Dr Venkman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Kinnear is a clueless lying wanker but as long as he's the manager he should be the one in overall charge of who is brought in and shifted out of the squad in my opinion. Because he's the one who has to pick them, motivate them and get them producing results on the pitch. He should also be the one who takes the stick and finds his job at risk if they are shit. This doesn't mean I don't want to see more players like Bassong brought in, of course. That is how things should work. Scouts find players, recommend them to manager. Manager decides whether he wants them or not. On that front Wise and team have done a decent job so far. Ideas are all well and good, I just want whoever the manager is to have the final, definitive say on who is bought and who is sold. Pretty simple really. speaking totally hypothetically, if we brought in a relatively unknown/young manager and he admitted that he didnt pick the transfer targets and just worked with what he was given, and we steadily improved, would that bother you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 We've conceded 32 so far, so that to me suggest our defence is still a major weakness. 5 less than a side who last season were playing in the Championship and who are bottom of the league. I'll stand by what I've said and now that we are picking the right players when fit we've got a better defence than we've had for years. That doesn't say much Mick given our defence has been shit for years and if people are going to come out with well the midfield is shit and the manager crap and this and that previous defences had to also work under the same constraints. For me the players are better but the defence is still pretty average. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Kinnear is a clueless lying wanker but as long as he's the manager he should be the one in overall charge of who is brought in and shifted out of the squad in my opinion. Because he's the one who has to pick them, motivate them and get them producing results on the pitch. He should also be the one who takes the stick and finds his job at risk if they are shit. This doesn't mean I don't want to see more players like Bassong brought in, of course. That is how things should work. Scouts find players, recommend them to manager. Manager decides whether he wants them or not. On that front Wise and team have done a decent job so far. Ideas are all well and good, I just want whoever the manager is to have the final, definitive say on who is bought and who is sold. Pretty simple really. speaking totally hypothetically, if we brought in a relatively unknown/young manager and he admitted that he didnt pick the transfer targets and just worked with what he was given, and we steadily improved, would that bother you? Yes, it would bother me - primarily because I would be firmly expecting it to go wrong. If we steadily improved then of course I could be won over, but until tangible results were present I would remain very cynical about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offshore Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 The saddest part of all this of course without wanting to open up old wounds is that we are requiring exactly what we required in the summer still, but without a manager who was not only good enough but also trusted to identify talent and address problem areas. And for some totally bizarre reason that just never happened and now Kinnear in a roundabout way will pay for that in a damned if he does damned if he doesn't way, i.e. he can't be trusted to spend money but needs to be giving money. That is the position those who are meant to manage the club have put everyone in, and I include themselves and do you know what? I still can't accept what has happened because to me it is totally illogical and counter productive to appoint a good manager and not back him, as we are finding out today. I'll agree with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Libertine Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It says a lot that there will be mass celebrations if we buy a few players when in normal conditions it would be akin to applauding Owen for simply putting on his boots. aye, 30 mil + this window would be required to get back to Par,...theres no f***ing chance of that. do you trust kinnear to spend £30 million in this window? I trust him to spend it better than Wise & Co not necessarily on better players but in the right areas and really, if they don't trust him they should remove him now and appoint someone they do. If it is they who are signing the players then I don't trust them to strengthen the areas that need strengthened much less turn down bids for our better players which Kinnear will be fighting tooth and nail to keep. I'm the other way. I'd rather Wise & co made the major decisions with JFK getting a couple of stocking fillers to keep him happy. that would be a ridiculous way to run a football club, ..get yourself across to the does ashley want us relegated thread. do you trust kinnear to spend £30 million in this window? /NE5 i trust him more than Wise, but MY KASH LIE, will not be spending 30 mil, so dont upset yourself libby didnt actually answer the question, did you? imagine my surprise. try reading it again, a see a childish dig at wise and a lack of "yes" or "no". you clearly dont trust kinnear with it, so...to back or not to back? if we were spending 30 mil, yes i would back the manager, yes. amazingly, this isnt even a new low for you. i need to avoid you from now on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It says a lot that there will be mass celebrations if we buy a few players when in normal conditions it would be akin to applauding Owen for