Guest guinness_fiend Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Ok, so Black Sunday was horrible. No-one disputes the fact that we all felt and will continue to feel pain when thinking about our spineless performance yesterday against a team that has been on auto-pilot for the last ten games, as well as embarrassment for the season just gone. The Championship is dire. We may not be a "big" club by definition, but we are certainly one of the most well-supported and passionate clubs in the country. Do we really want to be playing against the likes of QPR, Blackpool and Plymouth next season? The answer is surely an unequivocal "no," but... as the dust settles, does anyone in here think that getting relegated may be a blessing in disguise? In my eyes, we have had four major problems for the last few seasons: 1. The managerial roundabout: any club, regardless of its size and stature, requires stability. In a bid to stop the rot, both Shepherd and Ashley made the mistake of thinking that a new manager could solve all of our worldy woes. Irrespective of whether Shearer stays or not, I believe that we need one manager for the 09/10 season and one that both the players and fans can get behind. I do not want a sexy-football-promoting foreign manager, I simply want someone who can steady the ship, make the right decisions when they count (even if we do not agree with them) and have the balls to seize the indisciplined bull that is NUFC by the horns and guide us back to the Premiership, where we belong. 2. Gutless mercenaries: we currently have on our books a number of players that are either (a) past-it and are happy to pick up an inflated wage packet knowing full well that they are onto a good thing; or (b) are full of their own self-importance and will likely jump ship over the summer. In any case, a fire sale may be just what we need. I would prefer to have a team of Championship-standard players that will sweat blood and guts week-in, week-out for us and grind out results when it matters than have a team of pampered primadonnas who do not have the decency to stand up and be counted when the chips are down. Yesterday's performance was disgusted. We did not deserve to stay up. 3. A lack of leadership: I am not interested in getting involved in a pro- v anti-Ashley (or Shepherd) rant, but I honestly believe that Ashley had the best intentions of the club at heart when he took over the club. Unfortunately, over the last few seasons, it has become obvious that he is far out of his depth and has made some terrible decisions that have not only compunded our problems on the field but also led to the mass discontent of the fans. Given that he has already lost a small fortune trying to realise an ambition/business plan (delete as appropriate) that has now become unobtainable, Ashley may very well sell up in the summer. If he does, we need a chairman who will not allow us to be bent over a barrel and pay over-the-odds for average players and who both understands the passion of the fans and has the business and footballing smarts to give the manager and players the best possible opportunity to make inroads into promotion. 4. "Big" club syndrome: many of us, including myself, have maintained the belief over the last few seasons that either "we are too good to be mid-table" or "we are too good to go down." We were wrong. We need to accept that the club is in need of a complete overhaul and that, as fans, we have been arrogant in our belief that we are one of the top clubs in the country. Come September, we need to exercise patience as the season progresses and give whoever comes the support that they need. I know that I have thrown a number of clichés around already, but Rome wasn't built in a day and we cannot expect all of the damage caused over the years to be undone in a few months. I guess what I am saying, in short (because I know some of you suffer from ADHD), is that (as we have no choice) we should embrace the opportunity to destroy and rebuild the club from scratch and make the most of the opportunity. Sunderland and Hull will get theirs once their players develop ideas above their station and look to move on. Who knows, a season in the Championship might do players like Carroll, Ranger etc. a world of good and help build a team spirit and fort mentality that has been sadly lacking in recent years. Keep the faith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 great chance to rebuild. its what im most excited about. We must get back up within two years tho or we could be stuck here for a while Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Relegation is not "a blessing in disguise" it is absolutely heartbreaking. Yes we will re-build but I'd much rather do it in the Premier. This will set us back years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Relegation is not "a blessing in disguise" it is absolutely heartbreaking. Yes we will re-build but I'd much rather do it in the Premier. This will set us back years. No doubt. Also lets say we were to get back up, it's gonna be such a huge task to actually stay up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Well said. One of things I'm hopeful about it being able to blood lots of youngsters, such as ranger, carrol, krul, kadar etc in a league thats tough but not so uhely different from reserve football. I want hungry players back, I want an exciting group of younger players playing their hearts out for their and the club's futures. Its a setback yes, but we have to look at the