2 Many Referees?

[Neil]

EVERTON will be among the first teams to take part in a new refereeing experiment next season – UEFA's decision to employ two extra assistant referees behind the goal-lines in the Europa League.

 

It means that the Blues, Aston Villa and Fulham will play their European matches with five match officials, all communicating via headsets.

 

The idea was the brainchild of UEFA president, Michel Platini.

 

He has been championing the scheme as an alternative to goal-line technology.

 

The scheme was tested last year in some European under-19 championship games and now Platini plans to extend it.

 

From The Liverpool Echo: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2009/06/13/everton-fc-to-take-part-in-uefa-s-new-five-referee-experiment-100252-23864353/

 

Just seems like a half-arsed step towards goal line technology.

[Kaizero]

I'd rather just get the goal line technology tbh. It's not THAT big a hassle, the refs are wearing headphones anyway ffs.

[Kaizero]

Kudos on the clever title, btw.

[Gash]

I'd rather just get the goal line technology tbh. It's not THAT big a hassle, the refs are wearing headphones anyway ffs.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Extra wages vs one off payments

 

 

 

Guess which is the better option.

[cubaricho]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

[Shak]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Fireworks going off when the ball crosses the line would be about the funniest thing I've ever seen.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Fireworks going off when the ball crosses the line would be about the funniest thing I've ever seen.

 

It pisses all over hearing 'I Feel Good' coming out of a speaker system.

[Shearer9]

Red lights all around the goal like in hockey.

[Shearer9]

Actually I agree with cubaricho about goal line technology, as soon as it's perfected it should be used.  But I'm sure I read something about the testing they'd done with 5 officials where it really cut down on a lot of the chippiness in the penalty areas especially during corners and free kicks.  It really closed the gap between the one set of rules enforced outside the box and one set enforced inside that anyone who has ever played, refereed, coached or watched the game will tell you definitely exists.

[JH]

Christ, they don't even have to go as far as chips in the ball and stuff.

 

What does the fourth official do? Apart from handling substitutions and making sure the two managers don't beat each other up. Get him to sit down next to the dugouts with like 6 monitors with all the camera feeds of the game. If a decision is disputable, he can watch a replay which will take like 10 seconds if that to decide.

 

EDIT: If the Sky Sports commentators can debate a decision's legimitacy within seconds of it happening, than a fourth official can.

[Keefaz]

Actually I agree with cubaricho about goal line technology, as soon as it's perfected it should be used.  But I'm sure I read something about the testing they'd done with 5 officials where it really cut down on a lot of the chippiness in the penalty areas especially during corners and free kicks.  It really closed the gap between the one set of rules enforced outside the box and one set enforced inside that anyone who has ever played, refereed, coached or watched the game will tell you definitely exists.

 

Think that's a valid fear, tbh. I like a bit of argy-bargy in the area and would hate to see the game become even less physical.

[Spider Jerusalem]

So the extra linesmen (fuck the Assistant Referee shit - linesman!) are going to change the face of football - when was the last time a referee consulted a linesman, or a linesman flag for a mistake the referee made rather than just stand there with his flag up his arse.

 

Pointless, shit step, that will be shelved indefinitely after this test.

[merlin]

I'd rather just get the goal line technology tbh. It's not THAT big a hassle, the refs are wearing headphones anyway ffs.

 

Exactly, and notice how Howard Webb used the 4th official to change his decision in the Confed Cup match between Brazil & Egypt last night - Egyptian defender used his arm to clear Brazilian shot off the line & Webb originally awarded a corner to Brazil ; after huge protests from the Brazilians, he was told by the 4th official(over his head-phones) that a pen was the correct decision, and AWARDED one - DESPITE use of replays being supposedly against FIFA rules....!

 

I have always thought that the 4th official SHOULD be used to clear up things like this ; defying technology when it can prevent injustices is simply playing into the hands of fixers.....

