Is subbing Martins causing these late reversals?

[M4]

So, are they?

 

Been off 10 minutes and we've still been all over them. No sign of their defence pushing up further, no sign of the ball keep coming back at us, no sign of us not being a threat. Difference is, the wingers are playing well, midfielders are keeping the ball better, and the defence has been solid.

 

We'll never know, but I feel it's very much moot today. Could have been very different had it still been 1-0. I'm hoping Martins came off because of the injury, not as part of Kinnear plan.

[thenige]

Eh? He won the game for us by still being on the pitch.

 

And when we went off, they weren't all over us, contrary to what people were saying last week.

 

Ah but we weren't playing three players out of position this week!

[Optimistic Nut]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

[Dave]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Against Stoke we'd scored the second in the 24th minute and Martins was subbed in the 74th minute, after we'd been taking incessant pressure for about 20mins.

 

Today he scored the second in the 77th minute, virtually condemning a shite Pompey side to defeat.

[Unbelievable]

So, are they?

 

Been off 10 minutes and we've still been all over them. No sign of their defence pushing up further, no sign of the ball keep coming back at us, no sign of us not being a threat. Difference is, the wingers are playing well, midfielders are keeping the ball better, and the defence has been solid.

 

It seems clueless was being too kind..

[johnnypd]

he came off at 2-1 vs stoke. subbing martins was more of a symptom and contributing factor than a cause in itself. had we taken martins off at 1-0 today with half an hour remaining, im not so sure wed have gone on to win. but the main reason is that JFK didnt revert to his typical tactic of 10 men behind the ball and trying to hold out for half an hour. instead we had martins as an outlet who did a lot of good running in the 10 mins before he scored and then zogbia and jonas kept up the pressure when martins went off and shola has more movement than viduka, which played a big part in our third.

[Optimistic Nut]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Against Stoke we'd scored the second in the 24th minute and Martins was subbed in the 74th minute, after we'd been taking incessant pressure for about 20mins.

 

Today he scored the second in the 77th minute, virtually condemning a s**** Pompey side to defeat.

 

So against Stoke, you're saying we were under pressure even before Martins went off. That didn't change when he went off.

 

Today against Pompey, we weren't under pressure before Martins went off, and that didn't change either.

[Optimistic Nut]

So, are they?

 

Been off 10 minutes and we've still been all over them. No sign of their defence pushing up further, no sign of the ball keep coming back at us, no sign of us not being a threat. Difference is, the wingers are playing well, midfielders are keeping the ball better, and the defence has been solid.

 

It seems clueless was being too kind..

 

Again, show me where I'm wrong there, instead of just saying "you're clueless". Of the criticisms of the substitution last week, today, when he came off...

 

Did their defence push further up the field?

 

Was the ball keep coming back at us?

 

Were we failing to hold the ball up in the final third?

 

Were the midfield keeping the ball better?

 

Were the defence dealing with them better?

[Unbelievable]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Against Stoke we'd scored the second in the 24th minute and Martins was subbed in the 74th minute, after we'd been taking incessant pressure for about 20mins.

 

Today he scored the second in the 77th minute, virtually condemning a s**** Pompey side to defeat.

 

By the time Martins was taken off (due to injury let's not forget) Pompey had completely given up on the match. They weren't even putting pressure on the ball anymore.. Anybody who can't see the difference between those two situations doesn't understand football if you ask me..

[Baggio]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Because when he went off today we were the team on top, against Stoke we were on the back foot so by replacing our only outlet up top that has pace meant Stoke could play a high line and man mark Viduka, which they did.

 

For the moaning you done about Martins not doing enough with it when the ball was played up to him he still kept the ball away from our goal for much longer than Viduka did, who was losing the ball pretty much straight away, the only problem today with the long ball up to Martins was that the rest of the team didn't get up to support him quick enough.

[Dave]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Against Stoke we'd scored the second in the 24th minute and Martins was subbed in the 74th minute, after we'd been taking incessant pressure for about 20mins.

 

Today he scored the second in the 77th minute, virtually condemning a s**** Pompey side to defeat.

 

So against Stoke, you're saying we were under pressure even before Martins went off. That didn't change when he went off.

