Portsmouth FC in yet more trouble - administration again?

[Guest Brazilianbob]

Pompey should not be allowed to go to the wall and they should be allowed to sell their players in order to avoid that scenario.  I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone could object to this.  Its not as if they will be allowed to bring players in. 

[nobby_solano]

if we didn't have stupid bastard transfer windows they'd be able to sell players, and we'd have not had (as many and as much) daft inflated transfer fees over the last few seasons

[Thespence]

According to the papers this morning they can invoke a 'crisis club' claus to allow them to sell outside the transfer window but it will cost them a 9 point reduction.

 

They should tell them to f*** off tbh.  The transfer window has only just closed.  Whatever problems they have servicing their debts now will have existed 3 weeks ago when the window was still open.

 

nah, that would be illegal, as any business should be allowed to sell their asset's to keep themselves afloat tbh

 

How would it be illegal?  The current transfer window gig was agreed after Bosman & was signed up by FIFA, UEFA & EU.

 

no the bosman ruling happned 15 years ago, the transfer window is only 8 years old.

because portsmouth are a business, businesses are allowed to sell their asset's if their is a requirement to do so

 

Oh dear, I did say "after Bosman" because the transfer window is widely accepted by most as being something that happened because of the Bosman case because that is when  the EU started looking at the LEGALITY of the transfer system, which resulted in FIFA, UEFA & the EU legally agreeing to this system.

 

In 2000, the European Commission announced that it was taking action against the football authorities because the current international transfer system breaches the right to freedom of movement between E.U. states under the Treaty of Amsterdam, even for players who are still under contract. They argued that footballers who wished to unilaterally break their contract of employment should be able to leave with a term of notice, as employees in other sectors can do, with only a relatively small amount of compensation being paid in return.

 

This action led to a compromise being reached between the football authorities and the Commission which was ratified by FIFA's executive in summer 2001. The new transfer regulations apply to every player who signed a contract after 1st September 2001 and is involved in an international transfer and state that unless all parties agree to the payment of a fee, no transfer fee is payable. The regulations are as follows (and are reproduced in more detail on www.FIFA.com):

1: Training Compensation for Players under 23 to replace transfer fees

2: Protection of contracts for the first 2-3 years by - a sporting sanction of a four month suspension for a player who unilaterally breaches their contract within this period - compensation reflecting the wages and period left on the contract of the player in accordance with national law

3: Movement for players only in 2 transfer "windows" a season

4: The creation of an independent and objective disciplinary and arbitration system to deal with contractual disputes and compensation.

 

[Guest neesy111]

According to the papers this morning they can invoke a 'crisis club' claus to allow them to sell outside the transfer window but it will cost them a 9 point reduction.

 

They should tell them to f*** off tbh.  The transfer window has only just closed.  Whatever problems they have servicing their debts now will have existed 3 weeks ago when the window was still open.

 

nah, that would be illegal, as any business should be allowed to sell their asset's to keep themselves afloat tbh

 

How would it be illegal?  The current transfer window gig was agreed after Bosman & was signed up by FIFA, UEFA & EU.

 

no the bosman ruling happned 15 years ago, the transfer window is only 8 years old.

because portsmouth are a business, businesses are allowed to sell their asset's if their is a requirement to do so

 

Oh dear, I did say "after Bosman" because the transfer window is widely accepted by most as being something that happened because of the Bosman case because that is when  the EU started looking at the LEGALITY of the transfer system, which resulted in FIFA, UEFA & the EU legally agreeing to this system.

 

In 2000, the European Commission announced that it was taking action against the football authorities because the current international transfer system breaches the right to freedom of movement between E.U. states under the Treaty of Amsterdam, even for players who are still under contract. They argued that footballers who wished to unilaterally break their contract of employment should be able to leave with a term of notice, as employees in other sectors can do, with only a relatively small amount of compensation being paid in return.

 

This action led to a compromise being reached between the football authorities and the Commission which was ratified by FIFA's executive in summer 2001. The new transfer regulations apply to every player who signed a contract after 1st September 2001 and is involved in an international transfer and state that unless all parties agree to the payment of a fee, no transfer fee is payable. The regulations are as follows (and are reproduced in more detail on www.FIFA.com):

1: Training Compensation for Players under 23 to replace transfer fees

2: Protection of contracts for the first 2-3 years by - a sporting sanction of a four month suspension for a player who unilaterally breaches their contract within this period - compensation reflecting the wages and period left on the contract of the player in accordance with national law

3: Movement for players only in 2 transfer "windows" a season

4: The creation of an independent and objective disciplinary and arbitration system to deal with contractual disputes and compensation.

