Should Owen be dropped?

[Jayson]

The people suggesting midfield is the problem are right - we only have s*** cloggers to go in central midfield and anyone with an ounce of creativity is injured.

 

Therefore, we can't accomodate Owen. Drop the fucker for someone else.

 

like ..................

[dcmk]

The people suggesting midfield is the problem are right - we only have s*** cloggers to go in central midfield and anyone with an ounce of creativity is injured.

 

Therefore, we can't accomodate Owen. Drop the fucker for someone else.

[KaKa]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

 

Id go for the guy who can score goals using magical mind powers, but we dont have that either so we'll have to stick with guy #1 wont we.

 

Owen should stay in the team yes.

 

However when people start talking baout him going to Arsenal or Man U next season I just find such things perplexing.

 

The thought of Wenger playing Owen ahead of the likes of Adebayor, Van Persie, Eduardo ...

 

I mean come on!

[Guest BooBoo]

With us having the worst midfield known to man who contribute no goal threat whatsoever, our fate lies in the hands of Owen and Awfulfemi.

 

And what a depressing thought that is. Two blokes who a) couldn't give a damn whether we stay up or not because we wont see them for dust come June regardless and b) are about as threatening in attack as Dads Army's Private Godfrey.

[manorpark]

With us having the worst midfield known to man who contribute no goal threat whatsoever, our fate lies in the hands of Owen and Awfulfemi.

 

And what a depressing thought that is. Two blokes who a) couldn't give a damn whether we stay up or not because we wont see them for dust come June regardless and b) are about as threatening in attack as Dads Army's Private Godfrey.

 

That is VERY UNFAIR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

on Private Godfrey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(PS, who is Private Godfrey?)

[Dave]

The people suggesting midfield is the problem are right - we only have s*** cloggers to go in central midfield and anyone with an ounce of creativity is injured.

 

Therefore, we can't accomodate Owen. Drop the fucker for someone else.

 

like ..................

 

Lovenkrands? Could just throw them all up there.

[Guest BooBoo]

With us having the worst midfield known to man who contribute no goal threat whatsoever, our fate lies in the hands of Owen and Awfulfemi.

 

And what a depressing thought that is. Two blokes who a) couldn't give a damn whether we stay up or not because we wont see them for dust come June regardless and b) are about as threatening in attack as Dads Army's Private Godfrey.

 

That is VERY UNFAIR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

on Private Godfrey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(PS, who is Private Godfrey?)

 

The very old and feeble one from Dad's Army. I'd stick up a pciture but i can't be fussed.

[Jayson]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

 

Id go for the guy who can score goals using magical mind powers, but we dont have that either so we'll have to stick with guy #1 wont we.

 

Owen should stay in the team yes.

 

However when people start talking baout him going to Arsenal or Man U next season I just find such things perplexing.

 

The thought of Wenger playing Owen ahead of the likes of Adebayor, Van Persie, Eduardo ...

 

I mean come on!

 

Still debatable, depends really on the ability of the team. It could be argued that if you're a side that passes nicely, Owen is more likely to get more chances as his movement is better than Adebayors. Not something we could compare unless Owen was in a side as capable as Arsenal really.

[Ronaldo]

The question HAS to be, what have seen of Owen recently, ie in the last 8 games or so, to suggest that he'll be effective for the remainder of the season

 

we've seen fuck all, no goals, no passion, no graft, nowt. After every game most of us are saying the same thing, Owen did nowt, it might have been better had he not started. Surely it's now more of a gamble to play him from that start than not to

[Jayson]

The people suggesting midfield is the problem are right - we only have s*** cloggers to go in central midfield and anyone with an ounce of creativity is injured.

 

Therefore, we can't accomodate Owen. Drop the fucker for someone else.

 

like ..................

 

Lovenkrands? Could just throw them all up there.

 

Well id play him, wouldnt replace Owen with him though. Hes missed worse sitters than Owen...i remember two quite clearly that were far easier than Owens yesterday.

[Guest BooBoo]

I'm sure Owen is chomping at the bit for Sunday.

 

How the mighty have fallen, comes to mind.

[Ronaldo]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

 

Id go for the guy who can score goals using magical mind powers, but we dont have that either so we'll have to stick with guy #1 wont we.

 

Owen should stay in the team yes.

 

However when people start talking baout him going to Arsenal or Man U next season I just find such things perplexing.

