Should Owen be dropped?

[junkhead]

fuck all that crap man, Owen is finished and Martins at his worst, loaded on acid, is ten times better.

[dcmk]

Kaka do you think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

Imo its composure, technique, awareness, intelligence, ball control.

 

A top finisher is someone who can put the ball in the back of the net in a variety of ways. The more ways a player is able to do this consistently the more dangerous they are and the more of an accomplished striker this person is. Perfect example Alan Shearer.

 

Owen right now is only capable of occassionally putting away chances in the box. Not a top finisher.

 

So when people were getting on about Arsenal needing a goal scorer in recent years, you didnt agree.  You thought their line up + Bendtner, Diaby were the answer?  They didnt miss a player like Owen who comes a live when the ball is in the box.  When ball gets crossed through six yard noone is ever there for them, everyone is outside the box.  Thats good awareness/intelligence to you?.. not getting on the end of chances?  That makes you a good finisher??

[Jayson]

No idea what the general arguments are here...but dont think we can blame Owen for much yesterday. Even the best strikers are going to struggle when they havent had a goalscoring opportunitys for endless games...hard to expect them to suddenly put in the 1 chance theyve had in the last 12 games theyve played. He was probably suprised to even have a chance, let alone the pressure that goes with that. The same for Martins tbh..

 

They're just desperate to score & not showing the same composure as they usually could. To much pressure, they just gotta handle it. The more chances we give them the more likely theyll be to achieve that, it isnt really about ability at this point.

 

You what?

 

You've been saying for weeks that we need to stick by him because he's the one who's going to put that chance away. Now he f***s it up and it's alright because he's not scored in a while?

 

No ive been saying hes our best chance at putting those chances away, he still is. Yesterday didnt change anything as they all showed they'll miss given an opportunity. I wish it was different obviously, reality might be that even with owen being our best chance at goals....we still wont get very many.

[KaKa]

Owen is a decent player, he's just not what we need right now as he offers little to the cause. Take Viduka, he's big and strong, he'll hold the ball and bring other players into play. Martins is quick and good in the air he frightens defenders if nothing else. If I was a defender playing Owen at the minute I'd be rubbing my hands together.

 

Owen's game is about movement. He's the man who's always in the right place at the right time to tap in the easy chance. He isn't physically strong or quick, but he's good at what he does. In a team like Stoke where the ball is constantly in play in the box he'd thrive. Crosses, long balls, second balls he'd have a field day, sooner or later he'd get on the end of one of them.

 

The problem with Owen now is he's lost some of his sharpness probably due the immense amount of injuries he's suffered. This means if he's getting regular service he'll get you a goal but he'll probably waste two or three good goal scoring chances. This is the problem for Newcastle. Because our midfield has zero creativity the strikers get very few chances so they have to create their own. Both Viduka and Martins have the physical attributes to do this but Owen doesn't. So when the gold nugget of a cross finally falls out the midfields arse he's been spaffing it away.

 

Another problem is because the crap-tastic midfield sit so deep and provide no service for the strikers they are forced to drop deep. You see Martins and Owen do this reguarly. Now where as Martins has a bit of pace and can take someone from deep Owen can't. His only real attribute is his movement in the box, if he isn't in the box what good is he doing?

 

At the end of the day Owen's goal scoring problems arise from poor service and a lack of self sufficiency. He's a good player if you have a creative midfield but we don't. Add this to the fact that he's fluffing the rare chances he is getting and he's nothing more than a one dimensional passenger who contributes little to the team, one who'd I'd drop at this moment in time (even if it would boil piss paying him the money he is on to sit on the bench).

 

Very good post.

 

Yes you can say in an ideal world Owen would score goals under the conditions youhave spoken about and this may well be the case. However, my argument is that this type of striker in today's game is just not good enough and will not be accomodated by any of the top teams. Way too one dimensional.