 

Today against Pompey, we weren't under pressure before Martins went off, and that didn't change either.

 

Taking Martins off against Stoke made the situation even worse.

 

I can't believe you're even debating this.

[Unbelievable]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Against Stoke we'd scored the second in the 24th minute and Martins was subbed in the 74th minute, after we'd been taking incessant pressure for about 20mins.

 

Today he scored the second in the 77th minute, virtually condemning a s**** Pompey side to defeat.

 

So against Stoke, you're saying we were under pressure even before Martins went off. That didn't change when he went off.

 

Today against Pompey, we weren't under pressure before Martins went off, and that didn't change either.

 

Are you for real?! Is the danger of hitting a team on the break to finish the game off when you're under the cush a concept you have trouble understanding?

[Optimistic Nut]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Against Stoke we'd scored the second in the 24th minute and Martins was subbed in the 74th minute, after we'd been taking incessant pressure for about 20mins.

 

Today he scored the second in the 77th minute, virtually condemning a s**** Pompey side to defeat.

 

So against Stoke, you're saying we were under pressure even before Martins went off. That didn't change when he went off.

 

Today against Pompey, we weren't under pressure before Martins went off, and that didn't change either.

 

Are you for real?! Is the danger of hitting a team on the break to finish the game off when you're under the cush a concept you have trouble understanding?

 

My point is, that threat didn't change today even when he went off.

[Unbelievable]

Completely different situations though.

 

In what way, Stoke at home, he comes off 2-0 up, Pompey he comes off 2-0 up.

 

Against Stoke we'd scored the second in the 24th minute and Martins was subbed in the 74th minute, after we'd been taking incessant pressure for about 20mins.

 

Today he scored the second in the 77th minute, virtually condemning a s**** Pompey side to defeat.

 

So against Stoke, you're saying we were under pressure even before Martins went off. That didn't change when he went off.

 

Today against Pompey, we weren't under pressure before Martins went off, and that didn't change either.

 

Are you for real?! Is the danger of hitting a team on the break to finish the game off when you're under the cush a concept you have trouble understanding?

 

My point is, that threat didn't change today even when he went off.

 

The match was won today when he came off (due to injury and not tactics might I add), because Pompey had all but given up. Last week the match wasn't won by any means and taking him off was supposed to make us stronger at the back, but resulted in much more pressure on our defence because Stoke didn't have to worry about counter attacks anymore. It's really not that difficult ffs..

 

I would argue we could have easily lost points here had Kinnear subbed Martins when you suggested he should, just minutes before he secured the win. This match was a case in point against your logic, and you still feel justified in your argument?! Unbelievable..

[Taylor Swift]

He either did his abdominal or quadricep muscle but I'm hoping it's just minor and he'll be fine. We'll beat Spurs if he plays.

 

By the way, Martins has now got 6 goals in 12 matches. 1 in 2 ratio in the league. Keep up the good work, Oba.

[KaKa]

Still trying hard not to give Martins any credit, laughable.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

Still trying hard not to give Martins any credit, laughable.

 

 

 

I thought first hour he was brilliant, went off the boil, probably due to the injury, then scored.

 

Still think people make too big a deal out of him coming off though.

[Ronaldo]

Martins scores goals and creates, he's an absolute gem. Simple as that

[toptoon]

Martins scores goals and creates, he's an absolute gem. Simple as that

 

Agreed. He is one of our most important players for sure, arguably THE most important. He is a danger to any defense a real door opener, a raw talent. Takes the heat off Owen nicely too.

 

Hopefully Kinear has now realised not to sit back too much when going ahead. If we do get pushed back then we need at least to be able to hit them on the break and give them something to worry about. Martins being the best at this. Zoggy and Jonas would be handy too.

[Wullie]

Totally bizarre that you can claim today to be an example of your point Nut when in fact it was the complete backing up of everything we've been saying.

 

At 1-0, Pompey had us under the cosh a little bit, had a few canny chances and Martins was our only outlet again. All our players were pinging it to him again and again and while he was winning the ball, he wasn't making particularly good use of those situations but he was forcing Pompey to sit deeper and keeping two or three Pompey players back - especially Belhadj because of his pace, taking one of Pompey's attacking assets out of the game to boot. He was also actually getting possession which Viduka and Owen didn't do at all last week.

