of mutual trust and respect between the Manager and the DOF, and they need to have the same overall objectives. Reporting to a Board of non-experts has its problems as well, although at least it's clear who is at fault when footballing decisions go wrong.

 

My beef with Keegan is that I feel he knew what he was getting into, but then tried to change things around through non-cooperation with the system. He should either have quit at an appropriate time or knuckled down. Instead we had a damaging, drawn out public row from which nobody has benefited.

 

i agree that he tried to change it from within - but then why shouldn't he?

 

he can't win by that measure - either he quits and is accused of not putting up a fight (as others have said) or he tries to change it and is accused to staying on too long (as those same people say). what he tried to do was change the system while he still had a chance to do so - in other words - while the window was still open. sadly things just got worse. when it shut, he left. exactly the same timing as curbishley - which makes total sense due to the issues at stake.

[relámpago blanco]

so he could have been called a bottler after a couple of weeks? 

No I'm saying he must have known about a DOF coming in.  If he didn't like it he shouldn't have come in.