First team squad for sale if we go down

[manorpark]

You could argue Keegan had them overperforming, considering how they played under Allardyce/Kinnear/Hughton/Shearer so far.

 

They're just s*** man, nearly all living off form from years ago.

 

Yes, I now agree 100% with that.

 

Its awful, really awful, but true.

 

We have wasted all that we built under KK (first time) and Sir Bobby.  All gone, no heritage left to build on.

[Teasy]

Yes we could argue that kind of thing all day as nobody can prove how much is ability and how much is effort.  But one thing we know is they CAN play much better (Keegan had much longer to get them sorted thoughy).  Either way to me saying they're all just not good enough is far too kind on them.  In reality they're mostly lazy, uninterested or cowardly.

[Dave]

Yes we could argue that kind of thing all day as nobody can prove how much is ability and how much is effort.  But one thing we know is they CAN play much better (Keegan had much longer to get them sorted thoughy).  Either way to me saying they're all just not good enough is far too kind on them.  In reality they're mostly lazy, uninterested or cowardly.

 

That falls under 'not good enough' though for me. Fucking should with the club too.

 

Look at players like John O'Shea. Not the most talented in the world by a mile but invaluable to clubs like Man Utd because their attitude is spot on and they can bridge the quality gap because of it. Fergie can trust them.

 

Keegan said last summer that we'd be looking to only sign players that were 'right for this club'. Shearer needs to carry that principle on and I think he will if he stays.

 

PS - this isn't advocating signing the likes of Nolan just because they're good lads. There's obviously a balance to be struck if quality can be managed out of players. Again, Shearer should have learnt this from Robson.

[manorpark]

Yes we could argue that kind of thing all day as nobody can prove how much is ability and how much is effort.  But one thing we know is they CAN play much better (Keegan had much longer to get them sorted thoughy).  Either way to me saying they're all just not good enough is far too kind on them.  In reality they're mostly lazy, uninterested or cowardly.

 

What I am saying is that 'maybe' some of them were capable of playing better once.  But NOT now. They have proved that (ONE simple example being they LOST to Fulham, when they HAD to win, and would have if any of them had been recently only underperforming).

 

They got no points against Fulham, when they (and they all knew this) had to get THREE points.

 

They are now performing to totally their correct/appropriate levels, no more, no less (though 'sometimes' less!).

[Teasy]

Two problems with that argument Manopark.  Firstly it assumes that underperforming players do so simply because they don't think they really need to win.  Second is assumes all of our players actually care if we stay up or not.  Neither is true.

[Mistle17]

I hope Edgar stays.

[manorpark]

That argument doesn't work mate.  Firstly it assumes that underperforming players do so simply because they don't think they really need to win.  Second is assumes all of our players actually care if we stay up or not.  Neither is neccesarily true at all.

 

Really?

 

I just think they are individaually and collectively (proven to be) NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

[Teasy]

Yes, form doesn't improve purely because a player thinks the team really needs a win  Also there's no chance that all of our players are commited to the cause.  There's no way to rule out lack of form or effort with a number of our players and its a certainty that those issues will be affecting some of them.

 

I agree they aren't good enough but not for the reason you're saying.  Some of them have the ability to play much better but haven't for a number of reasons.

[Guest Magpiecn]

None ofplayer is loyal enough  to play for a club.

[manorpark]

Yes really.  Form doesn't just change based on wether a player thinks the team really needs a win or not, its just not that easy.  Also there's no chance at all that all of our players are commited to the cause.

 

OK, "form doesn't change JUST based on whether a player thinks the team needs to win, etc, etc".

 

BUT, that is certsainly one very very major factor. The old oft-repeated argument about "the real best players often being big match players / producing it when it matters, etc"

 

PLUS,

 

Own self-motivation, which would kick in when a player wants to stay at a club and earn "Premiership" level money (or maintain his reputation, in order to do that elsewhere).

 

Basically, 99.9% of 'underperformance' and 'incentive to the cause' issues (their OWN cause, usually, if not the clubs) would be impacted on to cause better performances to occur in the situation we are now in - IF 'underperformance' had anything to do with it.

 

Simply, it doesn't.

[Teasy]

That's a very black and white argument, forgive the pun   You're basically saying that if they know they have to win to save the club and they don't they don't have the ability to win.  But that ignores many factors such as players that just don't give two fucks.  Or players who are in very bad form, which isn't usually an issue of lack of effort or motivation.

