Can we actually...er...defend then?

[Yorkie]

Decent test next week against the physical tactics of Stoke and the long throw ins from Delap

 

I think that is going to be a very hard game for Colo and Bassong, as the one question mark is in the air. Other than that they look a natural partnership, not forgetting the part played by Beye and Enrique of course.

 

True, will be interesting to see how they deal with it. Colo looks very competent in the air though to me. Did anyone else notice that headed clearance at about the 80 minute mark? Cross in from Downing i think, there wasn't much pace on it but Colo fucking pummelled it out towards the centre-circle, unreal header. But yeah, Stoke will represent a fair test for em.

 

Read on BBC today that Windass (whilst warming up) got booked for whispering stuff into Delap's ear before he took a throw.  

[Guest Stephen927]

Decent test next week against the physical tactics of Stoke and the long throw ins from Delap

 

I think that is going to be a very hard game for Colo and Bassong, as the one question mark is in the air. Other than that they look a natural partnership, not forgetting the part played by Beye and Enrique of course.

 

True, will be interesting to see how they deal with it. Colo looks very competent in the air though to me. Did anyone else notice that headed clearance at about the 80 minute mark? Cross in from Downing i think, there wasn't much pace on it but Colo f***ing pummelled it out towards the centre-circle, unreal header. But yeah, Stoke will represent a fair test for em.

 

Read on BBC today that Windass (whilst warming up) got booked for whispering stuff into Delap's ear before he took a throw.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised, have you seen the size of Colo's neck? 

[toontownman]

If we keep that backline, develop them, have Taylor for back-up, they'll go far.  We need two new back-up players for Beye and Enrique (specifically, a long-term replacement for Beye to nurture - not sure Edgar's good enough).  

 

Our front line is fine.  Owen, Martins, Viduka, Ameobi, Carroll, Smith, Xisco (don't write him off under Kinnear, look at Ameobi).

 

Our problem is simple.  Midfield.  

 

On the wings, we have Duff, N'Zogbia and Guttierrez.  That's good enough for me.  Butt and Guthrie, however, aren't.  Butt is barely back-up, and Guthrie definitely is back-up with a view to first team play in the future.  We need Barton to STAY FIT, if he can't, ship him off, and someone else to partner him; say, Denilson - a young, promising player.  We lack creativity to score goals - it's not that our strikers can't score them.  Give us Fabregas and Deco for a week, and watch the goals flow in.

 

We need a first team, and a backup team, and I suggest the following:

 

First Team:

 

Given

Beye, Bassong, Colocinni, Enrique

Gutierrez, NEW, Barton

           Owen

     Martins, Viduka

 

Second Team:

 

Krul

NEW, Taylor, NEW, NEW

NEW, Guthrie, Butt, N'Zogbia

      Ameobi, Smith

 

Subs:  Xisco, Carroll, Edgar, Cacapa (for emergencies when everyone else dies of H5N1)

 

Notice from this that our backline is strong, but we have NO REAL BACKUP.  Our mid-field needs that spark of quality to set off the attack.

 

Sort it out in January, Joe, prove your mettle.

 

Really we should be looking to sign players that are better than the ones we already have.

 

If its 3 new signings in January it should be a CB, LB and ACM  that said a RW wouldnt hurt at all.

 

Enrique needs someone to learn from he is happy here and ready to get his head down so go for it IMO.

 

We need to raise the standard of the squad rather than average it out.

[Willow]

I'll be so happy when Colo gets his first goal for us, one of my favourite players for us plus he deserves one. Has Beye scored for us yet? I can't recall....

[Guest Stephen927]

I'll be so happy when Colo gets his first goal for us, one of my favourite players for us plus he deserves one. Has Beye scored for us yet? I can't recall....

 

Scored against Birmingham City in the 2-1 victory. Header at the near post if I remember right.

[Yorkie]

I'll be so happy when Colo gets his first goal for us, one of my favourite players for us plus he deserves one. Has Beye scored for us yet? I can't recall....

 

Last minute at home to Brum last season.

 

And aye, can't wait to see Colo get a clean header at goal from a corner or something, he'll take the net off.

[ChrisMcQuillan]

We need to raise the standard of the squad rather than average it out.

 

I agree with you.  But at the moment, we need a deep squad.  We need to consolidate it so that if Barton hurts his knee, we can score for the next month, or if Beye twinges his groin, we can field a natural, competant right back. 

 

Only once this  has been fulfilled can we strive upwards.  We can't pretend we're top quality any longer.  We're going to have to rebuild, and we need to get our foundations laid first.