simply putting on his boots. aye, 30 mil + this window would be required to get back to Par,...theres no f***ing chance of that. do you trust kinnear to spend £30 million in this window? I trust him to spend it better than Wise & Co not necessarily on better players but in the right areas and really, if they don't trust him they should remove him now and appoint someone they do. If it is they who are signing the players then I don't trust them to strengthen the areas that need strengthened much less turn down bids for our better players which Kinnear will be fighting tooth and nail to keep. I'm the other way. I'd rather Wise & co made the major decisions with JFK getting a couple of stocking fillers to keep him happy. that would be a ridiculous way to run a football club, ..get yourself across to the does ashley want us relegated thread. do you trust kinnear to spend £30 million in this window? /NE5 i trust him more than Wise, but MY KASH LIE, will not be spending 30 mil, so dont upset yourself libby didnt actually answer the question, did you? imagine my surprise. try reading it again, a see a childish dig at wise and a lack of "yes" or "no". you clearly dont trust kinnear with it, so...to back or not to back? if we were spending 30 mil, yes i would back the manager, yes. amazingly, this isnt even a new low for you. i need to avoid you from now on. cant stand me now, cant stand me now,...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If we sign what we need without flogging our best players to finance it I'll give credit where it's due. No problem with that; after all it's what I hope happens. I'm sure if f*** all happens then the excuses will be flying in thick and fast. Spot on Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offshore Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Kinnear is a clueless lying w***** but as long as he's the manager he should be the one in overall charge of who is brought in and shifted out of the squad in my opinion. Because he's the one who has to pick them, motivate them and get them producing results on the pitch. He should also be the one who takes the stick and finds his job at risk if they are s***. This doesn't mean I don't want to see more players like Bassong brought in, of course. That is how things should work. Scouts find players, recommend them to manager. Manager decides whether he wants them or not. On that front Wise and team have done a decent job so far. Ideas are all well and good, I just want whoever the manager is to have the final, definitive say on who is bought and who is sold. Pretty simple really. Under normal circumstances i'd agree 100% with this. But unfortunately we've got a temp manager who's been out of the game for 4 years so i'd rather not have him doing all the buying and selling. He can and probably will say to the board who or what positons he feels needs strengthening but i'd much prefer they do the deals. He may be an absolute genius in identifying talent but until we've got cover sorted i'd rather not take that chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It says a lot that there will be mass celebrations if we buy a few players when in normal conditions it would be akin to applauding Owen for simply putting on his boots. aye, 30 mil + this window would be required to get back to Par,...theres no f***ing chance of that. do you trust kinnear to spend £30 million in this window? I trust him to spend it better than Wise & Co not necessarily on better players but in the right areas and really, if they don't trust him they should remove him now and appoint someone they do. If it is they who are signing the players then I don't trust them to strengthen the areas that need strengthened much less turn down bids for our better players which Kinnear will be fighting tooth and nail to keep. I'm the other way. I'd rather Wise & co made the major decisions with JFK getting a couple of stocking fillers to keep him happy. that would be a ridiculous way to run a football club, ..get yourself across to the does ashley want us relegated thread. do you trust kinnear to spend £30 million in this window? /NE5 i trust him more than Wise, but MY KASH LIE, will not be spending 30 mil, so dont upset yourself libby didnt actually answer the question, did you? imagine my surprise. try reading it again, a see a childish dig at wise and a lack of "yes" or "no". you clearly dont trust kinnear with it, so...to back or not to back? if we were spending 30 mil, yes i would back the manager, yes. amazingly, this isnt even a new low for you. i need to avoid you from now on. you still think its best to run a club, where the manager dosent buy the players,... insane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Libertine it isn't what we think that's important as to whether Kinnear should be trusted with money its what those in charge think and if they think no then they ought to get rid of him and then fire themselves for appointing someone who they were never going to trust with money in the first place anyway which is the bread and butter of all managers and how they get to build a side and how progression is usually achieved, via the transfer market. If Kinnear is to work with players, motivate them, select them, train them and build a team around them it is he who should be identifying them or if not having the final say on whether they come in or don't because its his neck on the line, its his job. If they can't trust him or any manager they should just dispense with the idea of a manager and manage the team themselves. I wouldn't imagine they'd want Kinnear deciding who sponsors the shirt, choosing the price of tickets or shirts or deciding their salaries for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Kinnear is a clueless