 

 

no you said they happened at the sametime, they didn't

[Colos Short and Curlies]

According to the papers this morning they can invoke a 'crisis club' claus to allow them to sell outside the transfer window but it will cost them a 9 point reduction.

 

They should tell them to f*** off tbh.  The transfer window has only just closed.  Whatever problems they have servicing their debts now will have existed 3 weeks ago when the window was still open.

 

nah, that would be illegal, as any business should be allowed to sell their asset's to keep themselves afloat tbh

 

How would it be illegal?  The current transfer window gig was agreed after Bosman & was signed up by FIFA, UEFA & EU.

 

no the bosman ruling happned 15 years ago, the transfer window is only 8 years old.

because portsmouth are a business, businesses are allowed to sell their asset's if their is a requirement to do so

 

Oh dear, I did say "after Bosman" because the transfer window is widely accepted by most as being something that happened because of the Bosman case because that is when  the EU started looking at the LEGALITY of the transfer system, which resulted in FIFA, UEFA & the EU legally agreeing to this system.

 

In 2000, the European Commission announced that it was taking action against the football authorities because the current international transfer system breaches the right to freedom of movement between E.U. states under the Treaty of Amsterdam, even for players who are still under contract. They argued that footballers who wished to unilaterally break their contract of employment should be able to leave with a term of notice, as employees in other sectors can do, with only a relatively small amount of compensation being paid in return.

 

This action led to a compromise being reached between the football authorities and the Commission which was ratified by FIFA's executive in summer 2001. The new transfer regulations apply to every player who signed a contract after 1st September 2001 and is involved in an international transfer and state that unless all parties agree to the payment of a fee, no transfer fee is payable. The regulations are as follows (and are reproduced in more detail on www.FIFA.com):

1: Training Compensation for Players under 23 to replace transfer fees

2: Protection of contracts for the first 2-3 years by - a sporting sanction of a four month suspension for a player who unilaterally breaches their contract within this period - compensation reflecting the wages and period left on the contract of the player in accordance with national law

3: Movement for players only in 2 transfer "windows" a season

4: The creation of an independent and objective disciplinary and arbitration system to deal with contractual disputes and compensation.

 

 

no you said they happened at the sametime, they didn't

 

He quite clearly says after

[ikri]

I'm pretty sure the courts are less concerned about their ability to pay their outstanding tax debts now, they're more concerned that the club is trading insolvent.

 

If the court believes that their assets are less than their liabilities then simply selling some of those assets (at a knock down price) isn't going to help them at all, in fact it'll hurt them more than if they kept the players. 

 

I don't believe that selling the players is anything more than an attempt by the current owner to recoup as much money as possible before winding up the club (or potentially they need the cash to pay wages this month in which case they're utterly fucked).

 

They could have avoided all of this by going into administration before Christmas, sure they'd have lost 9 points and most of their players but since that's the best that's going to happen to them anyway what have they achieved by not doing so?

[Guest neesy111]

According to the papers this morning they can invoke a 'crisis club' claus to allow them to sell outside the transfer window but it will cost them a 9 point reduction.

 

They should tell them to f*** off tbh.  The transfer window has only just closed.  Whatever problems they have servicing their debts now will have existed 3 weeks ago when the window was still open.

 

nah, that would be illegal, as any business should be allowed to sell their asset's to keep themselves afloat tbh

 

How would it be illegal?  The current transfer window gig was agreed after Bosman & was signed up by FIFA, UEFA & EU.

 

no the bosman ruling happned 15 years ago, the transfer window is only 8 years old.

because portsmouth are a business, businesses are allowed to sell their asset's if their is a requirement to do so

 

Oh dear, I did say "after Bosman" because the transfer window is widely accepted by most as being something that happened because of the Bosman case because that is when  the EU started looking at the LEGALITY of the transfer system, which resulted in FIFA, UEFA & the EU legally agreeing to this system.

 

In 2000, the European Commission announced that it was taking action against the football authorities because the current international transfer system breaches the right to freedom of movement between E.U. states under the Treaty of Amsterdam, even for players who are still under contract. They argued that footballers who wished to unilaterally break their contract of employment should be able to leave with a term of notice, as employees in other sectors can do, with only a relatively small amount of compensation being paid in return.