 

Additionally, to the comment about Smith being before Xisco, I still think Smith can be a good player.  I've seen him play for Newcastle before, and I think he brings more fight than Xisco.  Xisco's got a tap-in, good for him.  He hasn't proved himself, and was desperately poor when I watched him play at SJP.  Also, Smith was being played out of position most of the time by Allardyce, and then Keegan.

[Guest Darth Toon]

I'm absolutely loving Bassong - so cool under pressure, decent pace, good passing and seems to win all his individual duels with almost contemptuous ease.

 

To come in and play like this in the current circumstances is absolutely exceptional.

[ElDiablo]

We've been defending deep the last two games, and it's much easier to do that as the defence can see everything in front of them and they act more as a barrier than anything else. The real test comes next week against a weaker team when they have to push up and attempt to intercept rather than just block, head clear etc. Still not convinced, there's a reason why we look more vulnerable at home. However Bassong looks competent.

[Robster]

The thought that Kinnear could finally tighten us up at the back, bring in a decent midfielder (or 2) in January, then get a coach along side him to develop the attacking side of things

 

[Guest timmy boy]

I can't recall many individual performances post Woodgate as commanding as Bassong's today. Not only was he a beast in the air, he read the game very well and his body strength is excellent, him and Colo are building up a good understanding.Often if one missed a header or a challenge the other anticipated it and cleared it up.

[Guest timmy boy]

 

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

In the smog I thought it was N Zogbia. He knocked it round the defender and ran the other side, really deceptive pace.Another time he beat a couple and should have had Martins in but over hit his pass.

[Tooj]

I thought Coloccini was fantastic today.

[Rich]

Bassong was the pick of the bunch today, Coloccini was generally solid again but did have a couple of hair-raising moments.

 

Beye his usual fairly solid self (this season's Beye, not last's) and Enrique varied from the ridiculous to the sublime, as always.

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

Actually I thought Beye was Downings bitch today nearly all their attacks came down that side.

 

Most of Downing's crosses didn't come from the byline, though. There's not much you can do to defend early balls into the box.

 

I don't think Beye was particularly good, but he was solid enough when called upon. He's still yet to hit the heights of last season.

[Tooj]

Bassong was the pick of the bunch today, Coloccini was generally solid again but did have a couple of hair-raising moments.

 

Beye his usual fairly solid self (this season's Beye, not last's) and Enrique varied from the ridiculous to the sublime, as always.

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

Actually I thought Beye was Downings bitch today nearly all their attacks came down that side.

 

Most of Downing's crosses didn't come from the byline, though. There's not much you can do to defend early balls into the box.

 

I don't think Beye was particularly good, but he was solid enough when called upon. He's still yet to hit the heights of last season.

 

He hasn't been getting forward enough, neither full-backs have though. I think this might be a specific instruction from Kinnear. Enrique's passing has been woeful this season mind.

[Rich]

I thought Coloccini was fantastic today.

 

Got tied in knots by Alves at one point in a moment of horrific defending and has an annoying habit of turning his back on shots rather than manning up and charging them down (which is really what you want from a centre half), BUT he made numerous interceptions at vital times (some extremely difficult technique-wise) and was decent in the air for the most part (recall him losing out to Tuncay a couple of times.) He's doing really well considering the circumstances he's come into.

 

There was a great story about him in the Journal today, too, talking about his English lessons and how Jonas and Nacho are helping him along because both of them are good at it. He even followed Bassong's lead and said "why aye man"!

[Rich]

Bassong was the pick of the bunch today, Coloccini was generally solid again but did have a couple of hair-raising moments.

 

Beye his usual fairly solid self (this season's Beye, not last's) and Enrique varied from the ridiculous to the sublime, as always.

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

Actually I thought Beye was Downings bitch today nearly all their attacks came down that side.

 

Most of Downing's crosses didn't come from the byline, though. There's not much you can do to defend early balls into the box.

 

I don't think Beye was particularly good, but he was solid enough when called upon. He's still yet to hit the heights of last season.

 

He hasn't been getting forward enough, neither full-backs have though. I think this might be a specific instruction from Kinnear. Enrique's passing has been woeful this season mind.

 

You can understand that away from home but if they're still going to be reserved at St. James' (which they have been at times) then it's a real pisser.

 

Neither are bad going forwards at all (especially when compared to previous fullbacks we've had), but like you say for some reason don't get the chance or don't seem to want it, one of the two. Enrique in particular showed some real pace at times in the second half and really charged onwards, but he plays so negatively the rest of the time it absolutely kills me. So many times you want BOTH fullbacks to just start moving when they get the ball, instead of taking a touch and then stepping-back into a long ball. For Enrique in particular it seems like habit.

 

Habits can be broken though and the coaches need to get it out of his system. Fullbacks are of immense importance these days and we're in the position where we actually have a couple of decent-good ones for the first time in a good while, we need to start making the most of them.

