Mr Ashley and Ambition

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

You don't buy that seriously do you Mick, that all this is somehow fans' fault, intentionally or not?

 

 

[Pilko]

I really dont know where to start with this thread, its so one sided and lacking in reality that its laughable.

 

18 months or so and were rapidly going downhill, dont make me laugh, today were 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didnt make banners calling for his head, we didnt force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that hes probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Dont tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  Were roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldnt get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldnt hit a cows arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremis.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All Ive seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

That's a very good post.

[NE5]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

haha, you still insist that one person with less than 30% of shares makes all these appointments then tells everybody about it later. You still defend the worst owner we have had in decades - because he hasn't "embarrassed" you yet - never mind, the way soopa mike is going it won't be too long before you will be wanting someone to come along and save the club just like the Halls and Shepherd did in 1992.

 

I've long suspected you didn't really support the club back then and with every post you make expressing sentiments like this post you have just made, only re-inforces that impression.

 

There is nothing that can change history, look at the league positions, the state of the ground, the esteem the club was held in inside the game, the crowds, anything you can think of pre-1992. Its people like you who change history ie the absurd notion you tried to peddle once that the Halls and Shepherd were "just the same" as their predecessors and the equally absurd picture you tried to paint that the club wasn't any better than when making excuses for Waddle, Gazza and Beardsley all wanting to leave the club to further their careers, like Shay Given may do now.

 

Fact is, people like you wanted rid of fat fred for anyone because he "embarrassed" you, but you are now looking at a team on its way back to where the Halls and shepherd found it, and unless someone picks it up are going to be embarrassed a lot more than you were watching a team that qualified for europe regularly and was an established top division club.

 

Take my word for it, if its alll going to be a new experience for you.

 

 

[Mick]

 

You don't buy that seriously do you Mick, that all this is somehow fans' fault, intentionally or not?

 

 

 

I do think we have Kinnear because nobody else would take a job on knowing that they could be out of work and I say that as somebody who was responsible as I also stood up and applauded the protestors.

 

Nobody knows if the club would have been put up for sale regardless but I’ve seen nothing to prove that it would have been.

 

What came first?  Was it the protests or the club going up for sale?  The timeline suggests that the club was put on the market because of the protests.

 

[The Prophet]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some s**** and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

Excellent post. One thing though, I haven't read the full thread but what I have read I don't think too many have said they would want Shepherd back. I think what most are trying to say is they hoped Ashley would be and still can be ambitious by backing his managers like Shepherd usually did.

[Dr Venkman]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

haha, you still insist that one person with less than 30% of shares makes all these appointments then tells everybody about it later. You still defend the worst owner we have had in decades - because he hasn't "embarrassed" you yet - never mind, the way soopa mike is going it won't be too long before you will be wanting someone to come along and save the club just like the Halls and Shepherd did in 1992.

 

I've long suspected you didn't really support the club back then and with every post you make expressing sentiments like this post you have just made, only re-inforces that impression.

 

There is nothing that can change history, look at the league positions, the state of the ground, the esteem the club was held in inside the game, the crowds, anything you can think of pre-1992. Its people like you who change history ie the absurd notion you tried to peddle once that the Halls and Shepherd were "just the same" as their predecessors and the equally absurd picture you tried to paint that the club wasn't any better than when making excuses for Waddle, Gazza and Beardsley all wanting to leave the club to further their careers, like Shay Given may do now.

 

Fact is, people like you wanted rid of fat fred for anyone because he "embarrassed" you, but you are now looking at a team on its way back to where the Halls and shepherd found it, and unless someone picks it up are going to be embarrassed a lot more than you were watching a team that qualified for europe regularly and was an established top division club.

 

Take my word for it, if its alll going to be a new experience for you.

 

 

 

personally i wanted rid of him because he proved himself to be utterly inept and was very very bad for the club, maybe micks motivation was different though? after all you would know, wouldnt you?

