The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Earlier on in this thread people were hyping Young as someone with the potential to be a top player. The young kids are cool until we realise that can't mix it with the big boys. The likes of Henderson, Barkley haven't even played at the business end of the Europa yet. Let alone CL. Let alone the WC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. I think his so called renaissance, and to be fair he has had a good season thus far, is more down to the quality of the Premier League or lack of it than anything else. I always harp on about previous eras when discussing England, and there ain't many that I can think of where Gareth Barry would've been a permanent squad choice. To me he's not much more than a run of the mill player. This part is not true. He's comfortably one of the better CM's in the division. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. On form (ignoring any "plan for the future" stuff) he has a decent case IMO. Not that he's good enough to compete with Spain etc, but we have to pick someone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Earlier on in this thread people were hyping Young as someone with the potential to be a top player. The young kids are cool until we realise that can't mix it with the big boys. The likes of Henderson, Barkley haven't even played at the business end of the Europa yet. Let alone CL. Let alone the WC. Not sure what your point is here? You saying you wouldn't take Barkley/Henderson? We are hardly flushed with options. I'd take both of them over Barry but you seem to say in your next post that he's one of the better players in the division and should go. Obviously we all know this country hypes up players from a young age and very few manage to reach expectations. Nothing new there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Better to take someone young and for them to prove themselves not good enough than play someone already proven to be not good enough in the first instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Earlier on in this thread people were hyping Young as someone with the potential to be a top player. The young kids are cool until we realise that can't mix it with the big boys. The likes of Henderson, Barkley haven't even played at the business end of the Europa yet. Let alone CL. Let alone the WC. Not sure what your point is here? You saying you wouldn't take Barkley/Henderson? We are hardly flushed with options. I'd take both of them over Barry but you seem to say in your next post that he's one of the better players in the division and should go. Obviously we all know this country hypes up players from a young age and very few manage to reach expectations. Nothing new there. My point - there's not point calling a player like Barry crap, then hype up the likes of Henderson in the next sentence (not saying anyone has done exactly that) is counter productive. We need to use less extremes when discussing players. Both will be peripheral if chosen so we might as well go with the younger lad but if we had to rely on one to help get a result in the group stages, it would be Barry over Henderson for me. Henderson's hardly a kid either and is largely dependent on athleticism. I'm not sure how much better he's going to get. FWIW he seems to have it right between the ears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. This is the wrong way to look at it. We should look at what players can offer vs. their limitations rather than just looking at past failures. Lampard and co. where all a part of the midfield that were out passed, out ran, out-thought in that game. If it were up to me, only 1 of those old midfielders would've got any caps after that tournament. But as we've played lads that have gone to 3/4/5 major tournaments and disappointed (Gerrard & Lampard), nobody else should be excluded based on past performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I've never rated Barry, i've never rated Henderson but Henderson over the last year is really winning me over. Especially over the last couple of month and i think he's one of the most improved players in the premiership now. Think he's gone a bit unnoticed by the media in Liverpool's recent form when Suarez/Sturridge takes the headlines but he's been the engine in the midfield. Starting to show the promise he did when at the mackems and under 21 captain. Really do believe he should be on the plane to brazil. If we hold him back for the likes of Gareth Barry then we are never going to get anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Always thought Henderson would come good.... he was written off far too early because he was signed at a bad time. Loads of energy, good technique, can strike a ball, everything he needs as he gains experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. This is the wrong way to look at it. We should look at what players can offer vs. their limitations rather than just looking at past failures. Lampard and co. where all a part of the midfield that were out passed, out ran, out-thought in that game. If it were up to me, only 1 of those old midfielders would've got any caps after that tournament. But as we've played lads that have gone to 3/4/5 major tournaments and disappointed (Gerrard & Lampard), nobody else should be excluded based on past performances. Lampard also scored the 'goal' and hit the bar. Gerrard got the assist in that game. Barry fell over the ball and cost us the 3rd goal then trotted beside Ozil and kind of put a tackle in if you can call it that but merely just bottled it and they scored the 4th. Yes Germany were the far better side in that game and we can count ourselves lucky to be in that game for such a long period but that's what i remember in that game of those 3 and Barry came off by far the worst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Recalling Gareth Barry for the WC would be such an England thing to do. I think his so called renaissance, and to be fair he has had a good season thus far, is more down to the quality of