 

The thought of Wenger playing Owen ahead of the likes of Adebayor, Van Persie, Eduardo ...

 

I mean come on!

 

Still debatable, depends really on the ability of the team. It could be argued that if you're a side that passes nicely, Owen is more likely to get more chances as his movement is better than Adebayors. Not something we could compare unless Owen was in a side as capable as Arsenal really.

 

now you're just talking absolute nonsense, he'd get nowhere near an attack like Arsenal's

[Dave]

The people suggesting midfield is the problem are right - we only have s*** cloggers to go in central midfield and anyone with an ounce of creativity is injured.

 

Therefore, we can't accomodate Owen. Drop the fucker for someone else.

 

like ..................

 

Lovenkrands? Could just throw them all up there.

 

Well id play him, wouldnt replace Owen with him though. Hes missed worse sitters than Owen...i remember two quite clearly that were far easier than Owens yesterday.

 

It's worth a go though. As ronaldo says above, it's not like Owen's showing overwhelming evidence that he'll get his act together for the upcoming games.

[Jayson]

The question HAS to be, what have seen of Owen recently, ie in the last 8 games or so, to suggest that he'll be effective for the remainder of the season

 

we've seen f*** all, no goals, no passion, no graft, nowt. After every game most of us are saying the same thing, Owen did nowt, it might have been better had he not started. Surely it's now more of a gamble to play him from that start than not to

 

Yesterday he had a chance through on goal & was key in setting up Viduka for a similar chance. He also linked up play quite a few times, though first half he was to deep for me.

 

Think you're one of the few saying no passion/no graft. Please explain why you think Owen is our top scorer this season/last season & who you'd replace him with/why.

[Pilko]

Owen just doesn't give a fuck. He's a mercenary little shit who doesn't care about the club.

[Ronaldo]

The question HAS to be, what have seen of Owen recently, ie in the last 8 games or so, to suggest that he'll be effective for the remainder of the season

 

we've seen f*** all, no goals, no passion, no graft, nowt. After every game most of us are saying the same thing, Owen did nowt, it might have been better had he not started. Surely it's now more of a gamble to play him from that start than not to

 

Yesterday he had a chance through on goal & was key in setting up Viduka for a similar chance. He also linked up play quite a few times, though first half he was to deep for me.

 

Think you're one of the few saying no passion/no graft. Please explain why you think Owen is our top scorer this season/last season & who you'd replace him with/why.

 

Owen is doing nothing, so it's not hard to find a replacement. Carroll or Lovenkrands should have started in his place yesterday, not that i'm massive fans of either, but one will work hard and frighten defenders with pace and the other will at least rough up the less physically capable defenders in the league - Sol Campbell an obvious exception to this.

 

as a footnote to all those who are so confident that Owen is more of a goal threat than the lad, Carroll has scored 3 goals since Owen's last.

[johnnypd]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

[johnnypd]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

[johnnypd]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

I compared those stats because it proves that when Owen does have chances he scores them.  Do you think Rooney having over 10 shots to 1 goal makes him better at finishing?  Why does he take these speculative shots?!  when its obviously not working, that's a terrible stat.

 

Do you think that is a good feature of his game?

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

[johnnypd]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

I compared those stats because it proves that when Owen does have chances he scores them.  Do you think Rooney having over 10 shots to 1 goal makes him better at finishing?  Why does he take these speculative shots?!  when its obviously not working, that's a terrible stat.

 

Do you think that is a good feature of his game?

 

theoretically rooney is a better finisher. think about all the different ways a player can score, rooney can probably pull all of them off, owen can maybe score in two or three different ways. rooney's shots are also more accurate and more powerful than owen's. any stats that show owen's goalscoring record are the result of his superior anticipation, movement and positioning in the box, those are his stand-out elements, not the actual finishing itself. if you think about that goal Martins scored at home to Wigan, he spun around far out and at an angle and blasted it into the far corner. Owen simply wouldnt be able to do that as he's not got the power or placement (neither has Martins most the time tbf), he'd be limited to trying to slip it at a slow pace into the near corner, an easy save for the keeper. his poor finishing limits his ability to score different kinds of goals from different areas. i can't think of many recent owen goals that show good finishing, maybe west ham away, most are what i'd call poacher's goals which, as ive repeatedly said, are more about the work you do before the finish.

[Guest toonlass]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

Its fine spouting statistics mate, but when was the last time Owen scored? How many games ago?