Why is losing like this acceptable?

[Kitman]

It's not acceptable but we've got to move on from this.  We are still in a relegation dog fight and our only priority is to get enough points to keep ourselves in the PL.  Never mind this big club/small club shite, what does it matter if you get relegated?  Our fate will be decided by how we fare against our fellow relegation battlers, not against the top 6.  We need to bring in a few players to improve the team and fast, starting with a decent left back and someone in the middle who can both run and play football (unlike Butt).  I don't know where they're going to come from but it's time our soopa-doopa transfer system did its stuff and got in the players we need.  Ashley needs to stick his hand in his pocket and spend some money.  If there's an emergency kitty, now's the time.

 

Fuck Liverpool.  We're so not in their league it's embarrassing but we knew that already.  But we do need to guarantee we're better than the bottom 3 come the end of the season, we need to improve the squad as it's not apparent to me that we currently are.

[merlin]

There are some people in the Liverpool match thread saying we shouldn't be angry about it, but I can't understand why anyone thinks this s**** is acceptable. I always thought we'd lose this match comfortably but the manner in which we've surrendered is just a f***ing disgrace.

 

We're supposedly a big club. Does anyone think the fans of clubs like Liverpool would accept this rubbish?

 

Our squad is a joke, I hope Ashley has seen this tripe and realises that spending some money is the minimum requirement.

 

I agree totally Dave - there is NO WAY a club as supposedly 'big' as Newcastle United should be accepting about losing so heavily - even to Liverpool and esp on home turf.

 

Sadly, the result(and manner of it)indicates just how far the club has fallen and the fact that some supposed 'fans' seek to excuse it

illustrates how apathetic some fans have become - as you know, I spent a great deal of my own(unpaid) time during the takeover of the early 90s trying to get into power a regime that I hoped would put an end to all this apathy and shaming results, because make no mistake, this sort of result IS shaming for a club like Newcastle - it would be bad enough if the Stokes or Hulls of this world were losing 5-1 at home, never mind us....

 

As I have said previously, all the work put in by those of us who cared in the 80s/90s has been totally wasted, and at times like this, I wish I hadn't bothered ; the club is run and acts, like a Championship outfit and that is where it will end up at the end of this season unless some drastic action is taken - but honestly, if you were a decent player, would YOU want to join this shambolic and dispirited outfit UNLESS you were offered a King's ransom in wages ? Heaven knows, we've has plenty of THAT type over the years.

 

This is a total disgrace, and all involved, from Chairman down to Reserves, should be totally ashamed - the club is a laughing stock, and I am beginning to think that a spell in the Championship might be just what is needed to prick a few egos and bring people down to earth.

 

I have rarely been so disgusted with this Football Club - and I use the term 'club' loosely....

[thewellander]

I've watched Chelsea score 3 goals in 19 minutes against Barcelona, and comfortably win the match 4-2. Barcelona must be a disgrace.

 

In 2005 I watched Boro beat Manchester United 4-1. Manchester United must be such a sh*te team. What a laughing stock.

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

Basong, Beye, Barton, Martins, Viduka, Enrique (half the game) all out and we're playing the top team in the league a couple days after we played a game against a very physical Wigan side away from home. Time to move on, folks.

 

 

[Montey]

Name me one club in the EPL who would (not should) happily accept the trouncing we received?

 

Name me one club in the EPL who would (not should) happily accept the manner in which our team performed?

 

If you can't name any, but think -we- should just accept the result and the manner of the result because that's where we're at, then you obviously think NUFC is not worthy of being in the EPL and should be relegated.

[magpie418]

Switch the liverpool/wigan games around and i'm sure we would of had a canny weekend.

 

It's a funny old game, football.

 

 

[oldtype]

What exactly does "acceptable" mean anyway?

 

I mean, what are you going to do if you can't "accept" a result, cry harder?

[WhatTheFunk]

What exactly does "acceptable" mean anyway?

 

I mean, what are you going to do if you can't "accept" a result, cry harder?

 

excellent point! It's up to the management and players to learn from the defeat, pick themselves up and go out to perform in the next game

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Theres nothing more small time than this big club debate.