 

This action led to a compromise being reached between the football authorities and the Commission which was ratified by FIFA's executive in summer 2001. The new transfer regulations apply to every player who signed a contract after 1st September 2001 and is involved in an international transfer and state that unless all parties agree to the payment of a fee, no transfer fee is payable. The regulations are as follows (and are reproduced in more detail on www.FIFA.com):

1: Training Compensation for Players under 23 to replace transfer fees

2: Protection of contracts for the first 2-3 years by - a sporting sanction of a four month suspension for a player who unilaterally breaches their contract within this period - compensation reflecting the wages and period left on the contract of the player in accordance with national law

3: Movement for players only in 2 transfer "windows" a season

4: The creation of an independent and objective disciplinary and arbitration system to deal with contractual disputes and compensation.

 

 

no you said they happened at the sametime, they didn't

 

He quite clearly says after

 

yes he did but he said after bosman and EU, the bosman ruling and the transfer window being changed we're two seperate events with a timespan of 7 years, so they clearly didn't happen at the sametime

[Nobody]

Pompey should not be allowed to go to the wall and they should be allowed to sell their players in order to avoid that scenario. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone could object to this. Its not as if they will be allowed to bring players in.

It's not as if they didn't know about this in January, they should have sold their assets back then when they had the chance. It's not even a month since the window closed, and this thread was made in late December, they had plenty of time to sell their assets and just like anyone else they should be forced to act within the laws of the game.

[Guest neesy111]

I'm pretty sure the courts are less concerned about their ability to pay their outstanding tax debts now, they're more concerned that the club is trading insolvent.

 

If the court believes that their assets are less than their liabilities then simply selling some of those assets (at a knock down price) isn't going to help them at all, in fact it'll hurt them more than if they kept the players. 

 

I don't believe that selling the players is anything more than an attempt by the current owner to recoup as much money as possible before winding up the club (or potentially they need the cash to pay wages this month in which case they're utterly fucked).

 

They could have avoided all of this by going into administration before Christmas, sure they'd have lost 9 points and most of their players but since that's the best that's going to happen to them anyway what have they achieved by not doing so?

 

selling their asset's now is better, because unlike real asset's as soon as the club goes into liquidation they will be free transfers, selling them now will allow the club to pay their due debts

[Guest neesy111]

Pompey should not be allowed to go to the wall and they should be allowed to sell their players in order to avoid that scenario.  I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone could object to this.  Its not as if they will be allowed to bring players in. 

It's not as if they didn't know about this in January, they should have sold their assets back then when they had the chance. It's not even a month since the window closed, and this thread was made in late December, they had plenty of time to sell their assets and just like anyone else they should be forced to act within the laws of the game.

 

this is the problem with the stupid window

 

businesses can see that things are going to pan years in advance (i.e. General Motors), but they don't sell their asset's as they believe they can turn it around, and then once the shit does hit them, then they do sell their assets, this is why pompey should be allowed to sell their players, also it give's the players security as well

[Nobody]

Pompey should not be allowed to go to the wall and they should be allowed to sell their players in order to avoid that scenario.  I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone could object to this.  Its not as if they will be allowed to bring players in. 

It's not as if they didn't know about this in January, they should have sold their assets back then when they had the chance. It's not even a month since the window closed, and this thread was made in late December, they had plenty of time to sell their assets and just like anyone else they should be forced to act within the laws of the game.

 

this is the problem with the stupid window

 

businesses can see that things are going to pan years in advance (i.e. General Motors), but they don't sell their asset's as they believe they can turn it around, and then once the shit does hit them, then they do sell their assets, this is why pompey should be allowed to sell their players, also it give's the players security as well

No, they shouldn't. Fair enough if something unexpected happened in the last week, then I could see that there might a reason for an exception, but they've known about this for months. As long as the transfer ruling is there, and it is, Pompey should not get any special treatment to sell their players, in fairness to all other teams.

[NG32]

My worry would be, if Pompy are allowed to flog playes outside the transfer window would this then not give clubs yet another safety net to hide behind??

[Liam Liam Liam O]

According to the papers this morning they can invoke a 'crisis club' claus to allow them to sell outside the transfer window but it will cost them a 9 point reduction.

 

They should tell them to fuck off tbh.  The transfer window has only just closed.  Whatever problems they have servicing their debts now will have existed 3 weeks ago when the window was still open.

 

nah, that would be illegal, as any business should be allowed to sell their asset's to keep themselves afloat tbh

 

It's not illegal like, but there you go.

[Teasy]

My worry would be, if Pompy are allowed to flog playes outside the transfer window would this then not give clubs yet another safety net to hide behind??

 

They're basically guarenteeing relegation to stand a chance of staying in existence, its a tade off not a safety net.