the Premier League or lack of it than anything else. I always harp on about previous eras when discussing England, and there ain't many that I can think of where Gareth Barry would've been a permanent squad choice. To me he's not much more than a run of the mill player. This part is not true. He's comfortably one of the better CM's in the division. Read the whole of the posts Disco and myself made instead of cherry picking it. It explains that the Premier league isn't very good hence why someone as run of the mill as Gareth Barry is rated by some. Fucking Happy Shopper Ronaldo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I still can't forgive Barry for costing us Germany's 3rd and 4th goal at the World Cup. He's now 32 and although he's been in good form for Everton, no way should he be recalled. His chance should have been and gone. Not like he's some former world class midfielder, like a Lampard. His reputation does seem to have been fatally damaged by that game, but the whole team were over-committing forwards in search of an equaliser, and Barry was left in a situation where his lack of pace did get exposed. Trouble is, you could pick holes in all the alternatives. Henderson is perhaps the only candidate with pace, but that anchor position is one that demands experience and he still looks a bit raw to me. And in any case - not that I've seen every Liverpool game, mind - I don't think that's his role at his club, unlike Barry. My other point is that Barry does actually pass the ball well. He's an ex-centre back, and looks it a bit, and I think as a result his technique on the ball is under-appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He's not 'run of the mill' though. He's a good player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He's not 'run of the mill' though. He's a good player In a crap league. At International level, at best, he's run of the mill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I rate Barry - he's a canny player & probably one of the more consistent in the league. I wouldn't have him in the Brazil squad mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Barry was mint last night. Absolutely pinging balls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Barry is past his peak and when he was at his peak he was found wanting at International level. Why on earth is he even in the discussion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Putting together a few good games doesn't make him worthy of an International recall. Are we just choosing to ignore the utter dross he served up at Man City? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He's not 'run of the mill' though. He's a good player In a crap league. At International level, at best, he's run of the mill. based on ability alone there's not much better that we offer. If we bring in alternatives, we have to be content if they are comfortably beaten and we take it as a learning curve. There's no one that plays Barry's role that's any better (who isn't definitely going). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Always thought Henderson would come good.... he was written off far too early because he was signed at a bad time. Loads of energy, good technique, can strike a ball, everything he needs as he gains experience. Totally agree with his, his vision and execution for the pass is what has most impressed me this season. That flick for Sturridge last week was top draw stuff. Full of confidence and in the form of his career. At 23 surely this is the way we should be looking at things, not a 32 year old who has recently got his career back on track. It's competitive for a spot as a winger in the squad from now till June as well. None of them have really stamped their ground on a position. Walcott now injured, Townsend out the picture at Spurs, Lallana still in good form, Lennon playing well, Sterling improving game by game, Ox on return from injury, Young back in the Man Utd team and just playing for Man Utd always boosts your credentials a ton fold. There’s not really much between them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 They play thoroughly different roles for their teams so it's a poor comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 They play thoroughly different roles for their teams so it's a poor comparison. I'd only take Carrick for that role though? Gerrard/Henderson could both cover for Carrick were he to get injured. Barry shouldn't be recalled and it's pathetic if he does. I can deal with Lampard being taken as i know he was at least once world class and offers a lot of valuable experience and has scored goals at that level even if the team itself has failed. Barry has just mustered up shit on the international stage and like I say, those two goals he gave away against Germany were just simply embarrassing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 At the very highest level Gerrard is poor defensively in that role. He doesn't have the legs and he doesn't have the DM's mindset (as exampled by Villa's counter attack goal). Henderson's never a holding player either. Neither Lampard or Gerrard have ever proven world class for England. Lampard's been to 2 world cups and has never scored a goal. With his legs gone is he going to score now? Once again he's not a DM either. If we are going there to try and control games maybe a Carrik/Gerrard partnership might work. But I doubt it At this rate I truly reckon we will get carved open straight down the middle. IMO I thought our CM's did very well against L'pool and there will be better players England will face in those positios come June. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 You seem to be dismissing everyone. We do have to take players, CD? We all know England's chances are very bleak and options are limited with not much class around but we have to take a group. I'm interested in your pool of midfielders now your sticking up for Barry but dismissing Henderson/Lampard etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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