Why is losing like this acceptable?

[Guest The Libertine]

what?

Just thought you would be shocked at a Pro-Keegan fan being so open to Mike Ashley et al.

I wish all the KK talk and jibes would stop now to be honest. Its way past needing talking about. there is so much more for us to focus on. I am just so tired of it.

 

so why carry it on with that "but, but" dig?

 

what he said makes sense and i respect the fact that he's willing to give ashley/wise etc another chance after being so against them. if more people could do that then we'd be in a lot better state off the pitch.

[Robster]

so why carry it on with that "but, but" dig?

what he said makes sense and i respect the fact that he's willing to give ashley/wise etc another chance after being so against them. if more people could do that then we'd be in a lot better state off the pitch.

I tried not to but sometimes i just cant stop myself. For that I apologise.

I am trying desperately not to rise to every KK snipe as I know its just not worth it but sometimes i feel the need to defend him

But your right of course. Until there is more unity we are knackered. We wont ever please all of the people all of the time but we need to try and get a majority singing from the same hymn sheet.

Seems a distant hope at the moment sadly.

[sicsfingeredmong]

A work colleague of mine, and a bigger "Ashley Brown Noser" than some found on the internet commented the following or thereabouts.

 

"Today's result was a necessary lesson for the club. It's part of the club's learning curve as we/the club seek to slowly & gradually build under under Ashley's guidance at the top level. It's about gradually improvement"

 

Take away any reference to us as a club, you'd be mistaken if the same bloke was talking about a newly promoted club.

 

I cut my lunchbreak short, before my anger took hold of me............ in case i punched the Brown Noser in question, costing me a well paying job in the process.

[mrmojorisin75]

What hits harder is that this kind of performance is just so opposite to what we have had recently. Some excellent clean sheets, especially away from home.

I know we had some injury problems but the change in perfomance and determination throughout seems quite frightening.

 

Its staggering really, how N'Zogbia can play the way he did against Spurs for example and then play the way he did against Liverpool. The same applies to all of them. Watching us this season has been like watching a different team almost in every single game we've played. The only consistency has been in Shay Given's goalkeeping. No team playing like that can ever hope to achieve anything regardless of how good the players may be, were or can be. New players will not fix our problems or make them go away either, although they may paper over a few cracks. Lets just hope that will be enough.

 

is it?  i find a very simple explanation for his performance & that of the current darling spiderman - they were the only 2 players on the pitch for us who looked to receive the ball and do something with it, when they took it they were either faced with 2 players to beat and a totally static CM & FW line, or they were hit split seconds after taking the ball

 

liverpool played their 2 DM's and 4 at the back and their FB's rarely went forward, they didn't need to

 

contrast that with spurs who left wide gaping holes for zog to exploit - zog and jonas are good but they're simply not magicians and there's no way they were getting through that barrier without some running from midfield, which as we know was not forthcoming

[sicsfingeredmong]

Nufc is what it is it matters not whether it's a big club or whatever it's always going to be the "biggest" and most important club to its fans, that goes without saying and makes this debate pointless. Players are only interested in the potential for success and how much money they're going to get, when they talk about a club being a big club they're either using it as a metaphor for that or they're paying lip-service to the fans. Either way this debate is still pointless.

 

Again I agree, my whole point all along is that a club of NUFC's stature or size whatever you want to call it should not be getting beat at home by such margins regardless of the opposition and need to somehow install a set of standards or criteria on that basis whereby finishing outside of the top 6 and getting stuffed simply isn't acceptable on any level and to run the club in that way. It was others who challenged my statement that NUFC is indeed a big club or a club of stature which resulted in this needless "big club" debate unfolding.

 

To my mind there is no argument to be made against the stature of the club because its pretty damn obvious NUFC is a big club or a club of stature, along with several other similar sized clubs I might add like Spurs, Villa, Everton, Chelsea and maybe Leeds.

 

Of course the team itself isn't a top 6 side, far from it, but the club is although you'd never realise that the way it has been ran these past few years, the players that have been signed to play for it (not all but a good number), some of the managers that have found their way here and the way a good number of fans not only accept this but also tolerate it.

 

Its a catch 22 like, I know. While I was extremely proud of the fans' reaction to every one of Liverpool's goals, I can't help feeling somewhere down the line we need to say enough is enough and demand better of our club and those connected with it, to hold those responsible to higher standards rather than simply accepting and tolerating things.

 

It has to come from within the club I know and from the top. That was part of the appeal with KK and a big part of why fans held him in such high esteem because under him (first time around anyway) he created a set of standards for the club and fans in which to live by if you like, i.e. to aspire to be the best we can, to challenge at the very top, to not accept mediocrity - to go for it. And he showed the way, what this club can achieve and be.

 

There is no reason why NUFC cannot get right back into the upper tier of English football but for a lack of standards which as we all know does not run through the club at any level sadly.

 

It has always been an issue with me - standards.

 

Every season NUFC as a club should lay its cards on the table.

 

We are a top 6 club so that is where we will aspire to be by the end of the season, anything less is unacceptable. This should be hammered into managers and players alike rather than going into a season merely hoping for the best or just getting on with things and accepting what comes our way like some added bonus.

 

Players like Nicky Butt and Shola Ameobi should not be acceptable representatives of our team, in short deemed good enough because they most certainly aren't.