[NG32]

My worry would be, if Pompy are allowed to flog playes outside the transfer window would this then not give clubs yet another safety net to hide behind??

 

They're basically guarenteeing relegation to stand a chance of staying in existence, its a tade off not a safety net.

 

In a sense that clubs will look back at this and think "we'll do what pompy did and flog our playes outside the transfer window" and cry foul if they aren't allowed.  A some point someone has to drawer a line under it and say rules are rules.  You mismanaged the club.

[Teasy]

My worry would be, if Pompy are allowed to flog playes outside the transfer window would this then not give clubs yet another safety net to hide behind??

 

They're basically guarenteeing relegation to stand a chance of staying in existence, its a tade off not a safety net.

 

In a sense that clubs will look back at this and think "we'll do what pompy did and flog our playes outside the transfer window" and cry foul if they aren't allowed.  A some point someone has to drawer a line under it and say rules are rules.  You mismanaged the club.

 

But its been done before, its not like this is something entirely new.

 

I see no problem with it really.  I think having to sell all your best players for half their values and take a points deduction on top which will guarentee relegation is punishment enough for mismanaging the club, and I don't think anyone really wants their fans to entirely lose their club, which they will if they can't sell players.  What other solution is their now?

[TooonDoom]

I think they should be allowed to sell their players.  I also think any other club should not be allowed to register new players outside of the transfer window (It just seems unfair to the clubs who don't sign the extra players who end up getting relegated or failing to win something due to it).  It's therefore worthless to be able to sell the players as other clubs will not be interested in them if they can't play them!

[Teasy]

I think they should be allowed to sell their players.  I also think any other club should not be allowed to register new players outside of the transfer window (It just seems unfair to the clubs who don't sign the extra players who end up getting relegated or failing to win something due to it).  It's therefore worthless to be able to sell the players as other clubs will not be interested in them if they can't play them!

 

Well they can already do that without asking the Premier League or FA, what you're saying in essense is that you don't believe they should be able to sell their players.  So then they go out of business entirely.  The likes of Ipswich have been allowed to sell players outside the transfer window due to financial problems in the past, so why not Portsmouth?

[Guest toonlass]

Pompey have to seriously consider taking the points reduction. If it stops them going out of existance completely then it would be worth it tbh. I would absolutely hate us to have to be in their position.

[TooonDoom]

I think they should be allowed to sell their players.  I also think any other club should not be allowed to register new players outside of the transfer window (It just seems unfair to the clubs who don't sign the extra players who end up getting relegated or failing to win something due to it).  It's therefore worthless to be able to sell the players as other clubs will not be interested in them if they can't play them!

 

Well they can already do that without asking the Premier League or FA, what you're saying in essense is that you don't believe they should be able to sell their players.  So then they go out og business entirely.  Why should they be treated any differently to the likes of Ipswich who were allowed to sell players outside the transfer window in order to stop them going out of business?

 

I don't think Ipswich should have been able to do it either.  The rules are in place and I think they should be stuck to.  The consequence of those rules, in this case, is extremely harsh but I think the integrity of the league is more important than one team.  When West Ham survived relegation in place of Sheffield United it left a very bitter taste in the mouth.  If the rules being broken lead to even a sniff of one team getting relegated in place of another or the title goes to a different place or even a European place being altered I think that stinks.

 

I also doubt they will actually fail to exist any more.  They have a large fan base.  They may have to start from the bottom again but they will still exist in one form or another IMO.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Their fan base isn't that large.

 

Like you say though, it's more complex than just saving Pompey. There would likely be a backlash from other clubs affected by teams playing against them with ex-Pompey players who have been registered outside the window.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Premier League say no to this.

[geordie2000]

In theory Portsmouth are still allowed to buy and sell players, they just can't be registered outside of a transfer window.They could try and do a similar deal to Man U/Fulham have with smalling.

 

We were only allowed to register Ambrose because Ipswich were in Administration, Pompey for some reason don't want to go into Administration.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I really can't see any way Pomp can avoid administration... the option is there for situations like this where they can't service their debts and the cash-flow is zero.

[Guest neesy111]

I really can't see any way Pomp can avoid administration... the option is there for situations like this where they can't service their debts and the cash-flow is zero.

 

they are gonna get liquidated before they even go into admin, how are they gonna find the 14M they owe the taxman in 1 week

[jdckelly]

heres a better question, who the hell will buy these players if they are allowed to sell them, they had a chance to sell last month and there wasnt much interest then now was there?