Hillsborough disaster

[Robster]

Lets not forget the flying bottles...was ridiculous, like a war

I had friends there that day and remember them telling me about bricks and bottles being thrown.

[Guest optimistic nit]

While it's obvious that the police majorly screwed up I think they have been villified excessivley about this whilst the majority of Liverpool fans, and others, are happy to ignore the role that others played in it. If, as has been said here, the problems at Hillsborough were obvious then they should have been dealt with by the ground staff and board of Sheffield Wednesday FC. Also it is shameful that you never hear any condemnation from Liverpool FC of their own fans who went to the game without a ticket. It's ridiculous to think that you can go to a match without a ticket and try to get in. Anybody with half a brain cell can surely see that X into Y doesn't go. Especially when there's a big fucking metal fence stopping people getting out the other end. And don't forget why the fences were there in the first place, it's because of the abject behaviour of English football fans (obviously not all of them, but enough to make the authorities put up fences) throughout the 70's and 80's. If they had behaved like decent people instead of animals they wouldn't have found themselves caged up like animals.

 

So yes, obviously entrance the ground was shambolically and disasterously policed and stewarded, but there are far more factors in it than just the pigs are cunts and it's their fault the 96 died. There is no way there will be any more justice for them than they have already got.

 

It's a shameful part of English football history but that's what it is. History. Bad shit happens then you move on. Things are better now and this sort of thing should never happen again.

 

from what i've read the police made the situation a hell of a lot worse, i'm not just talking about not stopping people coming in, but about refusing ambulances to enter the ground and doing nothing to help while people were being killed.

[dustynrg]

While it's obvious that the police majorly screwed up I think they have been villified excessivley about this whilst the majority of Liverpool fans, and others, are happy to ignore the role that others played in it. If, as has been said here, the problems at Hillsborough were obvious then they should have been dealt with by the ground staff and board of Sheffield Wednesday FC. Also it is shameful that you never hear any condemnation from Liverpool FC of their own fans who went to the game without a ticket. It's ridiculous to think that you can go to a match without a ticket and try to get in. Anybody with half a brain cell can surely see that X into Y doesn't go. Especially when there's a big f***ing metal fence stopping people getting out the other end. And don't forget why the fences were there in the first place, it's because of the abject behaviour of English football fans (obviously not all of them, but enough to make the authorities put up fences) throughout the 70's and 80's. If they had behaved like decent people instead of animals they wouldn't have found themselves caged up like animals.

 

So yes, obviously entrance the ground was shambolically and disasterously policed and stewarded, but there are far more factors in it than just the pigs are c***s and it's their fault the 96 died. There is no way there will be any more justice for them than they have already got.

 

It's a shameful part of English football history but that's what it is. History. Bad s*** happens then you move on. Things are better now and this sort of thing should never happen again.

 

from what i've read the police made the situation a hell of a lot worse, i'm not just talking about not stopping people coming in, but about refusing ambulances to enter the ground and doing nothing to help while people were being killed.

 

Not only did nothing, but stood en masse at the halfway line because they thought it was a pitch invasion. Some police even pushed people back in to stop a pitch invasion. They realised too late that it wasn't but by then it was too late.

[Revolution Number 9]

ive thought for a long time, it was a combination of factors,

 

bad/ unsafe stadium design....penning people in the middle sections.

 

poor policing, hindered/ influenced by the behavior of fans during 70s and 80s

 

p*ssed fans turning up late without tickets.

 

put the three together, recipe for disaster. RIP Liverpool fans that were lost- it could have happend at any big game around that time,looking back the warning signs were there, they were the unlucky ones.

Agree with all of this.

[ian]

I was watching as it unfolded....."pis***d  fans arriving late "...was the real problem......dont blame the police...nobody new what was going on......too easy to blame them.

 

[brummie]

The report into the disaster stated that there was no evidence of a mass of ticketless fans outside the ground, but it still gets pedalled.

 

There's also a contradiction in saying "don't blame the police" and "nobody knew what was going on" - given that the key duty of the police is to know exactly what was going on.

 

The thing about Hillsborough is that, as any fan who attended matches regularly at the time will tell you, it really "could have been you" - we were all in situations where there were far too many people in too small a place, behind fences and with inadequate crowd control infrastructure.

[ian]

Take away the drunk fans....wouldnt have happened......

[brummie]

Take away the drunk fans....wouldnt have happened......

 

Again, not true.

 

The police were funnelling too many people into too small an area, when the adjacent areas were not at capacity.

 

There is absolutely no evidence that it was caused by drunk fans. You might as well say "take away the FA Cup, and it wouldn't have happened".

[Revolution Number 9]

Not caused by, but certainly exacerbated by, which the Taylor report admits if I remember correctly. There's no single factor to blame IMO, was a multitude of problems that caused it, though some factors did more harm than others.

[dustynrg]

Take away the drunk fans....wouldnt have happened......

 

So you're saying football fans shouldn't drink before they go to a match then? That would be novel.

[kingkerouac]

The facts, rare that they are, have been discussed by everyone.