 

You never take such a player as Owen over any of those Arsenal strikers who will all score just as many goals as Owen in a greater variety of ways and will also throw in an abundance of assists also and a greater contribution tot he teams play.

 

 

[dcmk]

Owen is a decent player, he's just not what we need right now as he offers little to the cause. Take Viduka, he's big and strong, he'll hold the ball and bring other players into play. Martins is quick and good in the air he frightens defenders if nothing else. If I was a defender playing Owen at the minute I'd be rubbing my hands together.

 

Owen's game is about movement. He's the man who's always in the right place at the right time to tap in the easy chance. He isn't physically strong or quick, but he's good at what he does. In a team like Stoke where the ball is constantly in play in the box he'd thrive. Crosses, long balls, second balls he'd have a field day, sooner or later he'd get on the end of one of them.

 

The problem with Owen now is he's lost some of his sharpness probably due the immense amount of injuries he's suffered. This means if he's getting regular service he'll get you a goal but he'll probably waste two or three good goal scoring chances. This is the problem for Newcastle. Because our midfield has zero creativity the strikers get very few chances so they have to create their own. Both Viduka and Martins have the physical attributes to do this but Owen doesn't. So when the gold nugget of a cross finally falls out the midfields arse he's been spaffing it away.

 

Another problem is because the crap-tastic midfield sit so deep and provide no service for the strikers they are forced to drop deep. You see Martins and Owen do this reguarly. Now where as Martins has a bit of pace and can take someone from deep Owen can't. His only real attribute is his movement in the box, if he isn't in the box what good is he doing?

 

At the end of the day Owen's goal scoring problems arise from poor service and a lack of self sufficiency. He's a good player if you have a creative midfield but we don't. Add this to the fact that he's fluffing the rare chances he is getting and he's nothing more than a one dimensional passenger who contributes little to the team, one who'd I'd drop at this moment in time (even if it would boil piss paying him the money he is on to sit on the bench).

 

Very good post.

 

Yes you can say in an ideal world Owen would score goals under the conditions youhave spoken about and this may well be the case. However, my argument is that this type of striker in today's game is just not good enough and will not be accomodated by any of the top teams. Way too one dimensional.

 

You never take such a player as Owen over any of those Arsenal strikers who will all score just as many goals as Owen in a greater variety of ways and will also throw in an abundance of assists also and a greater contribution tot he teams play.

 

 

 

I'm stopping this, you have completely changed argument now.  Hopefully it because you realized it was wrong in the first place.

[Jayson]

Still think you lot writing him off are talking nonsense. Your basing it all on him being in a s**** team, just like martins, with crap service for game after game after game compounded with apparently s*** doctors at the club hampering any return from injury.

 

Reality is Owen scored something like 7 in 9 end of last season. He wasnt missing 3 for every goal he got, he just scored over and over with every chance. Same earlier this season tbh.

Now he's started missing more yes, that doesnt prove hes miraculously turned into a useless player. Just a dip of form, as any player. Not suprising when he barely touches the ball in games which as many agree is because our teams passing ability is woeful.

 

We hoped that when he finally got a chance hed be back to his best, reality is probably that he needs to be brought back into it a bit more & given more confidence before he gets back to where he was at...just like last season. He needs consistant service, not 1 chance in 9.

[KaKa]

Kaka do you think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

Imo its composure, technique, awareness, intelligence, ball control.

 

A top finisher is someone who can put the ball in the back of the net in a variety of ways. The more ways a player is able to do this consistently the more dangerous they are and the more of an accomplished striker this person is. Perfect example Alan Shearer.

 

Owen right now is only capable of occassionally putting away chances in the box. Not a top finisher.

 

So when people were getting on about Arsenal needing a goal scorer in recent years, you didnt agree.  You thought their line up + Bendtner, Diaby were the answer?  They didnt miss a player like Owen who comes a live when the ball is in the box.  When ball gets crossed through six yard noone is ever there for them, everyone is outside the box.  Thats good awareness/intelligence to you?.. not getting on the end of chances?  That makes you a good finisher??

