People who think we have quality in the squad.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Some people seem to think that under a good manager we could get top 8 with our squad. That may just have been possible this year with the way the league has panned out, but we have to face some simple facts.

 

The concensus on Jonas seems to be he is a quality player.

 

Jonas and Duff and N'Zogbia put together are not half the player Laurent Robert was and they will not produce half as many goals/assists as he did even if they spend twice as long here.

 

Some players declined (including Robert) towards the end of SBR's tenure, when Souness came in he did his best of draining the remaining top 5 quality out of the team. Now it doesn't exist, save maybe Owen could be a squad player for a top 5 team and obviously Given.

[Yorkie]

Robert would have looked woeful in this set-up under this manager.

[cp40]

our sqaud is the culmination of 12 years, of how the club has been run, brim full of big time charlies, who are only here for the money, dont give a shit about the club, have contempt for the fans.

if it wernt for a few exceptions, shearer, given,lee, we would have been here years ago.

 

players love it when newcastle come calling, ..big wages, high profile, dont worry about winning any trophies boys,good sick leave,. .just do what you can be bothered with,fill your boots,mercenaries, ....... we are now in the end game of running the club like this.

[fredbob]

Its entirely subjective and impossible to measure, it also helps Roberts stats when you have an all round world class striker like Shearer knocking them. Id also argue that the way SBR had us playing also dictated how many chances we created as a team.

 

The only objective measure is to look at how they've performed and them as a player, remember Robert wasnt half as creative as he was once Souness came on board, and thats becasue of the way the team had played.

 

Its telling thogh that you do compare this team with one we had 5 years ago. Thats the other measure of how much we've improved as a sqaud.

 

Look at what keegan did last year to see the influence of a good manager with a good squad.

 

The manager is the key.

 

The quality of the ingredients isnt the most important thing, its the skill of the chef.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Robert would have looked woeful in this set-up under this manager.

 

Not in his prime. Rewatch the games with him in. Which one of the players in our squad can strike the ball like him, either in play or from set pieces? Who can cross as good as him? He was pacier than any of our current squad other than Martins off the ball. Simple fact, we have a major lack of quality, people don't like to admit it.

 

With a better manager obviously we'd be better but even with God as manager we wouldn't hit the top 6 with these players.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

The only objective measure is to look at how they've performed and them as a player, remember Robert wasnt half as creative as he was once Souness came on board, and thats becasue of the way the team had played.

 

 

Look at what keegan did last year to see the influence of a good manager with a good squad.

 

What, 9 games without a win? People are deluded if they think we'd approach any sort of top 7 level under Keegan with this squad.

 

When Souness came Robert still had some good performances but he was in decline as a player anyway, he had reached his 30s  at that point.

[fredbob]

Robert would have looked woeful in this set-up under this manager.

 

Not in his prime. Rewatch the games with him in. Which one of the players in our squad can strike the ball like him, either in play or from set pieces? Who can cross as good as him? He was pacier than any of our current squad other than Martins off the ball. Simple fact, we have a major lack of quality, people don't like to admit it.

 

With a better manager obviously we'd be better but even with God as manager we wouldn't hit the top 6 with these players.

 

What aobu tlast seasons run with Keegan - did it not show that a good manager could get good results with this squad?

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Robert would have looked woeful in this set-up under this manager.

 

Not in his prime. Rewatch the games with him in. Which one of the players in our squad can strike the ball like him, either in play or from set pieces? Who can cross as good as him? He was pacier than any of our current squad other than Martins off the ball. Simple fact, we have a major lack of quality, people don't like to admit it.

 

With a better manager obviously we'd be better but even with God as manager we wouldn't hit the top 6 with these players.

 

What aobu tlast seasons run with Keegan - did it not show that a good manager could get good results with this squad?

 

No, he went 9 games without a win.

[TRon]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

[johnnypd]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

 

 

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position.

[fredbob]

The only objective measure is to look at how they've performed and them as a player, remember Robert wasnt half as creative as he was once Souness came on board, and thats becasue of the way the team had played.

 

 

Look at what keegan did last year to see the influence of a good manager with a good squad.

 

What, 9 games without a win? People are deluded if they think we'd approach any sort of top 7 level under Keegan with this squad.

 

When Souness came Robert still had some good performances but he was in decline as a player anyway, he had reached his 30s  at that point.

 

Not really, Keegan didnt get the team playing straight away, but when he did get the balance right it showed.

[fredbob]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

 

 

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position.

 

I think our wingers would be twice as productive if we had Shearer up front, as it stands though we have zero aerial ability up front at all. roberts crosses would be half as effective in my opinion.

[Bad Mongo]

We lack someone who can cross, we lack a midfield spine, we lack someone who can shoot from distance (apart from Martins), and we lack a strong and big striker. Without those kinds of players, it doesn't matter that Jonas can take on opposition players, since he's unable to cross the ball, and even if he were, there would be no one to challenge for it.

 

The only time we've looked good was when Martins, Owen and Viduka all were fit at the same time. This will never happen again.

[TRon]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

 

 

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position.

 

No doubt, but for me I consider Jonas as one of our better players, he makes up for his lack of goals by opening up teams with his speed and movement. I would far rather upgrade the other midifelders first. If we put Jonas up for sale I'm pretty sure there'd be plenty of takers. Can't say that for Duff, Butt, Geremi etc.

[Skirge]

We don't have a massive squad but if all of them were fit we would have enough quality to be in the top half of the table, at least under a decent manager anyway.

[colinmk]

Our squad has quality in a few areas but no good players in key positions. If you added two quality central midfielders and a striker who can hold the ball up and link play and it would be mostly a good first eleven but still an average squad. Some of the good players we have are extremely flawed or plainly don't want to play for us so this negates their ability really.