[Spider Jerusalem]

Exactly, and notice how Howard Webb used the 4th official to change his decision in the Confed Cup match between Brazil & Egypt last night - Egyptian defender used his arm to clear Brazilian shot off the line & Webb originally awarded a corner to Brazil ; after huge protests from the Brazilians, he was told by the 4th official(over his head-phones) that a pen was the correct decision, and AWARDED one - DESPITE use of replays being supposedly against FIFA rules....!

 

I have always thought that the 4th official SHOULD be used to clear up things like this ; defying technology when it can prevent injustices is simply playing into the hands of fixers.....

 

That's because Howard Webb is a useless wanker, who makes up and ignores the rules to suit himself.  But that's another thread.......

 

The same thing happened in the league earlier on this year, but the referee claimed he was just talking over last night's episode of Causalty or something rather htan getting the 4th officials opinion on a decision.

[Mowen]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Wouldn't that be staggeringly expensive?

 

I think the main problem FIFA or whoever face with implementing this technology is how far down does it go? Surely they can't just give it to the top leagues, so where do you draw the line? If the prem has it, the championship should have, so should leagues one and two, do the conference get it? Below there?

[danswan]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Wouldn't that be staggeringly expensive?

 

I think the main problem FIFA or whoever face with implementing this technology is how far down does it go? Surely they can't just give it to the top leagues, so where do you draw the line? If the prem has it, the championship should have, so should leagues one and two, do the conference get it? Below there?

 

Ideally it would be every game in every league, but the use of hawkeye in tennis and cricket isn't universal and it certainly improves the decision making when it is in use. Why not just prem/champs league/major championships? Cost-wise surely it couldn't cost that much more than those stupid headsets, or the little golf carts they bring on to carry players off the field.

[Shearer9]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Wouldn't that be staggeringly expensive?

 

I think the main problem FIFA or whoever face with implementing this technology is how far down does it go? Surely they can't just give it to the top leagues, so where do you draw the line? If the prem has it, the championship should have, so should leagues one and two, do the conference get it? Below there?

 

Ideally it would be every game in every league, but the use of hawkeye in tennis and cricket isn't universal and it certainly improves the decision making when it is in use. Why not just prem/champs league/major championships? Cost-wise surely it couldn't cost that much more than those stupid headsets, or the little golf carts they bring on to carry players off the field.

True, I really don't understand the logic in use when people say things like "It's too expensive, we can't use it at all levels" or "it undermines the referee"(you hear this all the time, especially with cricket fans, but it hasn't really undermined rugby referees has it?).  The only standard should be 'Is the technology an improvement over the human element?'  If you can answer that in the affirmative, the technology should be used.  Besides, the Premiership is a massive league and small decisions can cost millions of pounds.  Someday, perhaps, every official game played across the globe can be legislated by technology, but for now, if we have a way to get it right, let's use it.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Wouldn't that be staggeringly expensive?

 

I think the main problem FIFA or whoever face with implementing this technology is how far down does it go? Surely they can't just give it to the top leagues, so where do you draw the line? If the prem has it, the championship should have, so should leagues one and two, do the conference get it? Below there?

 

Ideally it would be every game in every league, but the use of hawkeye in tennis and cricket isn't universal and it certainly improves the decision making when it is in use. Why not just prem/champs league/major championships? Cost-wise surely it couldn't cost that much more than those stupid headsets, or the little golf carts they bring on to carry players off the field.

True, I really don't understand the logic in use when people say things like "It's too expensive, we can't use it at all levels" or "it undermines the referee"(you hear this all the time, especially with cricket fans, but it hasn't really undermined rugby referees has it?).  The only standard should be 'Is the technology an improvement over the human element?'  If you can answer that in the affirmative, the technology should be used.  Besides, the Premiership is a massive league and small decisions can cost millions of pounds.  Someday, perhaps, every official game played across the globe can be legislated by technology, but for now, if we have a way to get it right, let's use it.

 

Exactly, the sooner the game gets away from authority, and towards accuracy the better.