 

A lot of our players aren't motivated to stay here IMO, they'll all be confident of finding another club either in the Premiership or another big league.  Also I'm not talking about big game players, but instead ability vs form and effort.

 

There's no way every one of our players just don't have the ability to play better.  Its far more likely that some don't have the ability (a lot of them mind you!), some don't care and some are off form.  For all of these reasons the team isn't good enough and most of them need to go ASAP!

[manorpark]

That's a very black and white argument, forgive the pun   You're basically saying that if they know they have to win to save the club and they don't they don't have the ability to win.  But that ignores many factors such as players that just don't give two f***s.  Or players who are in very bad form, which isn't usually an issue of lack of effort or motivation.

 

A lot of our players aren't motivated to stay here IMO, they'll all be confident of finding another club either in the Premiership or another big league.  Also I'm not talking about big game players, but instead ability vs form and effort.

 

There's no way every one of our players just don't have the ability to play better.  Its far more likely that some don't have the ability (a lot of them mind you!), some don't care and some are off form.  For all of these reasons the team isn't good enough and most of them need to go ASAP!

 

Actually, we are not far off agreement!!

 

I used to think exactly as you do now.

 

I just think that (uniquely) this specific crop of players, has proven to me that they are all not good enough (as opposed to what you are saying, I think - 'most of them are not good enough') and that (uniquely) 'underperforming' is (now, here) not a significant factor.  To me, they have PROVED that.

[Teasy]

Well I still don't quite agree but I think we've both made our point and we're both certainly in agreement that the majority of them need to leave as soon as possible.

[afar]

In a sense I'm looking forward very much to Monday, firstly this damn nightmare of the season is over and secondly we'll be able to begin the job of overhauling this god awful set of players. Relegation will of course make it so much easier, but the club still has to get it right. It's no good replacing shit, underperforming, overpaid  players with players in the same mould. Whomever is our manager needs help in identifying the players that will do what this club has never done before and get us straight back up. The manager needs to be backed of course to do this. It's no good Ashley just cutting costs all oover the place because of the loss in revenue, we may need to make a substanial loss next year to have even a hope of getting back, it's not going to be easy though, that's for sure.

[Dave]

Whether we go down or not, major rebuilding is required. As such, the club should look to appoint their permanent manager within weeks if not days of the end of the season.

 

He needs as much time as he can get.

[Decky]

Ashley is a grade A waste of fucking space. Selling players to make up for the financial loss? What the fuck is he going to do when we need replacements? Also if he had of just spent about £10 or £20 mill more in January, we would be nowhere near this mess.

[Guest neesy111]

owen (6 million)

viduka (4 million)

smith (4 million)

barton (4 million)

martins (4.5 million)

colocinni (2 million)

butt (2 million)

duff (4 million)

jonas (3 million)

cacapa (2 million)

geremi (2.5 million)

 

wages saved = around 35 million quid and would be miss them not by much

 

transfer fee's = around 15-20 million, total money saved/made is around 50 million

 

+ transfer fee's in the summer to be recieved are at around 15 million mark

 

this would be my plan of action for the summer and would certainly allow for a team that could win the championship next season

[Guest Magpiecn]

owen (6 million)

viduka (4 million)

smith (4 million)

barton (4 million)

martins (4.5 million)

colocinni (2 million)

butt (2 million)

duff (4 million)

jonas (3 million)

cacapa (2 million)

geremi (2.5 million)

 

wages saved = around 35 million quid and would be miss them not by much

 

transfer fee's = around 15-20 million, total money saved/made is around 50 million

 

+ transfer fee's in the summer to be recieved are at around 15 million mark

 

this would be my plan of action for the summer and would certainly allow for a team that could win the championship next season

But you will never know what Ashley will do.

[afar]

Whether we go down or not, major rebuilding is required. As such, the club should look to appoint their permanent manager within weeks if not days of the end of the season.

 

He needs as much time as he can get.

 

Absofuckinglutely. This is key, there is just so much work to do, there is no time for sitting back mauling things over, having a break, then finally making the decision on who will be the permenant manager some time in late June early July. But why do I get the impression that that's exactly what will happen ?

 

 

[Teasy]

Ashley is a grade A waste of fucking space. Selling players to make up for the financial loss? What the fuck is he going to do when we need replacements?