 

Then he gets the ball in the box, makes some space and slices it out for a throw in - you'd say that's why he's not doing his job up front as an outlet, I say that's exactly what he is doing because against Viduka, from a long ball Pompey get the ball back immediately and start another attack. Martins gave them possession in the form of a throw but enabled us to pack that area, won the ball back from the throw in and the man himself kills the game off.

 

Teams are absolutely terrified of him (especially today after he nearly uprooted the post) and psychologically, when you're holding onto a lead, that is a massive bonus.

[Optimistic Nut]

Totally bizarre that you can claim today to be an example of your point Nut when in fact it was the complete backing up of everything we've been saying.

 

At 1-0, Pompey had us under the cosh a little bit, had a few canny chances and Martins was our only outlet again. All our players were pinging it to him again and again and while he was winning the ball, he wasn't making particularly good use of those situations but he was forcing Pompey to sit deeper and keeping two or three Pompey players back - especially Belhadj because of his pace, taking one of Pompey's attacking assets out of the game to boot. He was also actually getting possession which Viduka and Owen didn't do at all last week.

 

Then he gets the ball in the box, makes some space and slices it out for a throw in - you'd say that's why he's not doing his job up front as an outlet, I say that's exactly what he is doing because against Viduka, from a long ball Pompey get the ball back immediately and start another attack. Martins gave them possession in the form of a throw but enabled us to pack that area, won the ball back from the throw in and the man himself kills the game off.

 

Teams are absolutely terrified of him (especially today after he nearly uprooted the post) and psychologically, when you're holding onto a lead, that is a massive bonus.

 

And my point is, what changed in the way we played when he went off? Why didn't Portsmouth think, "Right, Martins has gone, we can now push up further and press them more"?

[Wullie]

Totally bizarre that you can claim today to be an example of your point Nut when in fact it was the complete backing up of everything we've been saying.

 

At 1-0, Pompey had us under the cosh a little bit, had a few canny chances and Martins was our only outlet again. All our players were pinging it to him again and again and while he was winning the ball, he wasn't making particularly good use of those situations but he was forcing Pompey to sit deeper and keeping two or three Pompey players back - especially Belhadj because of his pace, taking one of Pompey's attacking assets out of the game to boot. He was also actually getting possession which Viduka and Owen didn't do at all last week.

 

Then he gets the ball in the box, makes some space and slices it out for a throw in - you'd say that's why he's not doing his job up front as an outlet, I say that's exactly what he is doing because against Viduka, from a long ball Pompey get the ball back immediately and start another attack. Martins gave them possession in the form of a throw but enabled us to pack that area, won the ball back from the throw in and the man himself kills the game off.

 

Teams are absolutely terrified of him (especially today after he nearly uprooted the post) and psychologically, when you're holding onto a lead, that is a massive bonus.

 

And my point is, what changed in the way we played when he went off? Why didn't Portsmouth think, "Right, Martins has gone, we can now push up further and press them more"?

 

Nowt because he'd already killed them off and our confidence was sky high as opposed to last week when we sat on our own six yard line shitting ourselves and knocking high balls straight back to Stoke. I think the difference between the situations is fairly obvious and I can't believe it's even open to debate.

[Mick]

 

And my point is, what changed in the way we played when he went off? Why didn't Portsmouth think, "Right, Martins has gone, we can now push up further and press them more"?

 

We kept going at them after Martins went off, we don't usually do that and it made a difference.

[Optimistic Nut]

 

And my point is, what changed in the way we played when he went off? Why didn't Portsmouth think, "Right, Martins has gone, we can now push up further and press them more"?

 

We kept going at them after Martins went off, we don't usually do that and it made a difference.

 

And that's the point I'm trying to make. It should be that way with or without Martins, today it was, last week it wasn't.

[Baggio]

 

And my point is, what changed in the way we played when he went off? Why didn't Portsmouth think, "Right, Martins has gone, we can now push up further and press them more"?

 

We kept going at them after Martins went off, we don't usually do that and it made a difference.

 

And that's the point I'm trying to make. It should be that way with or without Martins, today it was, last week it wasn't.

 

Surely the point was about taking him off when we're up against it and not just in general.