Liam Liam Liam O Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Pancrate looks a poor player having seen a bit more of him since the wonder goal. How many starts has he even had though? Not every player is just good, he doesn't speak a word of English and is new here, I think it would be better to give him some time. Started at Barnsley and was poor and has been poor in every substitute appearance since that goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Pancrate looks a poor player having seen a bit more of him since the wonder goal. How many starts has he even had though? Not every player is just good, he doesn't speak a word of English and is new here, I think it would be better to give him some time. Started at Barnsley and was poor and has been poor in every substitute appearance since that goal. He was s**** when he started at Coventry, missed a sitter as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Am I alone in thinking that Ryan Taylor played well tonight btw? Nope, I think his delivery was good and he offers genuine width. I was wondering all the way through that second half why he was so narrow. Did he get to the byline and cross a ball once all day? The wings are so painfully imbalanced; watching Enrique and Jonas overlap each other to such effect - compared to what was going on down the other flank... hell's teeth. Starting to get frustrated with Simpson n'all. He looks about as timid as AS9 in a boxing ring once he's in that opposition's half. As pissed off and as disgraceful a decision it was to drop Guthrie, i thought that it might be a good chance for Taylor to atleast make a claim for that right side. Thought he fucked it up big-time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Several of Guthries assists have come from him dropping further into the middle anyway, so not sure where it comes from. Probably only 2 or 3 of his assists have come from deep on the wing. As I have said a few times he is right midfielder & not your stereotypical right winger. Do you understand comrade? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Pancrate looks a poor player having seen a bit more of him since the wonder goal. How many starts has he even had though? Not every player is just good, he doesn't speak a word of English and is new here, I think it would be better to give him some time. Started at Barnsley and was poor and has been poor in every substitute appearance since that goal. He was s**** when he started at Coventry, missed a sitter as well. Can't expect the lad to be moving mountains so early on, he hasn't been playing football and is clearly quite rusty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Yada Yada. I know I'm only picking up on a small amount of your post but I thought Smith & Nolan were both diabolical tonight. Their midfield had 60 yards of free space in front of them every time they broke from the back. A 7 was generous for Nolan, probably - but not for Smith i'd say. Derby hardly came here to attack but Smith breaks up the play so well in this division and actually generates some forward momentum. He's meant to play deep - the full-backs have a chance to overlap and he passes the ball in a forward direction. It's good retaining of possession. I honestly don't know what role Nolan plays. "The guy who scores quite a bit" is about the only label i can give him. I thought Smith was appalling when they were playing down our right hand side in the first half and 3 of them were playing triangles around R Taylor and Simpson, but Smith still refused to leave the D on the edge of the 18 yard box to help out or break up those attacks. He is primarily responsible for the fact that we sit too deep and invite teams on because he himself sits too deep when the opposition have the ball. Whether that's as a result of instructions he's been given or a choice he's making himself is another matter though. I don't think Smith has much choice. He's not got the legs to chase the ball further upfield so he stays in position. It looks to me that it is just part of the overall strategy for our rather immobile midfield to get behind the ball and snuff out attacks when they reach the penalty area. In nearly every game I've seen, the opposition has had plenty of possession, time and space - they just don't usually have the ability to take advantage. I'm not very confident about Guthrie and don't see him as the answer. He's skilful but struggles under any kind of physical challenge and when pressured. Barton can give us the boost we need. Is there any news about him? In the Premier League perhaps, but even Smith & Nolan have their uses a level down. I was expecting Guthrie to really come into his own at this lower level, but I feel he's been a real disappointment so far. Obviously he's been shunted out wide, which doesn't help, but he's so easily bullied off the ball and I can see why Hughton hasn't wanted to risk him in the middle. Nolan v Guthrie is a difficult choice rather than an obvious one, I reckon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Several of Guthries assists have come from him dropping further into the middle anyway, so not sure where it comes from. Probably only 2 or 3 of his assists have come from deep on the wing. As I have said a few times he is right midfielder & not your stereotypical right winger. Do you understand comrade? I know what you're saying, but i see no reason why hed be more limited further in field. Tbf ive had a watch of his assists & theyve all been lobs or crosses of some sort. But 3 or 4 are from closer to the middle of the pitch, so he can obviously pick a man out from there still. As ive said before, he can move with the ball also & he'll recieve it wider on the pitch at times still as he actually looks for space unlike others. He'll just be dictating more of the play from the middle for the majority of the game, think itd only help us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Guthrie may lose the ball by being bullied, but Nolan's piss poor passing loses it just as much. It's hard to say whether Guthrie would get as many goals in a central role as he's hardly figured there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Yada Yada. I know I'm only picking up on a small amount of your post but I thought Smith & Nolan were both diabolical tonight. Their midfield had 60 yards of free space in front of them every time they broke from the back. A 7 was generous for Nolan, probably - but not for Smith i'd say. Derby hardly came here to attack but Smith breaks up the play so well in this division and actually generates some forward momentum. He's meant to play deep - the full-backs have a chance to overlap and he passes the ball in a forward direction. It's good retaining of possession. I honestly don't know what role Nolan plays. "The guy who scores quite a bit" is about the only label i can give him. I thought Smith was appalling when they were playing down our right hand side in the first half and 3 of them were playing triangles around R Taylor and Simpson, but Smith still refused to leave the D on the edge of the 18 yard box to help out or break up those attacks. He is primarily responsible for the fact that we sit too deep and invite teams on