positives of our situation. We just need clarification from Ashley about his intentions, then we can try our best to move forward and get back where we know we belong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Relegation is not "a blessing in disguise" it is absolutely heartbreaking. Yes we will re-build but I'd much rather do it in the Premier. This will set us back years. I would disagree. I do not believe that a team can rebuild it the true sense whilst in the Premiership. We need to develop backbone. To quote Mr. Balboa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1tXhJniSEc# Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Relegation is not "a blessing in disguise" it is absolutely heartbreaking. Yes we will re-build but I'd much rather do it in the Premier. This will set us back years. fuck sake. We all know its heartbreaking. we all fucking feel it. No one needs you to tell us. at least some people are trying to be positive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Relegation is not "a blessing in disguise" it is absolutely heartbreaking. Yes we will re-build but I'd much rather do it in the Premier. This will set us back years. No doubt. Also lets say we were to get back up, it's gonna be such a huge task to actually stay up. This, unless we somehow manage to retain our best players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I'd love some Arabs to come buy us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 The Championship is dire. We may not be a "big" club by definition, but we are certainly one of the most well-supported and passionate clubs in the country. Do we really want to be playing against the likes of QPR, Blackpool and Plymouth next season? The answer is surely an unequivocal "no," Lets hope the fans and players alike don't take that attitide into games next season. Leeds, Forest, Sheff Weds, even Man City had exactly the same "we shouldn't be here" attitude and it made it all the more sweeter for the likes of QPR, Blackpool and Plymouth when they beat them. I really do hope the fans drop this soon. Newcastle DO deserve to be playing Championship football I'm afraid. Granted, more people will be watching them, but there are better teams in that league than Newcastle were last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Magpiecn Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I keep telling myself that relegation is far from the worst thing in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 The Championship is dire. We may not be a "big" club by definition, but we are certainly one of the most well-supported and passionate clubs in the country. Do we really want to be playing against the likes of QPR, Blackpool and Plymouth next season? The answer is surely an unequivocal "no," Lets hope the fans and players alike don't take that attitide into games next season. Leeds, Forest, Sheff Weds, even Man City had exactly the same "we shouldn't be here" attitude and it made it all the more sweeter for the likes of QPR, Blackpool and Plymouth when they beat them. I really do hope the fans drop this soon. Newcastle DO deserve to be playing Championship football I'm afraid. Granted, more people will be watching them, but there are better teams in that league than Newcastle were last season. I agree with your point, but you've misinterpreted what I have said (see point four). The rest of my post explains why we need exercise patience and not expect an easy ride. Until we prove otherwise, we have no reason to assume that we are any better than any of the teams we will be playing against next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest westamfan Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Ok, so Black Sunday was horrible. No-one disputes the fact that we all felt and will continue to feel pain when thinking about our spineless performance yesterday against a team that has been on auto-pilot for the last ten games, as well as embarrassment for the season just gone. The Championship is dire. We may not be a "big" club by definition, but we are certainly one of the most well-supported and passionate clubs in the country. Do we really want to be playing against the likes of QPR, Blackpool and Plymouth next season? The answer is surely an unequivocal "no," but... as the dust settles, does anyone in here think that getting relegated may be a blessing in disguise? In my eyes, we have had four major problems for the last few seasons: 1. The managerial roundabout: any club, regardless of its size and stature, requires stability. In a bid to stop the rot, both Shepherd and Ashley made the mistake of thinking that a new manager could solve all of our worldy woes. Irrespective of whether Shearer stays or not, I believe that we need one manager for the 09/10 season and one that both the players and fans can get behind. I do not want a sexy-football-promoting foreign manager, I simply want someone who can steady the ship, make the right decisions when they count (even if we do not agree with them) and have the balls to seize the indisciplined bull that is NUFC by the horns and guide us back to the Premiership, where we belong. 