[Tooj]

Bassong was the pick of the bunch today, Coloccini was generally solid again but did have a couple of hair-raising moments.

 

Beye his usual fairly solid self (this season's Beye, not last's) and Enrique varied from the ridiculous to the sublime, as always.

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

Actually I thought Beye was Downings bitch today nearly all their attacks came down that side.

 

Most of Downing's crosses didn't come from the byline, though. There's not much you can do to defend early balls into the box.

 

I don't think Beye was particularly good, but he was solid enough when called upon. He's still yet to hit the heights of last season.

 

He hasn't been getting forward enough, neither full-backs have though. I think this might be a specific instruction from Kinnear. Enrique's passing has been woeful this season mind.

 

You can understand that away from home but if they're still going to be reserved at St. James' (which they have been at times) then it's a real pisser.

 

Neither are bad going forwards at all (especially when compared to previous fullbacks we've had), but like you say for some reason don't get the chance or don't seem to want it, one of the two. Enrique in particular showed some real pace at times in the second half and really charged onwards, but he plays so negatively the rest of the time it absolutely kills me. So many times you want BOTH fullbacks to just start moving when they get the ball, instead of taking a touch and then stepping-back into a long ball.

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Bassong was the pick of the bunch today, Coloccini was generally solid again but did have a couple of hair-raising moments.

 

Beye his usual fairly solid self (this season's Beye, not last's) and Enrique varied from the ridiculous to the sublime, as always.

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

Actually I thought Beye was Downings bitch today nearly all their attacks came down that side.

 

Most of Downing's crosses didn't come from the byline, though. There's not much you can do to defend early balls into the box.

 

I don't think Beye was particularly good, but he was solid enough when called upon. He's still yet to hit the heights of last season.

 

He hasn't been getting forward enough, neither full-backs have though. I think this might be a specific instruction from Kinnear. Enrique's passing has been woeful this season mind.

 

You can understand that away from home but if they're still going to be reserved at St. James' (which they have been at times) then it's a real pisser.

 

Neither are bad going forwards at all (especially when compared to previous fullbacks we've had), but like you say for some reason don't get the chance or don't seem to want it, one of the two. Enrique in particular showed some real pace at times in the second half and really charged onwards, but he plays so negatively the rest of the time it absolutely kills me. So many times you want BOTH fullbacks to just start moving when they get the ball, instead of taking a touch and then stepping-back into a long ball. For Enrique in particular it seems like habit.

 

Habits can be broken though and the coaches need to get it out of his system. Fullbacks are of immense importance these days and we're in the position where we actually have a couple of decent-good ones for the first time in a good while, we need to start making the most of them.

 

I rarely disagree with anything you post Rich, but I honestly think Enrique is one of the worst full backs I've seen play for us in terms of getting forward.

[Rich]

That's some criticism when you consider some of the cretins we've fielded in those positions over the past few seasons:

 

Ramage, Huntington, Carr, Hughes, Griffin, Elliott, Edgar...

 

Solano I'd grant you without hesitation, N'Zogbia too, Bernard was fairly exciting, Babayaro was easily capable but never bothered to cross the halfway line either.

 

I genuinely think it's more a case of him being made to focus so much on the other aspect than it is him being a poor footballer/incapable of doing any attacking. Even just today he showed glimpses of his ability as far as pushing on goes. He just doesn't do it at all - let alone enough.

[fredbob]

Bassong was the pick of the bunch today, Coloccini was generally solid again but did have a couple of hair-raising moments.

 

Beye his usual fairly solid self (this season's Beye, not last's) and Enrique varied from the ridiculous to the sublime, as always.

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

Actually I thought Beye was Downings bitch today nearly all their attacks came down that side.

 

Most of Downing's crosses didn't come from the byline, though. There's not much you can do to defend early balls into the box.

 

I don't think Beye was particularly good, but he was solid enough when called upon. He's still yet to hit the heights of last season.

 

He hasn't been getting forward enough, neither full-backs have though. I think this might be a specific instruction from Kinnear. Enrique's passing has been woeful this season mind.

 

You can understand that away from home but if they're still going to be reserved at St. James' (which they have been at times) then it's a real pisser.

 

Neither are bad going forwards at all (especially when compared to previous fullbacks we've had), but like you say for some reason don't get the chance or don't seem to want it, one of the two. Enrique in particular showed some real pace at times in the second half and really charged onwards, but he plays so negatively the rest of the time it absolutely kills me. So many times you want BOTH fullbacks to just start moving when they get the ball, instead of taking a touch and then stepping-back into a long ball. For Enrique in particular it seems like habit.

 

Habits can be broken though and the coaches need to get it out of his system. Fullbacks are of immense importance these days and we're in the position where we actually have a couple of decent-good ones for the first time in a good while, we need to start making the most of them.