 

 

Agreed if the debate is arguing which club is bigger but it isn't, this debate is about whether NUFC are a big club or rather a club of stature. I doubt anyone without any bias would regard NUFC as anything other than a club or stature or a big club. Other than some of our own fans that is...

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Jesus f***ing Christ!!

 

If you have to argue your case for being a big club then the simple fact is:

 

You aren't!

 

Normally I'd agree but again this debate isn't about whether NUFC is a bigger club than X, Y and Z but about whether NUFC is a big club or not which some fans don't think it is, incredibly.

[indi]

Nufc is what it is it matters not whether it's a big club or whatever it's always going to be the "biggest" and most important club to its fans, that goes without saying and makes this debate pointless. Players are only interested in the potential for success and how much money they're going to get, when they talk about a club being a big club they're either using it as a metaphor for that or they're paying lip-service to the fans. Either way this debate is still pointless.

[BlueStar]

If you mean why weren't people furious about it or wailing from the rooftops, it's because it was pretty much expected.  You could see after the first 20 minutes that there was an absolute gulf in class and the players we had available just weren't good enough.  I don't really think it was for lack of trying, some of our players had a decent game, we were just outclassed.  Our best chance of getting a point would have come from playing like we did against Chelsea, getting 11 men behind the ball and defending for 90 minutes, but we can't really do that at home because the crowd would go mental and interpret it as not trying to get anything from the game, then at the end they'd be booing because we'd not even tried, rather than still singing at 5-1 down (thought the atmosphere was pretty great last night for a home tonking)

[Pilko]

I've watched Chelsea score 3 goals in 19 minutes against Barcelona, and comfortably win the match 4-2. Barcelona must be a disgrace.

 

In 2005 I watched Boro beat Manchester United 4-1. Manchester United must be such a sh*te team. What a laughing stock.

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

Basong, Beye, Barton, Martins, Viduka, Enrique (half the game) all out and we're playing the top team in the league a couple days after we played a game against a very physical Wigan side away from home. Time to move on, folks.

 

 

 

Excellent post, I totally agree. 

[fredbob]

Theres nothing more small time than this big club debate.

 

 

Agreed if the debate is arguing which club is bigger but it isn't, this debate is about whether NUFC are a big club or rather a club of stature. I doubt anyone without any bias would regard NUFC as anything other than a club or stature or a big club. Other than some of our own fans that is...

 

 

What now? So you're arguing whether NUFC are a big club? Isnt that what most people would call a "big club debate"?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Theres nothing more small time than this big club debate.

 

 

Agreed if the debate is arguing which club is bigger but it isn't, this debate is about whether NUFC are a big club or rather a club of stature. I doubt anyone without any bias would regard NUFC as anything other than a club or stature or a big club. Other than some of our own fans that is...

 

 

What now? So you're arguing whether NUFC are a big club? Isnt that what most people would call a "big club debate"?

 

I'm claiming NUFC are a big club or a club of stature not compared to other clubs, just in itself, is all.

[thomas]

We weren't good yesterday, that much is clear.  Regardless of the opposition we would have had a tough time.  Shay Given was just about the only one to come out with any kind of dignity and that's saying something when it's your goalkeeper and 5 got put past him.  Guthrie maybe earned a 5. 

 

But. 

 

We aren't THAT bad.  Liverpool can make good sides look average and they can make an average side playing badly look abysmal.  And I think that's what happened yesterday.

 

The result is acceptable because it's the natural outcome of those circumstances.  I accept that an understrength Newcastle side playing poorly will get the beating of their life from the likes of a Liverpool side even when it's missing Keane and Torres.  FFS Gerrard, Kuyt, Babel, Mascherano and Benyaoun are all pretty goddamn good. 

 

That's all.  I don't condone shit performances but I refuse to crucify our players for a bad day out that looks ten times worse because they were playing the league leaders in good form.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Nufc is what it is it matters not whether it's a big club or whatever it's always going to be the "biggest" and most important club to its fans, that goes without saying and makes this debate pointless. Players are only interested in the potential for success and how much money they're going to get, when they talk about a club being a big club they're either using it as a metaphor for that or they're paying lip-service to the fans. Either way this debate is still pointless.