because he himself sits too deep when the opposition have the ball. Whether that's as a result of instructions he's been given or a choice he's making himself is another matter though. I don't think Smith has much choice. He's not got the legs to chase the ball further upfield so he stays in position. It looks to me that it is just part of the overall strategy for our rather immobile midfield to get behind the ball and snuff out attacks when they reach the penalty area. In nearly every game I've seen, the opposition has had plenty of possession, time and space - they just don't usually have the ability to take advantage. I'm not very confident about Guthrie and don't see him as the answer. He's skilful but struggles under any kind of physical challenge and when pressured. Barton can give us the boost we need. Is there any news about him? In the Premier League perhaps, but even Smith & Nolan have their uses a level down. I was expecting Guthrie to really come into his own at this lower level, but I feel he's been a real disappointment so far. Obviously he's been shunted out wide, which doesn't help, but he's so easily bullied off the ball and I can see why Hughton hasn't wanted to risk him in the middle. Nolan v Guthrie is a difficult choice rather than an obvious one, I reckon. Playing on the wing is totally different in terms of options though. It's far easier to bully someone playing on the edge of the pitch if they aren't suited to beating/going past a man with the touchline in front of them as a cut off point for doing something with the ball. Central midfield is totally different, with options either side of you and usually being in front of the goal as your cut off point. Hughton's treatment of Guthrie has been nothing short of shocking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Am I alone in thinking that Ryan Taylor played well tonight btw? Nope, I think his delivery was good and he offers genuine width. His miss was a shocker though. Enough to make the eyes bleed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Am I alone in thinking that Ryan Taylor played well tonight btw? Nope, I think his delivery was good and he offers genuine width. His miss was a shocker though. Enough to make the eyes bleed. Oh aye. An absolute sitter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir_9 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Am I alone in thinking that Ryan Taylor played well tonight btw? Nope, I think his delivery was good and he offers genuine width. His miss was a shocker though. Enough to make the eyes bleed. Oh aye. An absolute sitter. Some footballers really surprise me when they choose the lower corner or they shoot straight at the kepper during 1-on-1 situations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Caulkin's view of the match - about right as usual imo. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article6969950.ece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 It’s testament to where we are that we have a very disappointed and frustrated dressing room, but the reality is it was a good performance, another clean sheet and another game we haven’t lost at St James’. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Its testament to where we are that we have a very disappointed and frustrated dressing room, but the reality is it was a good performance, another clean sheet and another game we havent lost at St James. Saw that, fucking unbelievable. Stinks of Allardyce & games against Derby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Am I alone in thinking that Ryan Taylor played well tonight btw? Nope, I think his delivery was good and he offers genuine width. His miss was a shocker though. Enough to make the eyes bleed. Oh aye. An absolute sitter. Some footballers really surprise me when they choose the lower corner or they shoot straight at the kepper during 1-on-1 situations. The better players can chip the ball slightly and put it over the keeper's body. A shot on the ground quite often hits an outstretched leg or something as the keeper spreads himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddco Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 It’s testament to where we are that we have a very disappointed and frustrated dressing room, but the reality is it was a good performance, another clean sheet and another game we haven’t lost at St James’. 1st half maybe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Its testament to where we are that we have a very disappointed and frustrated dressing room, but the reality is it was a good performance, another clean sheet and another game we havent lost at St James. Saw that, f***ing unbelievable. Stinks of Allardyce & games against Derby. Hughton will be as pissed off as anyone that we didn't win a match that we could and should have won - he's just playing the spin game played by every manager in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 yep, has to keep it all positive. Reality is if they play like that again, we'll probably win the next game. So he's not far wrong, we've played far far worse and won easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Its testament to where we are that we have a very disappointed and frustrated dressing room, but the reality is it was a good performance, another clean sheet and another game we havent lost at St James. Saw that, f***ing unbelievable. Stinks of Allardyce & games against Derby. Hughton will be as pissed off as anyone that we didn't win a match that we could and should have won - he's just playing the spin game played by every manager in the world. The way he sets us up and the way we play after his half time team talks suggests that we're told to play on the defensive and "not get beat" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 It’s testament to where we are that we have a very disappointed and frustrated dressing room, but the reality is it was a good performance, another clean sheet and another game we haven’t lost at St James’. 1st half maybe 1st 25 minutes maybe :-( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 We could have been trounced and he'd have said much the same, his glass is always half full. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 We could have been trounced and he'd have said much the same, his glass is always half full. Agreed. Every time we're crap he just says the division is tough. You always hear Ferguson saying stuff like 'we weren't good enough' but never with Hughton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 He doesn't want to talk bad about his mates though does he. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 We could have been trounced and he'd have said much the same, his glass is always half full. Agreed. Every time we're crap he just says the division is tough. You always hear Ferguson saying stuff like 'we weren't good enough' but never with Hughton. Do we? I can't remember the last post-match interview I saw with Ferguson after Man U lost. He's always got an excuse or a go at the ref for not enough added time/bad decision and sends his assistant to the interview. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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