 

Buy players who aren't all getting between 60 and 115 thousand pounds a week maybe?  Of course we need to sell certain players, how can anyone still disagree with this?  We can't just ignore reality and take a £70 million wage bill into the Championship (not that I'd want most of our players to stay irrespective of their wages).

 

Also he wouldn't have needed to spend £10-£20 million in January.  Had he simply put someone in charge a few months back who wasn't incapable of getting a win (Hughton) or a heart attack waiting to happen (Kinnear) we'd have been ok.

[mrmojorisin75]

Whether we go down or not, major rebuilding is required. As such, the club should look to appoint their permanent manager within weeks if not days of the end of the season.

 

He needs as much time as he can get.

 

Absofuckinglutely. This is key, there is just so much work to do, there is no time for sitting back mauling things over, having a break, then finally making the decision on who will be the permenant manager some time in late June early July. But why do I get the impression that that's exactly what will happen ?

 

'cause that's what always happens with us, pre-ashley and now

 

you can fucking guarantee it, i nice break then fart about sorting the manager which delays any transfer moves and "we all know how hard it is to sign players these days " don't we?

 

feel like i'm back to last summer when i and others were saying we should have key deals sorted ahead of the window opening and was told patience was a virtue, worked out well that time

[Guest neesy111]

Whether we go down or not, major rebuilding is required. As such, the club should look to appoint their permanent manager within weeks if not days of the end of the season.

 

He needs as much time as he can get.

 

Absofuckinglutely. This is key, there is just so much work to do, there is no time for sitting back mauling things over, having a break, then finally making the decision on who will be the permenant manager some time in late June early July. But why do I get the impression that that's exactly what will happen ?

 

 

 

aye i want our team to be signed at the start of the season in time for the 1st game, none of this before the transfer window shuts shit, really players should be signed so that they start pre-season training, that gives you better preparation

[mrmojorisin75]

Whether we go down or not, major rebuilding is required. As such, the club should look to appoint their permanent manager within weeks if not days of the end of the season.

 

He needs as much time as he can get.

 

Absofuckinglutely. This is key, there is just so much work to do, there is no time for sitting back mauling things over, having a break, then finally making the decision on who will be the permenant manager some time in late June early July. But why do I get the impression that that's exactly what will happen ?

 

 

 

aye i want our team to be signed at the start of the season in time for the 1st game, none of this before the transfer window shuts shit, really players should be signed so that they start pre-season training, that gives you better preparation

 

no, no, no, don't you know it's haaaaaard to sign players these days?  it can only be done right before the window, apparently

 

 

[TRon]

In a sense I'm looking forward very much to Monday, firstly this damn nightmare of the season is over and secondly we'll be able to begin the job of overhauling this god awful set of players. Relegation will of course make it so much easier, but the club still has to get it right. It's no good replacing shit, underperforming, overpaid  players with players in the same mould. Whomever is our manager needs help in identifying the players that will do what this club has never done before and get us straight back up. The manager needs to be backed of course to do this. It's no good Ashley just cutting costs all oover the place because of the loss in revenue, we may need to make a substanial loss next year to have even a hope of getting back, it's not going to be easy though, that's for sure.

 

I am in a similar mood, I've started coming to terms with the fact we might be in the Championship next season and the one positive I will take out of it is that a mass clearout will mean I won't have to suffer watching this shower of shite dragging our name through the mud any more. Hell I might even start enjoying football again. That is assuming Ashley either fucks off or lets Shearer rebuild properly.

[sugoinufc]

In a sense I'm looking forward very much to Monday, firstly this damn nightmare of the season is over and secondly we'll be able to begin the job of overhauling this god awful set of players. Relegation will of course make it so much easier, but the club still has to get it right. It's no good replacing s***, underperforming, overpaid  players with players in the same mould. Whomever is our manager needs help in identifying the players that will do what this club has never done before and get us straight back up. The manager needs to be backed of course to do this. It's no good Ashley just cutting costs all oover the place because of the loss in revenue, we may need to make a substanial loss next year to have even a hope of getting back, it's not going to be easy though, that's for sure.

 

I am in a similar mood, I've started coming to terms with the fact we might be in the Championship next season and the one positive I will take out of it is that a mass clearout will mean I won't have to suffer watching this shower of s**** dragging our name through the mud any more. Hell I might even start enjoying football again. That is assuming Ashley either f***s off or lets Shearer rebuild properly.

 

feel the same! really really hope shearer stays on....if we go down and shearer leaves then we could have a problem!He must be the best suited for the job, i guess!