 

 

[NE5]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some s**** and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

Excellent post. One thing though, I haven't read the full thread but what I have read I don't think too many have said they would want Shepherd back. I think what most are trying to say is they hoped Ashley would be and still can be ambitious by backing his managers like Shepherd usually did.

 

you still don't realise that this is a choice. We may get more owners like Ashley who don't have ambition, and if that is the case, it would be a long time before someone got near matching the ex owners that you blindly slate.

 

 

[NE5]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

haha, you still insist that one person with less than 30% of shares makes all these appointments then tells everybody about it later. You still defend the worst owner we have had in decades - because he hasn't "embarrassed" you yet - never mind, the way soopa mike is going it won't be too long before you will be wanting someone to come along and save the club just like the Halls and Shepherd did in 1992.

 

I've long suspected you didn't really support the club back then and with every post you make expressing sentiments like this post you have just made, only re-inforces that impression.

 

There is nothing that can change history, look at the league positions, the state of the ground, the esteem the club was held in inside the game, the crowds, anything you can think of pre-1992. Its people like you who change history ie the absurd notion you tried to peddle once that the Halls and Shepherd were "just the same" as their predecessors and the equally absurd picture you tried to paint that the club wasn't any better than when making excuses for Waddle, Gazza and Beardsley all wanting to leave the club to further their careers, like Shay Given may do now.

 

Fact is, people like you wanted rid of fat fred for anyone because he "embarrassed" you, but you are now looking at a team on its way back to where the Halls and shepherd found it, and unless someone picks it up are going to be embarrassed a lot more than you were watching a team that qualified for europe regularly and was an established top division club.

 

Take my word for it, if its alll going to be a new experience for you.

 

 

 

personally i wanted rid of him because he proved himself to be utterly inept and was very very bad for the club, maybe micks motivation was different though? after all you would know, wouldnt you?

 

 

 

so you think qualifying for europe more than everybody bar 4 clubs, filling the stadium, reaching a couple of Cup Finals, playing in the Champions League, attracting top players to the club including Englands main goalscorer, "is inept" do you ?

 

The whole problem with people like you is that you just don't see or understand the reality of football and ambition in football, and even worse is we now have an owner who is showing you exactly how crucial it is, and you STILL don't get it.

 

 

[Guest Pie]

The game has changed so much since we last qualified for the champions league that there is little doubt that we needed investment from elsewhere.

The super rich have altered the way the game is managed. There is no way that Freddie or Ashley could/can compete given those circumstances. Neither are without blame. Freddie mismanaged many an appointment, in fact Bobby was probably his only decent appointment.

Some may mention 'hindsight' but it is up to the chairman to accept responsibility for his actions. Not for his apologists to suggest that he isnt a soothsayer.

In the current climate the organic route is probably as much as we can ask for, assuming we dont get taken over. Thus the focus on youth. Thats not too appealing either.

Ashley is out of his depth and whilst I doubt the economic climate at present has helped, I just dont think that he has it in him to push the club forward.

Freddie had his heart in the right place but as the figurehead of a plc he was a clown. Yes he invested the clubs money. However, that was a very risky strategy given that he had spent money years in advance. Servicing those debts in the current climate may have proved to be very difficult and thus I doubt we would have seen much investment had he stayed.

We were in trouble then and we are in trouble now. The only discernable difference is that we dont look like going bankrupt.

[Unbelievable]

Oh dear, it's descended into an old board/new board discussion again. The simple facts are the old board fucked up badly at the end of their tenure, and the new board have not been able to buck the trend, far from it even, despite all their talk about competing with the best and moving the club forward. Personally, I am currently more concerned about the lack of ambition shown by our CURRENT owner than by whatever mistakes the old board have made. Those have all been discussed over and over again and don't affect our future; the actions, or lack thereof, of the new board do however, and it's not looking good at the moment..

