Should Owen be dropped?

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

I compared those stats because it proves that when Owen does have chances he scores them.  Do you think Rooney having over 10 shots to 1 goal makes him better at finishing?  Why does he take these speculative shots?!  when its obviously not working, that's a terrible stat.

 

Do you think that is a good feature of his game?

 

theoretically rooney is a better finisher. think about all the different ways a player can score, rooney can probably pull all of them off, owen can maybe score in two or three different ways. rooney's shots are also more accurate and more powerful than owen's. any stats that show owen's goalscoring record are the result of his superior anticipation, movement and positioning in the box, those are his stand-out elements, not the actual finishing itself.

 

Rooney has a better technique, more creative brain, more flair.  Thats the strengths of his game.

I personally would trust Owen to get on the end of a cross or find space in opposition box and put the ball past the keeper.  At least hit the target.  Given a chance.

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

Its fine spouting statistics mate, but when was the last time Owen scored? How many games ago?

 

He has had about 1 shot in the last 5 appearances?  Newcastle team don't create much, if you aint noticed.

[Guest toonlass]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

Its fine spouting statistics mate, but when was the last time Owen scored? How many games ago?

 

He has had about 1 shot in the last 5 appearances?  Newcastle team don't create much, if you aint noticed.

 

He is part of that team if you hadn't noticed. He needs to do more in the games imo. He damn near makes himself invisible when he wants to. Yes I know that strikers need feeding but they have to make their own chances too. If Owen cannot do that, and depends that much on the rest of the team for all his chances then in a relagation battle we cannot afford to carry him.

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

Its fine spouting statistics mate, but when was the last time Owen scored? How many games ago?

 

He has had about 1 shot in the last 5 appearances?  Newcastle team don't create much, if you aint noticed.

 

He is part of that team if you hadn't noticed. He needs to do more in the games imo. He damn near makes himself invisible when he wants to. Yes I know that strikers need feeding but they have to make their own chances too. If Owen cannot do that, and depends that much on the rest of the team for all his chances then in a relagation battle we cannot afford to carry him.

 

Honestly not disputing that.

Imo needs to be dropped, as midfield is abysmal.

 

Just defending his ability in front of goal.

[ElDiablo]

Totally bottled it yesterday, didn't even look at the goal to see where James was, just hit it and totally fucked it. Should have scored. Wank, fuck off, can't wait to get rid now, same goes for most of them tbf.

[Oakie Doke]

I hope he feels guilty when he leaves.

[Guest toonlass]

I hope he feels guilty when he leaves.

 

He won't. I heard last night that he is going to pick up a hefty bonus when he leaves for seeing out the whole of his contract and this was one of the terms in the contract when he signed for us. Reckon that will make leaving all the sweeter for him.

[dcmk]

Sad thing is, in 2/3 years time if we dont come back up into the Premier League we would be creating threads titled "Does anyone remember.." and in it we would be talking about when we had top international players like Owen, Argentine internationals all that crap, romanticizing the past like we always do.

[Jayson]

The question HAS to be, what have seen of Owen recently, ie in the last 8 games or so, to suggest that he'll be effective for the remainder of the season

 

we've seen f*** all, no goals, no passion, no graft, nowt. After every game most of us are saying the same thing, Owen did nowt, it might have been better had he not started. Surely it's now more of a gamble to play him from that start than not to

 

Yesterday he had a chance through on goal & was key in setting up Viduka for a similar chance. He also linked up play quite a few times, though first half he was to deep for me.

 

Think you're one of the few saying no passion/no graft. Please explain why you think Owen is our top scorer this season/last season & who you'd replace him with/why.

 

Owen is doing nothing, so it's not hard to find a replacement. Carroll or Lovenkrands should have started in his place yesterday, not that i'm massive fans of either, but one will work hard and frighten defenders with pace and the other will at least rough up the less physically capable defenders in the league - Sol Campbell an obvious exception to this.

 

as a footnote to all those who are so confident that Owen is more of a goal threat than the lad, Carroll has scored 3 goals since Owen's last.