 

Again I agree, my whole point all along is that a club of NUFC's stature or size whatever you want to call it should not be getting beat at home by such margins regardless of the opposition and need to somehow install a set of standards or criteria on that basis whereby finishing outside of the top 6 and getting stuffed simply isn't acceptable on any level and to run the club in that way. It was others who challenged my statement that NUFC is indeed a big club or a club of stature which resulted in this needless "big club" debate unfolding.

 

To my mind there is no argument to be made against the stature of the club because its pretty damn obvious NUFC is a big club or a club of stature, along with several other similar sized clubs I might add like Spurs, Villa, Everton, Chelsea and maybe Leeds.

 

Of course the team itself isn't a top 6 side, far from it, but the club is although you'd never realise that the way it has been ran these past few years, the players that have been signed to play for it (not all but a good number), some of the managers that have found their way here and the way a good number of fans not only accept this but also tolerate it.

 

Its a catch 22 like, I know. While I was extremely proud of the fans' reaction to every one of Liverpool's goals, I can't help feeling somewhere down the line we need to say enough is enough and demand better of our club and those connected with it, to hold those responsible to higher standards rather than simply accepting and tolerating things.

 

It has to come from within the club I know and from the top. That was part of the appeal with KK and a big part of why fans held him in such high esteem because under him (first time around anyway) he created a set of standards for the club and fans in which to live by if you like, i.e. to aspire to be the best we can, to challenge at the very top, to not accept mediocrity - to go for it. And he showed the way, what this club can achieve and be.

 

There is no reason why NUFC cannot get right back into the upper tier of English football but for a lack of standards which as we all know does not run through the club at any level sadly.

 

It has always been an issue with me - standards.

 

Every season NUFC as a club should lay its cards on the table.

 

We are a top 6 club so that is where we will aspire to be by the end of the season, anything less is unacceptable. This should be hammered into managers and players alike rather than going into a season merely hoping for the best or just getting on with things and accepting what comes our way like some added bonus.

 

Players like Nicky Butt and Shola Ameobi should not be acceptable representatives of our team, in short deemed good enough because they most certainly aren't.

 

There should be inquiries into such defeats as the 5-1 hammering at home to Liverpool.

 

It isn't a case of who do we think we are, it's about standards and pride which we need to start setting and living by.

 

Liverpool fans booed their team off a few weeks back at home despite going top of the league. As a Newcastle fan where I'm conditioned to accept and tolerate mediocrity and reminded by my own fans that NUFC are not a big club I considered their reaction as extreme ungratefulness. But that's why LFC are the club they are, they demand more, not just their fans, but as a club. Its ingrained in every level of that club to strive towards success and to be the best they can and to say f*** off to anything that falls below that. It started with Shankly for them, someone as an individual who had high standards and immense pride. For us KK(a proudct of the Shankly Liverpool) set the ball rolling back in the 90s but down the line we've badly lost our way.

 

One of the reasons why I love KK is because when we had just achieved promotion he was asked where he saw our place in the top-flight the following season and he looked around those clubs we'd face and asked himself what they had that we didn't and his answer was better players maybe, more experience, but other than that f*** all else and in some cases a whole lot less than what we had so he said our place in the top flight is right at the top end of the table and that's where he would be looking towards rather than 17th or mid-table. And he took us there.

 

Today our club requires someone with high standards and immense pride to install a similar mentality at SJP that we as fans can feed off.

 

Looking at Ashley, Kinnear et al, I see no such person.

 

So.... if they can't install such high standards I'm going to install my own.

 

Are NUFC a top 6 club? Without a doubt. So from now on in I won't accept or tolerate anything less from my club. Is Shola good enough for us? Is he f*** so from now in I won't accept or tolerate such s**** wearing the colors of my team.

 

Will it make a blind bit of difference to our fortunes? Will it f*** but it will make me feel a little bit better at least.