[Mick]

 

Excellent post. One thing though, I haven't read the full thread but what I have read I don't think too many have said they would want Shepherd back. I think what most are trying to say is they hoped Ashley would be and still can be ambitious by backing his managers like Shepherd usually did.

 

More than one has suggested that they'd have him back.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.

 

When Ashley bought the club financially it wasn't in the best of health but the finances were not so bad they couldn't be managed. Not only that he came in at a time where there was endless goodwill and positivity about the place with a new manager who many considered to be the right man for the job at the time, a good experienced manager.

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

I would swap Shepherd for Ashley in a heartbeat but then I'd swap Emre for Nicky Butt in a heartbeat, doesn't mean I'd like to see either back here though as that would be a backwards step. Shepherd has had his time and while he did do some good he ultimately undone it all towards the end. Having said that the appointment of Sam Allardyce which was a sign he'd accepted what state we were in and what needed to be done, could have been a real turning point for him and indeed the club. We'll never know.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Banners and protesters did not force Ashley to put the club up for sale, it had always been up for sale and still is, like the opportunist he is he simply used the protests to publicly declare the club was for sale in order to speed up his exit. The timing was perfect too because around the corner loomed a recession which you'd imagine he knew all about running a retail giant and all that jazz.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

So its the fans' fault eh? f***ing bull! Kinnear is here because Ashley couldn't persuade KK not to resign when they met prior to the Hull match, several days after this all kicked off, a time he spent partying in New York. Kinnear is also here because no-one wants a job where they'll be undermined. Fergie and Wenger came out to support KK and said they'd do the same if they were being undermined. Not that any of this validates the complete and utter mismanagement of the club since that fateful week. Months have passed and things have only gotten worse. You can't keep blaming KK, banners, protesters and even Shepherd long after they've disappeared when things are still going wrong. They've had several chances to at least arrest the slide since, most notably this very month which is ticking ever so closer to an end.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

You can spend your way out of trouble if you have the right man in the dugout. Souness was not that man so handing him all that money was a mistake, a massive one, and should have been handed to Sir Bobby before him or to entice a much better manager. Credit for splashing the cash though, something that needs to happen now, or we go down. Simple as that.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some s**** and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

A lot of those players Allardyce signed were 2nd and 3rd on the list players. We missed out on several players according to him due to the inexperience of the new owner and chairman and due to the internal review that was going on. Anyway, Sam had 21 games or so and yes we were playing s**** and results weren't good enough but with the right backing and support from all he'd have turned us around, maybe not top 6 or top 4 material but certainly not true relegation candidates which is what we are today. I guess we'll never know though and that goes for both our view points.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

I'd like to think we'd be better off on the pitch if Shepherd was still in control with Allardyce as manager. The debt levels were a concern but I'm sure one of the reaons for Allardyce's appointment was his ability to get results on a budget as he successfully did at Bolton and no doubt will do at Ewood Park.

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

No-one to my mind is changing history, perhaps wondering what could have been aye, but the Ashley symapthisers are also doing just that with their crystal balls. If Ashley spends some money, if Ashley appoints a better manager, if Ashley does this and does that and so on.

 

Time will tell.

[Dr Venkman]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

haha, you still insist that one person with less than 30% of shares makes all these appointments then tells everybody about it later. You still defend the worst owner we have had in decades - because he hasn't "embarrassed" you yet - never mind, the way soopa mike is going it won't be too long before you will be wanting someone to come along and save the club just like the Halls and Shepherd did in 1992.

 

I've long suspected you didn't really support the club back then and with every post you make expressing sentiments like this post you have just made, only re-inforces that impression.

 

There is nothing that can change history, look at the league positions, the state of the ground, the esteem the club was held in inside the game, the crowds, anything you can think of pre-1992. Its people like you who change history ie the absurd notion you tried to peddle once that the Halls and Shepherd were "just the same" as their predecessors and the equally absurd picture you tried to paint that the club wasn't any better than when making excuses for Waddle, Gazza and Beardsley all wanting to leave the club to further their careers, like Shay Given may do now.