 

He isnt doing nothing though as i stated. You cant just make up nonsense and then pretend its reality to fit it into your argument. Carroll looked far more out of it yesterday than Owen did, thats with tired defenders marking him. We've far more chance of scoring with the 3 upfront being viduka, martins & owen...the fact they each had a clear chance yesterday showed that.

 

Lovenkrands would be the most likely to replace him & as i say he's missed far worse sitters. You could say he makes up for it with his improvement in pace, but i have yet to see why this would offer us anything extra in a 4-3-3 formation which yesterday showed is clearly our most effective as our midfielders are useless so the less of them the better.

[Jayson]

Its all kneejerkin gthis hate against owen, hes our top scorer as i say. Without him we'd be in a far worse position this season, the fact that hes our top scorer would suggest that we have no one better at scoring goals...yet its all his fault.

 

Not very logical. Its far more the fault of Butt, Nolan, Geremi, Colo, Rtaylor than it is anyone else. Theyre the lads who have been bringing us down, not our strikers...let alone Owen.

[dcmk]

Its all kneejerkin gthis hate against owen, hes our top scorer as i say. Without him we'd be in a far worse position this season, the fact that hes our top scorer would suggest that we have no one better at scoring goals...yet its all his fault.

 

Not very logical. Its far more the fault of Butt, Nolan, Geremi, Colo, Rtaylor than it is anyone else. Theyre the lads who have been bringing us down, not our strikers...let alone Owen.

 

Indeed when he goes to a team that are creating three times the number of chances we are, and he is scoring 3 times as many goals.  We will realise what we had.

[Guest toonlass]

we have a £17 million striker who gets into the team whether he is scoring or not, who is as mercenary as they come. Who is only our top striker because our owner doesnt have the ambition or the intelligence to have bought some decent players in the windows since he has been here. Of course Owen isnt solely to blame but surely he cannot be proud of some of the lackluster performances he has put in. And this isnt a kneejerk reaction cos I have been commenting on Owen's performances for what seems like eons.

[johnnypd]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Its all kneejerkin gthis hate against owen, hes our top scorer as i say. Without him we'd be in a far worse position this season, the fact that hes our top scorer would suggest that we have no one better at scoring goals...yet its all his fault.

 

Not very logical. Its far more the fault of Butt, Nolan, Geremi, Colo, Rtaylor than it is anyone else. Theyre the lads who have been bringing us down, not our strikers...let alone Owen.

 

One place worse?? Two? 

[TaylorJ_01]

Its all kneejerkin gthis hate against owen, hes our top scorer as i say. Without him we'd be in a far worse position this season, the fact that hes our top scorer would suggest that we have no one better at scoring goals...yet its all his fault.

 

Not very logical. Its far more the fault of Butt, Nolan, Geremi, Colo, Rtaylor than it is anyone else. Theyre the lads who have been bringing us down, not our strikers...let alone Owen.

 

Indeed when he goes to a team that are creating three times the number of chances we are, and he is scoring 3 times as many goals.  We will realise what we had.

 

I agree with this 

[TRon]

Its all kneejerkin gthis hate against owen, hes our top scorer as i say. Without him we'd be in a far worse position this season, the fact that hes our top scorer would suggest that we have no one better at scoring goals...yet its all his fault.

 

Not very logical. Its far more the fault of Butt, Nolan, Geremi, Colo, Rtaylor than it is anyone else. Theyre the lads who have been bringing us down, not our strikers...let alone Owen.

 

Geremi has hardly figured this season, not really sure why you have included him in the list. If anything he has done well in his last two games compared to the sorry figures who have figured before or since.

 

 

[Guest neesy111]

Its all kneejerkin gthis hate against owen, hes our top scorer as i say. Without him we'd be in a far worse position this season, the fact that hes our top scorer would suggest that we have no one better at scoring goals...yet its all his fault.

 

Not very logical. Its far more the fault of Butt, Nolan, Geremi, Colo, Rtaylor than it is anyone else. Theyre the lads who have been bringing us down, not our strikers...let alone Owen.

 

like that fact he' only scored 8 league goals, not like if someone else had played the 25 leagues could of scored 5 or 6 in his place

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season.