2. Gutless mercenaries: we currently have on our books a number of players that are either (a) past-it and are happy to pick up an inflated wage packet knowing full well that they are onto a good thing; or (b) are full of their own self-importance and will likely jump ship over the summer. In any case, a fire sale may be just what we need. I would prefer to have a team of Championship-standard players that will sweat blood and guts week-in, week-out for us and grind out results when it matters than have a team of pampered primadonnas who do not have the decency to stand up and be counted when the chips are down. Yesterday's performance was disgusted. We did not deserve to stay up. 3. A lack of leadership: I am not interested in getting involved in a pro- v anti-Ashley (or Shepherd) rant, but I honestly believe that Ashley had the best intentions of the club at heart when he took over the club. Unfortunately, over the last few seasons, it has become obvious that he is far out of his depth and has made some terrible decisions that have not only compunded our problems on the field but also led to the mass discontent of the fans. Given that he has already lost a small fortune trying to realise an ambition/business plan (delete as appropriate) that has now become unobtainable, Ashley may very well sell up in the summer. If he does, we need a chairman who will not allow us to be bent over a barrel and pay over-the-odds for average players and who both understands the passion of the fans and has the business and footballing smarts to give the manager and players the best possible opportunity to make inroads into promotion. 4. "Big" club syndrome: many of us, including myself, have maintained the belief over the last few seasons that either "we are too good to be mid-table" or "we are too good to go down." We were wrong. We need to accept that the club is in need of a complete overhaul and that, as fans, we have been arrogant in our belief that we are one of the top clubs in the country. Come September, we need to exercise patience as the season progresses and give whoever comes the support that they need. I know that I have thrown a number of clichés around already, but Rome wasn't built in a day and we cannot expect all of the damage caused over the years to be undone in a few months. I guess what I am saying, in short (because I know some of you suffer from ADHD), is that (as we have no choice) we should embrace the opportunity to destroy and rebuild the club from scratch and make the most of the opportunity. Sunderland and Hull will get theirs once their players develop ideas above their station and look to move on. Who knows, a season in the Championship might do players like Carroll, Ranger etc. a world of good and help build a team spirit and fort mentality that has been sadly lacking in recent years. Keep the faith. I'd love nothing more than to see Newcastle rebuild the club, sadly i think it's too much to ask to do it in 12 weeks. I wish you guys luck though. The fans don't deserve this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 IMO its absolutely essential that we bounce back as quickly as we can. The longer we stay down there, the harder its going to be to properly rebuild the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 IMO its absolutely essential that we bounce back as quickly as we can. The longer we stay down there, the harder its going to be to properly rebuild the club. This. Next season we simply have to bounce back up at all costs. The following season, we have to consolidate our premiership status, and after we can start to look to the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 It's an opportunity to rebuild, but that's all it is. Our house was built on sand but now that it's crumbled, there's no guarantee that the one we're rebuilding will be a fortress. Look at the guy running the club. This is a man who spent hundreds of millions buying a business without even looking at the books. He's compulsive and always will be. With Ashley at the helm, I don't feel confident that this opportunity will be taken. For every opportunity I see a potential pitfall. 1) We are now forced to give younger players a chance. This may be a blessing, either by creating more of a team mentality or discovering hidden talant, OR it may be what keeps us down there for a while as our youth setup is crap. 2) It'll weed out the players who don't care, however, we'll also lose some of those that do, simply because they need or want to play at the highest level. Bear in mind there are mercenaries in the Championship too, and they will prey on a club like ours, famed for handing our long, lucrative contracts. 3) Some players like Taylor, Harper etc will stay and probably excel in the Championship, but we may also have a hard time shifting some players like Smith, who have effectively been out of football for a long time and have failed to recently prove their fitness/quality. Should we fail to move them on, we'll be forced to include them in our first team plans, such are the size of their pay-packets. With them on the wagebill, Ashley will be reluctant to fund moves for other players. In short, we will still be stuck with some of these wasters. It's an opportunity to put things right, but we have to get it right this time. And looking at guy pulling the strings, the guy who landed us here in the first place, I remain deeply worried about our future. I still believe we will not have any sort of stability until we see change at the very top; an owner more committed to the long-term future of the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 IMO its absolutely essential that we bounce back as quickly as we can. The longer we stay down there, the harder its going to be to properly rebuild the club. This. Next season we simply have to bounce back up at all costs. The following