 

Fact is, people like you wanted rid of fat fred for anyone because he "embarrassed" you, but you are now looking at a team on its way back to where the Halls and shepherd found it, and unless someone picks it up are going to be embarrassed a lot more than you were watching a team that qualified for europe regularly and was an established top division club.

 

Take my word for it, if its alll going to be a new experience for you.

 

 

 

personally i wanted rid of him because he proved himself to be utterly inept and was very very bad for the club, maybe micks motivation was different though? after all you would know, wouldnt you?

 

 

 

so you think qualifying for europe more than everybody bar 4 clubs, filling the stadium, reaching a couple of Cup Finals, playing in the Champions League, attracting top players to the club including Englands main goalscorer, "is inept" do you ?

 

The whole problem with people like you is that you just don't see or understand the reality of football and ambition in football, and even worse is we now have an owner who is showing you exactly how crucial it is, and you STILL don't get it.

 

 

 

the whole problem with YOU is that you think because i didnt approve of shepherd that i automatically think ashley is great, i dont, and neither do others. so stop telling us what we think. i think shepherd's a muppet and so far ashley's been a disaster, do you get that?

[Mowen]

Good to see you back at last HTL. Top post as well btw.

 

indeed, but it will be interesting to see how many will now agree especially those who blindly wanted "anybody but Fred"

 

Or admit it.

 

 

Who cares? Is point scoring that important?

 

As others have said, good to have HTL back posting as well

[Dr Venkman]

Good to see you back at last HTL. Top post as well btw.

 

indeed, but it will be interesting to see how many will now agree especially those who blindly wanted "anybody but Fred"

 

Or admit it.

 

 

Who cares? Is point scoring that important?

 

 

'i told you so'

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

You can spend your way out of trouble if you have the right man in the dugout. Souness was not that man so handing him all that money was a mistake, a massive one, and should have been handed to Sir Bobby before him or to entice a much better manager. Credit for splashing the cash though, something that needs to happen now, or we go down. Simple as that.

 

 

Would you rather Kinnear spent the funds now or Ashley waited til the summer, binned him, & someone else you'd prefer to be in charge got to spend them?

 

Genuine question, my answer is the former FWIW

[fredbob]

The thing i dont understand, is why people are acting like this is the first season we've been in a relegation battle and how therefore accountability lies directly with Ashley, its as though, Ashley IS the reason why we're in show much trouble compeltely disregarding how we were in trouble before he took over.

 

His regime certaily hasnt curtailed the rot, but he certainly didnt start it.

[NE5]

I really don’t know where to start with this thread, it’s so one sided and lacking in reality that it’s laughable.

 

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.  Honestly, some people need to take a few minutes to think before typing. 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some shite and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

haha, you still insist that one person with less than 30% of shares makes all these appointments then tells everybody about it later. You still defend the worst owner we have had in decades - because he hasn't "embarrassed" you yet - never mind, the way soopa mike is going it won't be too long before you will be wanting someone to come along and save the club just like the Halls and Shepherd did in 1992.

 

I've long suspected you didn't really support the club back then and with every post you make expressing sentiments like this post you have just made, only re-inforces that impression.

 

There is nothing that can change history, look at the league positions, the state of the ground, the esteem the club was held in inside the game, the crowds, anything you can think of pre-1992. Its people like you who change history ie the absurd notion you tried to peddle once that the Halls and Shepherd were "just the same" as their predecessors and the equally absurd picture you tried to paint that the club wasn't any better than when making excuses for Waddle, Gazza and Beardsley all wanting to leave the club to further their careers, like Shay Given may do now.

 

Fact is, people like you wanted rid of fat fred for anyone because he "embarrassed" you, but you are now looking at a team on its way back to where the Halls and shepherd found it, and unless someone picks it up are going to be embarrassed a lot more than you were watching a team that qualified for europe regularly and was an established top division club.