 

I've had enough of pinning misguided hope on this manager, that manager, this campaign, that campaign, this player or that player and making endless excuses mostly to myself on their behalf when they repeatedly f*** up or make a mug of me like Mike Ashley did a fine job of doing over the summer and yes, KK, and Big Sam before him etc. etc.

 

Of all our players I only have respect for Shay Given, a player who has high standards and immense pride in his game and the club. The rest can f*** right off as far as I'm concerned, if they all left tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear for any of them.

 

From now on in if they want a chance with me they have to earn it and show themselves worthy of playing for my club if not always in terms of skill and technique then in heart, commitment, desire, pride, and high standards which all cost nothing.

 

Before all that though, as its Christmas and a new year is coming up I'll let them all off for their past "crimes" so I'm giving them all a fresh clean start, Kinnear and Ashley included, and even Dennis Wise.

 

Err http://www.toontastic.net/board/style_emoticons/default/nufc.gif

[Guest The Libertine]

Before all that though, as its Christmas and a new year is coming up I'll let them all off for their past "crimes" so I'm giving them all a fresh clean start, Kinnear and Ashley included, and even Dennis Wise.

 

am i reading that right?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Before all that though, as its Christmas and a new year is coming up I'll let them all off for their past "crimes" so I'm giving them all a fresh clean start, Kinnear and Ashley included, and even Dennis Wise.

 

am i reading that right?

 

Yes, I've waged my war and no-one wins in war really. Time for a truce I suppose. Now that doesn't mean I've changed my tune about them as individuals, their roles or anything else, just I'm willing to give them all a second chance to prove me wrong and to do what I want most - to turn around the club. I've put down a few conditions for them of course which they have to meet and while I hold no hope that they will, we'll see how things go.

[Robster]

Before all that though, as its Christmas and a new year is coming up I'll let them all off for their past "crimes" so I'm giving them all a fresh clean start, Kinnear and Ashley included, and even Dennis Wise.

 

am i reading that right?

 

Yes, I've waged my war and no-one wins in war really. Time for a truce I suppose. Now that doesn't mean I've changed my tune about them as individuals, their roles or anything else, just I'm willing to give them all a second chance to prove me wrong and to do what I want most - to turn around the club. I've put down a few conditions for them of course which they have to meet and while I hold no hope that they will, we'll see how things go.

Somewhere The Libertine is saying "but, but,but,but but"...

[Montey]

I've watched Chelsea score 3 goals in 19 minutes against Barcelona, and comfortably win the match 4-2. Barcelona must be a disgrace.

 

In 2005 I watched Boro beat Manchester United 4-1. Manchester United must be such a sh*te team. What a laughing stock.

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

Basong, Beye, Barton, Martins, Viduka, Enrique (half the game) all out and we're playing the top team in the league a couple days after we played a game against a very physical Wigan side away from home. Time to move on, folks.

 

 

 

Excellent post, I totally agree. 

 

Its not an excellent post, it missed the point entirely.  Yes, good teams get done by large margins when they are having an off day or when the team that beats them has a miraculous day, shite happens.

 

But, when ManU lost badly to Boro, did ManU ever look like they stopped trying?  When Barcelona got beaten 4-2 by Chelsea, did Barcelona's players ever look like they didn't give a toss?

 

Yes, it sucks we got hammered, but what makes it unacceptable is the manner in which our team failed to show any passion, any desire, any intestinal fortitude in attempting to take back the game.  Our team came out on to the pitch looking resigned to being raped and quite willing to just let it happen (except Given).

 

The point is that to loose badly sucks, but it is part of footballing life.  To loose because you can't be bothered trying is inexcusable!

 

Anyone know how many thousands of pounds were paid in player wages during that game alone?  That squad got paid a lot of money to not give a shite.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I've watched Chelsea score 3 goals in 19 minutes against Barcelona, and comfortably win the match 4-2. Barcelona must be a disgrace.

 

In 2005 I watched Boro beat Manchester United 4-1. Manchester United must be such a sh*te team. What a laughing stock.

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

Basong, Beye, Barton, Martins, Viduka, Enrique (half the game) all out and we're playing the top team in the league a couple days after we played a game against a very physical Wigan side away from home. Time to move on, folks.