[relámpago blanco]

5 ref's is too many, just use video ref's.  As the flight of the conchords would say, "Too many dicks on the dancefloor"

[Exiled in Texas]

Of course technology will be different at different levels of the game - it shouldn't be an issue.  We all understand that at different levels of the game the technology will differ.

 

At low level games you have one center ref, or maybe one referee and two club linesmen.

Then you move up to a three man crew with center ref and two AR.

But the ARs only have regular flags......when you get up to the big leagues they start to use electronic flags, and at the top level they add in 2-way communication.

 

So why shouldn't the top leagues use new goal line technology just because pub teams don't.  As log as it improves the game, then it should be used....and it will permeate down the leagues as far as it is cost effective.

[Shearer9]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Wouldn't that be staggeringly expensive?

 

I think the main problem FIFA or whoever face with implementing this technology is how far down does it go? Surely they can't just give it to the top leagues, so where do you draw the line? If the prem has it, the championship should have, so should leagues one and two, do the conference get it? Below there?

 

Ideally it would be every game in every league, but the use of hawkeye in tennis and cricket isn't universal and it certainly improves the decision making when it is in use. Why not just prem/champs league/major championships? Cost-wise surely it couldn't cost that much more than those stupid headsets, or the little golf carts they bring on to carry players off the field.

True, I really don't understand the logic in use when people say things like "It's too expensive, we can't use it at all levels" or "it undermines the referee"(you hear this all the time, especially with cricket fans, but it hasn't really undermined rugby referees has it?).  The only standard should be 'Is the technology an improvement over the human element?'  If you can answer that in the affirmative, the technology should be used.  Besides, the Premiership is a massive league and small decisions can cost millions of pounds.  Someday, perhaps, every official game played across the globe can be legislated by technology, but for now, if we have a way to get it right, let's use it.

 

Exactly, the sooner the game gets away from authority, and towards accuracy the better.

Not sure why it's like this in football, cricket is the only other sport I can think of where you hear people regularly speak out against technology.  True, the fiasco with hawkeye when England were in the Windies earlier this year is bad, but as long as the effectiveness of the technology comes first, then I think it's fine.  It's actually funny, because cricket and football are the two sports where one (wrong) decision effects the game the most, yet people are so reluctant to use technology in these cases.  If you think about it, these are the only 2 sports where referees or umpires actually have public personas and people know their names enough to talk about them down the pub. 

 

Not really sure why people think this way, I suppose it's just a suspicion of technology to do its job. 

[Guest firetotheworks]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Wouldn't that be staggeringly expensive?

 

I think the main problem FIFA or whoever face with implementing this technology is how far down does it go? Surely they can't just give it to the top leagues, so where do you draw the line? If the prem has it, the championship should have, so should leagues one and two, do the conference get it? Below there?

 

Ideally it would be every game in every league, but the use of hawkeye in tennis and cricket isn't universal and it certainly improves the decision making when it is in use. Why not just prem/champs league/major championships? Cost-wise surely it couldn't cost that much more than those stupid headsets, or the little golf carts they bring on to carry players off the field.

True, I really don't understand the logic in use when people say things like "It's too expensive, we can't use it at all levels" or "it undermines the referee"(you hear this all the time, especially with cricket fans, but it hasn't really undermined rugby referees has it?).  The only standard should be 'Is the technology an improvement over the human element?'  If you can answer that in the affirmative, the technology should be used.  Besides, the Premiership is a massive league and small decisions can cost millions of pounds.  Someday, perhaps, every official game played across the globe can be legislated by technology, but for now, if we have a way to get it right, let's use it.

 

Exactly, the sooner the game gets away from authority, and towards accuracy the better.