 

Take my word for it, if its alll going to be a new experience for you.

 

 

 

personally i wanted rid of him because he proved himself to be utterly inept and was very very bad for the club, maybe micks motivation was different though? after all you would know, wouldnt you?

 

 

 

so you think qualifying for europe more than everybody bar 4 clubs, filling the stadium, reaching a couple of Cup Finals, playing in the Champions League, attracting top players to the club including Englands main goalscorer, "is inept" do you ?

 

The whole problem with people like you is that you just don't see or understand the reality of football and ambition in football, and even worse is we now have an owner who is showing you exactly how crucial it is, and you STILL don't get it.

 

 

 

the whole problem with YOU is that you think because i didnt approve of shepherd that i automatically think ashley is great, i dont, and neither do others. so stop telling us what we think. i think shepherd's a muppet and so far ashley's been a disaster, do you get that?

 

well, lets hope we get someone running the club asap who backs their managers and gets us back into europe rather than relegation.

 

If you call that being a muppet, its your opinion, but I wonder what you would think of a muppet if we really had one. Oh, wait a moment ..........

 

 

[The Prophet]

I think people have lost sight of what is being discussed here. We're not comparing boards, we're not asking if Ashley has done a good job, we're discussing has he shown ambition.

 

The rest of the topics have been discussed to death.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

The timeline suggests that the club was put on the market because of the protests.

 

 

Or a looming recession which Mike Ashley pays analysts to look out for with his retail business. The protests were just a perfect ready made excuse for him. Ever since he took over not a week went by without the media reporting him wanting to sell the club or this and that party being interested, were they all wrong or indeed wrong full stop?

 

Here's what I think...

 

He made a killing on the SE with Sports Direct and with this new found wealth he thought "I know, I'll get myself a new toy, a football club. I could even tie it in with my Sports Shop - brilliant" so off he went looking for a football club, coming across NUFC. "I'll have it" he said, snapping up shares right left and centre. He was so eager he even forgot to do due diligence. Doh!

 

Carrying out an internal review one day he found out his new toy was in a shit load of debt. "Hey, I'm rich, I'll pay it off" and so he did. Or did he? Never mind.

 

Meanwhile at Wembley England were losing to Croatia and in doing so had failed to qualify for the Euros. "Bummer", Mike thought to himself. Big footy competitions were to Sports Direct what sun cream is to holiday makers - they go hand in hand.

 

Already knocked for six, over at HQ SD his analysts had more bad news for him with reports that the country, nay, make that the world, was heading for a recession pretty soon. "Time to get rid of bad debts Mike me old mucker and put some money away", an analyst was overhead telling him.

 

And that's where KK came in.

 

If you're going to sell a car you want to get it valeted, maybe throw on some new tires and a new exhaust to spruce it up a little, make it look and sound better. Well that's what KK was, a unique selling point.

 

Only he didn't tell KK that. No, instead he promised him big money to spend and told him about his grande plans for the club.

 

In the meantime in came Wise and co to run the club for him while he went and bought himself a KK shirt so he could sit with the fans.

 

Wise and co of course, left to their own devices and instructed to spend as less as possible of the owner's and club's money, had a fucking field day until KK confronted them one day and told them he couldn't work this way and off he went.

 

And where was Ashley? Getting pissed in New York while trying to flog the club.

[fredbob]

If people views are so solidly set into the notion that Ashley wants midtable mediocrity and nothing else and is unwilling to spend money - then how come we signed Colo instead of a cheaper player. Why sign Enrique instead of someone much cheaper? Why Barton instead of a cheaper player? Why even entertain the notion of wanting to sign Modric instead of a cheaper player? Why go for Woodgate when we could of had cheaper? Why try for MBia when there are cheaper out there?