 

 

 

Excellent post, I totally agree. 

 

Its not an excellent post, it missed the point entirely.  Yes, good teams get done by large margins when they are having an off day or when the team that beats them has a miraculous day, s**** happens.

 

But, when ManU lost badly to Boro, did ManU ever look like they stopped trying?  When Barcelona got beaten 4-2 by Chelsea, did Barcelona's players ever look like they didn't give a toss?

 

Yes, it sucks we got hammered, but what makes it unacceptable is the manner in which our team failed to show any passion, any desire, any intestinal fortitude in attempting to take back the game.  Our team came out on to the pitch looking resigned to being raped and quite willing to just let it happen (except Given).

 

The point is that to loose badly sucks, but it is part of footballing life.  To loose because you can't be bothered trying is inexcusable!

 

Anyone know how many thousands of pounds were paid in player wages during that game alone?  That squad got paid a lot of money to not give a s****.

 

Exactly. I can accept a defeat whatever the margin, that's not what hurts. What does is a total lack of leadership, commitment, professionalism, pride and yes ability (because we do have ability) which we never saw from our team other than Shay Given. It is inexcusable really in whatever format it comes in, home or away. Be it a 1-0 loss or a heavy 5-1 defeat, or even a win.

 

And on top of that there was the performance, or rather the none existent performance. I've seen kids as young as 5 on muddy pitches string more passes together, play with more shape and discipline and generally perform to some kind of pattern.

 

Liverpool did nothing special to win the game, they didn't perform to any outstanding standard, they simply turned up and played at their own leisure. We were beaten before a ball was kicked and it was a simple case of how many Liverpool could rack up which had it not been for Shay Given, could have easily been 10 or more. Every single one of their players must have had over 30 touches of the ball or more, at times they had a whole side of the pitch or a half to themselves as we sat deep in our own half all 10 outfield players,  watching Liverpool move the ball about with ease due to the time and space afforded to them.

 

Hyypia the oldest player on the pitch covered more grass than any of our players and was playing so high up he was actually playing as a midfielder.

 

I wouldn't mind but these performances are nothing new if the actual scoreline is (under Kinnear anyway) and its alarming just how frequently we have played so badly not only as individuals but as a team to the point where we are constantly taking two steps back for every forward step we make.

[Robster]

What hits harder is that this kind of performance is just so opposite to what we have had recently. Some excellent clean sheets, especially away from home.

I know we had some injury problems but the change in perfomance and determination throughout seems quite frightening.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

What hits harder is that this kind of performance is just so opposite to what we have had recently. Some excellent clean sheets, especially away from home.

I know we had some injury problems but the change in perfomance and determination throughout seems quite frightening.

 

Its staggering really, how N'Zogbia can play the way he did against Spurs for example and then play the way he did against Liverpool. The same applies to all of them. Watching us this season has been like watching a different team almost in every single game we've played. The only consistency has been in Shay Given's goalkeeping. No team playing like that can ever hope to achieve anything regardless of how good the players may be, were or can be. New players will not fix our problems or make them go away either, although they may paper over a few cracks. Lets just hope that will be enough.

[Guest The Libertine]

Before all that though, as its Christmas and a new year is coming up I'll let them all off for their past "crimes" so I'm giving them all a fresh clean start, Kinnear and Ashley included, and even Dennis Wise.

 

am i reading that right?

 

Yes, I've waged my war and no-one wins in war really. Time for a truce I suppose. Now that doesn't mean I've changed my tune about them as individuals, their roles or anything else, just I'm willing to give them all a second chance to prove me wrong and to do what I want most - to turn around the club. I've put down a few conditions for them of course which they have to meet and while I hold no hope that they will, we'll see how things go.

Somewhere The Libertine is saying "but, but,but,but but"...

 

what?

[Robster]

what?

Just thought you would be shocked at a Pro-Keegan fan being so open to Mike Ashley et al.

I wish all the KK talk and jibes would stop now to be honest. Its way past needing talking about. there is so much more for us to focus on. I am just so tired of it.