 

There should be inquiries into such defeats as the 5-1 hammering at home to Liverpool.

 

It isn't a case of who do we think we are, it's about standards and pride which we need to start setting and living by.

 

Liverpool fans booed their team off a few weeks back at home despite going top of the league. As a Newcastle fan where I'm conditioned to accept and tolerate mediocrity and reminded by my own fans that NUFC are not a big club I considered their reaction as extreme ungratefulness. But that's why LFC are the club they are, they demand more, not just their fans, but as a club. Its ingrained in every level of that club to strive towards success and to be the best they can and to say f*** off to anything that falls below that. It started with Shankly for them, someone as an individual who had high standards and immense pride. For us KK(a proudct of the Shankly Liverpool) set the ball rolling back in the 90s but down the line we've badly lost our way.

 

One of the reasons why I love KK is because when we had just achieved promotion he was asked where he saw our place in the top-flight the following season and he looked around those clubs we'd face and asked himself what they had that we didn't and his answer was better players maybe, more experience, but other than that f*** all else and in some cases a whole lot less than what we had so he said our place in the top flight is right at the top end of the table and that's where he would be looking towards rather than 17th or mid-table. And he took us there.

 

Today our club requires someone with high standards and immense pride to install a similar mentality at SJP that we as fans can feed off.

 

Looking at Ashley, Kinnear et al, I see no such person.

 

So.... if they can't install such high standards I'm going to install my own.

 

Are NUFC a top 6 club? Without a doubt. So from now on in I won't accept or tolerate anything less from my club. Is Shola good enough for us? Is he f*** so from now in I won't accept or tolerate such s**** wearing the colors of my team.

 

Will it make a blind bit of difference to our fortunes? Will it f*** but it will make me feel a little bit better at least.

 

I've had enough of pinning misguided hope on this manager, that manager, this campaign, that campaign, this player or that player and making endless excuses mostly to myself on their behalf when they repeatedly f*** up or make a mug of me like Mike Ashley did a fine job of doing over the summer and yes, KK, and Big Sam before him etc. etc.

 

Of all our players I only have respect for Shay Given, a player who has high standards and immense pride in his game and the club. The rest can f*** right off as far as I'm concerned, if they all left tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear for any of them.

 

From now on in if they want a chance with me they have to earn it and show themselves worthy of playing for my club if not always in terms of skill and technique then in heart, commitment, desire, pride, and high standards which all cost nothing.

 

Before all that though, as its Christmas and a new year is coming up I'll let them all off for their past "crimes" so I'm giving them all a fresh clean start, Kinnear and Ashley included, and even Dennis Wise.

 

Err http://www.toontastic.net/board/style_emoticons/default/nufc.gif

 

It's why i've never treated a full-time booing send-off, or a mass walk-out - as the worst of demonstrations - as taboo.

 

On a similar note I was livid a few years back when our Souness-led team was applauded off the pitch at Cardiff, after being hammered/embarassed by United.

[Guest black n white]

for anybody that saw this game, is it your opinion that the tactics should have been changed

within 15-20mins from the start 

[TRon]

for anybody that saw this game, is it your opinion that the tactics should have been changed

within 15-20mins from the start 

 

Tactics won't make any difference in matches like these, we need a central midfielder who can replace Butt and hope to keep up with the opposition. Danny Guthrie shouldn't be an automatic choice either, if he puts in abysmal performances like on Sunday we should have other options so we can drop his lazy arse onto the bench.

[The Prophet]

for anybody that saw this game, is it your opinion that the tactics should have been changed

within 15-20mins from the start 

 

Indeed it is, the second paragraph from my post match rant:

 

As soon as Liverpool lined up with a five man midfield Joe should of adjusted accordingly. With their superior players matching up with them man for man would have been difficult enough but the extra man meant Gerrard was constantly free, which as you'd expect proved very costly indeed. In fairness we came out at half time a little better, but no where near good enough. I felt a little sorry for Joe, what do you say to that shower? However my sympathy is strained by the fact he did nothing to address the fact we were getting completely over ran in the middle of the park. His substitutions weren't too bad, but his tactis? Not good enough I'm afraid, he's doing nothing to change my mind that he's anything more than an average manager.

 

[The Prophet]

It's also worth mentioning in hindsight that we were that bloody awful it probably wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference.

[NE5]

There are some people in the Liverpool match thread saying we shouldn't be angry about it, but I can't understand why anyone thinks this shite is acceptable. I always thought we'd lose this match comfortably but the manner in which we've surrendered is just a fucking disgrace.

 

We're supposedly a big club. Does anyone think the fans of clubs like Liverpool would accept this rubbish?

 

Our squad is a joke, I hope Ashley has seen this tripe and realises that spending some money is the minimum requirement.

 

nailed in the first post

 

 

[TRon]

There are some people in the Liverpool match thread saying we shouldn't be angry about it, but I can't understand why anyone thinks this shite is acceptable. I always thought we'd lose this match comfortably but the manner in which we've surrendered is just a fucking disgrace.

 

We're supposedly a big club. Does anyone think the fans of clubs like Liverpool would accept this rubbish?

 

Our squad is a joke, I hope Ashley has seen this tripe and realises that spending some money is the minimum requirement.

 

I think we will be spending some money, the real question is how much is there to spend and in the current economic climate how much should we expect Ashley to spend?