 

i dont understadn Ashleys logic if all he wants to do is make the club crap - his actions dont fully back up this simplistic view.

[Dave]

the whole problem with YOU is that you think because i didnt approve of shepherd that i automatically think ashley is great, i dont, and neither do others. so stop telling us what we think. i think shepherd's a muppet and so far ashley's been a disaster, do you get that?

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

 

You can spend your way out of trouble if you have the right man in the dugout. Souness was not that man so handing him all that money was a mistake, a massive one, and should have been handed to Sir Bobby before him or to entice a much better manager. Credit for splashing the cash though, something that needs to happen now, or we go down. Simple as that.

 

 

Would you rather Kinnear spent the funds now or Ashley waited til the summer, binned him, & someone else you'd prefer to be in charge got to spend them?

 

Genuine question, my answer is the former FWIW

 

He appointed Kinnear, he must back him. It has fuck all to do with what I think is right or wrong it is all about what is needed and we need to spend some money. The situation dictates not the manager's name.

[Mick]

18 months or so and we’re rapidly going downhill, don’t make me laugh, today we’re 1 place lower in the league than when he bought the club.

 

When Ashley bought the club financially it wasn't in the best of health but the finances were not so bad they couldn't be managed. Not only that he came in at a time where there was endless goodwill and positivity about the place with a new manager who many considered to be the right man for the job at the time, a good experienced manager.

 

Times have changed, we're more than 12 months into a global recession, try going to your bank and asking for a loan, you'll probably come out thinking you've just wasted your time as the banks are loaning very little and even when they do it's at a premium rate.  A normal loan is currently carrying close to 10% interest, if you can get one.

 

Ashley had an estimated wealth of £1.8 billion, he's currently estimated to have a third of that and he's not alone as most people have seen a massive reduction in wealth.  Edit, according to The Times it was still £1.4 billion in an August 2008 publication.

 

Our owner doesn't have as much money and none of us know how much of his wealth is actually a liquid asset or how much is paper wealth.

 

 

People would want Shepherd back would they?  Brilliant because 18 months after he became chairman and Keegan first walked we were 11 places lower in the league than when Keegan or Sir John left us but we gave Shepherd a chance to put it right.  I know the 18 months for both cover different periods but the end of that time is brings the same result.

 

I would swap Shepherd for Ashley in a heartbeat but then I'd swap Emre for Nicky Butt in a heartbeat, doesn't mean I'd like to see either back here though as that would be a backwards step. Shepherd has had his time and while he did do some good he ultimately undone it all towards the end. Having said that the appointment of Sam Allardyce which was a sign he'd accepted what state we were in and what needed to be done, could have been a real turning point for him and indeed the club. We'll never know.

 

I'm not sure how we'll never know about Allardyce, he had a go and didn't do too well, people also seem to forget about what he served up while here.  He brought his own players in and we were shockiing while he was here.

 

We didn’t make banners calling for his head, we didn’t force anybody to put the club up for sale, and we allowed them a chance to get it right.

 

Banners and protesters did not force Ashley to put the club up for sale, it had always been up for sale and still is, like the opportunist he is he simply used the protests to publicly declare the club was for sale in order to speed up his exit. The timing was perfect too because around the corner loomed a recession which you'd imagine he knew all about running a retail giant and all that jazz.

 

A recession wasn't around the corner when he put the club up for sale, we were at least 8 months into it, he couldn't have picked a worse time to try to sell up.  He went to Dubai to try and sell the club but even they are having cash flow problems as a lot of wealth i tied up in investments which have fallen in value.  They've invested in a market which has come to a shuddering halt, they are in serious s*** financially.

 

Kinnear is here because we forced the owner to put the club up for sale and made the managers job one that nobody worth his salt would take on knowing that he’s probably be looking for another club if a sale went through.