lying w***** but as long as he's the manager he should be the one in overall charge of who is brought in and shifted out of the squad in my opinion. Because he's the one who has to pick them, motivate them and get them producing results on the pitch. He should also be the one who takes the stick and finds his job at risk if they are s***. This doesn't mean I don't want to see more players like Bassong brought in, of course. That is how things should work. Scouts find players, recommend them to manager. Manager decides whether he wants them or not. On that front Wise and team have done a decent job so far. Ideas are all well and good, I just want whoever the manager is to have the final, definitive say on who is bought and who is sold. Pretty simple really. Under normal circumstances i'd agree 100% with this. But unfortunately we've got a temp manager who's been out of the game for 4 years so i'd rather not have him doing all the buying and selling. He can and probably will say to the board who or what positons he feels needs strengthening but i'd much prefer they do the deals. He may be an absolute genius in identifying talent but until we've got cover sorted i'd rather not take that chance. I see your point but I really can see Kinnear staying on beyond his 'temporary' term. If he keeps us up I think he'll get a permanent contract. Ultimately I've no idea what Ashley's idea is regarding his manager, but if he plans on keeping Kinnear beyond the end of this season then he should be giving him control as I suggested IMO. Of course if he plans to fuck Kinnear off then he'll have to take a real gamble, be it on staying up with these players or giving Kinnear only minimal cash to make changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Libertine Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Libertine it isn't what we think that's important as to whether Kinnear should be trusted with money its what those in charge think and if they think no then they ought to get rid of him and then fire themselves for appointing someone who they were never going to trust with money in the first place anyway which is the bread and butter of all managers and how they get to build a side and how progression is usually achieved, via the transfer market. If Kinnear is to work with players, motivate them, select them, train them and build a team around them it is he who should be identifying them or if not having the final say on whether they come in or don't because its his neck on the line, its his job. If they can't trust him or any manager they should just dispense with the idea of a manager and manage the team themselves. I wouldn't imagine they'd want Kinnear deciding who sponsors the shirt, choosing the price of tickets or shirts or deciding their salaries for them. its all fine and well saying that but if the people on here are wanting big investment in this window, knowing full well that kinnear WILL be the manager, then they have to decide whether or not they would trust kinnear with the money. if ashley gives kinnear £20 million and he buys shit players then it will definitely be ashley getting the stick. as for the "shaping the team" part, would you give big money to a manager who's contract runs out in less than 6 months? that bold part is just bizarre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Kinnear is a clueless lying w***** but as long as he's the manager he should be the one in overall charge of who is brought in and shifted out of the squad in my opinion. Because he's the one who has to pick them, motivate them and get them producing results on the pitch. He should also be the one who takes the stick and finds his job at risk if they are s***. This doesn't mean I don't want to see more players like Bassong brought in, of course. That is how things should work. Scouts find players, recommend them to manager. Manager decides whether he wants them or not. On that front Wise and team have done a decent job so far. Ideas are all well and good, I just want whoever the manager is to have the final, definitive say on who is bought and who is sold. Pretty simple really. Under normal circumstances i'd agree 100% with this. But unfortunately we've got a temp manager who's been out of the game for 4 years so i'd rather not have him doing all the buying and selling. He can and probably will say to the board who or what positons he feels needs strengthening but i'd much prefer they do the deals. He may be an absolute genius in identifying talent but until we've got cover sorted i'd rather not take that chance. I see your point but I really can see Kinnear staying on beyond his 'temporary' term. If he keeps us up I think he'll get a permanent contract. Ultimately I've no idea what Ashley's idea is regarding his manager, but if he plans on keeping Kinnear beyond the end of this season then he should be giving him control as I suggested IMO. Of course if he plans to fuck Kinnear off then he'll have to take a real gamble, be it on staying up with these players or giving Kinnear only minimal cash to make changes. I've got a sneaking suspicion that another club will offer him a long(ish) deal in the summer and he'll take it. Coventry or Southampton or somewhere like that. I also think that if he did go then Wise might just move into the hotseat. Just a hunch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offshore Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Kinnear is a clueless lying w***** but as long as he's the manager he should be the one in overall charge of who is brought in and shifted out of the squad in my opinion. Because he's the one who has to pick them, motivate them and get them producing results on the pitch. He should also be the one who takes the stick and finds his job at risk