 

I rarely disagree with anything you post Rich, but I honestly think Enrique is one of the worst full backs I've seen play for us in terms of getting forward.

 

He's terrible going forward, his saving grace as a full back is that people rarely get by him, he's an excellent defender in my opinion, but going forward theres nothing there, the minute he gets past the halfway line he runs out of ideas, completely alien to him.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

That's some criticism when you consider some of the cretins we've fielded in those positions over the past few seasons:

 

Ramage, Huntington, Carr, Hughes, Griffin, Elliott, Edgar...

 

Solano I'd grant you without hesitation, N'Zogbia too, Bernard was fairly exciting, Babayaro was easily capable but never bothered to cross the halfway line either.

 

I genuinely think it's more a case of him being made to focus so much on the other aspect than it is him being a poor footballer/incapable of doing any attacking. Even just today he showed glimpses of his ability as far as pushing on goes. He just doesn't do it at all - let alone enough.

 

In terms of specialist fullbacks I'd say in terms of getting forward he's not as good as Carr, Hughes & probably on a par with Griffin.

 

Perhaps it is just the way he's being told to play, but if he reaches the half way line he just seems to get rid of it as soon as possible.

[Guest Jawesome]

Definitely need a new left back.  Someone who can take responsibility and not shit themselves when they've got the ball.  Riise would not be a bad choice in January on loan until the end of the season, then we can start looking for real.  How about that fella from Marseille?  Taiwo is it?

[Offshore]

Bassong was the pick of the bunch today, Coloccini was generally solid again but did have a couple of hair-raising moments.

 

Beye his usual fairly solid self (this season's Beye, not last's) and Enrique varied from the ridiculous to the sublime, as always.

 

Where did Jose get those injections of pace from in the second half? A couple of times he motored up that left-flank like nobody's business!

 

Actually I thought Beye was Downings bitch today nearly all their attacks came down that side.

 

Most of Downing's crosses didn't come from the byline, though. There's not much you can do to defend early balls into the box.

 

I don't think Beye was particularly good, but he was solid enough when called upon. He's still yet to hit the heights of last season.

 

He hasn't been getting forward enough, neither full-backs have though. I think this might be a specific instruction from Kinnear. Enrique's passing has been woeful this season mind.

 

You can understand that away from home but if they're still going to be reserved at St. James' (which they have been at times) then it's a real pisser.

 

Neither are bad going forwards at all (especially when compared to previous fullbacks we've had), but like you say for some reason don't get the chance or don't seem to want it, one of the two. Enrique in particular showed some real pace at times in the second half and really charged onwards, but he plays so negatively the rest of the time it absolutely kills me. So many times you want BOTH fullbacks to just start moving when they get the ball, instead of taking a touch and then stepping-back into a long ball. For Enrique in particular it seems like habit.

 

Habits can be broken though and the coaches need to get it out of his system. Fullbacks are of immense importance these days and we're in the position where we actually have a couple of decent-good ones for the first time in a good while, we need to start making the most of them.

 

I rarely disagree with anything you post Rich, but I honestly think Enrique is one of the worst full backs I've seen play for us in terms of getting forward.

 

One of the reasons we've had ropey defences in the past is the fact we've gone for fullbacks that are better suited to going forward than actually defending.

 

IIRC Enrique did ok last season overlapping etc, so can only presume its team orders to make defending the priority.

[Rich]

That's some criticism when you consider some of the cretins we've fielded in those positions over the past few seasons:

 

Ramage, Huntington, Carr, Hughes, Griffin, Elliott, Edgar...

 

Solano I'd grant you without hesitation, N'Zogbia too, Bernard was fairly exciting, Babayaro was easily capable but never bothered to cross the halfway line either.

 

I genuinely think it's more a case of him being made to focus so much on the other aspect than it is him being a poor footballer/incapable of doing any attacking. Even just today he showed glimpses of his ability as far as pushing on goes. He just doesn't do it at all - let alone enough.

 

In terms of specialist fullbacks I'd say in terms of getting forward he's not as good as Carr, Hughes & probably on a par with Griffin.

 

Perhaps it is just the way he's being told to play, but if he reaches the half way line he just seems to get rid of it as soon as possible.

 

It's an interesting one but I'd be amazed if it was ability-related for a young Spanish fullback like him. I don't think the way we play helps the fullbacks at all and I can't remember the fullbacks being an integral part of our attacking make-up since Robson had them rampaging forward.

 

To me he seems technically solid and he does have a canny turn of pace. Don't think he's got the best footballing brain though and his decision making seems poor. I don't disagree that he looks a bit "rabbit in headlights" when he gets into the other half.