Skirge Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Anyone think Andy Carroll would have scored 20 goals in half a season if he had been at Leeds? I can think of a few who might think so but I don't know if your post is tempting people to name these dimwits or for them to own up themselves... They call come out from behind thier sofa's and own up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Carroll would probably get 10 goals in a full season in League one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Doesn't look like a particularly great footballer. Wasn't impressed with his movement or his touch. But he's obviously an excellent finisher and that will do us just fine. That said, it's going to be interesting putting him and Shola upfront if he signs. We'd have to abandon long ball near entirely if it was ever going to work cos neither are target men. If we stuck with long ball then it'd be a serious waste of money; we'd be wasting obvious talent there. First I've seen of him today. I have heard a few people saying he lacks clever running off the ball but I thought his runs were pretty dangerous today and he was involved in every attack. Played the offside trap well to get through one on one, decent effort just flashed wide of the post. Earned the free-kick which hit the bar and made a nuisance of himself all game, not to mention the goal. This may not have been Ferguson's first XI but it was a strong team and it was at Old Trafford. I won't judge him off one game but it takes a confident striker to go to Old Trafford and put in that kind of performance. I don't believe we should be stockpiling average strikers but if there's an opportunity to get a bargain, a player who can score goals for us in the Championship, help push for promotion and gel with the team, it'll benefit him and us if we get promotion. At worse he may turn out to be backup at Premiership level but it won't have been a massive amount wasted. The thing about this signing which I would quite like is it is unlike Newcastle to buy an in-form English player from the lower leagues. Admittedly he is 26 but Bellamy, Carrick and plenty others have gone from the lower leagues to excel at a higher level. That was the bit which made my mind up. His touch is hit and miss but he controlled and turned with the ball beautifully for that effort - showed a real predatory instinct which is missing from all our other strikers. He knows where the goal is, that's for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 The thing about this signing which I would quite like is it is unlike Newcastle to buy an in-form English player from the lower leagues. Admittedly he is 26 but Bellamy, Carrick and plenty others have gone from the lower leagues to excel at a higher level. I disagree. From my experience (purely guts, not done the statistics) - top Championship strikers have much higher failure rate than top Championship defenders in the Premiership. A lower league striker would only succeed in the Premiership if he has an outstanding attribute. I don't see how Jermain Beckford is outstanding in any particular attribute (apart from scoring), it is simply too much an ask/expectation for him to score regularly in Premiership in my opinion. We need Beckford to replace Harewood, but I am worried that we would spend too much on him for essentially half season of productive work. All fair points but I would assume his outstanding attribute is finishing. I don't know anything about him other than today's game and what others have said, but if he is a fox in the box he might well give us something vital that we don't have already - and a key ingredient for staying up if he's good enough. Following on with your logic, we know Newcastle will not afford (or attract?) a striker who has scored that many at the top level. We can either take a punt on someone who has done it in the lower leagues with a point to prove, or take someone who has not quite done it at a higher level. OR go for a foreigner who ticks one of those boxes. Personally, I'd rather have the form player, if our past signings are anything to go by. Bellamy was an inspired signing and when you look at our other attempts, maybe we are better off going down that road, espescially when you look at the potential fees involved. i'd say movement is beckford's outstanding quality. he has pace and he knows how to use it properly. he is capable of pulling off excellent finishes, but from the few games ive seen he usually needs a couple of chances to put one away. he'll also need to work on his first touch as it is not premiership quality atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_F Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Terrible ITKing here but I spoke to Gordon McQueen in the pub today and he said Beckford nailed on for us, likewise Boyd for Middlesbrough. He's just left as Boro's chief scout so he probably knows his onions. Fuck me surely Boyd can do better than the smogs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dover Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 The thing about this signing which I would quite like is it is unlike Newcastle to buy an in-form English player from the lower leagues. Admittedly he is 26 but Bellamy, Carrick and plenty others have gone from the lower leagues to excel at a higher level. I disagree. From my experience (purely guts, not done the statistics) - top Championship strikers have much higher failure rate than top Championship defenders in the Premiership. A lower league striker would only succeed in the Premiership if he has an outstanding attribute. I don't see how Jermain Beckford is outstanding in any particular attribute (apart from scoring), it is simply too much an ask/expectation for him to score regularly in Premiership in my opinion. We need Beckford to replace Harewood, but I am worried that we would spend too much on him for essentially half season of productive work. Useful for a striker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Terrible ITKing here but I spoke to Gordon McQueen in the pub today and he said Beckford nailed on for us, likewise Boyd for Middlesbrough. He's just left as Boro's chief scout so he probably knows his onions. f*** me surely Boyd can do better than the smogs. Interesting tho' that Strachan was at the Celtic v Rangers game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisd09 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Wasn't Strachan watching MacDonald? I am sure I seen in the Papers that Celtic wants £3 million for him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Useful for a striker Should be obvious that I am not talking about the scoring, when I said top scoring Championship strikers don't typically succeed in the Premiership ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Useful for a striker Should be obvious that I am not talking about the scoring, when I said top scoring Championship strikers don't typically succeed in the Premiership ? normally cos they don't get picked up by the better teams who create the most chances...andy cole done ok as did teddy shez, robbie keane and kevin philips Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 All fair points but I would assume his outstanding attribute is finishing. I don't know anything about him other than today's game and what others have said, but if he is a fox in the box he might well give us something vital that we don't have already - and a key ingredient for staying up if he's good enough. Following on with your logic, we know Newcastle will not afford (or attract?) a striker who has scored that many at the top level. We can either take a punt on someone who has done it in the lower leagues with a point to prove, or take someone who has not quite done it at a higher level. OR go for a foreigner who ticks one of those boxes. Personally, I'd rather have the form