The problem is that there appears to have been a concerted effort to 'cover-up'.

The main cause, in my opinion, was the fact that football fans were - and to a certain extent still are - treated like cattle.

They were mainly working-class, so (they assumed) there'd be few complaints about the way they were treated.

There has been a sickening socio-political bent to a lot of the opinions coming from the mainstream (southern) press since it happened.

There, but for the grace of god, go all of us.

 

Though, we have to wonder, what is it that was said in those cabinet meetings between Thatcher and her ministers that they really do not want us to know about?

 

[Revolution Number 9]

The facts, rare that they are, have been discussed by everyone.

The problem is that there appears to have been a concerted effort to 'cover-up'.

The main cause, in my opinion, was the fact that football fans were - and to a certain extent still are - treated like cattle.

They were mainly working-class, so (they assumed) there'd be few complaints about the way they were treated.

There has been a sickening socio-political bent to a lot of the opinions coming from the mainstream (southern) press since it happened.

There, but for the grace of god, go all of us.

 

Though, we have to wonder, what is it that was said in those cabinet meetings between Thatcher and her ministers that they really do not want us to know about?

 

You really don't like the south do you mate

[Ryan_Taylor]

The facts, rare that they are, have been discussed by everyone.

The problem is that there appears to have been a concerted effort to 'cover-up'.

The main cause, in my opinion, was the fact that football fans were - and to a certain extent still are - treated like cattle.

They were mainly working-class, so (they assumed) there'd be few complaints about the way they were treated.

There has been a sickening socio-political bent to a lot of the opinions coming from the mainstream (southern) press since it happened.

There, but for the grace of god, go all of us.

 

Though, we have to wonder, what is it that was said in those cabinet meetings between Thatcher and her ministers that they really do not want us to know about?

 

You really don't like the south do you mate

 

Who does

[Revolution Number 9]

The facts, rare that they are, have been discussed by everyone.

The problem is that there appears to have been a concerted effort to 'cover-up'.

The main cause, in my opinion, was the fact that football fans were - and to a certain extent still are - treated like cattle.

They were mainly working-class, so (they assumed) there'd be few complaints about the way they were treated.

There has been a sickening socio-political bent to a lot of the opinions coming from the mainstream (southern) press since it happened.

There, but for the grace of god, go all of us.

 

Though, we have to wonder, what is it that was said in those cabinet meetings between Thatcher and her ministers that they really do not want us to know about?

 

You really don't like the south do you mate

 

Who does

Southerners and stereotype-happy Americans in popular holiday destinations.

[magpie418]

The facts, rare that they are, have been discussed by everyone.

The problem is that there appears to have been a concerted effort to 'cover-up'.

The main cause, in my opinion, was the fact that football fans were - and to a certain extent still are - treated like cattle.

They were mainly working-class, so (they assumed) there'd be few complaints about the way they were treated.

There has been a sickening socio-political bent to a lot of the opinions coming from the mainstream (southern) press since it happened.

There, but for the grace of god, go all of us.

 

Though, we have to wonder, what is it that were said in those cabinet meetings between Thatcher and her ministers that they really do not want us to know about?

 

You really don't like the south do you mate

 

He's talking about the southern press, the press that were quite happy plastering pictures of dying northerners all over their front pages and depicting them as scum robbing each others corpses. (and lets not forget pissing on those corpses - the Sun).

 

The press that are happy snorting cocaine, smearing the working class and supporting thatcher (80's)

the same press today that snort cocaine, smear the working class and hack into dead children's parents phones.

 

maybe some of you are a bit wet around the ears to history?

 

 

 

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Have read the heartbreaking first post, but not all 17 pages after.

 

I was at Arsenal-Toon match that day. I can recall at least 2 games when we were dangerously overcrowded from that (relegation) season - Aston Villa away, and Sheff Wed at home. Oh boy.

 

 

*** Everyone should click on the link in my sig. How Kelvin MacKenzie gets on the BBC these days is nowt short of a disgrace.

[Guest north shields lad]

Good point

The report into the disaster stated that there was no evidence of a mass of ticketless fans outside the ground, but it still gets pedalled.

 

There's also a contradiction in saying "don't blame the police" and "nobody knew what was going on" - given that the key duty of the police is to know exactly what was going on.

 

The thing about Hillsborough is that, as any fan who attended matches regularly at the time will tell you, it really "could have been you" - we were all in situations where there were far too many people in too small a place, behind fences and with inadequate crowd control infrastructure.

,

 

True, and the mad thing is they confirmed that there was less people on that terrace, than the amount of tickets, it was just that they were all in the middle pen, when the side pend were almost empty. Anyone that went to football in them days knows, when you look back, that it could of been any of us. It really was a disaster waiting to happen, and we were all treated like cattle.

[Ryan_Taylor]

Never read the first post before now. Fucking hell

[Novocastrian]

Have read the heartbreaking first post, but not all 17 pages after.