season, we have to consolidate our premiership status, and after we can start to look to the future. Absolutely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I wonder if we stayed up how much rebuilding would have been done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Relegation is not "a blessing in disguise" it is absolutely heartbreaking. Yes we will re-build but I'd much rather do it in the Premier. This will set us back years. No doubt. Also lets say we were to get back up, it's gonna be such a huge task to actually stay up. Not if we do things properly. We have a lot of advantages at our disposal compared to every other team that has gone down. We are a debt free club, owed money from various clubs for players like Milner. We will have a reduced wage bill which has eaten into our club by about £50 million, we will have player sales, which could easily get us £20 million, we have a good base of youngsters and we have appeal, the best Chamionship players would want to come to us imo. All we have to do is be smart with the money tbh. If Alan does take over, i can imagine him persuading a few of our senior players to stay for at least 6 months, see how we're doing, if we're doing crap then they can leave, if not then stay for promotion. It is key for me that some players stay, i'd like Enrique to stay, Beye to stay, Guthrie and Viduka on a lower wage. If this is done well, then getting back into the PL won't be hard, and staying there would not be too much of a challenge either, we wouldn't be firing for Europe or anything but isn't that the point in rebuilding. The club needs a change of culture, too long have we been the homeless man's galacticos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I wonder if we stayed up how much rebuilding would have been done. Rebuilding, or just wanton fireselling? If we sold 90% of our squad like everyone has been banging on about, and replaced all of them on whatever budget we end up running on, we'll just get relegated the next season instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Relegation is not "a blessing in disguise" it is absolutely heartbreaking. Yes we will re-build but I'd much rather do it in the Premier. This will set us back years. No doubt. Also lets say we were to get back up, it's gonna be such a huge task to actually stay up. Not if we do things properly. We have a lot of advantages at our disposal compared to every other team that has gone down. We are a debt free club, owed money from various clubs for players like Milner. We will have a reduced wage bill which has eaten into our club by about £50 million, we will have player sales, which could easily get us £20 million, we have a good base of youngsters and we have appeal, the best Chamionship players would want to come to us imo. All we have to do is be smart with the money tbh. If Alan does take over, i can imagine him persuading a few of our senior players to stay for at least 6 months, see how we're doing, if we're doing crap then they can leave, if not then stay for promotion. It is key for me that some players stay, i'd like Enrique to stay, Beye to stay, Guthrie and Viduka on a lower wage. If this is done well, then getting back into the PL won't be hard, and staying there would not be too much of a challenge either, we wouldn't be firing for Europe or anything but isn't that the point in rebuilding. The club needs a change of culture, too long have we been the homeless man's galacticos. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eltsacwen Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Rebuilding in the Premiership is difficult unless you're pretty much certain not to go down. Once you're in a relegation battle the management will deviate from the plan and sack the manager/bring in over the top players to save them. And then start all over again. If we start planning the next season now. Sign Shearer. Get rid of the deadwood. Sign some upcoming players. And if we then get promoted we will not be any worse position a year from now than if we stayed in the Premiership and kept most of our squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Unfortunately, Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias are still in charge. Destroy - Yes Rebuild - doubtful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2009/05/25/sort-this-shambles-plea-to-shearer-72703-23705786/2/ A concerned Shearer told the Chronicle: “The problem this club has got is, whether it’s in this league or not, the other Championship teams have already started preparing. “For example regarding players and everything else. “Newcastle United are already lagging behind. The sooner a decision is made the better for everyone. “It needs to be filled with people who love this club. Newcastle will be a huge scalp for the whole of the Championship. “We’re up against it all ready. We have to get over what happened at Aston Villa. “We need to look at it with a clear head. I will give them my opinion on what is wrong and what needs to be done.” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I wonder if we stayed up how much rebuilding would have been done. I'm pretty sure if given the choice Shearer would rather do his re-building in the Premier. Still, it's history now, we'll just have to get on with it. The one silver lining is that we will probably get players who want to come here for the shirt, not just the money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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