if they are s***. This doesn't mean I don't want to see more players like Bassong brought in, of course. That is how things should work. Scouts find players, recommend them to manager. Manager decides whether he wants them or not. On that front Wise and team have done a decent job so far. Ideas are all well and good, I just want whoever the manager is to have the final, definitive say on who is bought and who is sold. Pretty simple really. Under normal circumstances i'd agree 100% with this. But unfortunately we've got a temp manager who's been out of the game for 4 years so i'd rather not have him doing all the buying and selling. He can and probably will say to the board who or what positons he feels needs strengthening but i'd much prefer they do the deals. He may be an absolute genius in identifying talent but until we've got cover sorted i'd rather not take that chance. I see your point but I really can see Kinnear staying on beyond his 'temporary' term. If he keeps us up I think he'll get a permanent contract. Ultimately I've no idea what Ashley's idea is regarding his manager, but if he plans on keeping Kinnear beyond the end of this season then he should be giving him control as I suggested IMO. Of course if he plans to f*** Kinnear off then he'll have to take a real gamble, be it on staying up with these players or giving Kinnear only minimal cash to make changes. Oh i'm gonna leave worrying about who our manager is or isn't for the summer. Its the here and now that concerns me, and i'm more concerned about JFK having 'sole' responsibility for deals than whether he'd feel hacked off if most of the decisions were done above him. On a side note - I always thought we'd stay up regardless, it'll be tight and nervous, but up we'll stay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Will come either way on Feb 2nd. What a dick you are. Truth hurts eh! If the squad isn't strengthened sufficiently by Feb 2nd then there can be no more excuses or defence of Ashley and co, from anyone. And it is sadly looking that way even early doors. Of course I'll hold my hands up should we strengthen the squad sufficiently enough and bring a cockney mafia in banner to the game. If its all the same, I'll wait to Sept the 1st. Ive said in the past that it'll be 2nd Feb, but i have always hated the Jan window, as has every single club in the league. Either way though, the target is a modest £11m to spend this Jan and we'll of spent the most ever in January transfer window, which will be another transfer record that the club have broken. However i wont be expecting any U turns from anyone if we do spend more than £11m...becasue I'm not a cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? backed or unbacked? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Excuses will be made regardless for Ashley like has happened so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? backed or unbacked? He left on September 2nd. You mean this window? Assume the same type of player as Jonas, Bassong, Collocini etc or not, as you wish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? backed or unbacked? to answer myself,... unbacked ,mid table, backed upper mid, fringe of europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Thank god Shearer will be in charge next season. Mike will spend 100m and we are laughing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? I think we could have finished top 8, although that would have been only if we had been extremely lucky with injuries. Although as the season started we had injuries to both full-backs despite Keegan saying we needed a left and a right-back. Now I know people will reply with well if you felt we could finish that high, then the recruitment team had done a good job and you felt we had an adequate enough squad. But this isn't the case at all, I put that down to Keegan's ability to get the most out of each and every player in the squad, much like he did towards the end of last season when things picked up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? Probably a couple of points better off - no more, TBH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? I think we could have finished top 8, although that would have been only if we had been extremely lucky with injuries. Although as the season started we had injuries to both full-backs despite Keegan saying we needed a left and a right-back. Now I know people will reply with well if you felt we could finish that high, then the recruitment team had done a good job and you felt we had an adequate enough squad. But this isn't the case at all, I put that down to Keegan's ability to get the most out of each and every player in the squad, much like he did towards the end of last season when things picked up. So your sayingwe have a squad capable of fininshing in the top 8, just not the manager? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Where would the team be in the league if Keegan had remained in charge? I think we could have finished top 8, although that would have been only if we had been extremely lucky with injuries. Although as the season started we had injuries to both full-backs despite Keegan saying we needed a left and a right-back. Now I know people will reply with well if you felt we could finish that high, then the recruitment team had done a good job and you felt we had an adequate enough squad. But this isn't the case at all, I put that down to Keegan's ability to get the most out of each and every player in the squad, much like he did towards the end of last season when things picked up. So your sayingwe have a squad capable of fininshing in the top 8, just not the manager? I would agree we have a top 8 TEAM but not a SQUAD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now