 

I was at Arsenal-Toon match that day. I can recall at least 2 games when we were dangerously overcrowded from that (relegation) season - Aston Villa away, and Sheff Wed at home. Oh boy.*** Everyone should click on the link in my sig. How Kelvin MacKenzie gets on the BBC these days is nowt short of a disgrace.

 

I was at that match and it was terrifying, I was getting crushed against the concrete stanchions. God knows what was going on that day but the Gallowgate was dangerously overcrowded. I managed to climb out as did loads of others but nothing was really was said afterwards and it was quickly forgotten.

[summerof69]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2011/08/25/victory-for-hillsborough-campaigners-online-petition-after-government-says-all-documents-and-files-can-be-published-100252-29298373/

 

 

 

CAMPAIGNERS today won a major victory in the fight to release all files relating to the Hillsborough disaster.

 

In a highly unusual move the government agreed for all documents to be published, including notes of discussions between then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and her senior advisors normally kept secret for 30 years

 

It is understood the government has bowed to pressure after an online petition, which was last night had more than 130,000 signatories, demanded the publication of all files relating to the disaster, when 96 Liverpool fans died at the match against Nottingham Forest on April 15 1989.

 

A government source said under the previous situation the documents would have been released to the panel, but there was no guarantee they would have been seen by the public.

 

 

 

 

But now the Cabinet office has committed to full disclosure.

 

A statement released on the online petition last night read: “The Government has confirmed its commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure.

 

“All papers had previously been shared with the Hillsborough Independent Panel.

 

“The Government is happy for all the papers, including Cabinet papers, to be released as soon as the panel so decides, in consultation with the families. We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public.”

 

A spokesman added the government would still appeal against the ruling of Information Commissioner Christopher Graham that the papers should now be made public as it said it wanted them to be released in an ordered way to the victims’ families first before the media.

 

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[Guest TheSummerOf69]

The government was obliged to reply after the petition reached 100 000 signatures, which it did with ease.

 

I would still urge everyone to sign it. It will place more pressure on those at the top.

Start here, then click the link you're emailed to sign (you're safe - it's a govt site):

 

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199

 

 

If you are in any doubt then read the original post to this thread, or click on the link in my sig...

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Have read the heartbreaking first post, but not all 17 pages after.

 

I was at Arsenal-Toon match that day. I can recall at least 2 games when we were dangerously overcrowded from that (relegation) season - Aston Villa away, and Sheff Wed at home. Oh boy.*** Everyone should click on the link in my sig. How Kelvin MacKenzie gets on the BBC these days is nowt short of a disgrace.

 

I was at that match and it was terrifying, I was getting crushed against the concrete stanchions. God knows what was going on that day but the Gallowgate was dangerously overcrowded. I managed to climb out as did loads of others but nothing was really was said afterwards and it was quickly forgotten.

 

Some of the old gadgies used to let you jump the turnstiles for a few bob. Plus it was a running joke that the stadium would be a lot fuller than the officially declared attendance (money off taxes maybe?). They just used to pack you in with no sign of a "full up" strategy. Scary. When I say "It could have been us" in my sig, I mean it.

 

It's hard to convey to youngsters now how much contempt football fans were held in then by every level of the authorities. (This was when it was very much a working class spectator sport, before it became fashionable and ridiculously expensive.) Many also died at Bradford - burning in an old woooden stand with decades of litter collected underneath it, because the gates at the back of the stand were locked so there was no escape from the inferno.

[wyn davies]

Everyone blames everyone else when in reality all are to blame. Scousers for attempting to get in by any means possible,police lack of control. Ibrox had there issues when fans left the ground down the stairs only to attempt a return back up them when they (Rangers ) I believe got an equalizer, its all down to the herd instinct and all wanting something for nowt. Sorry but in my opinion ultimatley the biggest fault was with the fans no one else.

[Guest PhilB]

Everyone blames everyone else when in reality all are to blame. Scousers for attempting to get in by any means possible,police lack of control. Ibrox had there issues when fans left the ground down the stairs only to attempt a return back up them when they (Rangers ) I believe got an equalizer, its all down to the herd instinct and all wanting something for nowt. Sorry but in my opinion ultimatley the biggest fault was with the fans no one else.

 

Makes you wonder why they have police at football matches at all doesn't it?

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

Everyone blames everyone else when in reality all are to blame. Scousers for attempting to get in by any means possible,police lack of control. Ibrox had there issues when fans left the ground down the stairs only to attempt a return back up them when they (Rangers ) I believe got an equalizer, its all down to the herd instinct and all wanting something for nowt. Sorry but in my opinion ultimatley the biggest fault was with the fans no one else.

 

Even the authorities via the Taylor report admitted that it wasn't down to the fans.

 

The problem with the police attitude towards the fans then was that they couldn't get past an entrenched view of fans as nothing but troublemakers. This is reflected in the Sun's front page the day after a major disaster at the semi-final of a high profile football tournament - they couldn't get past the "it's all the fans' fault" angle. It's a shame to read people still peddling this ridiculous view - one that is grossly insulting to the bereaved families.