Not sure why it's like this in football, cricket is the only other sport I can think of where you hear people regularly speak out against technology.  True, the fiasco with hawkeye when England were in the Windies earlier this year is bad, but as long as the effectiveness of the technology comes first, then I think it's fine.  It's actually funny, because cricket and football are the two sports where one (wrong) decision effects the game the most, yet people are so reluctant to use technology in these cases.  If you think about it, these are the only 2 sports where referees or umpires actually have public personas and people know their names enough to talk about them down the pub. 

 

Not really sure why people think this way, I suppose it's just a suspicion of technology to do its job. 

 

Its fucking ridiculous considering the public put their trust in it to fly them off on holiday every day....whilst 33,000 foot in the air.

[merlin]

I saw a piece on a station here in the States about goal-line technology and there is a company in Japan (go figure!) that has created a technology that I think could be really useful.  There are small (very very small) chips all around the ball and when all of the chips cross the goal line completely, it makes the ref's watch vibrate letting him know that the ball crossed the line.  There are no crazy fireworks or lights or anything, it's small and subtle and does not distract from the game.  Only the refs will know if it crossed the line completely so there can be no debate from either team.  I think it is these kinds of small and unobtrusive technologies that we need to look into implementing into the game.  They don't stop the play or flow of the game and they make sure the game is called correctly.

 

Wouldn't that be staggeringly expensive?

 

I think the main problem FIFA or whoever face with implementing this technology is how far down does it go? Surely they can't just give it to the top leagues, so where do you draw the line? If the prem has it, the championship should have, so should leagues one and two, do the conference get it? Below there?

 

Ideally it would be every game in every league, but the use of hawkeye in tennis and cricket isn't universal and it certainly improves the decision making when it is in use. Why not just prem/champs league/major championships? Cost-wise surely it couldn't cost that much more than those stupid headsets, or the little golf carts they bring on to carry players off the field.

True, I really don't understand the logic in use when people say things like "It's too expensive, we can't use it at all levels" or "it undermines the referee"(you hear this all the time, especially with cricket fans, but it hasn't really undermined rugby referees has it?).  The only standard should be 'Is the technology an improvement over the human element?'  If you can answer that in the affirmative, the technology should be used.  Besides, the Premiership is a massive league and small decisions can cost millions of pounds.  Someday, perhaps, every official game played across the globe can be legislated by technology, but for now, if we have a way to get it right, let's use it.

 

Exactly, the sooner the game gets away from authority, and towards accuracy the better.

Not sure why it's like this in football, cricket is the only other sport I can think of where you hear people regularly speak out against technology.  True, the fiasco with hawkeye when England were in the Windies earlier this year is bad, but as long as the effectiveness of the technology comes first, then I think it's fine.  It's actually funny, because cricket and football are the two sports where one (wrong) decision effects the game the most, yet people are so reluctant to use technology in these cases.  If you think about it, these are the only 2 sports where referees or umpires actually have public personas and people know their names enough to talk about them down the pub. 

 

Not really sure why people think this way, I suppose it's just a suspicion of technology to do its job. 

 

It's because the powers-that-be in the game want to be able to manipulate it ; its all about money...

If a host nation, for example, goes out of the WC too soon, then crowds for the other games will drop and so will revenue - esp for the Governing bodies, who also control referees.....

 

IF for example, FIFA allowed the use of TV technology in domestic games, there is no argument for NOT using it in major tournaments. Also, the TV/media journalists have, in general, a very cosy relationship with football, hence their backing for the status quo ; the only one who has really challenged them about a major corruption issue was Brian Glanville, once of the Sunday Times. Glanville was a very astute journalist with a deep knowledge of world football - he took up the issue of the Lobo-Solti Affair after Derby complained about their treatment by a German ref in a European Cup Semi against Juventus - Brian Clough was particularly annoyed about it...

 

If anyone is interested, they can research it, but basically, Glanville opened a huge can of worms because the Portuguese ref(Lobo) for the second leg in Derby complained to his FA that he had been approached by a Hungarian called Solti to fix the game........after the enquiry, Lobo was, without reason, removed from the list of refs for the 1974 WC.......!