 

Arsenal's best finisher is Eduardo. Scores these poacher goals you talk about Owen scoring but will also fire one in from outside the box if you give him space, and he will do this with either foot. He will also score with Headers. He will also get you assists. he will go past people and open up defences. he will contribute to general play.

 

I just don't know what else to say really.

 

Arsenal generally do not have a problem scoring goals when all of their strikers have been fit to answer your question more directly. In the occassional games when they are facing teams who have 12 people in their box they do come unstuck but you are overstating these instances greatly.

[dcmk]

Kaka do you think finishing is 30 yard shots?

 

Imo its composure, technique, awareness, intelligence, ball control.

 

A top finisher is someone who can put the ball in the back of the net in a variety of ways. The more ways a player is able to do this consistently the more dangerous they are and the more of an accomplished striker this person is. Perfect example Alan Shearer.

 

Owen right now is only capable of occassionally putting away chances in the box. Not a top finisher.

 

So when people were getting on about Arsenal needing a goal scorer in recent years, you didnt agree.  You thought their line up + Bendtner, Diaby were the answer?  They didnt miss a player like Owen who comes a live when the ball is in the box.  When ball gets crossed through six yard noone is ever there for them, everyone is outside the box.  Thats good awareness/intelligence to you?.. not getting on the end of chances?  That makes you a good finisher??

 

Arsenal's best finisher is Eduardo. Scores these poacher goals you talk about Owen scoring but will also fire one in from outside the box if you give him space, and he will do this with either foot. He will also score with Headers. He will also get you assists. he will go past people and open up defences. he will contribute to general play.

 

I just don't know what else to say really.

 

Arsenal generally do not have a problem scoring goals when all of their strikers have been fit to answer your question more directly. In the occassional games when they are facing teams who have 12 people in their box they do come unstuck but you are overstating these instances greatly.

 

Nope.

 

Fulham

Hull

Fenerbahce

Villa

Sunderland x2(lost one didnt they?)

Stoke

 

all of top of my head.

[Ronaldo]

Far too many people on here ignoring the fact even Michael Owen at his best gives you little else but goals

 

The same people will come out with nonsense like '1 in 3 is pretty good' when it clearly isn't for such a player

[Pilko]

Still think you lot writing him off are talking nonsense. Your basing it all on him being in a s**** team, just like martins, with crap service for game after game after game compounded with apparently s*** doctors at the club hampering any return from injury.

 

Reality is Owen scored something like 7 in 9 end of last season. He wasnt missing 3 for every goal he got, he just scored over and over with every chance. Same earlier this season tbh.

Now he's started missing more yes, that doesnt prove hes miraculously turned into a useless player. Just a dip of form, as any player. Not suprising when he barely touches the ball in games which as many agree is because our teams passing ability is woeful.

 

We hoped that when he finally got a chance hed be back to his best, reality is probably that he needs to be brought back into it a bit more & given more confidence before he gets back to where he was at...just like last season. He needs consistant service, not 1 chance in 9.

 

Yes, Coloccini had a dip in form, didn't he? And he was dropped for Edgar at Stoke.

Ameobi had a shit game at Stoke and he hasn't figured since, wasn't even on voyage yesterday.

 

Do you see why people don't agree? Owen is still living off that late-season surge under Keegan. It's fair enough to say players have a dip in form - but we can't afford to accomodate it at the moment. We're on a knife edge and can't afford to carry passengers.

 

I agree with you that he isn't finished btw, just find it baffling how you think he'll find some form. He won't, not this season.

[Jayson]

Far too many people on here ignoring the fact even Michael Owen at his best gives you little else but goals

 

The same people will come out with nonsense like '1 in 3 is pretty good' when it clearly isn't for such a player

 

Apart from last season when he was linking up play just like yesterday when he set up viduka. Nonsense.

