Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=228185.0 Well I thought so anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubblyDubblyDubbly Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Nothing about the man we ( well me at least) didn't already know and appreciate. Unfortunately his return to the Toon was wrong place, wrong time and he left us deeper in the mire... but he's only played a small part in our rapid demise.. fu**ing tragic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Good stuff, i like to see loyalty to those who achieved in the past. he was a liverpool Legand, but he will always be , Wor Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Very genuine article that. I liked the recognition that Keegan is sometimes overlooked as a Liverpool hero because he went on to achieve success at other clubs afterwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatwax Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Nothing about the man we ( well me at least) didn't already know and appreciate. Unfortunately his return to the Toon was wrong place, wrong time and he left us deeper in the mire... but he's only played a small part in our rapid demise.. fu**ing tragic His leaving certainly started the ball rolling but what annoys me more than anything is that the club has had several chances since then to get us back onto some sort of track and completely failed. They appointed Kinnear - it could be argued that no-one else would come, but then they went on to give him a contract until the end of the season. Surely SOMEBODY could have come in who wouldn't cause us to throw away points. Obviously the biggest chance was to strengthen in the winter window.. and they well and truly fucked it up. I doubt they could have fucked it up any more than they did really. Very good article, I enjoyed reading it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Aye good to read that. Always good to hear other fans appreciating him. Bet Southampton fans have got some cracking memories of him as well. Funnily enough, he was involved in one of their best periods (albeit short) in their history. I wonder how he does it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. Keegan was great, but there are very few clubs today that will be able to offer him the sort of conditions he wants to work with, one of which is a big transfer kitty. He left Newcastle because of it once before and we were one of the biggest clubs in the country at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. I'm surprised you had time to say all of that with most of your time spent with your nose against his arse or your mouth around his cock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniatmoko Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. I'm surprised you had time to say all of that with most of your time spent with your nose against his arse or your mouth around his cock awful reply tbh.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Obviously the biggest chance was to strengthen in the winter window.. and they well and truly fucked it up. I doubt they could have fucked it up any more than they did really. Seriously? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KeithKettleborough Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. I'm surprised you had time to say all of that with most of your time spent with your nose against his arse or your mouth around his cock awful reply tbh.... Completely agree and agree about the KK comment too. Kevin was our most successful manager in recent times and that probably coincided with the fact that he was the manager in every sense of the word. He knew what he wanted, got it and generally gave us the best years we will ever see. Even his second spell was amazing as that team he took over was doomed. Getting that lot to play football, was a miracle I felt. It was to some extent a greater accomplishment keeping us up last season than it was saving us from the old 3rd. Keegan wanted to do the managers job in the way that the job should be done. Control over team selection and also buying and selling. When he had that we were relatively successful and when he felt that was being taken away from him, i.e. the PLC, then he couldn't manage in the way that he was used to and probably promised. So off he went. Of course similar things happened with Ashley, he wasn't managing like he expected he would do (Wise etal) or even was promised and so away he went. I think Bobby had a good spell when he was managing in the true sense of the word, buying well with folk like Bellamy and Robert etc but it seems that he started to fail when his management was undermined. I am sure his attempts to get rid of Shearer (reported a few years ago....was it to Liverpool?) were the first indications that he was no longer fully in charge. I expect Bobby would have left on principle but of course, with his age etc, he had no where else to go and so continued with his power diluted. If younger, he would also have walked away when the contract was changed, as it was obvious his management was severely weakened. We had the same sort of thing with Gullit really. Probably a bad appointment but again he couldn't manage in a way that he wanted, again Shearer the stumbling point and so off he went. Not saying Gullit was right at the time but he wanted Al out of the pictiure and I imagine that Freddie disagreed with this forcibly. Whether right or wrong, Gullit couldn't manage properly and so left. Difficult to sort out the other managers in the same vein but Roeder was always under trial in many ways, Sam wasn't here long enough, although probably just as well and JFK is a puppet to some extent and again isn't a manager with real control. Souness I cant decide upon though his run in with Bellamy maybe suggested that he had full support from the chairman and therefore full control over team matters etc, just useless whatever power he was allowed. KK could not work under the situation of Wise etc and the buying and selling of players he didn't approve of and I feel thats why he left. Many feel he should have stuck it out but thats not Kevin's way. The job was not what he was told it was gonna be and I am sure if he knew that at the start, he would not have returned in the first place. Perhaps he should have chucked it as soon as Wise was appointed but maybe he didn't realise the full extent of the dilution of his management until that final day or so of the summer transfer window, when players were coming and going without his consent or even knowledge. Its hard to see another manager having full control but until this happens with a good man in charge, we won't go far. Those who have been successful have had this, best example of course at the present time is Ferguson. He has been a manager in the full sense of the word and I think thats the only way it can work. Until we have that here, we won't ever move forward and I suspect that its never going to happen and that Kevin and to the lesser extent Sir Bobby, may be the last true managers of NUFC. If HTT has been sticking up for KK in respect of this, then I would have to agree. Comments following his contribution could have perhaps been a bit more constructive but then agan, maybe the name says it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan was living in a fantasy land. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan was living in a fantasy land. Fantasy? Promoted as Captain 1984, Promoted as manager, 1992 League finishes, 1st, 3rd, 6th , 2nd, 2nd, highest win rate of a newcastle manager, 55%. Huge roll of honours as a player, including European Footballer of the year twice. Fantasy, or just wanting this club to match his standards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan was living in a fantasy land. Fantasy? Promoted as Captain 1984, Promoted as manager, 1992 League finishes, 1st, 3rd, 6th , 2nd, 2nd, highest win rate of a newcastle manager, 55%. Huge roll of honours as a player, including European Footballer of the year twice. Fantasy, or just wanting this club to match his standards? not denying he had an excellent playing career and should be remembered fondly for it, just don't think he could cope with the reality of what has happened to our club over the past 6 years If HTT has been sticking up for KK in respect of this, then I would have to agree. Comments following his contribution could have perhaps been a bit more constructive but then agan, maybe the name says it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan was living the person who allowed all Newcastle fans to live in a fantasy land. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan was living the person who allowed all Newcastle fans to live in a fantasy land. you could be onto something there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan was living the person who allowed all Newcastle fans to live in a fantasy land. its the only time since my first match in the 70s, that i honestly felt, we were the best team in the land, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 its the only time since my first match in the 70s, that i honestly felt, we were the best team in the land, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. Keegan was great, but there are very few clubs today that will be able to offer him the sort of conditions he wants to work with, one of which is a big transfer kitty. He left Newcastle because of it once before and we were one of the biggest clubs in the country at the time. He didn't leave us either time because of the size of the transfer kitty, although I suspect he was promised big money by Mike Ashley which obviously never materialised so that would have had a bearing in his decision to quit second time around, but full control is what KK needs if he is to work his magic and when we went to PLC he wouldn't have had that and he certainly never had it under Ashley. I agree with your sentiments though, he'll not be handed full control at most clubs in the top-flight these days. I do think he himself tried to change and tried to adjust to the club's new system and it could have worked had KK's job description not changed from the man with the final say to the man who just selects the team and motivates the players, not even able to discuss transfers to the media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. Keegan was great, but there are very few clubs today that will be able to offer him the sort of conditions he wants to work with, one of which is a big transfer kitty. He left Newcastle because of it once before and we were one of the biggest clubs in the country at the time. He didn't leave us either time because of the size of the transfer kitty, although I suspect he was promised big money by Mike Ashley which obviously never materialised so that would have had a bearing in his decision to quit second time around, but full control is what KK needs if he is to work his magic and when we went to PLC he wouldn't have had that and he certainly never had it under Ashley. I agree with your sentiments though, he'll not be handed full control at most clubs in the top-flight these days. I do think he himself tried to change and tried to adjust to the club's new system and it could have worked had KK's job description not changed from the man with the final say to the man who just selects the team and motivates the players, not even able to discuss transfers to the media. Exactly, why should Keegan be prepared to subordinate his huge football knowledge, and experience to , a man who was a far lesser player and manager, a bloke who sells cheap football shirts,and a 'geezer' who managed a casino? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan's departure has played a part in our free fall without a doubt, but KK himself hasn't. He can't be held responsible for things out of his control much less many of the things that have since conspired to speed up or force the free fall we are in. He made the right decision to leave if he genuinley felt he couldn't work with others at the club - if only for himself. He wasn't to know what was waiting for the club around the corner after he left. As such I cannot criticise the man even though I was angry and upset with his decision and just wished he had of just put up with it. That's not how KK works though and I can't expect him to be something he isn't just to protect my own feelings or the status quo. Keegan was great, but there are very few clubs today that will be able to offer him the sort of conditions he wants to work with, one of which is a big transfer kitty. He left Newcastle because of it once before and we were one of the biggest clubs in the country at the time. He didn't leave us either time because of the size of the transfer kitty, although I suspect he was promised big money by Mike Ashley which obviously never materialised so that would have had a bearing in his decision to quit second time around, but full control is what KK needs if he is to work his magic and when we went to PLC he wouldn't have had that and he certainly never had it under Ashley. I agree with your sentiments though, he'll not be handed full control at most clubs in the top-flight these days. I do think he himself tried to change and tried to adjust to the club's new system and it could have worked had KK's job description not changed from the man with the final say to the man who just selects the team and motivates the players, not even able to discuss transfers to the media. Exactly, why should Keegan be prepared to subordinate his huge football knowledge, and experience to , a man who was a far lesser player and manager, a bloke who sells cheap football shirts,and a 'geezer' who managed a casino? And at the same time deliver the kind of results, players and football fans have come to expect from the man... You can't do that if you're just the motivator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest black n white Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Keegan was living the person who allowed all Newcastle fans to live in a fantasy land. you could be onto something there... It was dreams not living in a fantasy land. Dream of winning the FA cup Dream of winning the Carling Cup Dream of having a half decent season Dream of having a half decent squad If you cant dream about having any of these things then whats the point, Its not that unrealistic. Its the southern based media who have claimed we are living in a fantasy land, thankfully in about a year we wont have to worry or contend with these people as they will be out of jobs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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