 

A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team.  He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals.  Like a good goalscorer does. 

 

How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him.  Finishing isnt about long range shots at all.  If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic!  but apparently true.  Finishes alot of moves that boy.

 

[TRon]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season.

 

A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team.  He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals.  Like a good goalscorer does. 

 

How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him.  Finishing isnt about long range shots at all.  If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic!  but apparently true.  Finishes alot of moves that boy.

 

 

Makes you wonder why Man U didn't buy Owen rather than sign the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov. Fergie obviously hasn't got a clue.

 

 

[dcmk]

Thinking about it also, if Owen is completely incapable of playing for a big European team, how can Inzaghi still be doing what he dooes, when he has the exact same limitations as a player, Owen being more intelligent as well imo.

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season.

 

A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team.  He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals.  Like a good goalscorer does. 

 

How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him.  Finishing isnt about long range shots at all.  If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic!  but apparently true.  Finishes alot of moves that boy.

 

 

Makes you wonder why Man U didn't buy Owen rather than sign the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov. Fergie obviously hasn't got a clue.

 

 

 

They all can/have score, create, work rate, stand out qualities. 

[johnnypd]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season.

 

A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team.  He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals.  Like a good goalscorer does. 

 

How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him.  Finishing isnt about long range shots at all.  If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic!  but apparently true.  Finishes alot of moves that boy.

 

 

using your own definition of finishing completely rubbishes the basis of your entire argument, those shots to goals stats don't show 'finishing' as you understand it, they show all shots, whether they are 'finishes' or not, 30 yarders, lobs, volleys, headers. everything. as i said, you're clueless as to what those stats show and how to read them for meaning.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

I retract my earlier defence of Owen after that Portsmouth performance. He looked a shadow of the player he was at the end of last season, he's had games to get fit and he was working hard and still failed to make any tangible impact other than missing a sitter.

[dcmk]

Wayne Rooney - 109 shots, 9 goals. is Owen a better finisher than him, too? Cristiano Ronaldo - 177 shots, 19 goals. Obviously Owen's shooting is far better than Ronaldo's.

 

ffs basing your argument on statistics is IDIOTIC if you have no idea what those stats show or why they show it. In terms of pure finishing Ronaldo is probably the best in the world, the power and accuracy he gets in his shots is perhaps unprecedented. in terms of pure finishing michael owen has absolutely f*** all power and poor to average placement. you have to question why he has taken so few shots - it is because his finishing is not good enough for him to attempt any shot other than those which are put on a plate for him. and even then he misses most of them. and anyway even when he was in his prime his goalscoring was far, far more to do with his positioning, anticipation and movement in the box than about the way his boot hit the ball, which was only ever half-decent back then and is now, having lost the power in his legs, average to poor.

 

What?  That post is idiotic.  Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible.

 

I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example.

 

stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4.

 

put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players.

 

All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show.

 

You think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control.  Not speculative shots.  Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

 

yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them.

 

obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good.

 

When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then?  Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

 

yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them.

 

Your argument is a mess.

Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games.  Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle.  If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? 

 

Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??   

 

yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season.

 

A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team.  He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals.  Like a good goalscorer does. 

 

How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him.  Finishing isnt about long range shots at all.  If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic!  but apparently true.  Finishes alot of moves that boy.

 

 

using your own definition of finishing completely rubbishes the basis of your entire argument, those shots to goals stats don't show 'finishing' as you understand it, they show all shots, whether they are 'finishes' or not, 30 yarders, lobs, volleys, headers. everything. as i said, you're clueless as to what those stats show and how to read them for meaning.

 

How does it rubbish my argument?  It started off with shots on target to goals scored.  From his attempts to goals, it showed had better rate than the players he seemingly weren't more clinical than him.

 

How you define finishing is completely wrong imo.  What those players have to their game is better technique but are not better strikers instincts of a natural born finisher.

[Guest Phil K]

A gun won't fire without bullets.

Our midfield is a dearth of ideas

As has been said, he would have scored plenty with a decent side.

He's not half the striker he was though, at the same time.