[Ronaldo]

9 good games under Keegan, 7 good games under Souness. 16 effective games in 4 years leading people to believe that Owen will 'come good eventually'

 

absolutely pathetic. People dont want to admit that it's the patches with goals that are the exception, not the rule

[Dave]

Owen could potentially be much more useful to us coming on against tired defenders with 15mins left or something, IF instructed to just sit on the edge of the box and wait for a chance rather than moving about too much.

 

This relies on a number of problematic issues of course, such as having some late pressure unlike last night.

[Jayson]

Still think you lot writing him off are talking nonsense. Your basing it all on him being in a s**** team, just like martins, with crap service for game after game after game compounded with apparently s*** doctors at the club hampering any return from injury.

 

Reality is Owen scored something like 7 in 9 end of last season. He wasnt missing 3 for every goal he got, he just scored over and over with every chance. Same earlier this season tbh.

Now he's started missing more yes, that doesnt prove hes miraculously turned into a useless player. Just a dip of form, as any player. Not suprising when he barely touches the ball in games which as many agree is because our teams passing ability is woeful.

 

We hoped that when he finally got a chance hed be back to his best, reality is probably that he needs to be brought back into it a bit more & given more confidence before he gets back to where he was at...just like last season. He needs consistant service, not 1 chance in 9.

 

Yes, Coloccini had a dip in form, didn't he? And he was dropped for Edgar at Stoke.

Ameobi had a s*** game at Stoke and he hasn't figured since, wasn't even on voyage yesterday.

 

Do you see why people don't agree? Owen is still living off that late-season surge under Keegan. It's fair enough to say players have a dip in form - but we can't afford to accomodate it at the moment. We're on a knife edge and can't afford to carry passengers.

 

I agree with you that he isn't finished btw, just find it baffling how you think he'll find some form. He won't, not this season.

 

Colocinnis dip lasted the whole season, yesterdays performance was the first time i thought he looked half decent. The only time ive ever seen him win an actual header also, i was amazed.

 

Ameobi consistantly got the ball, his control was just woeful....we should have been playing to his strengths for a lad that size. He doesnt have any strengths being the problem.

 

Yesterday for the first time we started playing more to owens, fair enough he had a chance and missed it, i still think we give him that again hes more likely to put it in that anyone else. I wouldnt put Carroll, Viduka, Martins over him in that 1 on 1 with the keeper even after yesterday. Owens finishing is of higher quality, hes shown that before. He still more likely to come up with the finish. I agree with others that he needs to be given more chances to do this, but not because he'll never score unless he has endless chances.....just because it'll help him get his efficency back. His composure. Theres no way for a striker to have composure in a situation where your sides in a relegation position 4 games from the end & you have the 1 chance out of 9 games where you could single handedly change your sides predicament. Far far to much pressure there, no human would remain composed....as all of our strikers demonstrated yesterday. Maybe it wont be enough, i wish to fuck it was & we'll have to see. He'll never replace Owen with someone else & i dont blame him.

[Ronaldo]

will you blame him in 4 games?

[KaKa]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

[dcmk]

Still think you lot writing him off are talking nonsense. Your basing it all on him being in a s**** team, just like martins, with crap service for game after game after game compounded with apparently s*** doctors at the club hampering any return from injury.

 

Reality is Owen scored something like 7 in 9 end of last season. He wasnt missing 3 for every goal he got, he just scored over and over with every chance. Same earlier this season tbh.

Now he's started missing more yes, that doesnt prove hes miraculously turned into a useless player. Just a dip of form, as any player. Not suprising when he barely touches the ball in games which as many agree is because our teams passing ability is woeful.

 

We hoped that when he finally got a chance hed be back to his best, reality is probably that he needs to be brought back into it a bit more & given more confidence before he gets back to where he was at...just like last season. He needs consistant service, not 1 chance in 9.

 

Yes, Coloccini had a dip in form, didn't he? And he was dropped for Edgar at Stoke.

Ameobi had a s*** game at Stoke and he hasn't figured since, wasn't even on voyage yesterday.