 

So its the fans' fault eh? f***ing bull! Kinnear is here because Ashley couldn't persuade KK not to resign when they met prior to the Hull match, several days after this all kicked off, a time he spent partying in New York. Kinnear is also here because no-one wants a job where they'll be undermined. Fergie and Wenger came out to support KK and said they'd do the same if they were being undermined. Not that any of this validates the complete and utter mismanagement of the club since that fateful week. Months have passed and things have only gotten worse.

 

The fans have played a part in this if the protests forced him into the sale, neither of us know what happened between Ashley and Keegan.  I'll make my conclusions once we find out what went on, if we do find out.

 

Don’t tell me we could spend our way out of trouble because we tried that with Souness and all we did was spend our way into it.  We’re roughly 5,000 down on gates but season ticket sales were complete before Keegan left so the chances are that the 5,000 would have been gone no matter who was here.  We had 47,000 when Keegan had his only home game of this season and we've had that sort of figure 6 times since that game.

 

You can spend your way out of trouble if you have the right man in the dugout. Souness was not that man so handing him all that money was a mistake, a massive one, and should have been handed to Sir Bobby before him or to entice a much better manager. Credit for splashing the cash though, something that needs to happen now, or we go down. Simple as that.

 

You can spend your way out of trouble, like I said you can also spend your way into it, like we did.  We've done it more than once, that's why it took sir Bobby so long to turn things around, he was shopping in the bargain basement more than we are now.

 

And as for appointing a manager to get us out of trouble, Allardyce would have been the same as he was anyway, he was given money to spend and he still failed because he bought some s**** and even and couldn’t get the players to play for him.  Do we have to change history and forget that Allardyce brought us Viduka who had a history of sick notes, Smith who couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a barn door?  Rozenhal was so light weight that he was forced out within months.  Geremi, a player who Sir Bobby informed the club that at Chelsea he was said to have the legs of a 40 year old.  Oh, and he also brought us Cacapa who seems to have older legs than Geremi’s.

 

A lot of those players Allardyce signed were 2nd and 3rd on the list players. We missed out on several players according to him due to the inexperience of the new owner and chairman and due to the internal review that was going on. Anyway, Sam had 21 games or so and yes we were playing s**** and results weren't good enough but with the right backing and support from all he'd have turned us around, maybe not top 6 or top 4 material but certainly not true relegation candidates which is what we are today. I guess we'll never know though and that goes for both our view points.

 

Who were those 1st on Allarcyce's list and how do you know they would have been bought without Ashley or if Allardyce would have had any more success with those than he had with the ones he did get?  When he left we were relegation candidates, we had a team with no confidence and they were running into a set of games which we would have got nothing from, where was the confidence going to come from?

 

The last 18 months have been anything but good, nobody could argue otherwise.  If anybody thinks that we could have been better off if things had stayed the same then based on what?

 

I'd like to think we'd be better off on the pitch if Shepherd was still in control with Allardyce as manager. The debt levels were a concern but I'm sure one of the reaons for Allardyce's appointment was his ability to get results on a budget as he successfully did at Bolton and no doubt will do at Ewood Park.

 

You don't know what his budget would have been, he didn't show any ability while here to do any better.

 

All I’ve seen in this thread is an attempt to change history.

 

No-one to my mind is changing history, perhaps wondering what could have been aye, but the Ashley symapthisers are also doing just that with their crystal balls. If Ashley spends some money, if Ashley appoints a better manager, if Ashley does this and does that and so on.

 

Time will tell.

 

You're accusing people of using crystal balls then used them yourself, what's the difference?

[Mick]

The thing i dont understand, is why people are acting like this is the first season we've been in a relegation battle and how therefore accountability lies directly with Ashley, its as though, Ashley IS the reason why we're in show much trouble compeltely disregarding how we were in trouble before he took over.

 

His regime certaily hasnt curtailed the rot, but he certainly didnt start it.

 

Exactly, he didn't start the rot.  It's fair enough to have a go at him for having failed to stop it but to blame him for starting it is crazy.