[ElDiablo]

Our squad has quality in a few areas but no good players in key positions. If you added two quality central midfielders and a striker who can hold the ball up and link play and it would be mostly a good first eleven but still an average squad. Some of the good players we have are extremely flawed or plainly don't want to play for us so this negates their ability really.

 

Agreed, we have no spine, in more than one philosophical sense.

[CaliMag]

We got Robert at his prime (2001 to 2003) no doubt, but the team during that time was also filled with equally untalenetd players that we have today. I am definately in the "we need a better manager to get results" camp.

I would take our defenders today over SBR's. Robert and Bellamy were just as much of a destructive influence in the dressing room and training ground as Zoggy - probably even more so.

The Robert example doesn't really work because I doubt the 2001 edition of Robert would do as well in today's team without a target man or pacey striker to get to the end of his crosses. We could use his free kicks though.

[MW]

I miss Shearer  :-[

[CaliMag]

Our squad has quality in a few areas but no good players in key positions. If you added two quality central midfielders and a striker who can hold the ball up and link play and it would be mostly a good first eleven but still an average squad. Some of the good players we have are extremely flawed or plainly don't want to play for us so this negates their ability really.

Going along that line of logic, perhaps the most important SBR era team member we are missing would be Speed.

[johnnypd]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

 

 

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position.

 

I think our wingers would be twice as productive if we had Shearer up front, as it stands though we have zero aerial ability up front at all. roberts crosses would be half as effective in my opinion.

 

i dont agree that we have zero aerial ability. we dont have anyone who can fight for long-balls up front as Shearer used to, but Owen can be lethal in the air, particular in how he times his runs to attack the ball, usually at the near post. One problem he has is not being able to keep up with the pace of the play at times and snatching at chances instead of coolly finishing them off. Martins too, while he doesnt have the same movement in the box, is also decent in the air, but mainly from set-pieces and mostly due to his extraordinary leap.

[Guest Heneage]

Can anyone see the light?

[fredbob]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

 

 

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position.

 

I think our wingers would be twice as productive if we had Shearer up front, as it stands though we have zero aerial ability up front at all. roberts crosses would be half as effective in my opinion.

 

i dont agree that we have zero aerial ability. we dont have anyone who can fight for long-balls up front as Shearer used to, but Owen can be lethal in the air, particular in how he times his runs to attack the ball, usually at the near post. One problem he has is not being able to keep up with the pace of the play at times and snatching at chances instead of coolly finishing them off. Martins too, while he doesnt have the same movement in the box, is also decent in the air, but mainly from set-pieces and mostly due to his extraordinary leap.

 

My point is that Owen and Martins arent beating anyone in the air, if you at some of the goals that sheaers scores theres many where he's challenged a defender in the air, outleaped them or just been more physical etc. The same isnt true with Owen, he does score goals off his head but thats usually down to him having a free header which i suppose goes to his credit. With Shearer and Bellamy we had a very balnced forward line where the ball could be crossed from deep or from the byline, id say that alot of crosses would be wasted with Owen or Martins up front.

[johnnypd]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

 

 

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position.

 

I think our wingers would be twice as productive if we had Shearer up front, as it stands though we have zero aerial ability up front at all. roberts crosses would be half as effective in my opinion.

 

i dont agree that we have zero aerial ability. we dont have anyone who can fight for long-balls up front as Shearer used to, but Owen can be lethal in the air, particular in how he times his runs to attack the ball, usually at the near post. One problem he has is not being able to keep up with the pace of the play at times and snatching at chances instead of coolly finishing them off. Martins too, while he doesnt have the same movement in the box, is also decent in the air, but mainly from set-pieces and mostly due to his extraordinary leap.

 

My point is that Owen and Martins arent beating anyone in the air, if you at some of the goals that sheaers scores theres many where he's challenged a defender in the air, outleaped them or just been more physical etc. The same isnt true with Owen, he does score goals off his head but thats usually down to him having a free header which i suppose goes to his credit. With Shearer and Bellamy we had a very balnced forward line where the ball could be crossed from deep or from the byline, id say that alot of crosses would be wasted with Owen or Martins up front.

 

that's true, we definitely need a proper Viduka replacement soon. Then again how many times have we seen Jonas put good crosses into the box? it's not really something he looks to do unlike the more orthodox wingers who base their whole game around getting it into the box, Duff is shit and N'Zogbia is off his head.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Robert had much better end product but Jonas is much  better team player so it's a case of swings and roundabouts there. The problem for me is that we don't have real quality in midfield. The back four is passable when the first choice defenders are fit, but there is no cover.

 

The midfield even when everyone is fit lacks goals. This is why I don't rate Guthrie as a "quality" player. In his position most successful teams have a midfielder who attacks the box and contributes goals. Butt was pensioned off a deacde ago at Man U, it's a disgrace he is starting virtually every game for us. Duff is a shell of a player doomed to relegate whoever he plays for. Barton is the only decent central midfielder we have on our books and he's slow.

 

You can't run a high powered car on a clapped out motor and that's what we've got in our engine room.

 

 

I do agree with AS9's Robert comment tho, though probably a better comparison would be with Dyer in terms of what Jonas brings to the side. in that sense we're still to replace Robert's end product rather than his position.

 

That is a good comparison actually, Jonas is like a slower version of Dyer who isn't a cunt and doesn't get injured, also works harder defensively. Whilst Jonas looks destructive when running, he flatters to deceive imo. Take his late run in the box vs WH; can you see Robert not converting in that position? He would have cracked it like a bullet.

 

Jonas has the work ethic which people seem to desire so much, but you cannot replace technical ability. He will never score a goal like the many Robert smashed in.

 

What I'm trying to say is technically, who do we have in the squad who competes with the likes of Robert/Solano? Nobody.