 

Do you see why people don't agree? Owen is still living off that late-season surge under Keegan. It's fair enough to say players have a dip in form - but we can't afford to accomodate it at the moment. We're on a knife edge and can't afford to carry passengers.

 

I agree with you that he isn't finished btw, just find it baffling how you think he'll find some form. He won't, not this season.

 

Colocinnis dip lasted the whole season, yesterdays performance was the first time i thought he looked half decent. The only time ive ever seen him win an actual header also, i was amazed.

 

Ameobi consistantly got the ball, his control was just woeful....we should have been playing to his strengths for a lad that size. He doesnt have any strengths being the problem.

 

Yesterday for the first time we started playing more to owens, fair enough he had a chance and missed it, i still think we give him that again hes more likely to put it in that anyone else. I wouldnt put Carroll, Viduka, Martins over him in that 1 on 1 with the keeper even after yesterday. Owens finishing is of higher quality, hes shown that before. He still more likely to come up with the finish. I agree with others that he needs to be given more chances to do this, but not because he'll never score unless he has endless chances.....just because it'll help him get his efficency back. His composure. Theres no way for a striker to have composure in a situation where your sides in a relegation position 4 games from the end & you have the 1 chance out of 9 games where you could single handedly change your sides predicament. Far far to much pressure there, no human would remain composed....as all of our strikers demonstrated yesterday. Maybe it wont be enough, i wish to f*** it was & we'll have to see. He'll never replace Owen with someone else & i dont blame him.

 

I generally agree with this.  at your view of Collocini's performances btw

[manorpark]

Michael Owen (scoring goals) is our single best and only real hope of staying up.

 

Having watched him lately, I can understand (and agree with) the FRIGHTENING nature of that thought . . .

 

But, it is TRUE.

[KaKa]

Michael Owen (scoring goals) is our single best and only real hope of staying up.

 

Having watched him lately, I can understand (and agree with) the FRIGHTENING nature of that thought . . .

 

But, it is TRUE.

 

If this is what it comes down to then we are definitely going down.

[dcmk]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

 

Does the first guy become a boot cleaner at Arsenal?

[manorpark]

Michael Owen (scoring goals) is our single best and only real hope of staying up.

 

Having watched him lately, I can understand (and agree with) the FRIGHTENING nature of that thought . . .

 

But, it is TRUE.

 

If this is what it comes down to then we are definitely going down.

 

Perhaps . . . you have just said it.

[KaKa]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

 

Does the first guy become a boot cleaner at Arsenal?

 

When his ratio dwindles to 1 in 13 yes he does and only on a temporary deal byt he way.

[dcmk]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

 

Does the first guy become a boot cleaner at Arsenal?

 

When his ratio dwindles to 1 in 13 yes he does and only on a temporary deal byt he way.

 

1 chance in 7/8 games maybe.  Suggests the problem is more in midfield tbh. 

[Jayson]

Let me just throw an interesting discussion I had the other day out there.

 

Do you take the guy who scores 1 in 2 chances but who on average gets 3 chances a game?

 

Or do you take the guy who scores 1 in 3 but who on average gets 6 chances a game?

 

The second guy right.

 

Okay, so the way I see it the likes of Owen are the first guy while your Adebayors are more akin to the second.

 

Their makeup i.e. their pace, strength leaping ability and presence is going to lead to a far greater percentage of chances coming their way over the course of the game and ultimately they will get you more goals despite the lesser ratio.

 

You have the rare guys who are a lethal combination of both attributes such as Shearer was in his heyday or a Torres today.

 

 

 

Id go for the guy who can score goals using magical mind powers, but we dont have that either so we'll have to stick with guy #1 wont we.

[Pilko]

The people suggesting midfield is the problem are right - we only have shit cloggers to go in central midfield and anyone with an ounce of creativity is injured.

 

Therefore, we can't accomodate Owen. Drop the fucker for someone else.