player, if our past signings are anything to go by. Bellamy was an inspired signing and when you look at our other attempts, maybe we are better off going down that road, espescially when you look at the potential fees involved. I don't know much about Beckford if I am honest, but if finishin is his best forte then I seriously don't think he will be good in the Premiership. I would personally have preferred an unknown foreigner - he is possibly cheaper, younger, and perhaps has higher potential (provided we scout properly). Bellamy was excellent but he is great at being direct and running at defenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 i'd say movement is beckford's outstanding quality. he has pace and he knows how to use it properly. he is capable of pulling off excellent finishes, but from the few games ive seen he usually needs a couple of chances to put one away. he'll also need to work on his first touch as it is not premiership quality atm. If that's true than it is positive ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 All fair points but I would assume his outstanding attribute is finishing. I don't know anything about him other than today's game and what others have said, but if he is a fox in the box he might well give us something vital that we don't have already - and a key ingredient for staying up if he's good enough. Following on with your logic, we know Newcastle will not afford (or attract?) a striker who has scored that many at the top level. We can either take a punt on someone who has done it in the lower leagues with a point to prove, or take someone who has not quite done it at a higher level. OR go for a foreigner who ticks one of those boxes. Personally, I'd rather have the form player, if our past signings are anything to go by. Bellamy was an inspired signing and when you look at our other attempts, maybe we are better off going down that road, espescially when you look at the potential fees involved. I don't know much about Beckford if I am honest, but if finishin is his best forte then I seriously don't think he will be good in the Premiership. I would personally have preferred an unknown foreigner - he is possibly cheaper, younger, and perhaps has higher potential (provided we scout properly). Bellamy was excellent but he is great at being direct and running at defenders. i liked what i saw of beckford yesterday which is to be honest the first time i've seen him play a game as opposed to highlights etc. the unknown foreigner bit has to be crap bearing in mind frank pingel, andreas andersson etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 normally cos they don't get picked up by the better teams who create the most chances...andy cole done ok as did teddy shez, robbie keane and kevin philips I wouldn't say that Andy Cole was excellent in finishing - his positioning is great however. I wouldn't say that Teddy Sherringham's finishing is outstanding either, but his vision. Robbie Keane's premiership quality is massive and obvious. Kevin Phillips works hard for the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 the unknown foreigner bit has to be crap bearing in mind frank pingel, andreas andersson etc. I don't know about Frank Pingel, but Andreas Andersson wasn't unknown and he wasn't cheap and youngish young ? If you like what you saw about Beckford last night and you are confident about his ability then fair enough. I was just worried that league 1 to premiership step up is too massive - even top championship strikers have high failure rate in Premiership unless they are trully "special". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 the unknown foreigner bit has to be crap bearing in mind frank pingel, andreas andersson etc. I don't know about Frank Pingel, but Andreas Andersson wasn't unknown and he wasn't cheap and youngish young ? If you like what you saw about Beckford last night and you are confident about his ability then fair enough. I was just worried that league 1 to premiership step up is too massive - even top championship strikers have high failure rate in Premiership unless they are trully "special". lots of non special forwards survive in the prem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 lots of non special forwards survive in the prem. Like ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Emile heskey, he even makes it to international level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 lots of non special forwards survive in the prem. Like ? shola did, jerome,harewood for a long while, macfadden,scotland,campbell,ebanks-blake etyc etc etc. thay are players i class at least alongside beckford................he may be better or worse. but don't try and make out the prem is all rooney's and drogbas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley17 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 People like Kevin Davies, yes he's very good at what he does but he's hardly brilliant. Even someone like Zamora, until this purple patch he's in at the moment, he's been shit his whole career in the Premiership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 shola did, jerome,harewood for a long while, macfadden,scotland,campbell,ebanks-blake etyc etc etc. thay are players i class at least alongside beckford................he may be better or worse. but don't try and make out the prem is all rooney's and drogbas. Well I suppose they did indeed survive in the Premiership. But they are not the level we are aiming at. And I think they survive in the Premierhsip quite due to there are no viable alternatives for their clubs. Shola (Free) has height and strength - attributes which English managers like despite Shola not being skillful in utilising them. Jerome (3M) is a typical example of top Championship striker failing in the Premiership. He is young (improvement and resale value) however, and as a long term investment he is worth it. Harewood (500k) was good for one season only (West Ham). Macfadden (5M) is a costly failure. And he isn't even a top Championship striker. Scotland (2M) is so far a failure in the Premiership. Campbell (3.5M) is so far a failure. However he is still young. Ebanks-blake (1.5M) was signed for full season promotion push. So he was very much worth the money. Although he has so far failed to tear Premierhsip apart, he works hard for the team to stretch the opposition. As I said we need someone to replace Harewood. Beckford seems to be a suitable candidate. However I am wary that we may pay over the odds for him for essentially half a season works. I have never watched Beckford play so I don't know how he play. But judging from people's general descriptions here - lazy, finisher, positioning - I don't think he will be a useful member in the Premiership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Emile heskey, he even makes it to international level. Heskey has strength. And he is a selfless hardworker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 People like Kevin Davies, yes he's very good at what he does but he's hardly brilliant. Even someone like Zamora, until this purple patch he's in at the moment, he's been s*** his whole career in the Premiership. BOth Davies and Zamora are selfless hardworker, team player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I'm quite happy to stick with Shola, Ranger, Carrol and Lovenkrads if it means we can get two centre midfielder who can pass on the deck and create some movement in our midfield area. IF we buy another striker, we probably won't get a midfielder or get one which is as crap as Butt/Smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Smith is twice the player Butt is. With the exception of Shola I don't have any real faith in those strikers to score, we easily need another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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